Any number crunchers out there?

[MrTastyHead]

I'm making an elven robes-and-runestaff pure bard who finishes things off with thrown weapons. It will be fantastic. But I am woefully insufficient when it comes to making the best of the little GI quirks and what not.

Str: 40
Con: 40
Dex: 30
Agi: 20
Dis: 90
Aur: 100
Log: 70
Int: 70
Wis: 100
Inf: 100

It has to be something along those lines just for the TPs I need, but I know that minor tweaks can help in the long run. Anybody willing to help me out a bit?

Also, does anybody know at what point it becomes more beneficial, CS-wise, to stop over-training the bard circle and start putting the extra spell ranks into MnE?

I've been wanting to play this guy for over a year, I really appreciate any help you guys can give me.

[thefarmer]

You'll actually have enough tp's to overtrain in spells?

[Stretch]

That sounds like an awful plan unless you have significant post-cap exp. Then it just sounds like a slightly-better-than-awful plan. Those stats are also pretty bad. Did you used to play Nodyre? Because the only build I can think of that's worse is his runestaff rogue build.

You're not going to have any TPs for tertiary magic skills. Runestaff is a bad idea.

You need 430 ASAP. After that, 2x in bard spells until you have 20 + your level in spellsongs.

Kizun (at level 44), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 160 60 60
Brawling...........................| 192 92 92
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24 24
Harness Power......................| 146 46 46
Mental Mana Control................| 102 24 24
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 146 46 46
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30 30

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 48 48

[MrTastyHead]

I'm not Nodyre, I'm an unknown.

I know it won't be an easy mode char, and that's something that I like about it. No training in armor, CM, or dodge makes it really not that bad to fit the skills in.

1x:
AS
MIU
MC:E
MC:M
ML:M

Throw in 1.5x HP and 1.5x+ spells, and you have the magical ranks for runestaff.

Once PF, climb, and swim are taken care of, the rest of the points will go into thrown weapons, perception, and however much disarm traps I can get.

I'll use 1002, 1008, or 1030 as is called for, and use a well placed handaxe or whatever to finish off the maimed survivors. Also, I prefer to find people to hunt with than solo all the time, which makes my solo killing ability not as important to me at this point.

Starting the stats off roughly like that is the only way I've found to get the TPs, which is why I asked you more informed people. I know it's not anywhere near optimal.

[SolitareConfinement]

I'm not Nodyre, I'm an unknown.

I know it won't be an easy mode char, and that's something that I like about it. No training in armor, CM, or dodge makes it really not that bad to fit the skills in.

1x:
AS
MIU
MC:E
MC:M
ML:M

Throw in 1.5x HP and 1.5x+ spells, and you have the magical ranks for runestaff.

Once PF, climb, and swim are taken care of, the rest of the points will go into thrown weapons, perception, and however much disarm traps I can get.

I'll use 1002, 1008, or 1030 as is called for, and use a well placed handaxe or whatever to finish off the maimed survivors. Also, I prefer to find people to hunt with than solo all the time, which makes my solo killing ability not as important to me at this point.

Starting the stats off roughly like that is the only way I've found to get the TPs, which is why I asked you more informed people. I know it's not anywhere near optimal.


i have always HEARD...it was roughly 10-12 magical ranks per level for decent runestaff defenses? could be wrong but if its correct...you're going to have a very difficult time with this build...my guess is unbearable for 99.999%

[thefarmer]

I'm not Nodyre, I'm an unknown.

I know it won't be an easy mode char, and that's something that I like about it. No training in armor, CM, or dodge makes it really not that bad to fit the skills in.

1x:
AS
MIU
MC:E
MC:M
ML:M

Throw in 1.5x HP and 1.5x+ spells, and you have the magical ranks for runestaff.

Once PF, climb, and swim are taken care of, the rest of the points will go into thrown weapons, perception, and however much disarm traps I can get.

I'll use 1002, 1008, or 1030 as is called for, and use a well placed handaxe or whatever to finish off the maimed survivors. Also, I prefer to find people to hunt with than solo all the time, which makes my solo killing ability not as important to me at this point.

Starting the stats off roughly like that is the only way I've found to get the TPs, which is why I asked you more informed people. I know it's not anywhere near optimal.

You'll never be able to finish things off with thrown. You won't be able to muster the AS needed (2x thrown, 2x perception at least 1x CM). You'll essentially be a pure bard (minus brawling DS and a shield)

[MrTastyHead]

If it's not at the very least stunned, I won't be throwing things at it. I don't mean to be rude, but I really didn't post this for people to tell me it'll be hard. I am well aware that it's not an optimized build, and not something that the vast majority of people would have any interest in playing. It is, however, what I want to play.

I just wanted help on the initial stat placement.

[thefarmer]

If it's not at the very least stunned, I won't be throwing things at it. I don't mean to be rude, but I really didn't post this for people to tell me it'll be hard. I am well aware that it's not an optimized build, and not something that the vast majority of people would have any interest in playing. It is, however, what I want to play.

I just wanted help on the initial stat placement.

From your original post, you're asking for more help than just stat placement.


Also, does anybody know at what point it becomes more beneficial, CS-wise, to stop over-training the bard circle and start putting the extra spell ranks into MnE?

I've been wanting to play this guy for over a year, I really appreciate any help you guys can give me.

Nobody's told you not to do it. You asked for any help, and we gave what opinions we thought were important and possibly useful.

If you just want help with math, try googling a stat calculater.

[Soulpieced]

Sounds awful to me.

[Ignot]

i think all of us have gone down some mutant training path at some point or another only to find it frustrating and not enjoyable. I wish you good luck though.

[The Ponzzz]

Man, I was hoping it was the game...

http://evilsushi.com/archive/number_munchers.gif

[Izzy]

As most have said, pure bard is a bitch until you have a significant ability to overtrain bard + have 425 bonuses. Not to mention you don't have any really reliable killing spells until disruption, and thrown weapons are a joke. Plus 40 strength makes everyone cry.

It's a terrible idea, period.

[SolitareConfinement]

basically what we are all trying to tell you man in a nice way........there is a reason bards are considered "semi" ;-)

[MrTastyHead]

I'm trying to fit the character to my concept here. He's a disciple of The Grandfather, chosen because of his special gift of "the Voice," as it was called by the people he group up around, seeming to hear and even communicated with the undertones of the world that nobody else did. Whether it was a true dream or an induced one, he was visited and given a choice - lose the gift, or have it enhanced and be able to bring his scholarly work to unimagined levels, at a price. He chose the gift, and from that time his eyes have steadily gotten worse as his powers have grown.

He goes by sound and feel. Being in a sword fight just doesn't work. He could hear the enemy move, and know where he is and even that he's swinging from top left, but he doesn't have sonar. He has to keep a distance. He could, however, tell where to throw a dagger.

I can see that having at most 10 magical ranks, likely closer to 9, until cap will put the runestaff defense lower than a pure with 14 ranks. Just how much, though?

Is the bard really lacking something that pures have to survive in robes? With some cheap imbeds and song of mirrors for dodge, it seems that a bard could have an easier time of it than a pure. What am I missing?

While I'm thinking about it, does song of mirrors actually give dodge ranks, helpful for cmans and what not, or just the flat DS bonus you would get from said dodge ranks?

Is throwing always THAT bad? I know it's a somewhat broken system, as evidenced by the fact that the first thing a throwing char does is get weapons that are not throwing weapons to throw, but does it never get better unless you can hit an eyeball every time?

I've been thinking about it, and I guess being stubborn isn't going to make the character any more playable if it's really that bad. I hate to think that there really is a character that just can not be worked out somehow in this game, especially since it's the char I want. I could pretty easily see him using a bow instead of runestaff and throwing daggers, it would still fit with the being able to hear but not see thing.

But damnit, I want my character!

[thefarmer]

Bards just can't muster up alot of DS (or really much TD) when compared to a Pure. Dodge ranks do nothing for CMans. Training in CM gives you CMan points.

Thrown isn't that bad, necessarily. It's the fact that you'll require 2x thrown/2x perception to actually hit something with a STR of what, 50? It's a hassle if you don't have a returner or bandoleer.

Now.. I suggest a brawling (for DS)/ shield (or instrument only) build. Leave the runestaff alone. Have an RP prop, sure, but for combat use something else. In fact.. even the brawling could play into your RP.

There's a log of a pure bard (brawling/instrument) kicking ass in the bard folder here. I've also got a shield/pure bard, but no logs, since I don't auto-log him.

Edit: It's not that you can't do your original build. It's the fact that it would be so incredibly hard that the time and effort might be more than the fun you'll get.

[thefarmer]

Oh, and playing a blind character is hard enough. That in itself is hard work to RP it well. Don't make life even more harder with your original idea.

[Methais]

That sounds like an awful plan unless you have significant post-cap exp. Then it just sounds like a slightly-better-than-awful plan. Those stats are also pretty bad. Did you used to play Nodyre? Because the only build I can think of that's worse is his runestaff rogue build.

You're not going to have any TPs for tertiary magic skills. Runestaff is a bad idea.

You need 430 ASAP. After that, 2x in bard spells until you have 20 + your level in spellsongs.

Kizun (at level 44), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 160 60 60
Brawling...........................| 192 92 92
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24 24
Harness Power......................| 146 46 46
Mental Mana Control................| 102 24 24
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 146 46 46
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30 30

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 48 48

How the fuck does a runestaff rogue build even (attempt to) work?

[Drakefang]

I don't see how you can be a pure bard and use thrown weaponry. It's a mental training point sink due to the cost of doubling perception. Same with archery really. Even converting physical to mental it'll be a heavy drain.

DS is a non-issue for me. DS in guarded is like 700 (or more depending). It would be a much bigger issue for a runestaff bard. I don't believe there is a way to pull off this build and it be fun. It'd be a chore and you'd not be too good at being a pure or a hurler (mediocre or high end of average perhaps).

The stat layout is extremely poor, even granting you that you need it that way for training plan. If you are starting at level 0 with this plan you'd have to underhunt by 5-9 levels just to come close to hitting things.

I understand your RP motivations, but I don't think the build is viable or playable. Not unless you fixskill into it around level 50....maybe.

[BigWorm]

How the fuck does a runestaff rogue build even (attempt to) work?

Nodyre focused on making his build as unviable as possible and then bitching about it being hard on the official forums.

[Lumi]

I don't think that's a hard training path, I think it's utterly unviable. But if you want to try it to prove it to yourself, by all means, go for it.

Regarding the initial CS question, I wouldn't overtrain bard spells until you're nearly capped. Pick up the MinE ranks for the spell defense and pumping 430. The CS benefits for overtraining in your native circle are pretty bad (not that outside spell ranks are great, either, but you're getting the 425 bonus, too).

Then again, I like being able to pop all my own boxes, and MinE ranks help with that, so YMMV.

[Lumi]

Oh, and playing a blind character is hard enough. That in itself is hard work to RP it well. Don't make life even more harder with your original idea.

Nothing wrong with playing a blind brawling/pure bard! I hear tell one might even exist already... =P