1650/1635 ideas & comparison.

[TheLastShamurai]

i definitely think that we need an attack spell with a good chance of death/damage. either in the 1650 spot, or by being able to amp out the damage on 1635 with lores.

both of out semi brothers have kill spells and pets. i suppose our pets would be considered out bonded weapons, but we definitely lack in the department of spell damage.

im also in favor of combining 1615/1635 into just 1635. one version of the spell being targeted with less mana, the other open with more, like dispruption.

i know there is a big thing about us being able to cast from plate, but whopty do. bards don't have to leave guarded to anniliate everything in the room (with less lore training than i have now), and many rangers can just spike and pick everything off from hiding. about all the plate does is allow me to take hits, because i take a lot of them.

don't mistake this for complaining, as i am fine with my character/build, i am just curious about what others think about it and their ideas for improvement or comparison to other semis.


as an aside, one of my post cap goals is to get the skills i need to hunt with hiding/ambush. should be interesting.

[Stunseed]

Give me BESEECH, I'll gladly give you what you want.

[TheLastShamurai]

what is it you really feel you need it for?

[Stunseed]

You're the one in plate. What do you need it for that your "semi brother's" do not?

[TheLastShamurai]

because whatever GM made paladins is a fucking sadist.

we were designed to basically just stay in offensive and swing, swing, swing. i can't even imagine what we would do with our weak spells without plate and beseech.

whereas on the flip side of that coin, rangers are made to hide/ambush. its not everyones choice to choose that build, but they were made for it.

bards are well, better than both paladins and rangers in my opinion. bastards.

[Izzy]

Paladin's have no business with powerful attack spells. They're the physical semi, simple as that.

[TheLastShamurai]

i do not think its unreasonable to have a spell that does decent damage, not anything crazy, but decent damage. especially if it is going to cost 50 mana to cast.

it costs of 15/35 mana now just for a spell that basically only disables. for the most part the damage is negligable. they do sometimes crit kill things, but for creatures that aren't easily critted the damage is a joke.

bards and rangers both have spells that are less mana intensive, for the same if not better disabling ability and mass attack spells. they need those spells, becuase like you say, we can train more per/level in physical skills than the other two.

but if it wasn't an attack spell, 1650 would likely be some utility and/or defense, which in my opinion would go farther towards making us more powerful than a damage spell we can cast 4 or 5 times.

[Gelston]

Perhaps a spell like 1611 thats adds shitloads to CMan or whatever(I mean a lot) but for a short duration. Or drop that down to 1640 and make Divine Word 1650.

[Izzy]

i do not think its unreasonable to have a spell that does decent damage, not anything crazy, but decent damage. especially if it is going to cost 50 mana to cast.

it costs of 15/35 mana now just for a spell that basically only disables. for the most part the damage is negligable. they do sometimes crit kill things, but for creatures that aren't easily critted the damage is a joke.

bards and rangers both have spells that are less mana intensive, for the same if not better disabling ability and mass attack spells. they need those spells, becuase like you say, we can train more per/level in physical skills than the other two.

but if it wasn't an attack spell, 1650 would likely be some utility and/or defense, which in my opinion would go farther towards making us more powerful than a damage spell we can cast 4 or 5 times.

My 1615/1630 crits plenty often. You clearly just chose the wrong diety! rollplay before roleplay, sir, that is the gemstone way.

But seriously, lightning based 1615 is sweet. Again, paladin's aren't casters anyway. They fact that they even have a mass attack spell is amazing to me. Their spells should be geared towards making them more effective weapon users...because that's what they are. If you want to have attack spells..roll a pure or magical semi.

Also, what spells does a ranger have that are less mana intensive/more effective? 635 costs the same as 1635. 610 (assuming this is the disabling spell you refer to) is highly ineffective against things over your level. 615 is also fairly ineffective when overhunting. 616 costs more than 1615, and again, has overhunting limitations. I'm not shitting on ranger spells..my ranger is by far my favorite character. But 1615/1635 are not bad spells.

Bards, on the other hand, are haxsauce. I'll agree with you there.

[Fallen]

Paladins need a mana dump spell comparable to 650, but not as sucky. Something that gives them an extreme boost to their skills for a short period of time at a high rate of mana. They wouldn't be able to hunt with it running constantly, but it would be impressive, flashy, and powerful.

Their damage spells need better lore and SMC tie ins.

[Izzy]

Paladins need a mana dump spell comparable to 650, but not as sucky. Something that gives them an extreme boost to their skills for a short period of time at a high rate of mana. They wouldn't be able to hunt with it running constantly, but it would be impressive, flashy, and powerful.

Their damage spells need better lore and SMC tie ins.

The lore boosts to damage I can see, so long as the lores that they use don't also affect physical skills. Make it an either or thing.

Also, 650 is slick shit. I use it all hunt every hunt. Generally swapping between dex/agi for increased AS/DS. I also use it for making bounties ultra easy, and eating herbs (lol, who am I kidding, i don't get hurt!). I don't understand why people h8erade it so much. The duration isn't amazing..but it also doesn't have a daily limit like the other level 50 spells. And a good hunt shouldn't take longer than 10 minutes unless you suck hard at hunting. Or are cash hunting.

[Stunseed]

I'm fine with the duration of the spell, as in OTF I can go bell-fried in about 4 minutes if all goes well.

It's the 2 minutes per aspect that kills me. Give me a lore-based threshold to be ONE aspect the entire time. Something.

[Fallen]

I only say 650 sucks because that is all I read on the Officials regarding the spell aside from a few Capped rangers. Perhaps a better way to go for Paladins is to severely limit the choices of the types of boosts they can get, and extend the duration of the spell.

[droit]

Fuck 650...at least in its current implementation. If I were a paladin, I'd push for a spell modeled after the most recent 50th level spell releases: limited usage but high power. Personally, I've got a lot better things to do with my mana than cast a 50th level spell very frequently. I'd much rather have a super awesome card up my sleeve that can only be used a couple times per day, but will totally win when I do use it. The most useful ability I've gained in a long time is the emergency sigil of escape from GoS, and that's on a 24 hour timer. Granted, it was filling a niche for us rangers (the only semi or square class that is rendered completely helpless by a stun). More abilities like that would be a big improvement.

[thefarmer]

What we (paladins) really need is a mass RT adder. Nothing that initially causes damage, but with lore training can possibly. Something like ewave/major ewave.

Divine strike/Judgement *can* make they kneel, but unless you do enough damage to stun, they just stand right back up. It also costs a good chunk of lore to get beyond 3-4 targets.

[Fallen]

A 615ish spell would be boss for Paladins. They have no truly reliable disablers.

[Izzy]

Fuck 650...at least in its current implementation. If I were a paladin, I'd push for a spell modeled after the most recent 50th level spell releases: limited usage but high power. Personally, I've got a lot better things to do with my mana than cast a 50th level spell very frequently. I'd much rather have a super awesome card up my sleeve that can only be used a couple times per day, but will totally win when I do use it. The most useful ability I've gained in a long time is the emergency sigil of escape from GoS, and that's on a 24 hour timer. Granted, it was filling a niche for us rangers (the only semi or square class that is rendered completely helpless by a stun). More abilities like that would be a big improvement.

See I hate limited abilities. The great thing about 650 is that is useful in LOTS of different ways. I do like the idea of extending a single aspect's duration with lore, but again: I'd much rather be able to always add that extra skill ranks/blocking/as/ds/whatever whenever I want than be able to run away like a pussy once a day. In fact, I'm pretty sure if you ran the defensive aspects constantly, it'd save you from more deaths than a once a day sigil of escape-esque spell.

[Drew]

I only hunt 2-3 times a day max. 650 sucks.

[TheLastShamurai]

What we (paladins) really need is a mass RT adder. Nothing that initially causes damage, but with lore training can possibly.

i wouldn't mind if 1614 was like a mass pious trial instead of its useless current form.

[thefarmer]

Pious trial is still shitty, honestly.

[TheLastShamurai]

i like it, just do not usually find time to cast it at one particular thing.

if it had a mass form, i would use it a lot.

[Grimaldus]

A mass version of pious trial might be interesting, I use the normal one with feint to control grizzled/ancient creatures from bounties.

I also don't like having a weak version of a cleric spell clogging up the 40th slot, I would rather spend 40 mana for an effective version of Divine Vengeance. If I have to die to see the spell go off, I would hope it would be impressive.

[Stunseed]

As a Ranger, I'd be willing to pay 50 mana for a BESEECH factor which is more than the other two semi classes. In fact, since animals break stuns very quickly, you can tie it into 650 to make it decent.

[TheLastShamurai]

As a Ranger, I'd be willing to pay 50 mana for a BESEECH factor which is more than the other two semi classes. In fact, since animals break stuns very quickly, you can tie it into 650 to make it decent.

it would be a neat side effect of 650. or they could make companions worth their salt.

the avians could pick you up, the canines drag you away and the rodents could chuckle as you die.

[TheLastShamurai]

mass attack spell achieved!

now only if i had that many MnS ranks.

[thefarmer]

It still doesn't count.

Paladins need one in their own circle.

[TheLastShamurai]

works for me.