Semidux

[Anebriated]

Anyone familiar with the differences between Semidux and regular Redux? Or know the actual formula for semidux?

[Halfsilver]

It's exactly the same as redux, except not as much.

We only get 10-15% maximum where squares get like 40-50%. ( i dunno if that's accurate, just an example)

I still havn't been able to get semidux at 31, and I'm doubled in two different weapon classes. I dunno how to get it.

- D

[Czeska]

According to Tsoran's sheet, Czeska (bard) should have some redux (semidux, wtf ever) at 41. Course according to said sheet my rogue should have it now. And she doesn't. So who knows.
Note: NOT Tsoran bashing, I'd be babbling my head off if not for that sheet.

[Anebriated]

Yea, but if you use the same formula as in GS3 with the updated skills(ie PT being the only primary skill) and add in the spell penalty its nearly impossible to get it, unless i did something wrong...

[Parkbandit]

Isn't it based on skills and not class? A ranger who studies only the physical arts can get just as much as a warrior who trained in the exact same things.. right?

Not sure why anyone would ever do that, but I thought that the formula was the same.

[Halfsilver]

No, it's different.

A semi can get redux with 1x in spells. Or so I hear.

Semidux is different in that allows for some magic training.

[Anebriated]

Tsoran's spreadsheet does not take semidux into effect. I tried all sorts of training paths but unless i took out my spell training altogether it would not calculate it. Granted his spreadsheet uses the GS3 version of redux anyway...

[Soulpieced]

The only way to guarantee yourself a little redux is to be 1x or higher in PT.

[Czeska]

Soulpieced, do you know when you got some redux? Semidux? Whateverthehell you wanna call it?

[Halfsilver]

Soulpieced,

So 1x'ing in PT will earn you semidux, regardless of other training? 1x spells?

and at what train should a semi look for it?

I had semi dux with my ranger at lvl 30. At lvl 33 its somewhere between 7-10%

[Halfsilver]

What'd you have in the way of spell and magic training, Ranger?

Originally posted by Halfsilver
What'd you have in the way of spell and magic training, Ranger?

36 spells currently and 17 of MIU and AS, 24 ranks MS.

[Halfsilver]

If you don't mind me asking, Ranger, how'd you achieve that?

I'm at 32, doubled in two weapon classes, singled in pt, singled in spells...and still...[Current skills bonus is insufficient to gain DF reduction.]

[Bobmuhthol]

Weapon classes weigh in as much as anything else, other than PF. Doubling in two weapon classes but not training in shield, armor, climbing, swimming, multi-opponent, etc. isn't going to help you very much.

[Anebriated]

Im at 1x PT, 2x in 2 weapons, 1x armor, 15 ranks of climb and 5 of swim. also 1x spell and 1x Spirit Mana Crontrol. So that is 35/55/70, i think. I just want to know how much the spells and such bring me down.

[Bobmuhthol]

I've never heard of semis getting a special redux formula, but the redux formula is like you lose 1% per spell more than 1 spell per 20 levels.

[Czeska]

Damage Reduction (REDUX)


Damage Reduction (REDUX) is the inherent ability of a character to gain resistance to damage caused by melee attacks through training in certain physical skills.
The amount of Damage Reduction that a character receives is based on primary, secondary, and tertiary skills. All three sets of skills are used to determine the overall reduction in the amount of damage that is inflicted upon the targeted character.

Spending time studying spells reduces a character’s focus on the physical aspects of combat, and reduces the benefits from Damage Reduction. Characters with two or more spells known per level will not have Damage Reduction.


Primary skill: Physical Training


Secondary skills: Two Weapon Combat, Armor Use, Shield Use, Combat Maneuvers, Multi-Opponent Combat, Dodge, Ambushing


Tertiary skills: All weapon skills

[Bobmuhthol]

That doesn't help.

We already know pures don't get redux.

[Czeska]

Happy for you Bob.

That was more a confirmation of why the 2x in 2 weapons isn't super effective.

You have a nice day, too.

[Parkbandit]

I still haven't seen anyone disprove my post that semi-redux and redux are calculated the same way.

A ranger that is trained EXACTLY the same way as a warrior should have the same exact redux... no?

Little clarification on this Bob?

PS- Yes, it's your fever. :smug:

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by Parkbandit]

[Czeska]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I still haven't seen anyone disprove my post that semi-redux and redux are calculated the same way.

A ranger that is trained EXACTLY the same way as a ranger should have the same exact redux... no?

Little clarification on this Bob?

Could be my fever, but...

Do you mean a ranger trained the same as a warrior?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<A ranger that is trained EXACTLY the same way as a warrior should have the same exact redux... no?>>

That's correct. There is no semi-redux formula.

That would be overpowering semis, first of all, and it would make it easier for a semi to acquire redux than a square which is just not going to happen while I'm playing.

Redux is redux, there's one formula, and nobody knows it except GM's and people who can keep secrets.

(at level 33), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Name | Bonus Ranks Goals Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 130 35 35
Shield Use.........................| 126 33 33
Combat Maneuvers...................| 90 20 20
Edged Weapons......................| 169 69 69
Brawling...........................| 169 69 69
Physical Fitness...................| 144 44 44
Dodging............................| 128 34 34
Arcane Symbols.....................| 78 17 17
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17 17
Harness Power......................| 128 34 34
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24 24
Perception.........................| 25 5 5
Climbing...........................| 40 8 8
Swimming...........................| 15 3 3

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 3 3
Ranger.............................| 33 33
Training Points: 1 Phy 15 Mnt

[Halfsilver]

Ranger, your ranger is godly.

I don't understand how you fit all that stuff in.

[Snapp]

He doesn't have a lot of normal ranger stuff, that's how. No hiding, barely any perception, no first aid, survival, etc.. I think it's a unique spin on it.

Yep, exactly. Ambush is simply too exspensive at 3\3 for a marginal benefit...no ambush no sense in learning hiding. I won't post this on the official boards but Voln Fu is by a Ranger's boon. They can 2x it and Mobility adds about 20+ to it. (I haven't discerned if added ranger ranks adds to it yet) My MB is higher than warriors who are about 10+ levels above me. I can hunt about oh..30 levels above my head with Voln fu.

Its not very hard to find undead creatures now adays since everything is compressed, and if you don't want to its too easy to a living creature to the ground and hit em with a spike or two, or simply pull out a katar or falchion and whack away at em.

As for first aid and survival. To each his own, you can probaly drop alot of the miu\mana share from my plan and squeeze it in easy, but i said fuck that. I'm not gonna be 2x survival or 1x each just so i can skin. Its good money but i rarely if ever cash hunt because its mind numbingly boring. But if thats your thing you can easily fit it in there without hurting the "Core regimen".

I forgot i added a couple extra spells last training and my redux actually dropped, but i'm more than happy with it now. I have like a 0% chance of dying hunting well above my head unless its a caster 8+ levels. When i get 640, i'm gonna drop spells down to 1x. I'd then proably go for 120, then back up the 600's for the extra mobility bonus but it'll be away before i hit 40 let alone, 60+.

[Latrinsorm]

Bob, they changed the redux skills. C/S are once again next to pointless to obtain. Weapon skills are not equal to everything else.

And here I thought I was illiterate. :D

[Stunseed]

Anyone have a redux calculator by chance? I know my Ranger has it, and has had it for about 13 trains.

Love you Jolena!

[Bobmuhthol]

There's no known formula, so no redux calculator.

You can, however, go get the shit beaten out of you and test the redux yourself.

http://www.xygon.net

[Edaarin]

Edaarin in GSIII post reallocation was in full plate with somewhere in the neighborhood of 72%, compared to torso chain and around 30% redux now. I die less than I did in III, because of the DS I can generate and the new EBP system does what it was meant to do.

Then again, if you have no idea how to hunt or just sit there in a room of critters and swing away, I can see why you would be pissed at the drop in redux. From testing with Porcell and a few other people in Beta, I think redux is effectively capped at about 50%.

There was a GM post somewhere that said in III semidux would max out at something like 50% (at the level cap). I'd expect that a physically oriented semi could expect to see at most 25-30% by the time they hit 100.

[Czeska]

Originally posted by RangerD1
http://www.xygon.net

Can someone explain how this works please.. Trylia's the first character I have had that has redux (I assume, since I get no message coming out of the inn, that she has SOME). And I have no clue how much or how to figure it out.

Get hit, then input the data

[Anebriated]

Ranger, you are right on with the Voln FU, Its the only reason i have both archery and brawling still. At 34 trains i was killing Soul Golems in Teras. Im down to singled in Brawl and its still effective, only lost some 40 MB. I made sacrafices to my archery just to add it in but overall i think its worthwhile...

[Czeska]

I took my rogue hunting last night and let her get hit a few times. Put the #s into Xygon's site.
According to those calculations I have ...
27%
54%
0.28 %

help?

[StrayRogue]

16% for my lvl 31 rogue.

[Czeska]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
16% for my lvl 31 rogue.

Cool. how the <bleep> do you get that number.

[StrayRogue]

Post a log of you getting hit. I need to know your armor and if its padded or not, and I'll work it out for you.

[Czeska]

Thanks, will do. Can't log on now, I'm at work, but tonight.
And if you can tell me HOW you figure it out, that'd be appreciated too.

[Latrinsorm]

You get hit for X damage and a cool crit, say "Dislocated knee!" or whatever. There's also the endroll, which is great. You have to know what kind of weapon you're being hit with, which you can deduce (usually) from AvD's (obviously you need to know what armor you're in as well).

Subtract 100 from the endroll. This is called the Success Margin.

Get a table of crits. Find the crit you got hit with. Subtract the crit damage from the X damage you received. This is Raw Damage.

Go into Excel or Works or some kind of spreadsheet program (you can also use a calculator). Your Raw Damage should be smaller than the Success Margin. If it isn't, something's messed up. Find the range of decimels that, when multiplied by the Success Margin, give you your Raw Damage. You don't need to go past thousandths (so you can try .121, but not .1215) while doing so.

The decimel is the Damage Factor you were hit with. Compare to the usual Damage Factor of the weapon on your armor (which you can find in the .qrs script). If you have DFRedux, yours should be lower than the listed value.

I don't know how one can work padding/weighting into the equation nowadays with the randomized weighting. Maybe Stray does.

[StrayRogue]

Just show me a clip of you getting hit and I'll work it out. Tell me what armor you're wearing too, and if its padded (if it is, what type of padding, and how much).

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

I don't know how one can work padding/weighting into the equation nowadays with the randomized weighting. Maybe Stray does.

Damage padding is the only padding that effects the Redux calculations. Crit padding just makes it a whole lot more difficult to find out the golden number.