Sentence for Osama's Driver

[crb]

time served + 6 months?

Well... this should prove it to the activists out there that the military won't automatically condemn every defendent. But I think this is bullshit.

Take that he was Osama's driven out of it. Billy Bob from Memphis driving his pickup gets pulled over by the cops for speeding and they see two antiaircraft missiles in his truck bed. I think he'd get a longer sentence.

http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/archives/wafghan22.gif

Tell me I'm wrong?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I thought it was 66 months on top of what he'd already served?

[crb]

no no, 66 months with credit for time served.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

If that's the case, then jesus christ.

People spend four times that amount of time in jail for selling someone drugs. I'm all for them having trials but that doesn't seem nearly stiff enough for someone directly aiding a terror organization bent on destroying the US.

[sst]

Thats what we call politics

[Sean of the Thread]

No that's what we call a need for drug law reform.

[sst]

well from somebody whos got a history of drunk driving it dosent surprise me you feel that those type of laws should be changed.

[Jaimaltz]

time served + 6 months?

Well... this should prove it to the activists out there that the military won't automatically condemn every defendent. But I think this is bullshit.

Take that he was Osama's driven out of it. Billy Bob from Memphis driving his pickup gets pulled over by the cops for speeding and they see two antiaircraft missiles in his truck bed. I think he'd get a longer sentence.

Tell me I'm wrong?

You clearly don't know anything about the case. Hamdan wasn't allowed to choose his own attorney, and was defended by a Pentagon appointed US Navy officer, and his jurors were all Pentagon appointed US military officers. Even in this Kangaroo Court, Hamdan was cleared of the main charge.

Hamdan's attorney, was no terrorist sympathizer, yet even this United States officer said that the rules Bush designed for the military tribunals were explicitly designed to achieve convictions. He also said that the judge allowed evidence that would not have been admitted by any civilian or military US court, because it was obtained through interrogations tainted by coercive tactics - tactics the U.S. government has admitted to. The prosecution offered no solid evidence, only statements made while under "enhanced interrogation techniques." Additionally, the prosecution held all the cards on the evidence, and thus could selectively put forth evidence favorable to them. They had nothing on him.

You know nothing about what happened, only what the media tell you, and even they only got the ideas about the case they had from claims made by the government, with no evidence offered. I bet you think everyone in Guantanamo that was put there by afghan warlords handing over random people to the U.S. as "terrorists" to fill bush's quota are terrorists too, right? I mean, George Bush never lies, after all.

You're a fucking retard.

[sst]

You clearly don't know anything about the case. Hamdan wasn't allowed to choose his own attorney, and was defended by a Pentagon appointed US Navy officer, and his jurors were all Pentagon appointed US military officers. Even in this Kangaroo Court, Hamdan was cleared of the main charge.

Hamdan's attorney, was no terrorist sympathizer, yet even this United States officer said that the rules Bush designed for the military tribunals were explicitly designed to achieve convictions. He also said that the judge allowed evidence that would not have been admitted by any civilian or military US court, because it was obtained through interrogations tainted by coercive tactics - tactics the U.S. government has admitted to. The prosecution offered no solid evidence, only statements made while under "enhanced interrogation techniques." Additionally, the prosecution held all the cards on the evidence, and thus could selectively put forth evidence favorable to them. They had nothing on him.

You know nothing about what happened, only what the media tell you, and even they only got the ideas about the case they had from claims made by the government, with no evidence offered. I bet you think everyone in Guantanamo that was put there by afghan warlords handing over random people to the U.S. as "terrorists" to fill bush's quota are terrorists too, right? I mean, George Bush never lies, after all.

You're a fucking retard.

Um, homeboy was caught by americans...

[Jaimaltz]

Um, homeboy was caught by americans...

I'm aware of that, I was commenting on the assumptions people make about the guilt/innocence of people based solely on claims made by the government without seeing any evidence that would back that up.

[sst]

no you were attempting to make it seem as if this guy was just turned over by some afghans and we took what they said on face value.

You too know nothing of what happened with this guy since all you know is what has been told to the media by the rep for the government.

Which makes you just as fucking retarded as you say other people are.

[Jaimaltz]

no you were attempting to make it seem as if this guy was just turned over by some afghans and we took what they said on face value.


You fail at reading comprehension.

Here's what I actually wrote:

"You know nothing about what happened, only what the media tell you, and even they only got the ideas about the case they had from claims made by the government, with no evidence offered. I bet you think everyone in Guantanamo that was put there by afghan warlords handing over random people to the U.S. as "terrorists" to fill bush's quota are terrorists too, right? I mean, George Bush never lies, after all.

It doesn't at all say that Hamden was picked up by Afghans, it's a direct comment on CRB's attitude regarding his assumption of guilt when he doesn't have the facts.


You too know nothing of what happened with this guy since all you know is what has been told to the media by the rep for the government.

Exactly, which is why courts exist. In this case, due process was ignored, evidence obtained through coercive actions was accepted by the judge, and yet they still didn't produce any hard evidence other than statements made during distress that wouldn't have been accepted in any legitimate court.


Which makes you just as fucking retarded as you say other people are.

No, it makes you an idiot for not knowing how to read.

Edited to fix broken quotations.

[sst]

So we should arrest and try every terrorist or insurgent that attacks American forces in US courts?

I read just fine and you were still attempting to make the connection.

remember BUSH LIED AND PEOPLE DIED!!

[Jaimaltz]

So we should arrest and try every terrorist or insurgent that attacks American forces in US courts?

There's been so many examples of absurdities, mistakes, abuses, and outright lies, we don't know if someone is a terrorist until they've had their day in court, and evidence against them presented. But it certainly doesn't help when they just get show trials that ignore proper rules of evidence. Do you really think that it is acceptable for people to be snatched up, thrown in a cell indefinitely, with no way to challenge their detention?

Even George Bush himself has talked a good talk about how we're "spreading freedom." It's hard to do that when you're ignoring basic liberties at every opportunity.

[sst]

There's been so many examples of absurdities, mistakes, abuses, and outright lies, we don't know if someone is a terrorist until they've had their day in court, and evidence against them presented. But it certainly doesn't help when they just get show trials that ignore proper rules of evidence. Do you really think that it is acceptable for people to be snatched up, thrown in a cell indefinitely, with no way to challenge their detention?

Yes, I do, without a doubt 100% think we should be able to hold these terrorists indefinitely without their "day in court" or their "one phone call."


Even George Bush himself has talked a good talk about how we're "spreading freedom." It's hard to do that when you're ignoring basic liberties at every opportunity.

That freedom is spread in the wake of war, to have freedom catch hold we need to first win the war right in front of us to allow for it to be created. The military are not cops, even though they have been somewhat forced into that role. They capture people of intelligence value for, amazingly, intelligence. Intelligence which can save the lives of other soldiers on the ground. In my opinion the rights of those terrorists come second to the welfare of the soldiers, the welfare Americans over there, and victory. Information should be collected from them by any means available.

[TheEschaton]

Yes, I do, without a doubt 100% think we should be able to hold these terrorists indefinitely without their "day in court" or their "one phone call."


You have to realize, new person to the forums, Dave's a fucking moron. He can't even comprehend the irony of his service in the Armed Forces to supposedly defend freedom, and the conflict with the above statement.

Dave, that you would willingly give up every right to a person merely suspected of doing something wrong makes the fact that they give you a gun and allow you to interact with Iraqis even more horrifying. Your own military says this guy was just a driver, had no part in planning, or even knowing, about 9/11 (which is what he was charged with), and was, in fact, scorned by Al Qaeda leadership as a not-true-believer who was just in it for the steady job of being a driver.

-TheE-

[Clove]

You fail at reading comprehension.

Here's what I actually wrote:

"You know nothing about what happened, only what the media tell you, and even they only got the ideas about the case they had from claims made by the government, with no evidence offered. I bet you think everyone in Guantanamo that was put there by afghan warlords handing over random people to the U.S. as "terrorists" to fill bush's quota are terrorists too, right? I mean, George Bush never lies, after all.No you didn't expressly claim that Hamden was one such person, but given your defense of him and your criticism of crb, it isn't unreasonable for a reader to conclude that you are implying it with that comment/assumption. Quit playing the innocent. At best you did a muddy job of expressing yourself. At worst you attempted to mislead.

[sst]

You have to realize, new person to the forums, Dave's a fucking moron. He can't even comprehend the irony of his service in the Armed Forces to supposedly defend freedom, and the conflict with the above statement.

American Freedom.

Its rather rich you calling me a fucking moron, I'm sure there are quite a few people on the boards who feel the same way about you. Would you not agree?


Dave, that you would willingly give up every right to a person merely suspected of doing something wrong makes the fact that they give you a gun and allow you to interact with Iraqis even more horrifying.

When it comes to issues of war, I would give up the rights of everyone of them. Domestically with Americans i feel differently. The key is the word AMERICAN however.



Your own military says this guy was just a driver, had no part in planning, or even knowing, about 9/11 (which is what he was charged with), and was, in fact, scorned by Al Qaeda leadership as a not-true-believer who was just in it for the steady job of being a driver.

-TheE-
You're putting words into my mouth there TheE.
First off, I think its our military... or have you renounced your citizenship?
Now to the point, Do i feel he deserved worse than this, yes, I do. I'm not privy to the information that he did give to interrogators, and I'm fairly sure none of us will be for about 10-50 years depending on the declassification of that information. He's is a criminal for even having associated with people like Osama. Just because somebody is a driver, does not mean they are not guilty of bank robbery as well.

[Sean]

And that would be why he got a 5-1/2 year sentence...

[sst]

and? as I said if it was up to ME he would have gotten longer, but it was not, the court decided... whats your point?

[Sean of the Thread]

well from somebody whos got a history of drunk driving it dosent surprise me you feel that those type of laws should be changed.

I have no history of drunk driving. I do have a history of competing at the highest levels of rifle competition for the USMC.

Unlike you who can't handle a piece of shit a2 without knocking your teeth out.

And I was referring to crack cocaine reform.. but it would take someone with more than a grunt education to derive that from my statement.

[sst]

you're right you've a history of getting away with it by playing the system, my mistake.

So what has your shotting a gun have to do with anything aside from you puffing your chest out?

[sst]

No that's what we call a need for drug law reform.

and this here definitely indicates your referring to crack, I cant believe i missed the obvious signs when i read it the first time

[Sean of the Thread]

You're a dipshit meatstick dave.

You clearly lack common sense.

[sst]

Well, when your beat just sling the personal insults. Good job there big guy.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

My comment at the beginning was just to point out the sort of irony I feel at the situation. Here was a guy who was driving Osama Bin Laden around and he's going to be serving less time then guys who peddle crack on street corners. Priorities, priorities.

If there was more evidence for me to read about (for both sides) I'd probably have a more hard opinion on the subject.. that being said I am glad he got at least some due process.

[Sean of the Thread]

There was no beating involved. I won the moment your opened up your busted grill. The rest was just for shits and giggles.

[sst]

Right, right, and i have a most beautiful smile now, paid for by tax payers like yourself for the rest of my like, its quite pleasant

[crb]

You clearly don't know anything about the case. Hamdan wasn't allowed to choose his own attorney, and was defended by a Pentagon appointed US Navy officer, and his jurors were all Pentagon appointed US military officers. Even in this Kangaroo Court, Hamdan was cleared of the main charge.

Hamdan's attorney, was no terrorist sympathizer, yet even this United States officer said that the rules Bush designed for the military tribunals were explicitly designed to achieve convictions. He also said that the judge allowed evidence that would not have been admitted by any civilian or military US court, because it was obtained through interrogations tainted by coercive tactics - tactics the U.S. government has admitted to. The prosecution offered no solid evidence, only statements made while under "enhanced interrogation techniques." Additionally, the prosecution held all the cards on the evidence, and thus could selectively put forth evidence favorable to them. They had nothing on him.

You know nothing about what happened, only what the media tell you, and even they only got the ideas about the case they had from claims made by the government, with no evidence offered. I bet you think everyone in Guantanamo that was put there by afghan warlords handing over random people to the U.S. as "terrorists" to fill bush's quota are terrorists too, right? I mean, George Bush never lies, after all.

You're a fucking retard.
How fucking douche batman!

I knew all of that, hence the line in my post:



Well... this should prove it to the activists out there that the military won't automatically condemn every defendent.

What the fuck do you think I was talking about you fucking miserable prickless susan?

I stand by my point though, Billy Bob gets caught with those missiles he'd face more time than this guy will end up getting. I suppose he was going to use those missiles to hunt deer, right?

[Sean of the Thread]

Right, right, and i have a most beautiful smile now, paid for by tax payers like yourself for the rest of my like, its quite pleasant

Did they pay for the blisters to be removed from your ass after sitting in a stryker playing eat the cracker with your other meatstick buddies too?

They may have fixed your busted grill but they didn't fix your fugly mug.

[Jaimaltz]

No you didn't expressly claim that Hamden was one such person, but given your defense of him and your criticism of crb, it isn't unreasonable for a reader to conclude that you are implying it with that comment/assumption. Quit playing the innocent. At best you did a muddy job of expressing yourself. At worst you attempted to mislead.

I thought it was pretty clear that I wasn't claiming Hamden was one of them. But I'm not going to play the "gotcha game." With that cleared up, let's move on.


Yes, I do, without a doubt 100% think we should be able to hold these terrorists indefinitely without their "day in court" or their "one phone call."

That freedom is spread in the wake of war, to have freedom catch hold we need to first win the war right in front of us to allow for it to be created. The military are not cops, even though they have been somewhat forced into that role. They capture people of intelligence value for, amazingly, intelligence. Intelligence which can save the lives of other soldiers on the ground. In my opinion the rights of those terrorists come second to the welfare of the soldiers, the welfare Americans over there, and victory. Information should be collected from them by any means available.

A lot of people, including you, have tried to claim that these tactics benefit American's freedom and interests. But that's a very tough argument to make. Let's start with the first one, that it helps American freedom. Well, that one falls on it's face pretty quickly. These abuses ultimately get carried over to apply to U.S. citizens. We've already seen examples of this, where American citizens were subject to "enhanced interrogation techniques," where evidence was gathered to later be used in trial. The Bush administration claims the right to do this. That's not helping the freedom of Americans. I'll even spare you the mention of all the other liberties and freedoms the federal government has presumed to erode over the years all in the name of the "Global War on Terror." (and indeed, quite a few before that too.)

But what about America's interests? We haven't advanced the freedom of Americans through all this, and we certainly haven't enhanced the freedom of Iraqis. We've spent ourselves into a depression with no end in sight on the war on terror. We've greatly decreased our standings with the rest of the world, and added to the chaos in the middle east. Due to all the hatred towards us for the way we presume to run the world and treat foreigners, we've given terrorists legitimate complaints they can use to recruit people with.

I welcome you to explain how our treatment of detainees has in any way helped American freedom or interests?


When it comes to issues of war, I would give up the rights of everyone of them. Domestically with Americans i feel differently. The key is the word AMERICAN however.

And yet these abuses spill over to Americans. It's the slippery slope argument yet again. Our government has claimed it has the authority to do this to American citizens. When will we learn that allowing our government to do terrible things to people eventually gets applied to us? When will we learn that doing terrible things to other people stirs resentment, hatred, and eventual blowback to us?


You have to realize, new person to the forums, Dave's a fucking moron. He can't even comprehend the irony of his service in the Armed Forces to supposedly defend freedom, and the conflict with the above statement.

I'm starting to get that impression.

[Kuyuk]

I'm glad he only got 6 more months, dude got fucked by The Man.


Hope he lives a good life with his fam after this.

K.

[Back]

Well, I sure as hell am never getting into the chauffeur business. Who knows what those crazy rich folk are up to?

[Jaimaltz]

How fucking douche batman!

I knew all of that, hence the line in my post:

Well... this should prove it to the activists out there that the military won't automatically condemn every defendent.

You were talking about how you disagreed with his sentence and I was explaining how it was a kangaroo court with no real evidence against him. You came across as an ignorant prick who didn't understand the case at all. I'll find you your own full quote:


Well... this should prove it to the activists out there that the military won't automatically condemn every defendent. But I think this is bullshit.

I'll fully admit I jumped to conclusions if you actually meant that the whole case was bullshit because of it's failure to adhere to the rules of evidence. However, the rest of your post was making a comparison to Billy bob getting a longer sentence implying you didn't think what Hamdan got was long enough.


I stand by my point though, Billy Bob gets caught with those missiles he'd face more time than this guy will end up getting. I suppose he was going to use those missiles to hunt deer, right?

Who knows? Maybe they'd have some real evidence against them in that case. Wouldn't be particularly hard.

[sst]

Did they pay for the blisters to be removed from your ass after sitting in a stryker playing eat the cracker with your other meatstick buddies too?

They may have fixed your busted grill but they didn't fix your fugly mug.

Oh come on now you can do better than that...

When was it that you deployed?

[sst]

lol, exactly. I noticed you didn't say your bronze star with a V device.

go back to reliving your glory days in the corps while you were in Kosovo and on a shooting range.

EDIT:
Just a FYI Sean2 deleted it but he decided to puff out his chest about getting a bronze star on his hard trip to kosovo

[TheEschaton]

Dave, please, just shut the fuck up. You're a fucking moron. I cannot say it any more simply than that.

[Sean of the Thread]

Do they give ribbons out for washing sand off of strykers every day or is that included in your overseas service ribbon.

Your already chewed asshole uniforms always look 10x worse with those shit ribbons and broadway berets.


And with that I'm done with I R ARMY DAVE. You've totally derailed this thread because of your stupidity and lack of common sense dealing with what was obviously a statement about crack cocaine crimes carrying more severe punishment then people riding around with stinger missles in their back seat.

[Gelston]

I have no history of drunk driving. I do have a history of competing at the highest levels of rifle competition for the USMC.

Unlike you who can't handle a piece of shit a2 without knocking your teeth out.

And I was referring to crack cocaine reform.. but it would take someone with more than a grunt education to derive that from my statement.

PSST.. Hey man, hardly anyone uses the A2 anymore.

[Sean of the Thread]

Dave was using one when he busted his tooth out with it. We've got pictures of him holding it with a jack-o-lantern smile somewhere. They gave the A2 to fuckups obviously.

[Gan]

You have to realize, new person to the forums, Dave's a fucking moron. -TheE-

You have to realize, new person to the forums, TheE constantly lives in his own fantasy land with regards to his socialist viewpoints. There are quite a few people on these boards who would confirm this if asked. :yes:

That being said, in this crazy thread, I'm in agreement with Backlash.

:help:

[Daniel]

No that's what we call a need for drug law reform.

^

Werd.

[Daniel]

American Freedom.



American freedom is freedom for all, or do you so easily forget the ideals that you are supposed to defend?

[sst]

I did not do what I did for Iraqi's. I did what I could for those on the ground next to me Daniel. I have not had an awakening as you have to the plight of the Iraqi's who put themselves in the position they were in by allowing it.

[crb]

You were talking about how you disagreed with his sentence and I was explaining how it was a kangaroo court with no real evidence against him. You came across as an ignorant prick who didn't understand the case at all. I'll find you your own full quote:



I'll fully admit I jumped to conclusions if you actually meant that the whole case was bullshit because of it's failure to adhere to the rules of evidence. However, the rest of your post was making a comparison to Billy bob getting a longer sentence implying you didn't think what Hamdan got was long enough.



Who knows? Maybe they'd have some real evidence against them in that case. Wouldn't be particularly hard.
Just because it is a military tribunal does not make it a kangaroo court. Obviously they are not biased, if they were, he wouldn't be getting off so easy.

And yes, I think he sentence is too low. Those missiles are used to shoot down commercial passenger aircraft. He had them, I don't care if he drove a car with Hitler, Beelzebub, and Caligula in the back seat. Who he worked for is rather beside the point, you can't claim innocence if you've got surface to air missiles on you, obviously you're up to something.

[Audriana]

You clearly lack common sense.Unfortunately, 'common sense' is very different for everybody.

Nobody thinks what they do, think, or say is wrong... or else they wouldn't do that. Everybody does what they believe is right.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Unfortunately, 'common sense' is very different for everybody.

Nobody thinks what they do, think, or say is wrong... or else they wouldn't do that. Everybody does what they believe is right.

:clap:

Clearly I was wrong in believing that there are some social and societal standards for common sense. People who win the Darwin Awards are misunderstood.

[Daniel]

I did not do what I did for Iraqi's. I did what I could for those on the ground next to me Daniel. I have not had an awakening as you have to the plight of the Iraqi's who put themselves in the position they were in by allowing it.

You can save the trite bullshit for someone who wasn't there and hasn't done the things I have.

It's a shame that you haven't had an "awakening" or else you would realize that the long term well being of your brothers in arms are entirely dependent upon the Iraqi people being willing and able to take control of their country.

At the point in which you endorse or condone actions that set back that endeveaor you do not just them, but your entire country a disservice. Your ignorance is the exact reason why the Iraq operation was as fucked up as it was, and thankfully the people who actually fucking matter have had the same "awakening".

[Kembal]

The interesting point is that the material support charge, the one that Hamdan was convicted, was made a crime ex post facto by Congress after Hamdan successfully won on his appeal to the Supreme Court regarding the original tribunal system. So the conviction will be appealed on that basis. (making something a crime ex post facto is unconstitutional)

The military's argument is going to be that the crime was a war crime according to the common law of war. I'm not certain that's going to fly very well when it gets to civilian court. Hell, I'm not sure it'll fly very well when it gets to the military appeals court first.

[Borismere]

You can save the trite bullshit for someone who wasn't there and hasn't done the things I have.

It's a shame that you haven't had an "awakening" or else you would realize that the long term well being of your brothers in arms are entirely dependent upon the Iraqi people being willing and able to take control of their country.

At the point in which you endorse or condone actions that set back that endeveaor you do not just them, but your entire country a disservice. Your ignorance is the exact reason why the Iraq operation was as fucked up as it was, and thankfully the people who actually fucking matter have had the same "awakening".

Although, I agree somewhat with your academic assessment. When you go out each night in your armored humvee pissing in your pants that this might be the night some sniper gets lucky. You're not thinking about the academics, America, Iraq, Bin Laden, or any other shit. You're just thinking about "how the fuck do I save myself and the other humans in this truck who will do me no harm, from being blown up into thousands of little pieces."

I actually agree with Bush to attack Iraq, we need the oil before some other big country decides to take it. This world is not dictated by social norms or morality as would be in the civilian/domestic world. In the game played between countries, it is most true to nature. The bigger fish eats the little fish, there are no such thing as morals. This game is best played by psychopaths and madmen, and gentlemen... winning IS everything.

[sst]

You can save the trite bullshit for someone who wasn't there and hasn't done the things I have.

It's a shame that you haven't had an "awakening" or else you would realize that the long term well being of your brothers in arms are entirely dependent upon the Iraqi people being willing and able to take control of their country.

At the point in which you endorse or condone actions that set back that endeveaor you do not just them, but your entire country a disservice. Your ignorance is the exact reason why the Iraq operation was as fucked up as it was, and thankfully the people who actually fucking matter have had the same "awakening".

... How is it that the iraqi's once control of their country is given to them will treat the prisoners... Have you ever sat in on interrogation with the IP's or IA? Take my word on this, nothing we do is anything compared to how they treat their own.

I'm not a hajji hugger like you are Daniel. They allowed themselves to be pushed around by the thugs in JAM and AQIZ. It took thousands upon thousands of needless deaths and violence before they finally had the balls to defend themselves.

In the end though, I think you and I just feel differently about the strength of will of Iraqi people in general. You give them a lot more credit than I do "my" experiences over there were different, we did different things in different places. The way I want things there to be fall in line with how you view things. The way they are in my opinion is far different.

[Daniel]

Although, I agree somewhat with your academic assessment. When you go out each night in your armored humvee pissing in your pants that this might be the night some sniper gets lucky. You're not thinking about the academics, America, Iraq, Bin Laden, or any other shit. You're just thinking about "how the fuck do I save myself and the other humans in this truck who will do me no harm, from being blown up into thousands of little pieces."

Thanks for the lesson. I was in 1\25 INF for the Battle of Fallujah and Mosul and spent 7 months in a special ops task force hunting HVTs. What unit were you in?

[Daniel]

... How is it that the iraqi's once control of their country is given to them will treat the prisoners... Have you ever sat in on interrogation with the IP's or IA? Take my word on this, nothing we do is anything compared to how they treat their own.

I'm not a hajji hugger like you are Daniel. They allowed themselves to be pushed around by the thugs in JAM and AQIZ. It took thousands upon thousands of needless deaths and violence before they finally had the balls to defend themselves.

In the end though, I think you and I just feel differently about the strength of will of Iraqi people in general. You give them a lot more credit than I do "my" experiences over there were different, we did different things in different places. The way I want things there to be fall in line with how you view things. The way they are in my opinion is far different.


Dave, you know the taskforce I was in and you know the reputation we had. So, please save yourself the trouble of going "They're so much worse than us". I know the consequences of warfare and I know the sacrifices and actions you must take to win a war. So please STFU.

That doesn't mitigate the responsibility of maintaing your humanity and it sure as fuck doesn't mitigate the responsibility of ensuring that the people you are acting against are the people you should be acting against.

It also doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't be doing things that only protract and make the situation worse. That's not helping your buddies and it definitely doesn't help your country.

[Parkbandit]

Thanks for the lesson. I was in 1\25 INF for the Battle of Fallujah and Mosul and spent 7 months in a special ops task force hunting HVTs. What unit were you in?

OMG DID U USED TO POST AS RANGER1??? WUZ THAT U!?!??

[Daniel]

Yea I did. What's your point?