John McCain's Speech

[ClydeR]

It's good enough so far.

I have only one knit to pick. I thought we said no more green screens.

Cindy McCain's speech, on the other hand, was awful. I simply cannot say enough bad things about it. As I have said many times before, she should not be our First Lady. And why oh why must she mention that her dark skinned daughter is adopted each time she mentions her? Seriously. It would be okay to do it once, since the adoption story is part of her narrative. But there's no reason why she has to do it every time.

[crb]

Yes yes, she sells beer and should be burned at the stake for her crimes.

[Parkbandit]

I was bored to tears throughout this speech and after about a minute switched back to the football game that was pretty much already decided.

[crb]

I thought it was good enough, though obviously the frequent applause kept interrupting his rhythm. McCain isn't a great orator, but the substance of the speech was good. Specific details, plans, issues, etc... and lighter on attacks than Barack's was.

[Parkbandit]

I thought it was good enough, though obviously the frequent applause kept interrupting his rhythm. McCain isn't a great orator, but the substance of the speech was good. Specific details, plans, issues, etc... and lighter on attacks than Barack's was.


What you are saying is that it was devoid of rhetoric?

[crb]

No, but there were just two main passages that were attacks as I recall. I haven't drunk so much koolaid to think my guy gives speeches devoid of rhetoric.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/john_mccains_acceptance_speech.html

Read it, it'll go quicker. The central section between the introduction area and the foreign policy bit is really well done. Where he talks about domestic policy.

[Parkbandit]

I just watched the speech. WTF. "I'm going to cut spending" came out of one side of his mouth and "we'll make up the difference between your old job and your new, lower paying job... And pay for your retraining." came out of the other.

I was SO willing to vote for McCain after Palin's speech... Now I'm not so sure. I know what I'll get with Obama... Socialism and out of control gov spending... I really have NO idea what the FUCK McCain is going to do.

I'm back to leaning for voting for Obama... and hope Palin runs in 2012. It also guarantees that Hillary won't have a chance to be President
for 8 more years... sounds pretty good.

[Gan]

What you are saying is that it was devoid of rhetoric?

It wasnt extremely devoid of rhetoric.

Get your shit together.

[Gan]

I'm back to leaning for voting for Obama... and hope Palin runs in 2012. It also guarantees that Hillary won't have a chance to be President
for 8 more years... sounds pretty good.

I dont know if I could vote that strategically with the thought that it spans a timeframe of 4 years. Now if it was a shorter term perhaps.

The cockblock on Hillary is pretty funny though.

[crb]

I just watched the speech. WTF. "I'm going to cut spending" came out of one side of his mouth and "we'll make up the difference between your old job and your new, lower paying job... And pay for your retraining." came out of the other.

I was SO willing to vote for McCain after Palin's speech... Now I'm not so sure. I know what I'll get with Obama... Socialism and out of control gov spending... I really have NO idea what the FUCK McCain is going to do.

I'm back to leaning for voting for Obama... and hope Palin runs in 2012. It also guarantees that Hillary won't have a chance to be President
for 8 more years... sounds pretty good.
Huh?



I know some of you have been left behind in the changing economy and it often seems your government hasn't even noticed. Government assistance for unemployed workers was designed for the economy of the 1950s. That's going to change on my watch. My opponent promises to bring back old jobs by wishing away the global economy. We're going to help workers who've lost a job that won't come back, find a new one that won't go away.

We will prepare them for the jobs of today. We will use our community colleges to help train people for new opportunities in their communities. For workers in industries that have been hard hit, we'll help make up part of the difference in wages between their old job and a temporary, lower paid one while they receive retraining that will help them find secure new employment at a decent wage.


Nevermind the whole rest of the speech talks about reforming government, cutting waste, cutting taxes, and cutting spending, this seems to be the paragraph you are fixated on.

He says he wants to drastically reform unemployment (good thing). Probably instead of just paying unemployed people, paying them to go to school. Paying them to take a lower paying job in the meantime. So, right now, we're just passing out checks, he wants to pass out checks with caveats.

The goal being to get people off unemployment faster, and into a job that is more secure, thus saving the government money in the long run.

I fail to see how you came to your conclusion. Changing it != adding to it.

[Ashliana]

I also don't see how Palin was sealing the deal for you. She's a super social conservative, which you don't claim to be.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I also don't see how Palin was sealing the deal for you. She's a super social conservative, which you don't claim to be.

If someone doesn't vote based off of social issues then a fiscal conservative politician who also has a socially conservative agenda wouldn't really be an issue.

[Khariz]

Huh?



He says he wants to drastically reform unemployment (good thing). Probably instead of just paying unemployed people, paying them to go to school. Paying them to take a lower paying job in the meantime. So, right now, we're just passing out checks, he wants to pass out checks with caveats.

The goal being to get people off unemployment faster, and into a job that is more secure, thus saving the government money in the long run.



That's exactly the way I heard it. Checks with caveats. You want paid unemployment? Okay fine, but you gotta go to school and get a job too. We'll make up for the difference in the short term, but if you aren't working to get a better job that's actually out there, you ain't getting a free ride. A plan like that would actually spend less money then paying you ad naseum for doing jack shit.

[Parkbandit]

Ah... I must have missed the first part (probably nodded off)

[ClydeR]

I thought it was good enough, though obviously the frequent applause kept interrupting his rhythm. McCain isn't a great orator, but the substance of the speech was good. Specific details, plans, issues, etc... and lighter on attacks than Barack's was.

I only saw one specific proposal, which was to increase the "child tax exemption" from $3,500 to $7,000. He didn't say when that change would take effect. I looked it up elsewhere and found that he proposes for it to take effect until 2016, which would be his last full year in office.

The speech was not denuded of rhetoric, if by "rhetoric" you mean everything other than specific proposals.

[Khariz]

All political speeches are rhetorical by nature and necessity. If you got up before a crowd of people and started to say: "Okay, here is my meticulous 600 page plan that I have come up with for welfare reform, that I have boiled down into 75 easy to follow points for you. Allow me the next hour and a half to explain." Nobody would listen to you!

So instead of rating the rhetoric on a scale let's rate the substance. McCain's speech was more substantive than Obama's. That's about all I have.

[Gan]

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

<crickets>

[Keller]

My reaction, after the last two days of RNC, were the following:

1) Whereas the DNC was focused on bringing in independent voters and showing the more moderate side of the party -- the RNC was a base-rally convention. That could be good and it could be bad. It might work to excite the party and thereby generate interest in the candidates. More likely, it turned off the independents who heard 2 days of blatent disregard for not only the democratic party but also the liberal agenda. Rudy was by far the worst. Sarcastic, snide, and disrespectful are the three adjectives that come to mind. I almost threw my remote at the TV when he dismissed the work Obama had done as a community organizer. I thought Colbert did a pretty appropriate segment on the Guiliani speech.

2) McCain, as the head of his party, looks pretty disingenuous going forward after the show the RNC just put on. He talks a good game about reaching across the aisle, putting country first, and being a Maverick -- then over two days at the convention his party repeatedly bitch-slapped the Democratic party and their agenda. It wasn't just that they disagreed with the policy -- but they mocked, rediculed, and dismissed the policies that half of this nation believes in. That's not going to help him with his image going forward.

[crb]

My reaction, after the last two days of RNC, were the following:

1) Whereas the DNC was focused on bringing in independent voters and showing the more moderate side of the party -- the RNC was a base-rally convention. That could be good and it could be bad. It might work to excite the party and thereby generate interest in the candidates. More likely, it turned off the independents who heard 2 days of blatent disregard for not only the democratic party but also the liberal agenda. Rudy was by far the worst. Sarcastic, snide, and disrespectful are the three adjectives that come to mind. I almost threw my remote at the TV when he dismissed the work Obama had done as a community organizer. I thought Colbert did a pretty appropriate segment on the Guiliani speech.

2) McCain, as the head of his party, looks pretty disingenuous going forward after the show the RNC just put on. He talks a good game about reaching across the aisle, putting country first, and being a Maverick -- then over two days at the convention his party repeatedly bitch-slapped the Democratic party and their agenda. It wasn't just that they disagreed with the policy -- but they mocked, rediculed, and dismissed the policies that half of this nation believes in. That's not going to help him with his image going forward.
You hear what you want to hear, and as a liberal I am not surprised you most heard the red meat.

Also, as a self-profession fiscal conservative (ya right) you had the most problem with Guiliani, which was the most socially liberal republican to speak.

I guess Lieberman's speech doesn't matter, nor any other the other countless speeches and parts in speeches asking for bipartisanship.

The DNC speeches had more attacks in them. You can line them up side by side and compare, it is relatively easy to do, transcripts are online. It is only your perception because you're liberal where you see the RNC ones as having more vitriol.

The the other thing, when Obama and Biden made their attacks, they did so out of anger, they were angry, and scowling, and shouting. Giuliani, Palin, and Thompson all did it with a smile, with jokes and irony.

[Parkbandit]

McCain has a far, far, far, far, far better record of sucking up.. er I mean reaching across the isle than Obama ever has and ever will. It's one of the things I dislike most about the guy... his willingness to negotiate away conservative principals.

[Mabus]

McCain has a far, far, far, far, far better record of sucking up.. er I mean reaching across the isle than Obama ever has and ever will. It's one of the things I dislike most about the guy... his willingness to negotiate away conservative principals.
Many GOP folks I know call McCain "The best Democrat running."

[Keller]

You hear what you want to hear, and as a liberal I am not surprised you most heard the red meat.

Also, as a self-profession fiscal conservative (ya right) you had the most problem with Guiliani, which was the most socially liberal republican to speak.

I guess Lieberman's speech doesn't matter, nor any other the other countless speeches and parts in speeches asking for bipartisanship.

The DNC speeches had more attacks in them. You can line them up side by side and compare, it is relatively easy to do, transcripts are online. It is only your perception because you're liberal where you see the RNC ones as having more vitriol.

The the other thing, when Obama and Biden made their attacks, they did so out of anger, they were angry, and scowling, and shouting. Giuliani, Palin, and Thompson all did it with a smile, with jokes and irony.

I forgive Guiliani for patronizing community organizers and implying they are a joke. I forgive him because he is socially liberal, but still a fucking dickwad.

Ya. Right.

It's not surprising you don't get it -- you're a Republican. (See whut eye did thur?)

[Keller]

Also, as a self-profession fiscal conservative (ya right).

Awww, you still mad you don't understand how to analyze a tax cut?

Poor, poor crb.

[Gan]

Was being a community organizer patronized at the same level as being a small town mayor or the governor of a state with a very small population?

I saw a trade off of sorts regarding that part of the rhetoric from both camps.

[Daniel]

I don't know. Was Palin a Mayor 20 years ago?

[Gan]

I did not realize time altered experience level?

*Not meant to be construed as time served... but as time since.

[Keller]

Was being a community organizer patronized at the same level as being a small town mayor or the governor of a state with a very small population?

I saw a trade off of sorts regarding that part of the rhetoric from both camps.

Had Guiliani said, "Organizing a community does not involve the leadership or strength of conviction required of being a mayor or governor," that would be fine.

But he didn't. He made a malicious joke of a very noble calling.

[Gan]

Had Guiliani said, "Organizing a community does not involve the leadership or strength of conviction required of being a mayor or governor," that would be fine.

But he didn't. He made a malicious joke of a very noble calling.

I watched his speech and I didnt get that. I did get that he was making fun of the irony of the issue of experience being raised by the Obama camp. :yes:

But I'm a Guiliani fan, so I'm biased.

I'll have to review that again.

[Daniel]

I did not realize time altered experience level?

*Not meant to be construed as time served... but as time since.

It doesn't. I'd just hope people would realize that Obama hasn't neccessarily been sitting idle for the last 20 years.

[Keller]

He mocked Obama's resume with. "He was a community organizer . . . (crowd laughs as he pauses for drama) . . . What? (crowd goes into hysterics).

That's what I remember. Maybe Youtube it?

[Apathy]

I'm back to leaning for voting for Obama... and hope Palin runs in 2012. It also guarantees that Hillary won't have a chance to be President
for 8 more years... sounds pretty good.

This is a really good point, insomuch that I think whichever one is elected will not get a second term.

[ClydeR]

I decided to compare McCain's and Obama's speeches with regard to substantive content. Below I have copied and pasted from the two speeches the portions that I believe are substantive, but not necessarily specific. I spent all day working on it! If you think I left anything out, please add it.


McCain

I will keep taxes low a d cut them where I can....I will open new markets
to our goods a d services....I will cut government spending.

My tax cuts will create jobs....My health care plan will make it easier for more America s to find a d keep good health care insurance.

Cutting the second highest business tax rate in the world will help American companies compete and keep jobs from moving overseas. Doubling the child tax exemption from $3500 to $7000 will improve the lives of millions of American families.

Reducing government spending and getting rid of failed programs will let you keep more of your own money to save, spend and invest as you see fit. Opening new markets and preparing workers to compete in the world economy is essential to our future prosperity.

We're going to help workers who've lost a job that won't come back, find a new one that won't go away.

We will prepare them for the jobs of today. We will use our community colleges to help train people for new opportunities in their communities. For workers in industries that have been hard hit, we'll help make up part of the difference in wages between their old job a d a temporary, lower paid one while they receive retraining that will help them find secure new employment at a decent wage.

We need to shake up failed school bureaucracies with competition, empower parents with choice, remove barriers to qualified instructors, attract and reward good teachers, a d help bad teachers find a other line of work. When a public school fails to meet its obligations to students, parents deserve a choice in the education of their children. And I intend to give it to them.

My fellow Americans, when I'm President, we're going to embark on the most ambitious national project in decades. We are going to stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us very much. We will attack the problem on every front. We will produce more energy at home. We will drill new wells offshore, and we'll drill them now. We will build more nuclear power plants. We will develop clean coal technology. We will increase the use of wind, tide, solar and natural gas. We will encourage the development and use of flex fuel, hybrid and electric automobiles.

I will ask Democrats and I dependents to serve with me. And my administration will set a new standard for transparency and accountability.




Obama

So let me spell out exactly what that change would mean if I am President.

Change means a tax code that doesn't reward the lobbyists who wrote it, but the American workers and small businesses who deserve it.

...I will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America.

I will eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and the start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow.

I will cut taxes - cut taxes - for 95% of all working families. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class.

And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as President: in ten years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East.

As President, I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies re-tool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America. I'll make it easier for the American people to afford these new cars. And I'll invest 150 billion dollars over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy - wind power and solar power and the next generation of biofuels; an investment that will lead to new industries and five million new jobs that pay well and can't ever be outsourced.

I'll invest in early childhood education. I'll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries and give them more support. And in exchange, I'll ask for higher standards and more accountability. And we will keep our promise to every young American - if you commit to serving your community or your country, we will make sure you can afford a college education.

If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves. And as someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer, I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most.

Now is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave, because nobody in America should have to choose between keeping their jobs and caring for a sick child or ailing parent.

Now is the time to change our bankruptcy laws, so that your pensions are protected ahead of CEO bonuses; and the time to protect Social Security for future generations.

And now is the time to keep the promise of equal pay for an equal day's work, because I want my daughters to have exactly the same opportunities as your sons.

Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime - by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less....

As Commander-in-Chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home.

I will end this war in Iraq responsibly, and finish the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan. I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts. But I will also renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression. I will build new partnerships to defeat the threats of the 21st century: terrorism and nuclear proliferation; poverty and genocide; climate change and disease. And I will restore our moral standing, so that America is once again that last, best hope for all who are called to the cause of freedom, who long for lives of peace, and who yearn for a better future.

[TheEschaton]

I do hope ClydeR will reveal his true identity after the election.

[Mabus]

I loved Fred Thompson's part of the speech that dealt with Obama's "cutting taxes for 95%":

"Now our opponents tell you not to worry about their tax increases.
They tell you they are not going to tax your family.

No, they’re just going to tax “businesses”! So unless you buy something from a “business”, like groceries or clothes or gasoline … or unless you get a paycheck from a big or a small “business”, don’t worry … it’s not going to affect you.

They say they are not going to take any water out of your side of the bucket, just the “other” side of the bucket! That’s their idea of tax reform."
-Fred Thompson

Now that man spoke the truth.