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Stunseed
09-03-2008, 10:57 PM
I've reached my cman point checklist amount of CM a little early. I'm protected/trained pretty much what I want, the rest will be just for the AS..

So what next? MTP's I'm going to start up into the Summon Lore, but I'm not sure what's the best use of PTP's for me at this state. I don't hide, so that's out.

Stunseed (at level 94), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 210 110
Shield Use.........................| 195 95
Combat Maneuvers...................| 234 134
Edged Weapons......................| 286 186
Ambush.............................| 195 95
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 195 95
Dodging............................| 195 95
Arcane Symbols.....................| 45 9
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 194 94
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 5 1
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 114 28
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 5 1
Disarming Traps....................| 15 3
Stalking and Hiding................| 195 95
Perception.........................| 195 95
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 50
Training Points: 7 Phy 8 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

Any thoughtful insight is appreciated.

Stunseed, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 4
Dirtkick dirtkick 4
Disarm Weapon disarm 4
Sweep sweep 4
Feint feint 4

droit
09-03-2008, 11:19 PM
We've got very similar builds, so I'll paste mine for comparison. Keep in mind I'm almost 2m past cap. As for what to train, most things I can think of uses MTPs. Lores are fun (what's the transformation lore, by the way?). Spells are fun too, but I take it you're going for a more physical build. You should refer to a post Arshwikk made on the officials regarding spell rank thresholds for semidux and maybe train your spells up to the next threshold. One short term goal should be to up your swimming to 50-60 ranks for hunting the temple.

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 170 70
Shield Use.........................| 201 101
Combat Maneuvers...................| 235 135
Edged Weapons......................| 302 202
Ambush.............................| 201 101
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 302 202
Dodging............................| 201 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 93 21
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 161 61
Survival...........................| 151 51
Stalking and Hiding................| 275 175
Perception.........................| 201 101
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 160 60
First Aid..........................| 40 8
Trading............................| 108 26

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 71


Droit, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Garrote garrote 1
Side by Side sidebyside 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 12

BriarFox
09-03-2008, 11:25 PM
Hrm... I'd probably go for 55 ranks of MOC (I think that's the threshold for 3 single attacks (50) and 4 foes (55), up your AS to 24, and then maybe think about going for MBP for the hell of it. ;)

Stunseed
09-03-2008, 11:27 PM
Staying in OTF. I normally don't like to convert TP's, which is why I was looking a PTP use ( shield use to 2x for like 23 DS? wtf ) for skills. I could go up to 180 ranks in armor and bust out the flaring 9x MBP, which would be awesome. I don't use very much stamina in a hunt, so PF's not really a caller, either.

The retarded ranks are from items I wear.

Name: Stunseed Zrenigotham Race: Human Profession: Ranger (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 32 Expr: 6989271 Level: 94
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Constitution (CON): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Agility (AGI): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Aura (AUR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Logic (LOG): 99 (29) ... 131 (45) !!!
Intuition (INT): 97 (28) ... 97 (28)
Wisdom (WIS): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Influence (INF): 51 (0) ... 51 (0)

Brielus
09-04-2008, 12:48 PM
I'm currently trying to max out my dodge, then maybe lores, and i was kinda sorta debating on picking up thw.



Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 160 60
Combat Maneuvers...................| 213 113
Ranged Weapons.....................| 302 202
Ambush.............................| 302 202
Physical Fitness...................| 165 65
Dodging............................| 223 123
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 20 4
Harness Power......................| 191 91
Stalking and Hiding................| 302 202
Perception.........................| 302 202
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 140 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 25

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 50

Izzy
09-04-2008, 01:16 PM
Why the hell aren't you 2x edged?

Stunseed
09-04-2008, 02:02 PM
Because I forgot while I was pumping up CM. I'm back to 2x edged now :)

droit
09-04-2008, 02:02 PM
I don't use very much stamina in a hunt, so PF's not really a caller, either.

PF has some other advantages besides stamina that would make it worth considering. For one thing, it helps against non-cman critter maneuvers, especially things like griffin wing buffets and call wind. At 2x PF, I am flat out immune to call wind. PF also influences a lot of other hidden rolls, and of course, reduxy goodness. It's also pretty quick and easy for rangers to train it.

PS - you never mentioned what the transformation lore was for.

Edit: Duh..its a side benefit from an enhancive you're wearing.

Izzy
09-04-2008, 02:58 PM
you never mentioned what the transformation lore was for.

He's training to become Optimus Primal.

AnticorRifling
09-04-2008, 03:26 PM
Holy shit Stun is lvl 94...you might be able to beat me in a duel now.

Stunseed
09-04-2008, 03:30 PM
Gotta re-activate in order to pull that off, champ.

Drew
09-04-2008, 04:00 PM
Train in combat mobility!

droit
09-04-2008, 05:24 PM
Train in combat mobility!

Was that meant to be sarcastic? Rangers can't train mobility. Our CMAN list sucks.

Combat Movement (cmovement), Rank 3 (CM points needed: 6)
Combat Focus (focus), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Combat Mastery (cmastery), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Dirtkick (dirtkick), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Shield Bash (sbash), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Sweep (sweep), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Feint (feint), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Hamstring (hamstring), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Precision (precision), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 6)
Garrote (garrote), Rank 2 (CM points needed: 6)
Subdual Strike (sstrike), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Multi-Fire (mfire), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)
Side by Side (sidebyside), Rank 4 (CM points needed: 12)
Trip (trip), Rank 1 (CM points needed: 3)

That's it. That's all the maneuvers we're allowed. It's bullshit.

Drew
09-04-2008, 05:31 PM
Was that meant to be sarcastic?


Yep, my main is a ranger. Stun and I have spent much time bemoaning how crappy our manuevers are because we both overtrain CM.

droit
09-04-2008, 06:05 PM
Yeah man, tell me about it. I'm overtraining CM too, and I'm at the point where I'm training things for RP purposes, not utility. Garrote is fun, but absolutely unusable in hunting situations. I'll probably pick up a rank of sweep just so I can pick on people smaller than me. Side by side was a good option until I realized that I'm much more efficient hiding and ambushing in warcamps, even with a group. What's left? Dirtkick? Bah.

Drew
09-04-2008, 09:54 PM
Sweep is the best ranger CMan by far.

droit
09-04-2008, 10:09 PM
Sweep is the best ranger CMan by far.

Okay, I'll bite. Why do people keep saying sweep is our best CMAN? I just do not see any advantage to it. It's 5 seconds of hard RT that accomplishes the same thing that spike thorn does in 3 seconds of soft RT, only minus the heavy damage and chance to kill. It also fails to accomplish what an aimed strike at the legs can do, namely severing the limb. Does it add a fuckton of RT or something? Someone enlighten me.

SolitareConfinement
09-04-2008, 10:18 PM
only 10 seconds at most...

droit
09-05-2008, 03:18 AM
only 10 seconds at most...

Lame. Consider how many of our spells have the same or better effect than sweep. Spike thorn prones and does damage. Tangleweed prones and adds RT...over and over and over. Call swarm prones and adds RT, poison, lower defense and perception, etc. Sounds doesn't prone, but it can reduce the target's DS by 50, which is equivalent to knocking it over. And these are all done in fewer seconds of soft RT for reasonable mana costs. What am I missing here?

Edited to add: my anger here isn't directed at anyone posting, but rather at the suckiness that is the ranger cman list.

Izzy
09-05-2008, 09:09 AM
I'd vote for dirtkick. It's a solid -30AS/-60Perception/-35% EBP at rank 5. So it helps you both defensively and offensively. And you can do it from defensive stance. Makes you harder to hit, easier to hide, and easier for you to hit them.

Fallen
09-05-2008, 09:32 AM
Why use that when you can cast 615 or sounds?

Tea & Strumpets
09-05-2008, 09:37 AM
I'd get that last rank of disarm, mostly for defense.

Stanley Burrell
09-05-2008, 09:47 AM
Eh, my stat placement is a bit strange, I usually do the following:


Ranger, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5

>cman smas
>.bluecr
>hide
>practice Shaolin Shadowboxing
>look my claidhmore
>look my claidhmore
>practice more Shaolin Shadowboxing
>look my claidhmore
>think
>amb amb amb amb amb amb amb amb amb amb amb amb amb <breathe> amb amb amb amb amb amb amb

NocturnalRob
09-05-2008, 09:51 AM
Eh, my stat placement is a bit strange, I usually do the following:


you're a weird guy, Ace.

Stanley Burrell
09-05-2008, 09:58 AM
you're a weird guy, Ace.

Weird?

You're a benevolent dude-person, Roberto.

Edited to Add: I am now stabbing myself in the jugular for not getting that reference ::chews on a million toothpicks::

NocturnalRob
09-05-2008, 10:02 AM
Weird?

You're a benevolent dude-person, Roberto.

Edited to Add: I am now stabbing myself in the jugular for not getting that reference ::chews on a million toothpicks::

dan marino's best role.

also: no, i don't smoke. it's a disgusting habit.

Stanley Burrell
09-05-2008, 10:05 AM
This. Is the greatest thread about text-based forestwardens. Evar.

Drew
09-05-2008, 10:18 AM
Okay, I'll bite. Why do people keep saying sweep is our best CMAN? I just do not see any advantage to it. It's 5 seconds of hard RT that accomplishes the same thing that spike thorn does in 3 seconds of soft RT, only minus the heavy damage and chance to kill. It also fails to accomplish what an aimed strike at the legs can do, namely severing the limb. Does it add a fuckton of RT or something? Someone enlighten me.

Sweep always works if you roll 101 and it's pretty easy to figure out what your shot is at sweeping something. Spike thorn doesn't always prone and adds no RT. As a THW ranger I've had to make sure my strategy works so that I never get cast at because bolt spells destroy me. On top of that some creatures you just never want them to get a spell off at you. I'd say against illoke spike thorn prones them (I'm 2-8 levels above all of them) 25% of the time. Whereas if I lay down a vine, and then sweep before the vine gets off I'm almost guaranteed to have a creature who is proned and in RT so I won't be getting in spell shot at me from the ground.

Izzy
09-05-2008, 11:06 AM
Why use that when you can cast 615 or sounds?

It doesn't cost mana.

Or, use all of them.

Fallen
09-05-2008, 11:14 AM
It doesn't cost mana.

Or, use all of them.

I suppose. How much stamina does a ranger have to throw around considering they are already running Surge and/or Shadow Mastery?

droit
09-05-2008, 11:25 AM
We don't have access to surge :(. If you're using shadow mastery and ambushing, you shouldn't be using setup maneuvers at all, IMO. If you insist on it, it might be hard to both keep smastery running and use maneuvers consistently. Without shadow mastery, rangers have plenty of stamina assuming they 1x PF like every ranger should.

Izzy
09-05-2008, 11:34 AM
I suppose. How much stamina does a ranger have to throw around considering they are already running Surge and/or Shadow Mastery?

Like droit said, no Surge for rangers.

The biggest advantage for dirtkick is that it decreases ebp..which is one of the only things that prevent me from hitting something with my bow. My AS is plenty high to always hit them.

BriarFox
09-05-2008, 11:36 AM
Also, sweep beats out feint for any critter on the BCS. It might take 2 feints to get a creature into offensive, but when you sweep something, not only is it prone, but when it stands back up, it moves automatically to offensive for a few. Against turtles, like Vvrael warlocks with tower shields and longswords, I sweep, wait for it to stand, sweep, and then shoot it in the eye.

Stunseed
09-12-2008, 08:17 PM
Bump.

Here are my ideas presently.

1. Physical Fitness.
2. Multi-Opponent Combat ( to 55 ranks )
3. Shield Use
4. Dodge.

I suppose I COULD migrate TP's, but I've done alright so far without.

AKOE!
09-14-2008, 01:06 PM
We don't have access to surge :(. If you're using shadow mastery and ambushing, you shouldn't be using setup maneuvers at all, IMO. If you insist on it, it might be hard to both keep smastery running and use maneuvers consistently. Without shadow mastery, rangers have plenty of stamina assuming they 1x PF like every ranger should.

I love ambushing and shadow mastery. I'm almost to my 5th rank and wanted to find a cman that goes well with shadow mastery but the only thing I can think of is dirtkick. Any suggestions? I 1x PF and only have about 75 stamina so using them both would probably be difficult. Should I just learn my 5th rank of shadow mastery and be happy with that? Training in cmans is pretty expensive anyway so I'd love to use those extra training points on something else. Thanks :)

Oh, one more thing.. I'm currently 1x in ambush. Do you think it would be wise to add more ambush at the expense of my dodging (1x) or perception (2x) skill? Most people say 1x is enough for any of those skills. Thanks again

droit
09-14-2008, 01:12 PM
I love ambushing and shadow mastery. I'm almost to my 5th rank and wanted to find a cman that goes well with shadow mastery but the only thing I can think of is dirtkick. Any suggestions? I 1x PF and only have about 75 stamina so using them both would probably be difficult. Should I just learn my 5th rank of shadow mastery and be happy with that? Training in cmans is pretty expensive anyway so I'd love to use those extra training points on something else. Thanks :)

I'd recommend going to rank 5 of shadow mastery. It will shave a second off of each attack, whereas any other setup maneuver adds 3-5 unnecessary seconds. I would suggest you keep training CMANs beyond shadow mastery, if only to master disarm. The extra AS never hurt, either.

droit
09-14-2008, 01:23 PM
Bump.

Here are my ideas presently.

1. Physical Fitness.
2. Multi-Opponent Combat ( to 55 ranks )
3. Shield Use
4. Dodge.

I suppose I COULD migrate TP's, but I've done alright so far without.

What I've been doing since cap is switching back and forth between mental and physical skills. I'll convert a ton of physical TPs while training a mental skill, then when I'm done with that I switch to a physical one and the training goes much faster. Overall, I'm still balanced. The end result is the same as spending TPs only on appropriate things, but it makes me think things are going much faster, particularly when I'm aiming for certain thresholds (like 55 MoC ranks).

Mtenda
09-14-2008, 02:04 PM
I love ambushing and shadow mastery. I'm almost to my 5th rank and wanted to find a cman that goes well with shadow mastery but the only thing I can think of is dirtkick. Any suggestions? I 1x PF and only have about 75 stamina so using them both would probably be difficult. Should I just learn my 5th rank of shadow mastery and be happy with that? Training in cmans is pretty expensive anyway so I'd love to use those extra training points on something else. Thanks :)

Oh, one more thing.. I'm currently 1x in ambush. Do you think it would be wise to add more ambush at the expense of my dodging (1x) or perception (2x) skill? Most people say 1x is enough for any of those skills. Thanks again

Drop your perception a lot unless you are using ranged weapons. It does not help with ambush at all despite what the website says.

AKOE!
09-15-2008, 03:28 AM
Yeah I use ranged weapons. I'd eventually like to learn edged and shield but maybe that is a bit too ambitious.

graysun
09-16-2008, 04:19 PM
Bump.

Here are my ideas presently.

1. Physical Fitness.
2. Multi-Opponent Combat ( to 55 ranks )
3. Shield Use
4. Dodge.

I suppose I COULD migrate TP's, but I've done alright so far without.

I am still a year away from these kinds of decisions, but agree with what you posted earlier about doubling shield seeming like a waste of points.

I sometimes do what Droit is doing - convert in the short-term to realize big goals sooner, but it has always balanced back out for me so far.

Gray is a hider, so he probably won't go after the MoC that Stun is getting - but I hear it swarms like crazy in some of the higher-level hunting areas.

PT seems like it does a couple things (lessens manuever-based damage and increases a ranger's semi-dux) and costs less than the other skills. Whether it's worth it to overtrain in PT, I can't say, but he could certainly get more of it sooner than the others.

I guess the question is whether you want to make him more able to stand in front of multiple critters and/or take hits (MoC and PT), or better able to avoid stuff (dodge). I don't have the best sense of which of those things is more important for his hunting style and the areas he'll be going.

Stunseed
10-08-2008, 09:59 PM
I have made a decision!

I picked up 40 ranks of Summon Lore, bringing me to my magical threshhold at this current time.

Next skill, it's physical's turn....

Multi-Opponent Combat!

Not only for defense, but since Stunseed is such a physical Ranger, and I don't use my stamina in the slightest, I'm going to break the stamina rules and target mstrike away. As it stands, I can hit 3 creatures, 3 times in 15 seconds using an open mstrike, and 1 creature focused ( 2 swings ) 3 times in 15 seconds. At 55 ranks, I should ( should again ) be able to hit one creature focused ( 3 swings ) 3 times at 15 seconds. That's sexy.

Hecates
10-24-2008, 12:06 PM
akoe, as ranged what Cmans you use? ive been thinking about droping my CMANS get doubling my dodge and perception... i dont find them that usefull.

any recomendations? i know perception will help my ranged AS. and im fulling singled in hiding and ambushing, but not really a sniper, should i drop my hiding too?

i rely on spike and arrow in the eye from open.