Is it really necessary to cast open Implosion?

[Asile]

Part of this is to bitch, and part of this is honestly trying to figure out the tactics of a class I've never played before.

Marni was hunting in the Blighted Forest this evening, in the area across the bridge, when all of a sudden she got stunned out of nowhere. I thought it was a critter getting off a REALLY lucky shot at first, since a few came in right at that time, but once she got untunned and made sure she wasn't going to die, I scrolled up and saw this:


The air begins to thin rapidly.
Air is sucked away from you!
Debris strikes you in the leg.
+13 Hits.
Stunned for 2 rounds!

I foolishly thought it was some freak thing, or there was an ogre I'd missed seeing that was making that happen, so got ready to attack some critters. Then this lovely mess happened:


Air begins to rush in violently.
Air slams into a massive black boar.
Blast to the black boar's shield arm.
Its shield arm snaps like a twig!
+15 Hits.

Air slams into you!
Blast annihilates entire skeleton.
Reduced to a gelatinous pulp.

* Marni has been vaporized!
{Spells drop}

* Marni just bit the dust!

While I waited to see if someone would come out for the rescue, I IMed some folks to figure out just what that was, and got confirmation it was from open Implosion. So...if you're a Sorc hunting in the Blighted Forest around 7:15ish ET Thursday evening and just had to cast Implosion without targetting it, for whatever fucked up reason, thanks a fucking lot and I hope you feel even more uber-evil now.

Having got that out of my system...

Would it be possible for people who currently or have played Sorcerers above level 50 (mind you, stuff in the Blighted Forest ranges around 55-65) to explain, with some seriousness, why you would cast Implosion openly in an area that lately has been populated by more than just one or two people at a time? While Marni was on the Dais waiting to get Raised, I talked to a Sorc there who said he also hunted the Blighted Forest, and he said he "occasionally" did open Implosion if he had a swarm...but a friend of mine said that by the level of the Blighted Forest, a Sorc should know better than that.

Should they? Was this person just clueless, or being an ass, or a little of both?

And just how far can that damned spell reach anyway?

And if I could ever confirm who casted, would it be worth taking out a leg and then lecturing them about using a mass area effect spell that can actually KILL another hunter? (I doubt I'd ever have the opportunity for this, but at least 'til I get a good night's sleep, the thought is nice.)

[SolitareConfinement]

little of both if you ask me. and open implode if i remember correctly (been a while) goes 1 deep of the surrounding rooms.

[Methais]

implosion is fine l2p

[Kitsun]

Can't Grimswarm sorcerers cast open implode too? I'm fairly certain I got the crap kicked out of me by one once.

[Kitsun]

implosion is fine l2p

Meh. Open implosion is fine under some conditions. Using it and wiping out other adventurers on a regular basis is a good way to get kicked in the nuts.

[Allereli]

Marni's never cared about anyone before. Best to just avoid any area where she is and save the headache

edit: wait, you're Marni? If I remember right Marni did that all the time to people.

[Asha]

I never use open implosion. Not even when I'm in the shit.
Although I know sometimes I could and save my ass, say when 8 ithzir have me in trouble, I can't be bothered with the whining casualties.

BUT if I'm being MA'd in PVP 435 --> 720 open.
That's my only exception.

[Fallen]

Open implosion has its uses, but you should cast it with the mindset (outside of warcamps and the like) that there is a real possibility that you can and will strike an unintended target. We were given these spells, we should be able to use them. Everyone's definition of "responsible usage" will differ.

[Tolwynn]

Wizards were given death cloud, stun cloud and firestorm, too, at least until everyone bitched enough.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Wizards were given death cloud, stun cloud and firestorm, too, at least until everyone bitched enough.

And meteor swarm.

To this day I am yet to see when meteor swarm is allowed to be used without Andraste pulling up the wizard and threatening to swing the banhammer down on them.

[Fallen]

Had I use of the spell I would cast it often, even in OTF. You just need to know where you are very unlikely to run into someone else. OTF is HUGE. much bigger than what is mapped.

[Trouble]

Had I use of the spell I would cast it often, even in OTF. You just need to know where you are very unlikely to run into someone else. OTF is HUGE. much bigger than what is mapped.

Interesting, you're saying Tsoran's maps of OTF are incomplete?

I can't cast implosion, but I'll use 635 in swarms and many people feel the same about it. I usually try and stay in a less crowded area of OTF when I hunt though.

[Fallen]

I use(d) 709, 435, and 410 often, and rarely hit people in crowded areas. Peer is your friend. Instant fire spells are fairly safe, with quake being the one that usually gets me into trouble, though. Still, just go into the next room and make sure they're alright.

And no, they are not.

[Belnia]

I loved my secret little corner of OTF. Was great.

And yeah, I've used Fury at the gates during an invasion of the Landing and not hit anyone. Of course, Fury is a bit different in that one cast and it's done, no recurring damage like with Implosion.

An open implosion can stun and then you're just a sitting duck until it finishes you off.

[Izzy]

Marni's never cared about anyone before. Best to just avoid any area where she is and save the headache

edit: wait, you're Marni? If I remember right Marni did that all the time to people.

I was confused to. Why the fuck do people try to disassociate themselves so much from their character. Your character isn't another person, don't fucking talk like they are. You control everything they do, thusly, they ARE you (or an extension at the very least). It's weird as shit.

[Stanley Burrell]

Is it really necessary to cast open Implosion?

Yes.

[Khariz]

Marni's never cared about anyone before. Best to just avoid any area where she is and save the headache

edit: wait, you're Marni? If I remember right Marni did that all the time to people.

Marni did what? She's not a sorcerer. Be less vague when you post. I think you may be thinking of someone else. Marni has been one of the most caring people I've met before in the game.

[Asile]

Marni's never cared about anyone before. Best to just avoid any area where she is and save the headache

edit: wait, you're Marni? If I remember right Marni did that all the time to people.

Um... I have a feeling you're thinking of someone else. MY Marni has only been around since September 2005, I'm her only player, and she's only ever been a Warrior, never rerolled or anything.

Edited to add: Aww... thanks for the kind words Khariz. Not that I'm sure who you are <G>

Also, really, thanks for the replies about the use of mass spells. Like I said in my original post, I've never played a Sorc before (or taken a Ranger or Wizard past level 10)...and Marni's my highest level character at 60...so I really don't have a good perspective on these area affect, mass damage spells. (And I've never been in a Grimswarm warcamp, so I've never seen any of that.) I don't really get too upset by Ewave or Call Wind, at least not with Marni, 'cause I've never had those do direct damage (plus, Combat Mobility ftw), and I can see their uses.

I also see the argument that the spells are there, they should be able to be used, but some care should be taken. I think anyway.

What's that somewhat hokey quote about "With great power comes great responsibility"...?

[Khariz]

Um... I have a feeling you're thinking of someone else. MY Marni has only been around since September 2005, I'm her only player, and she's only ever been a Warrior, never rerolled or anything.

I can verify this. I've known you almost the entire time.

[MotleyCrew]

Mass area spell, that can maime and kill other players, have their time and place, but NOT during casual hunting. Thats the mark of a lazy hunter.

[Belnia]

Mass area spell, that can maime and kill other players, have their time and place, but NOT during casual hunting. Thats the mark of a lazy hunter.

Bullshit. If I have 3 or more tritons in a room, I'm casting Fury for sure.

[Numbers]

Wizards were given death cloud, stun cloud and firestorm, too, at least until everyone bitched enough.

Yeah, but wizards used to use the shit out of them, too. Like, seriously, they had death cloud parties. What the fucking fuck? In crowded hunting areas, they'd just sit in one room (usually the spawn room) with a constantly active death cloud.

In terms of open implosion, it should be a last ditch spell for a Sorcerer to get rid of a swarm. And it should usually never be left to run its course. Open implosion is usually only good on the first strike (if there's a lot of crap in the room), and the last strike. But it takes a few rounds to get to that last strike.

[MotleyCrew]

Bullshit. If I have 3 or more tritons in a room, I'm casting Fury for sure.

And why I said they have their time and place. I'm sure you don't walk around casting natures fury at every critter you see.

[ZeP]

Fury and Implosion are pretty different in that fury doesn't affect adjacent rooms. And don't all Nature's Fury cycles happen right at the same time? Implosion keeps going and if the sorcerer gets fucked up somehow they aren't able to close the void. Therefore circumstances under which to cast Fury do not equal circumstances under which to cast Implosion.

[TheWitch]

I haven't used an open void in .... sheesh, years.

Now I'm gonna.

You're in a hunting area, expect violence.

Couple possibilities: The sorcerer who cast that open void was getting their ass handed to them in a swarm and it was a last ditch effort. Because all the collective whining of all the non-sorcerers has us all not using the spell unless it's a last ditch effort. The sorcerer could also have been attempting the 720/417/720/417 room clearing routine, and got gored by a boar after one of the 720's.

Lets just not assume that it was some irresponsible ass of a sorcerer leaving a void hanging open to see how many whiners they could catch, m'kay?

You've all made your point, you don't like boo-boos, need some healies after and WHAAAAAA, lost your massies and you're gonna whine to the GM's about those meany head sorcerers!

Safety in a hunting area. Does no one else see the irony?

Speaking for myself, if I want you dead, I will walk up and kill you in your face.
Ergo, if you die by some wandering open void, it wasn't me.

[CrystalTears]

I don't know, maybe because people have to be careful enough with what they're hunting, that they don't want to worry about some fucktard being careless/reckless with their spells? Just a guess.

[TheWitch]

I don't know, maybe because people have to be careful enough with what they're hunting, that they don't want to worry about some fucktard being careless/reckless with their spells? Just a guess.

And maybe the whining fucktards should accept that shit happens, no matter how careful someone's trying to be? Just a thought.

[Some Rogue]

Jesus Christ, do you have to work at being such a cunt or does it come naturally?

[CrystalTears]

I'm going with the latter.

[TheWitch]

Yes, it does come natural for you doesn't it, CT.

[CrystalTears]

We were talking about you.

There's a difference between someone complaining about getting hurt or dying because of accidental mass spells, or because of someone who just doesn't give a shit about others and does it anyway.

[Stanley Burrell]

Eh, I dunno. Actually, it really is necessary to cast open implosion. Make a thread about it on the officials.

[TheWitch]

We were talking about you.

There's a difference between someone complaining about getting hurt or dying because of accidental mass spells, or because of someone who just doesn't give a shit about others and does it anyway.

Gee, really?

If you interpreted from my post that people should NOT be careful with mass spells, you should learn to read.

The point was, and is, people are (for the most part) careful with AOE spells. To the extent of not using them, except as a last resort.

And in that last resort, sometimes? Shit happens that was not intended. Which doesn't mean the spell should not exist, should never be used, the person that used it is an asshole, they did it on purpose and ran, etc etc etc.

Complaining about death in a hunting ground, no matter how it came, is ridiculous.

[CrystalTears]

If you interpreted from my post that people should NOT be careful with mass spells, you should learn to read.

The point was, and is, people are (for the most part) careful with AOE spells. To the extent of not using them, except as a last resort.
It's interesting that you are quick to call people whiners because they're trying to understand mass spells and why they need to be used, but have no problem assuming that most people are responsible with their spells. It's rather assbackwards to me.

Also, my reaction to your post was due to this:

I haven't used an open void in .... sheesh, years.

Now I'm gonna.

[TheWitch]

It's interesting that you are quick to call people whiners because they're trying to understand mass spells and why they need to be used, but have no problem assuming that most people are responsible with their spells. It's rather assbackwards to me.

Also, my reaction to your post was due to this:

Originally Posted by TheWitch
I haven't used an open void in .... sheesh, years.

Now I'm gonna.



I should have italicized that for you, then? My mistake. I was kidding.

What's assbackwards and totally unrelated to each other is that entire paragraph of yours quoted above.

I didn't quote anyone in specific in post the first since I was responding to the thread in general - not just the OP.

Generally speaking, if someone uses AOE's in a consitently irresponsible way they're going to get the beat down from the GM's. Among casters of mass spells, this is sorta common knowledge - but even the GM's recognize shit happens.

Specific to sorcerers, open implosion is tracked, every single time it's cast, by GM's. Every single imbeddable made with implosion can be tracked. This is pretty common knowledge among players of sorcerers.

This is all true for two reasons: 1. Some jackasses couldn't control themselves and abused the spell, and 2. People whine incessantly that can't cast the spells.

Threads have run for literally days about this on the officials, so no Stanley, I wouldn't bother starting one there but you go right ahead with that.

Threads started by rogues who snipe but refuse to use a disk so people have some vague idea they're there, then complain about getting hit with an AOE......again with the irony. No matter how careful you are, shit can happen.

And what I would say to the OP is, yes, in some cases it is imperative to cast open 720.

[Dothstar's_Seven]

I was hunting with a group once. And a sorcerer was open imploding in other rooms. The accumulated voids around and about the area wiped out my party members.

Upon approaching the Sorcerer, he asked, "Why should I care?"

Upon asking what I was going to do about it after an involved explanation as to why he should care, I stabbed him in the face.

Oh, mass spells. The death and mayhem you incur.

ALSO!

I humbly request hair pulling and fabric ripping for the duration of the CT/Witch exchange.

[Methais]

I loved my secret little corner of OTF. Was great.

And yeah, I've used Fury at the gates during an invasion of the Landing and not hit anyone. Of course, Fury is a bit different in that one cast and it's done, no recurring damage like with Implosion.

An open implosion can stun and then you're just a sitting duck until it finishes you off.

>prep 417
>cast at void

[ZeP]

So whats the policy on open implode? Can you just open implode all day and just say fuck everyone as long as you deal with the consequences?

edit: consequences meaning in-character consequences like people killing you or doing whatever to get revenge

[Some Rogue]

They should just make open implode like meteor storm in that it harms the caster too. Wonder who'd be the "whining fucktards" then...

[CrystalTears]

I should have italicized that for you, then? My mistake. I was kidding.Sure you were.


What's assbackwards and totally unrelated to each other is that entire paragraph of yours quoted above.I may not have explained what I meant very well, so for that I apologize. I suppose I don't understand how someone can complain about people in one breath, then praise them for knowing to do the right thing in the other. Maybe that won't make sense to you either. I can't articulate it. Bad me.

[Methais]

So whats the policy on open implode? Can you just open implode all day and just say fuck everyone as long as you deal with the consequences?

edit: consequences meaning in-character consequences like people killing you or doing whatever to get revenge

Chances are you'll get pulled by Andraste and have to listen to her shit.


They should just make open implode like meteor storm in that it harms the caster too. Wonder who'd be the "whining fucktards" then...

Cast it in town.

EDIT: I'm going to start hunting exclusively with rapid fire meteor swarm.

[AnticorRifling]

Chances are you'll get pulled by Andraste and have to listen to her shit.



Cast it in town.

EDIT: I'm going to start hunting exclusively with rapid fire meteor swarm.
Didn't you do that before?

I know I did once for shits and giggles when I knew I was the only person in the area.

I'm pretty sure they nerfed the XP from casting that and running away didn't they?

[Numbers]

They should just make open implode like meteor storm in that it harms the caster too. Wonder who'd be the "whining fucktards" then...

That would probably make the spell more dangerous to bystanders.

A responsible Sorcerer using an open implosion will generally close it using 417.

If it were like meteor swarm and harmed the caster, you'd have to give open implosion a warm up time, just like meteor swarm has that lets a wizard evacuate the area. That means is a Sorcerer would cast a void, leave the area, and not go back to close the void.

[Some Rogue]

Yeah, you can't cast it and sit on a node and get the xp. I believe you have to be in the same general area.

[TheWitch]

Sure you were.

I may not have explained what I meant very well, so for that I apologize. I suppose I don't understand how someone can complain about people in one breath, then praise them for knowing to do the right thing in the other. Maybe that won't make sense to you either. I can't articulate it. Bad me.


Yea, it doesn't. To my understanding, we're talking about two separate groups of people:

A. People who don't understand AOEs (specifically 720), ie the OP.
and
B. The people that cast the AOEs.

I'm saying to the people in Group A that getting hit by an AOE will in most cases be accidental, because people casting them (Group B) are, for the most part and there are always exceptions, aware of the necessary management of said spells.

As to whether I was kidding or not...think what you want. I have a handful of AOE's available to me, and I rarely use any of them. OTF is a singularily bad place to cast 720, either open or closed, because of item loss and because it's so damn crowded. Aside from the fact, I don't need to use them. But yea, I'm just totally irresponsible.

Whatever.

[Methais]

Didn't you do that before?

I know I did once for shits and giggles when I knew I was the only person in the area.

I'm pretty sure they nerfed the XP from casting that and running away didn't they?

Do what before? I've only used meteor swarm a few times, and whenever I did, I walked a couple roosm over and left a familiar in the room to watch the fireworks.

If you leave the hunting area, then you won't get any exp for stuff that dies in the hunting area you were in.

I remember Annamari cast a meteor swarm outside the dinghy back when it was the pvp spot instead of the boulder, pwned 478320 people when there were maybe 3 involved in the conflict, then Andraste came down, bitched her out in front of everyone and made her replace everyone's deeds. That was one of the only cool things I've ever seen Andraste do.

[diethx]

I never had a huge problem with people casting AoE's so long as they were careful of their surroundings and the other hunters. If your e-wave knocked me down, pull my fucking ass up before you attack. If your implode stuns me, at least TRY to grab my hand (my group was sometimes closed), seal your void, and unstun me.

The only real problem I ever had with AoE's was when some super high level douchebag would be in a MUCH lower level hunting area (read: 40+ levels lower) farming treasure or whatever, and would use them. That's like insta-death. I'm sorry, but when you're 40 levels above the mobs in the area, you don't need to be using AoE's. Fucking douche :D

[g++]

I dont care if people use open implode but leaving an implosion open is just lazy. I mean your not going to drop a 60th level mob with it unless you get a very lucky crit. Your more likely to kill someone one room over then the critters your actually fighting.

[Stanley Burrell]

Heh, it's funny you should say that: They had a thread on the officials (somewhat recently) and one of the GMs literally said that it was O.K./neccessary-if-need-be to cast open implosion :shrug:

[7Seconds]

personally I see it this way. Implosion has been nerfed so much over the years, if you even half pay attention to your encumbrance your likely never to be bothered by an open implosion. Especially from a like level sorcerer. So leave the fluff in your lockers when you hunt and stop walking around with 600lbs of crap in your pockets. Oddly enough this also helps with more then just implosion...

Example:

A while back I decided to test how effective 720 was any more. So I grabbed a bunch of other people waded into krovlin mercs(being that they were 40+ levels below my casting character) and waited till I had about eight-ten of them swarm. Low and behold I failed out of seven attempt to kill all of them with a fully ran implosion. One of the attempts resulted in only two of the mercs going down, due to stun and the finale blow back from the void. A couple of them managed to survive several "tests" before dieing from bloodloss.

So if a krovlin merc can survive a 72nd lvl characters void unscathed your 60th level character shouldn't have a single damn problem ether.

Now if you want to bitch about something fine, just realise that your more likely to go down to stumbleing into an open maelstrom then you are to a stray void if you have even half a clue about what your doing.

Second, I've use OI more then most and rarely have had any issues because of it. I'm to the point any more that if I get swarmed hard I implode on reflexes. I also tend to keep my characters off the beaten path (insert as far the hell away from 99.999% of the GS player base as mechanically possible)

Note: all 720 is any more is a repeating minor elemental wave with possible wounding/death "Flares" based on wether or not you had the steak last night for dinner or the tuna salad.

[Danical]

I have absolutely no idea what the fucking fuckballs you're talking about.

Sentries, being three levels above me fucking insta-kill me every time with implosion.

I'm a burghal gnome and therefore have the best possible racial maneuvering with song of luck (127 spellsongs powering it), superb stats, and purify air.

720 is a total cockgobble spell.

I HOPE ALL THE CREATURES IN THE 110 AREA CAST IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sean of the Thread]

720 in your eye beotch.

[Fallen]

Newsflash: Critter versions of spells differ from those of player cast versions.


I have absolutely no idea what the fucking fuckballs you're talking about.

Sentries, being three levels above me fucking insta-kill me every time with implosion.

I'm a burghal gnome and therefore have the best possible racial maneuvering with song of luck (127 spellsongs powering it), superb stats, and purify air.

720 is a total cockgobble spell.

I HOPE ALL THE CREATURES IN THE 110 AREA CAST IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tea & Strumpets]

Newsflash: Critter versions of spells differ from those of player cast versions.

LOL. I'm sure he'd dodge your focused implosion since the player version is so much weaker.

[Danical]

Let's test it!

[Brielus]

I've gotten bitched out a couple times while doing escorts, soon as they ambush I cast fury to stun em all and once or twice someone's walked into the room as I push the enter key. Hate it for em and I try to recompense em.
But to the few who've chewed my ass about it.. eh.. if ya dont wanna take chances hang up yer armor and sit in tsc with the puffs.

[Ulkov]

....... if ya dont wanna take chances hang up yer armor and sit in tsc with the puffs.

:yeahthat:

Especially as a warrior, BS death happens all the fucking time. Open implosion, focused implosion, bzzt to the neck.. In fact, the older you get, if you're doing it right, BS death is the only way it comes. Suck it up, befriend a cleric, buy more deeds. Take it as it comes.

[Divinity]

I remember the good times when you could drop a heavy box and open implode a near capped character into purty, red ribbons of flesh-walking goodness.

Makes me feel warm and happy inside.

Open imploding is alright by me. Even when hunting.