Advice??!!??

[Betheny]

Alright. So here's the situation.

This fellow I may or may not be 'seeing' seems to be in some serious trouble. He quit his job earlier this week, because he got angry and walked out. I know he's got some problems -- I find out after he and I are 'dating' that he's on antidepressants and has tried to kill himself in the past. It's something he admits freely to me. So... no big deal. I've dealt with people with baggage before, hell I have plenty of it myself.

Out of the blue, he calls me tonight, at 2 AM and starts the conversation off with "Why didn't you tell me you quit?" (Yeah, I quit my job today, but that's another story for another time.). I say, "Well, gee, every time I call you you say 'I'm tired I'm going to bed' or some lame ass excuse like that, so I figured I'd wait til YOU call ME."

He goes on to say that he embarassed himself trying to call me at work. Okay, no big deal, he calls me at home...

He is apparently drunk, and in a very depressed state. I ask him if he wants to get together and talk, and he says no. Says, he's afraid of saying something that's going to piss me off and getting into a fight with me.

First off, I've never fought with this guy. We get along famously. Second off, when someone's in dire emotional straights, I am nowhere near shallow enough to do something like get angry at what they say.

I press the issue, saying I will come get him since he professes that he is too drunk to drive over to my house. His roommate (who sleeps on the couch) prevents me from going over there... I don't want to have such deep discussions or whatever when he has to get up at 6:00 AM for school the next day. That would be rude.

He says no, again says that he doesn't want to say or do something he's going to regret. Says he's already done something he regrets, and we get into a ten minute long one-sided conversation where I ask him wtf is going on. He basically tells me that his life sucks and he's wondering if he should just end it.

So I tell him that I've been in situations where I felt like that before, but I didn't think it was the right thing to do. I tell him that I care about him, and if he did something like kill himself I'd miss him a whole hell of a lot.

At this point, I have no idea what happens. He basically says he'll call me tomorrow, he's going to drive down to his parent's house (30 miles away, ok? and he's drunk, but can't drive to see ME) and stay down there for the night. He misses his dog Cruiser, and thinks maybe he'll feel better afterward.

We hang up, I call him after 10 minutes to ask him if he wants a ride since he's drunk. In the meanwhile, I'm sorting out wtf I ought to do with a friend of mine. Meanwhile, Ben's in the car driving. Drunk.

So he gets there fine, calls me, says he'll call me tomorrow, the end.

I guess the real question is... what the fuck should I do? I already have enough problems in my life (don't we all) but can I really subject myself to this kind of stuff? I care about the guy, sure, but things are 'new' and it isn't like I'm in love with him or anything like that. But he's a good person, and I value his friendship, and his life.

I don't know what he wants from me. My best guess is, he was talking to me because he had no one else to talk to. But there's questions as to whether or not he and I are right for each other, and I just don't know if he has interest in a way other than 'Hi, come over and drink and sleep with me'.

...ungh. I can't believe I'm actually going to post this.

I guess I just have to rant and get it out, and it isn't like anyone gives me constructive options on my livejournal, so this would be the next best place to lodge such an inquiry.

[HarmNone]

Ouch! Sounds like this guy has some really serious problems, depression being one of them.

First thing I would have to ask is: Is he getting treatment for his depression, other than medication (therapy, for instance)? Secondly, does he take his medications regularly? Thirdly, what in the hell is he doing drinking when he suffers from depression and is on antidepressants? Alcohol IS a depressant, and does not react well with these medications.

As to what you should do, nobody can tell you that, hon. I will say, however, that those who are trying to solve problems in their own lives (and already have a pretty full plate) do not usually do well in relationships with others who are having trouble coping. The two situations tend to compound one another rather than help. That said, all the rationality in the world cannot necessarily dispell emotions. If you really care about this guy, it is going to be damned difficult for you to just cut him loose when he is suffering.

I would say try to talk it out with him when he is sober. If it were me, I would make it clear that if he is going to get drunk and wallow in his depression, I was not interested in wallowing in it with him. To lend support is one thing; to aid and abet foolish behavior is quite another.

I am not sure how much help I have offered here, as I do not know the whole story on your situation. I surely empathize with what you are going through, though. :(

HarmNone

[Edited on 1-16-2004 by HarmNone]

[Betheny]

No, I'm pretty sure he isn't seeing a counselor or anything like that. I do know that it was bad enough he was on state health care when he didn't have health care through work.

As for the drinking, I find myself wondering that too. Alcoholism runs in his family and he's a self-proclaimed alcoholic. I'd say 95% of his friends drink socially, and that seems to be the only way he knows how to socialize. It's like smoking... your friends smoke, you smoke. I know that deal.

But honestly, I don't think I have enough leverage to talk to him about issues like that.

I appreciate the input. Really, I do. I just don't have much experience in dealing with this kind of thing, and I sure as hell don't want to go into something like this totally blind. It's tough to make a call, because you guys don't know him -- but I myself don't know him all that well.

[Betheny]

I guess the other thing that pisses me off about the situation is, when i called him and he was in his car drunk, I told him to pull over and i'd come get him. He said something to the effect of "Beth, if you trust me or have any faith in me..."

Wtf is up with that? Making me feel bad for wanting to save his ass?

[Myshel]

Beth this may sound harse but I have to say it.. Run, run far away from this guy. Abusers are great at manipulations. If this is the way it is when it is new, think how it will be when he really gets into your life. Can you save him from himself? You know we see the flashes of who they could be when they are sober and thats the part we want to save, to know, but thats not the person they are when they are abusing. Don't become a satellite to his diease.

[Czeska]

I think Harmnone is right in saying the alcohol definitely compounds the other problems. If you can talk with him sober, why not come out and say listen, Ben. I care about you. I'd love to help you. But if you aren't willing to take some steps, I won't be able to. What can I do to help? And see what he responds with.
If there's one thing I've learned in my years, it's that games get you nowhere, and guessing what another person is thinking gets you nowhere but into deeper crap.
Best of luck to you.

[Betheny]

Yeah, there's no question as to this thing is ending the next time I talk to him. I think the easiest thing for me to do is write him a letter so I can get it all out and not have anything come out wrong.

I think the best thing for me to do is just cut all ties and leave it at that. I myself am climbing the ladder out of my pit of hell, and I'm barely strong enough to do that. There's no way I can carry the weight of another person on my back.

I'm not going to be in the area for long, that may be one of the things that set him off. I've gone out with this guy three times in the past two weeks, so... I guess I figured it wasn't a big deal if I left. I told him last night I was going to be going, and he didn't seem to give a shit. Maybe my assumption was wrong.

[Valiren]

Not sure how valuable my advice would be since my life is far from perfect as well but I'd like to bring to the table a few things for you to consider.

You definitely have the option of backing out and let him figure things out on his own.

You say you value his friendship, but to what extent are you willing to get involved with his issues? Sounds like he has a lot of things bothering him if he's taking antidepressants. Alcohol will probably make things worse on top of that.

Get him sober. Then, I'd say talk with him as much as you can and find out whats making him so upset, what he's tried to fix his situation, and what he plans on doing here on out.

Once you hear his side of the story, think about how to point out things or thought processes that seem foolish to you or give him advice on how to improve his situation and how he can avoid future pitfalls. Or, if you even want to get involved that deeply. Maybe he just needed someone to listen to his problems.

I hate to bring this up, but watch out for sucidal tendencies. If things get worse, tell him to seek help or seek help for him.


On the romantic level, I would definitely say to put that on the side.

Its true finding a significant other is hard and won't come knocking at your door everyday, but a relationship seems to work best when both parties are willing to make concessions for each other and when each party has something to offer the other party values and treasures.

At this point, I'd say your friend isn't capable of considering another's emotions and needs while trying to juggle his own. So putting that aspect of your relationship aside until he can reasonably control his pain might save you the trouble of investing your emotions in something that might backfire and leave you hurt and vunerable.

Not sure what else I can add...:?:

[Myshel]

oh yea and the next time you get a 2 am drunk phone call threatening sucide, hang up and call 911. That ended the drunk phone calls I used to get.

[Wezas]

Did Klaive ever make it to his parents house?

</really nothing to add to the conversation>

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Wezas
Did Klaive ever make it to his parents house?

</really nothing to add to the conversation>

He isn't Klaive.

He's far better looking than Klaive.

And I would assume, hung much, much more impressively.

[StrayRogue]

Don't let him drink and drive. Not for his own sake, but for the sake of innocents on the street, atleast.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Don't let him drink and drive. Not for his own sake, but for the sake of innocents on the street, atleast.

I tried.

[StrayRogue]

Steal his keys. Hell get him arrested.

[Betheny]

He wasn't here, and by the time I was out the door he was gone.

[Miss X]

wow, thats a really tough situation to be in hon. To be honest, I don't think I can say much about how to help him, its really difficult to judge how you should go about it. From a personal point of view though, if you are dealing with your own issues its really hard to deal with someone elses too.

I went through a phase where I felt drawn to people who were unstable, I dunno maybe I thought I could help them or something but really it wasnt helping my own situation. At the end of the day I really think that dealing with your own issues are the most important thing. For me, I found surrounding myself with people who were suffering the same sort of mental health problems as me just made me worse, or made me think I was worse. Your own health is what is important, it doesnt take much to send a recovering depressive back down into the depths of hell.
Do what you can for this guy, but not at the expense of your own sanity. I hope all that made sense, I got a bit emotional while writing it.
Vicx

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Miss X
I went through a phase where I felt drawn to people who were unstable, I dunno maybe I thought I could help them or something but really it wasnt helping my own situation.

So that explains Stray.....

[Miss X]

Bah, I didnt mean him! He isnt unstable in that sort of way! <3 Stray.....

[StrayRogue]

Heh, no it doesn't. Chica is too good for me. And her libido isn't up to my par either ;)

[The Cat In The Hat]

Ok im out of the loop! I thought you were banging Peam!

Cat

[StrayRogue]

She bangs alot of people.

[Mint]

**Don't be a satellite to his disease - Myshel**


Damn I want that in needlepoint on my wall.

I know it sounds selfish but you have to think 'self-preservation' Maimara. You can't rescue everyone and it sounds like he is trying to put that responsibility on your shoulders.

I sympathize with your predicament and your desire to help him but don't become a casualty in his drama.

[peam]

Originally posted by The Cat In The Hat
Ok im out of the loop! I thought you were banging Peam!

Cat

I'm an animal that can't be tamed.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Myshel
Beth this may sound harse but I have to say it.. Run, run far away from this guy. Abusers are great at manipulations. If this is the way it is when it is new, think how it will be when he really gets into your life. Can you save him from himself? You know we see the flashes of who they could be when they are sober and thats the part we want to save, to know, but thats not the person they are when they are abusing. Don't become a satellite to his diease.

I have to agree with Myshell here.

You have two options that are functional.

The first is to get uber involved and help this lost soul, who may not even be ready to accept your help anyway, find his way back to sunlight. Doing this will entail incredible amounts of time and physical ,mental and emotional energy.

I've done it. I've also received the early am phone calls and finally was there the time he actually did take a bunch of pills and wash it down with a nice alcohol cocktail. It was a terrifying exhausting time and I can not tell you how glad I am that it is over now. I'm glad I was there for a friend, but I would not wish what I had to go through on anyone.

The second option as has been said is to wish him well and let him know he is on his own and that when he has his life a little more in order to give you a call.

Yes it sounds selfish, but its also self preservation. Sometimes putting your hand out only gets you dragged down with them.

I empathize and really do wish you the best with however you decide.

[Caramia]

Having been involved with someone who was (is) an alcoholic, who drove drunk, who suffered from depression and took medication, all I can add is this: They manipulate you any way they can, so they can continue their behavior until they either hit bottom or kill themselves.

Don't try to help them alone, either get yourself support through Al-Anon if you're willing to make the investment in this person, or just hang them out to dry. I know that sounds heartless, but when people aren't willing to fully accept that they have problems, need help, and deal with issues, all they're gonna do is tie you up in their sick world and bring you down. You can not force someone to change. They need to want to do so, for themselves. Also, never buy into the myth that you made them do or say anything.

Spend more time getting to know someone better before getting into a relationship. That's the only true way to find people that aren't jerks, and even then, there's no guarantee. But at least you lessen the chances of being used and abused, and I don't just mean physically.

Many people mistakenly just jump in (or on!) before finding out if there is anything more to a person besides an animal lust that needs to be filled.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Caramia
Spend more time getting to know someone better before getting into a relationship. That's the only true way to find people that aren't jerks, and even then, there's no guarantee. But at least you lessen the chances of being used and abused, and I don't just mean physically.


You are my hero. I couldn't agree more.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
She bangs alot of people.

Like you'd know, and like it's your business anyway.

This is someone I've worked with for three months, so your "Beth fucks everyone" trip is out the window, asswipe.

As for 'taming', it isn't like you want to be tamed.