Weed Warriors or How I Learned to Smush Things

[Drazaan]

Hi fellow rangers,
I've been thinking of rolling a ranger that utilizes two-handed weapons. My initial plan was to focus on an ambushing two-handed weapon style. It can be done, but it's a pretty TP intense path.

My original build idea was something close to this:

2x THW
1x CM
1x Dodge
1x PT
1x Armor (until I'm wearing something fancy)
1x S&H
1x Ambush
1.5x Perception
1x HP
1x Spell Research

I began to think maybe ambushing isn't worth the additional training cost when there are other skills I'd like to incorporate into my character. Would dropping Ambushing and S&H skills be viable? The part I'm iffy about is that I wouldn't be able to fully utilize some of the neater ranger spells, making me almost wonder why I don't just roll a warrior or rogue to do this.

The other concept that crossed my mind was ambushing with a two-handed weapon from the open. Is that far off base or a little silly?

I'm just wanting to hear a bit from people who have gone any two-handed weapon route (or thought about it) and how they made it work. Thanks for listening and any responses.
-Eric, player of a future ranger

P.S. I may come back to haunt the forums about stat placement, but I figure I should focus on the character's professional path right now.

[Stunseed]

Going in the open will be tough for a bit, but once redux is a factor you'll be fine.

Drew/Chivalrous is a big proponent of THW on the board, but he took a Chapelle escape to South Africa. I don't remember his training plan off the top of my head.

I have singled in stalk/hide from 0 to 92 and if you choose creatures wisely, you'll be fine. 608 + THW = splat.

[thefarmer]

I skimped on spells and HP to get the TP's I needed to get 2x hide. Other than that, mine was similiar. I don't think ambushing from the open plays to what strengths a ranger has, if you want a build like that, maybe be a magical 2hd rogue. Which also is very nice.

[Drazaan]

Stunseed - Redux and heavily on the melee physical side is a key element of this training path, so I'm pretty relieved to hear that 1x S&H has a chance with some creatures out there. I guess the trick is find all the blind and slow swinging ones. Good suggestion about hitting up Drew, I've always enjoyed how he plays Chiv.

Farmer - I fall along the line of thinking if I'm playing a ranger, I need to play to their strengths to a degree. I think I there's a chance I may be able to squeeze in 1.5x S&H after a few levels and eventually work towards 2x if I find 1x S&H isn't cutting it.

1.5x Perception should be enough to aim with generally? I'd be plenty happy with legs and heads over aiming for right eyes.
-Eric, player of a future ranger

[Stunseed]

Yes, 1.5x is plenty acceptable.

[Paradii]

Armor Use..........................| 160 60
Combat Maneuvers...................| 161 61
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 220 120
Brawling...........................| 111 27
Ambush.............................| 161 61
Physical Fitness...................| 161 61
Dodging............................| 154 54
Magic Item Use.....................| 35 7
Harness Power......................| 150 50
Spirit Mana Control................| 90 20
Survival...........................| 102 24
Stalking and Hiding................| 190 90
Perception.........................| 161 61
Climbing...........................| 102 24
Swimming...........................| 102 24

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 41



There's my current training plan at 60. Just take out the brawling and throw in a few more dodge ranks or bring ambush over 1x and its a pretty solid build. MOC would be nice but its pretty hard to fit in.

[Mtenda]

My ranger is built for two handed ambushing. At level 35 he has

30 ranks of armor
20 ranks of dodge
35 ranks of CM
70 ranks of THW
70 ranks of ambush
35 ranks of PT
35 ranks of HP
70 ranks of hide
35 ranks of perception
18 ranks of ranger spells
7 ranks of minor spirit spells

He typically hunts with a wizard spellup and does very well. CM points are spent on shadow mastery. Planning on getting him some MIU for haste imbeds. So yeah he is pretty much a magical rogue with ranger magic. Works well as both a support character for my main (a rogue with no spirit magic) and can work independently.

[Some Rogue]

1.5x Perception should be enough to aim with generally? I'd be plenty happy with legs and heads over aiming for right eyes.
-Eric, player of a future ranger

Perception plays no role in aiming melee weapons.

[Paradii]

And I have no problems being 1x in ambush and aiming larger weapons. Of course, I am swinging a flamberge which isnt too big

[Mtenda]

Perception plays no role in aiming melee weapons.

If you are ambushing from hiding it's ambush and perception. From the open it's ambush and CM.

[Some Rogue]

If you are ambushing from hiding it's ambush and perception. From the open it's ambush and CM.

Wrong.

This was just posted about on the rogue forums. Ildran stated plainly that from hiding, it's ambush only and from the open it's ambush and CM.

[Some Rogue]

Perception hasn't ever helped with aiming melee weapons (though it does help with aiming ranged weapons). The only skills involved have been Ambush and Combat Maneuvers since the AMBUSH verb was created.

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice


http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=28&topic=14&message=11313


Aiming for melee weapons doesn't use Perception. It uses Ambush ranks if attacking from hiding, or both Ambush and CM ranks if attacking from the open. - Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice


http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=28&topic=14&message=11311

[Mtenda]

Wow. This is news to me. And a lot of others apparently. I actually thought that it was the exact opposite. That it did factor into melee and not into ranged. Thanks for pointing that out. I can probably free up some MTP's now.

[Drazaan]

That's news to me too, but I've very glad I learned that about perception now instead of later on. I recall having heard that for a long time, it must be a deeply rooted misconception (A little bit deeper than my early belief of waving cheese in the catacombs to make rats appear).

I guess that leaves me room to double in hiding or go the Stunseed route and place those points somewhere else to boost my physical skills.

Thanks for offering up your training regiment and a little about how it works Mtenda.

As far as stat placement, I was thinking something along the lines of:

Level 0 Sylvankind Ranger

STR 80
CON 47
DEX 88
AGL 70
DIS 70
AUR 70
LOG 55
INT 90
WIS 70
INF 20

I've crunched numbers in Tsoran's spreadsheet and it seems that I can't really get an ambush RT below 7 seconds for a claidhmore no matter what my stats are. Is this pretty true excluding Haste and other outside items/spells? Beyond that, is there any tragic flaws in my stat placement?

Thanks again for the all responses.
-Eric, player of a future ranger

[Stunseed]

You should be shot for such a low logic. Everyone here thinks it's no biggie but it affects you in two ways.

1. Per pulse experience learned.
2. Maximum capacity of experience in mind.

You will end up playing thousands of hours more with a weak logic.

[Mtenda]

Now someone on the officials is saying that perception contributes to DS pushdown when ambushing from hiding. So far this is unconfirmed. But there is definitely official documentation out there that says perception helps with aiming.

This is from play.net

In combat, the Perception skill provides a bonus to strike at an AIMed body location on a specified target.

That combined with the fact that people have been saying it on the official boards for years uncorrected makes me wonder if this particular GM is just mistaken. It could happen. At any rate, I'm not gonna rush out and drop the perception ranks of all my ambushers just yet.

[Mtenda]

If it does turn out that perception helps with DS pushdown then it becomes even more important in my mind. For a rogue or an ambushing ranger, that is like extra AS.

[Some Rogue]

Now someone on the officials is saying that perception contributes to DS pushdown when ambushing from hiding.

Ildran responded that perception of the target is the only thing that matters there, not the attacker.



So far this is unconfirmed. But there is definitely official documentation out there that says perception helps with aiming.

This is from play.net

In combat, the Perception skill provides a bonus to strike at an AIMed body location on a specified target.

That combined with the fact that people have been saying it on the official boards for years uncorrected makes me wonder if this particular GM is just mistaken. It could happen. At any rate, I'm not gonna rush out and drop the perception ranks of all my ambushers just yet. The experience thing is no big deal to me personally. I've always trained perception with ambush in mind.

Hehe, the officials docs are full of errors and incomplete info. It's almost worthless too.

[Fallen]

It really is worthless. Krakiipedia isn't much better, but atleast if something is wrong, it can be updated immediately, instead of STAYING wrong for years.

[Mtenda]

That's news to me too, but I've very glad I learned that about perception now instead of later on. I recall having heard that for a long time, it must be a deeply rooted misconception (A little bit deeper than my early belief of waving cheese in the catacombs to make rats appear).

I guess that leaves me room to double in hiding or go the Stunseed route and place those points somewhere else to boost my physical skills.

Thanks for offering up your training regiment and a little about how it works Mtenda.

As far as stat placement, I was thinking something along the lines of:

Level 0 Sylvankind Ranger

STR 80
CON 47
DEX 88
AGL 70
DIS 70
AUR 70
LOG 55
INT 90
WIS 70
INF 20

I've crunched numbers in Tsoran's spreadsheet and it seems that I can't really get an ambush RT below 7 seconds for a claidhmore no matter what my stats are. Is this pretty true excluding Haste and other outside items/spells? Beyond that, is there any tragic flaws in my stat placement?

Thanks again for the all responses.
-Eric, player of a future ranger

I can't really help you with the stat placement much. I would just toy around with the spreadsheet until you find a combo of stat growth and TP's that works for the plan you want. As someone who ambushes from hiding you will be more efficient overall using a weapon that only crushes. All that crit weighting is overkill and the 7 second rt is appalling on the claidh. Add that to the fact that you can't get one with a decent enchant without a rediculous amount of money and it's easy to see why a claid should not be your weapon of choice unless you are so low level that your ambushing skill isn't good enough to use. Get yourself a maul or a mattock for after level 10 or so. Then worry about crit weighting after you have the right weapon base and money to burn.

[Drazaan]

Except for upping my LOG, if that's the only major flaw that sticks out, I can't be too far off base. Good enough for me.

I think I'll post about the role (or lack thereof) of perception in ambushing on the official forums just to maybe get a few more voices in on this topic because it is important, especially seeing the different answers.

Thanks again all.
-Eric