Sunfist Society

[Lord Orbstar]

Has anyone tried this as an older Rogue? I am a 56 Rogue dual wielding very nice weapons. I am currently Voln, which i only use for symbol of need...

Can you hide and ambush your way through a camp?

I know they just made some changes to the Sunfist society to make it easier and more profitable.

Change is a scary thing and not something i would jump into without hearing your opinions and safely following the herd. I dont even know how "hard" it is to master this new society. CoL and Voln...not so hard.


Thank you for your pearls of Wisdom. Wish they had a "Society Folder" here.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Spelltank, spelltank, spelltank.

I -really- hope you like hunting a lot, otherwise this society probably isn't for you.

[The Ponzzz]

I'm 89, soloing them as a magic rogue. I self cast up to 414. I'm also 3x dodge and wear aug chain. I do hide, for an amush, but I can't stay hidden worth shit from guards. It's tough, a lot tougher now than when it was first released.

If I joined it now and not then, I don't think I would have gone through with it. I do take down warcamps currently for the loot changes, but I haven't found anything "worth" my time. Even though I do like the sigils, grimswarm are fierce.

[Stretch]

There are a bunch of old threads with examples of squares and Sunfist, but I'm too lazy to dig them up.

It rocks at cap for people who don't have good gear, and it's nice to always have a local hunting spot. If you already have good equipment, CoL is mechanically superior.

[Warriorbird]

It's probably best for Wizards and Warriors ultimately.

Rogues have a rough time unless they're really non standard.

[The Ponzzz]

It's probably best for Wizards and Warriors ultimately.

Rogues have a rough time unless they're really non standard.

Yea, Conan summed it up pretty well here. If you're a fucking mutant freak rogue, you will enjoy it.

[Warriorbird]

Ondreian, for example, kicks unbelievable ass at warcamps. He's not a Sunfist member though. His gear's more than nice enough as it is.

[Deathravin]

36 Ranged rogue w/ 2x dodge and MBP
I own warcamps IF and ONLY IF I have haste

[AnticorRifling]

36 Ranged rogue w/ 2x dodge and MBP
I own warcamps IF and ONLY IF I have haste

L2cast haste scrub.

[Lord Orbstar]

I use a 5x ECW falchion and a god auction Immolator in my off hand and wear crappy unpadded brigandine currently. I am a magical rogue with spells up to Ewave. I used to concentrate on picking and wear metal breastplate, but swapped over to magical rogue to try it out (ala Jesh).

I miss picking :(

I will try to find some of these old posts referenced above, but there are none visible now in the forums.

[waywardgs]

Spellrogue here also, dual wielding with 30 ranks of mstrike... I love grimswarming, but have no interest in joining GoS. Get a few twc rogues with fast weapons, it's like the blades of a lawnmower. Very fun.

[NocturnalRob]

I miss picking :(


this is the only reason i can't make the switch. i'm still viable at 57, but that's with a 10x waraxe and some other goodies.

the way my bard runs through pyros, i couldn't give up the lockpicking. need to be able to open quickly.

and i still haven't mastered LM yet...maybe next year?

[Deathravin]

Spellrogue here also, dual wielding with 30 ranks of mstrike... I love grimswarming, but have no interest in joining GoS. Get a few twc rogues with fast weapons, it's like the blades of a lawnmower. Very fun.

Haste FTW

My wizard friend is a halfling with a claid - he hits them for the legs more than anything
I aim for the eyes...

Things are just wasted. It gets boring from the lack of critters.

[Dothstar's_Seven]

I use a 5x ECW falchion and a god auction Immolator in my off hand and wear crappy unpadded brigandine currently.

Any chance you want to sell that immolator?

[Lord Orbstar]

well...it is pretty expensive but i DO need some nice armor... offer?

[Xeromist]

I tried out a warcamp the other day for the first time and didn't run into too many problems. I just made sure to stay hidden the majority of the time. I 3x in stalking/hiding and used shadow mastery to sneak until I could find a peripheral room with no more than 2 grimswarm. I have very unimpressive gear. As a human, I was able to one-shot them with neckshots by falchion. Once you gain control over a room you can generally ambush them as they trickle in until you start to get swarmed. Then it was back to sneaking around until the numbers in one of the corner rooms dwindled...rinse, repeat.

I'm sure this method would drive a lot of people nuts since there was a considerable amount of time spent in hiding and waiting for the swarms to thin out. Worked well for me, though! I also made sure to bring plenty of ambrominas leaf--legs are important for sneaking and staying hidden.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. Special Forcesing it is a good tactic for most people solo...if somewhat annoying.

[DaCapn]

I'm thinking of going Sunfist as a rogue too and was wondering what people think is a good amount of mana to have?

[BigWorm]

I'm thinking of going Sunfist as a rogue too and was wondering what people think is a good amount of mana to have?

Sunfist burns through mana big time. It's very useful to have the banes up in warcamps and as a rogue focus is important to have for TD and all of those sigils only last 1 minute each which sucks. I have 40 ranks at cap which is a pretty good amount, though you will be able to do okay will less than that. I rarely run into mana issues any more but I don't use major bane since I mastered.

[DaCapn]

Aren't minor protection, focus, and major protection all stackable up to 3 minutes? Not that that necessarily helps because you have to just regen the mana/stamina again.

I think I'd end up with an overall bonus over CoL. I'm not too keen on losing sign of staunching and healing, but there's sigils of mending and healing. I'll lose 15 AS & DS if just using the sigils of defense/offense, but there's plenty of other cool abilities. Especially since I basically don't really use any of the other CoL signs.

Question about Sigil of Determination: It sounds like this circumvents the effects of level 2 wounds? This alone would be a great boon for level 2 leg injuries and sneaking. But does it allow you to loot/search creatures despite a level 2 head wound?

Sigil of Escape: It pops your muscles when you use it for emergency teleportation. Do they prevent you from using with less than 75 stamina in this case or is it indifferent to that pop? I could see this being either way. How much does anyone end up using this if they're mastered in stun maneuvers?

[Audriana]

Any time my weapon's out, I have a script to keep up: Concentration, Mending, Offense, Major Bane, and Resolve. I have enough Stamina and MP to keep them up forever (and I only have 30 MP).
Any time my Mana is under 10 and my stamina is over 60, it does sigil power.
Any time my Health is under 50% and I have enough stamina and mana, it does sigil health.

Staunching? Who cares, Have a sack full of herbs, and a script that can use them - 3 seconds for any herb, I can heal down myself from all 3s to all 0 scars in 4 minutes - 78 seconds if I'm hasted. And I never have all 3s.

Healing? Eh... sigil health is alright, not great but alright... Mending keeps you pretty well infused with blood to rebound pretty quick.

Sigil Determination, what's the point if I can just heal myself down with herb usually in 20-30 seconds?

Sigil Escape: Not sure I've ever used it. I think I did once just to see what it did. I don't get into sticky spots often; I hate putting people out in Plat, and if you get a reputation for it somebody (**COUGHdeediCOUGH**) will badmouth you and get your loaner weapon taken away.

[DaCapn]

How's a rogue to deal with these trolls? The clerics and witches and sometimes rangers I'm able to leg then behead from hiding but the seasoned rangers and the warriors I don't have a chance in keeping them prone long enough. They just stand and regen right away. Sometimes I'm able to sweep, hide, behead but I can barely squeak it out in time and I'm burning through stamina pretty quickly.

[Fallen]

If the rogue hurls, those fire vials would be an excellent way to deal with them.

[DaCapn]

Sword and board... I'm thinking of pulling a 4x fire flaring short sword from my locker in place of my 6x handaxe. Maybe the faster swings and the fire damage will allow me to do this quicker? It's only one second off the RT but it may make a difference.

[m444w]

Don't bother legging, just aim for the head with a handaxe, or neck with a shortsword. If you don't crit kill on the first swing, chose a different target do it doesn't default to the chest

[DaCapn]

I should have mentioned this earlier: This is with a halfling.

I tried just ambushing in the open for the abdomen repeatedly and eventually they were just able to heal back up to no damage.

[Back]

Halflings should go for knees. Thats what Cespin told me years ago. Crazy bugger.

[DaCapn]

Is there something special about the knees here or are you just being a wise-acre?

[Back]

I’m being honest. I’ve never played a halfling but it makes sense.

[DaCapn]

Regarding Sunfist tasks where you have to rescue officials captured in convoys who are being held in warcamps: Can you find the official in any warcamp?

[Widgets]

All the way north, locked up in a hut in camp are where the officials are kept...

[DaCapn]

I was asking if you can find them in any warcamp, not where in a warcamp. Like do you have to do one of the warcamps in the immediate area or what?

[Widgets]

I was asking if you can find them in any warcamp, not where in a warcamp. Like do you have to do one of the warcamps in the immediate area or what?

Oh sorry. Any warcamp works. So long as no one else has entered and removed him already from it..

[DaCapn]

I'm assuming you can't just sneak/run in there? Do you pretty much have to waste the warcamp if you want to get him out of there?

[Widgets]

I'm assuming you can't just sneak/run in there? Do you pretty much have to waste the warcamp if you want to get him out of there?

Nope, you can easily reach him without killing a single Grimswarm if you want. That's what I used to do if I just wanted the Task Points.

On a semi off-topic tangent, Grimswarm Warcamps are pretty damn easy for a Rogue to Solo. So far Widgets is having no trouble with the 102 filled one he just started working on.

We'll see if I can raze it all by my gnomish self. If so, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel for me after all

[Stretch]

It's slow and tedious, but if you're worried about swarming / dying and you need to raze a camp, here's a pretty safe way to do it:

1) You'll need to either be able to pick or have found a crude bone key

2) Set off the alarm, then make your way to the hut with the chest

3) Unlock / open the chest (I think it's 10 RT to open, -1 RT for every 5 STR bonus)

4) Grimswarm will close the chest before attacking

5) Grimswarm outside can't go into the hut, but Grimswarm in the hut will follow you outside

[Widgets]

It's slow and tedious, but if you're worried about swarming / dying and you need to raze a camp, here's a pretty safe way to do it:

1) You'll need to either be able to pick or have found a crude bone key

2) Set off the alarm, then make your way to the hut with the chest

3) Unlock / open the chest (I think it's 10 RT to open, -1 RT for every 5 STR bonus)

4) Grimswarm will close the chest before attacking

5) Grimswarm outside can't go into the hut, but Grimswarm in the hut will follow you outside

I haven't bothered with that method yet, since I'm gonna see how long it takes me to clear an entire camp devoid of Grim...So far the one I'm at started at I think 102, and is now likely at around 50 or so, with two rests of my mind in between.

I'm curious though Stretch, as to how that's an easy way to raze a camp...Since you have to kill every Grim in the camp first anyways, am I right?

[Stretch]

It was more useful before they tweaked the gen rate substantially down. It was more of a pain in the ass at cap, since pretty much any kind of Grimswarm except rangers and wizards could badly mess up a rogue.

Picking them off in the hut one or two at a time while not allowing them to attack (via the open chest method) was the only way I could clean out camps without relying on outside spells or groups. Even now it's pretty handy to be able to keep them occupied repeatedly opening / closing the loot chest so they don't attack. It won't work for weaker races; you basically need at least 40 STR bonus to keep two Grimswarm occupied and still be able to attack.

[Widgets]

It was more useful before they tweaked the gen rate substantially down. It was more of a pain in the ass at cap, since pretty much any kind of Grimswarm except rangers and wizards could badly mess up a rogue.

Picking them off in the hut one or two at a time while not allowing them to attack (via the open chest method) was the only way I could clean out camps without relying on outside spells or groups. Even now it's pretty handy to be able to keep them occupied repeatedly opening / closing the loot chest so they don't attack. It won't work for weaker races; you basically need at least 40 STR bonus to keep two Grimswarm occupied and still be able to attack.

Gotcha, I see what ya mean now. Indeed, it takes me 9 seconds to open up the chest, so it's not really beneficial to me in doing that. Only thing I can really do is camp out inside the Hut, and just wait for Grim to arrive if need be.

Right now sniping has sufficed well enough with my bolts. So, we'll see how it goes. Also managed to snag two chests from the camp, and documents I needed for my task etc

[DaCapn]

I don't think I'd consider it to be pretty damn easy. Maybe sniping makes it a lot easier. I don't have much of a hard time remaining in hiding but I don't have as easy of a time in making headshots since I need to leg them first.

I feel like my approach is fine, just dancing around until I can fight just a couple at a time. I end up with like 4 creatures incapacitated in a room sometimes because a new fresh creature keeps on coming in. And incapacitated creatures seem to count towards the imposed RT in room movement and maybe add to the DS pushdown for multiple opponents. If they do either, that's pretty crappy.

I've been able to do the escort task twice successfully but really, I consider that when I go into a warcamp it's just a matter of time before I get my ass handed to me. Usually, I'm doing this with a full wizard spellup and a couple times with the assistance of ranger spells and the minor spirit defense spells. Is the warcamp a "permanent instance" for you or is there a timeline where creatures heal, re-spawn, etc?

[Widgets]

I don't think I'd consider it to be pretty damn easy. Maybe sniping makes it a lot easier. I don't have much of a hard time remaining in hiding but I don't have as easy of a time in making headshots since I need to leg them first.

I feel like my approach is fine, just dancing around until I can fight just a couple at a time. I end up with like 4 creatures incapacitated in a room sometimes because a new fresh creature keeps on coming in. And incapacitated creatures seem to count towards the imposed RT in room movement and maybe add to the DS pushdown for multiple opponents. If they do either, that's pretty crappy.

I've been able to do the escort task twice successfully but really, I consider that when I go into a warcamp it's just a matter of time before I get my ass handed to me. Usually, I'm doing this with a full wizard spellup and a couple times with the assistance of ranger spells and the minor spirit defense spells. Is the warcamp a "permanent instance" for you or is there a timeline where creatures heal, re-spawn, etc?

Creatures do re-gen in Warcamps, however that amount was reduced recently as they were genning way too quick while people were resting trying to raze them. I'm not sure if they re-heal or not, I don't think so but I could be wrong since I think the camps also reset the Grimswarm after a certain period of time away.

[Warriorbird]

Trolls obviously heal much better than everybody else. I've gone back into a camp I've berserked in and still found plenty of maimed orcs. Their Empaths do work though.

[Widgets]

Trolls obviously heal much better than everybody else. I've gone back into a camp I've berserked in and still found plenty of maimed orcs. Their Empaths do work though.

Indeed, best bet for any rogue who is soloing a camp, is to take out an Orc Camp. However, The one I razed was a Giant so it wasn't that bad...Just takes a bit to kill the bastards.

[m444w]

What build are you DaCapn... as a halfling, if you happen to be TWC, I advocate hamstring + ambush neck (total 8 seconds with a shortsword) versus hide + ambush right leg + hide + ambush head (14 seconds, if you master smastery and shortsword) and trolls will probably heal their legs and stand up before you ambush them. Or pick up ewave, insta-prone.

[DaCapn]

I'm a pretty standard ambushing sword and board halfling with 2.5x picking.
Equipment: 7x MBP, 6x handaxe, 6x buckler
Cmans: surge of strength, smastery, and dirtkick, also 40 ranks in sweep

Are you talking about open-ambush with hamstring?

Edit: BTW, this is a giant warcamp I'm messing with. No way I'm going to even try a troll warcamp. I bit it like 5 times yesterday doing these ones alone. Typically the maneuvers don't get me too bad. It's usually their ewaving and webbing. Got vaporized twice.

[m444w]

Giants. That's your problem. And yes, open ambush with hamstring, but you're using one weapon, and an axe (hamstring sucks with axes). Not going to work for you realistically.

[DaCapn]

How are giants the problem? Should orcs be that much easier for some reason?

[m444w]

yes, orcs are less crit/stun resistant (though all grimswarm are somewhat resistant to both especially the physical builds). Also, orcs are smaller so easier for some manuevers to work.

[DaCapn]

Maybe I'd be able to switch down to short sword and shave off 2 seconds. All that's left is finding an orc camp near Icemule... hmm...

[Warriorbird]

Friends don't let friends do giant camps.