Driving Under the Influence...

[Tisket]

...of cell phones is now illegal in California and Washington state without a hands-free device.

I've seen just as many people with their phones glued to their ears today as yesterday.

[AnticorRifling]

How does a hands free device make you any less engaged in the coversation?

[Bobmuhthol]

It's the conversation that's distracting, not holding the phone. Those laws are retarded.

[Tisket]

How does a hands free device make you any less engaged in the coversation?

All the research seems to say that it's not holding the phone that causes problems but engaging in conversations that is the real distraction. Still, I've seen some pretty ugly one-handed turns performed because the driver was juggling his phone.

[Nieninque]

It's the conversation that's distracting, not holding the phone. Those laws are retarded.

Pretty sure that having one of your hands stuck to your ear while you are driving is pretty retarded too.

[Bobmuhthol]

I drive with one hand, so tell me how holding an object in my other hand is "retarded"?

[The Ponzzz]

It's been illegal in NY for years. It's not illegal here in IN.

[AnticorRifling]

It's the conversation that's distracting, not holding the phone. Those laws are retarded.
Kind of my point.

I think cell phone use in a car should be a privledge not a right. If it's proved that you were on the phone when you cause a wreck or cause a moving violation you should lose that privledge. Don't punish me because others are retarded.

[Kyra231]

Kind of my point.

I think cell phone use in a car should be a privledge not a right. If it's proved that you were on the phone when you cause a wreck or cause a moving violation you should lose that privledge. Don't punish me because others are retarded.

How would that be enforceable if it's not a blanket law for all cell phone users? Doesn't seem feasible.

[Tisket]

This is kind of interesting, lists countries that have bans in effect and the U.S. states that do and don't restrict cell phone useage while driving:

http://www.cellular-news.com/car_bans/

[NocturnalRob]

these laws are idiotic. it was implemented in DC, and i never once heard of any of my friends getting ticketed for talking on their cell phone. it's hard to enforce and doesn't really make a difference

[Allereli]

these laws are idiotic. it was implemented in DC, and i never once heard of any of my friends getting ticketed for talking on their cell phone. it's hard to enforce and doesn't really make a difference

The police never pull anyone over for it in DC. I have had friends get $70 tickets in NY.

[Jaimaltz]

It's really just another excuse for a cop to pull you over. There's quite a long list already - vehicle inspection stickers, seat belts, tail light, dirty license plate, license plate light, checking if you had alcohol, windows tinted too much, I'm sure there's several hundred I'm missing. I was driving in NY a couple years ago, and they even set road blocks up there, just to check if your registration, etc. is up to date, get a good look into your car to see if you have drugs, harass you about where you're going and get indignant when you refuse to tell them, etc.

A cell phone driving ban is pretty much unenforcible anyway, seeing as if the cop pulls you over, you snap the phone shut and stick it in your pocket. Then it's your word against the cops, and if they just always go with what the cop says, that's a pretty huge license for the cops to harass people, and get off on power trips. Yet another stupid law.

[Nieninque]

People who are on the phone while driving are fucking idiots. Sure, most people get away with it...but the people who are killed because a minority of fuckwits only have one hand dealing with indicators/gears/steering would have said that minority is a significant one.

[Tisket]

It's really just another excuse for a cop to pull you over. There's quite a long list already - vehicle inspection stickers, seat belts, tail light, dirty license plate, license plate light, checking if you had alcohol, windows tinted too much, I'm sure there's several hundred I'm missing. I was driving in NY a couple years ago, and they even set road blocks up there, just to check if your registration, etc. is up to date, get a good look into your car to see if you have drugs, harass you about where you're going and get indignant when you refuse to tell them, etc.

A cell phone driving ban is pretty much unenforcible anyway, seeing as if the cop pulls you over, you snap the phone shut and stick it in your pocket. Then it's your word against the cops, and if they just always go with what the cop says, that's a pretty huge license for the cops to harass people, and get off on power trips. Yet another stupid law.

It's a secondary offense in Washington. You've got to be engaged in other unsafe/illegal driving behaviors to get pulled over and fined for non hands-free cell usage. However, it's a primary offense in California. Ticket fines are lower than in Washington but will be issued more I'm betting.

[CrystalTears]

I'd agree with the stupid law mentality if it weren't for so many people driving and talking and not paying attention to what they're doing.

[MotleyCrew]

I drive with one hand, so tell me how holding an object in my other hand is "retarded"?

Do we wanna know what 'object' you're holding in your other hand Bob? :yes:

But yeah, cell phones and driving is bad juju all around.

[Stretch]

The more annoying trend lately are the people who drive 10 miles under the speed limit to conserve gas.

They're slightly less annoying than the people who drive 15 miles under the speed limit because they're on the phone.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I'd agree with the stupid law mentality if it weren't for so many people driving and talking and not paying attention to what they're doing.>>

Do you really think a hands-free device alleviates the problem? How many people drink coffee while driving? It's the same concept (according to the law), but nobody is distracted by the fact that they're holding a cup of coffee just like nobody is distracted by the fact that they're holding a phone.

[CrystalTears]

Not sure why you singled out my statement but okay.

If you're hands-free, it's like talking to a passenger in your car. Both of your hands are available at all times. Just because you don't use both hands at all times doesn't mean at any moment you may need to.

And when you drink coffee, it's for a second and then you put it down. If someone is holding their coffee the entire time they're drinking it, I'd have issues with that too if it's affecting how they're driving.

[Tisket]

I sometimes wish cell phones were illegal to use while standing in doorways, walking down hallways, attending meetings, sitting down to eat, and when talking to face-to-face with someone else. I usually try to talk really, really, loudly when near these people :P

[Bobmuhthol]

Again, the distraction with phones is the conversation, it's not having one hand holding the phone.

[CrystalTears]

Again, the distraction with phones is the conversation, it's not having one hand holding the phone.
Actually the people that cause problems on the road I have issues with are the ones holding the phone.

[Bobmuhthol]

You have issues with the wrong people, according to, you know, scientific studies.

[CrystalTears]

I don't really give a fuck, Bob.


People who are on the phone while driving are fucking idiots. Sure, most people get away with it...but the people who are killed because a minority of fuckwits only have one hand dealing with indicators/gears/steering would have said that minority is a significant one.
:yeahthat:

[Bobmuhthol]

Yeah, I guess if I was wrong I'd be pretty defensive, too.

[CrystalTears]

Only in your world is an opinion wrong.

Don't you have a corner to cry in because your school didn't kiss your ass or something?

[Nieninque]

You have issues with the wrong people, according to, you know, scientific studies.

So the scientific studies you read say that someone can drive just as well using one hand as they can with two?

Want to post some?

[Bobmuhthol]

Hilarious. I'm glad you used to think you were capable of being objective and running a forum.

[CrystalTears]

Hilarious. I'm glad you used to think you were capable of being objective and running a forum.
I used to think that, which is why I quit, so that I can tell little shits like you to fuck off.

[Kyra231]

<<I'd agree with the stupid law mentality if it weren't for so many people driving and talking and not paying attention to what they're doing.>>

Do you really think a hands-free device alleviates the problem? How many people drink coffee while driving? It's the same concept (according to the law), but nobody is distracted by the fact that they're holding a cup of coffee just like nobody is distracted by the fact that they're holding a phone.

Except for when they start to lose signal & try to adjust the phone, or turn the volume up & down, or find the right button to switch over to the other line. All things I've never had to do with my cup of coffee in the car.

Really there are just too many morons who won't let the call drop rather than fidget with the phone or try to answer a text message that comes in mid conversation rather than ignore it. It takes more concentration(and time not paying attention to the road)than finding the cup holder for your drink or dropping a few napkins in the holder to mop up the spill.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<So the scientific studies you read say that someone can drive just as well using one hand as they can with two?>>

They say that there's the same level of distraction when you're talking to someone on the phone, regardless of whether you're holding the phone during the conversation.

<<Want to post some?>>

http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/cellphones/


Motorists who use cellphones while driving are four times as likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves, according to a study of drivers in Perth, Australia, conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The results, published in July 2005, suggest that banning hand-held phone use will not necessarily improve safety if drivers simply switch to hand-free phones. The study found that injury crash risk didn't vary with type of phone.

[Nieninque]

Except for when they start to lose signal & try to adjust the phone, or turn the volume up & down, or find the right button to switch over to the other line. All things I've never had to do with my cup of coffee in the car.

Don't forget reading and sending texts...

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Except for when they start to lose signal & try to adjust the phone, or turn the volume up & down, or find the right button to switch over to the other line. All things I've never had to do with my cup of coffee in the car.>>

Because fiddling with controls like that doesn't happen with radios, which are in, I don't know, every car in existence.

[Nieninque]

<<So the scientific studies you read say that someone can drive just as well using one hand as they can with two?>>

They say that there's the same level of distraction when you're talking to someone on the phone, regardless of whether you're holding the phone during the conversation.

<<Want to post some?>>

http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/cellphones/

From your link: "A September 2004 study from the NHTSA found that drivers using hand-free cellphones had to redial calls 40 percent of the time, compared with 18 percent for drivers using hand-held sets, suggesting that hands-free sets may provide drivers with a false sense of ease. " Which is suggesting that it is the act of DOING SOMETHING ELSE WITH YOUR HANDS WHILST DRIVING that is the biggest danger, not just the act of talking, although I acknowledge that the act of talking on the phone (using hands-free or otherwise) is also a distraction.

[Nieninque]

<<Except for when they start to lose signal & try to adjust the phone, or turn the volume up & down, or find the right button to switch over to the other line. All things I've never had to do with my cup of coffee in the car.>>

Because fiddling with controls like that doesn't happen with radios, which are in, I don't know, every car in existence.

There are lots of distractions for people when driving cars.
Clearly we should not ever attempt to deal with one issue before we have exhausted all others that can be said to be more of an issue.
I am aware that covering your eyes with your hands whilst driving is detrimental to your driving ability. We should not deal with phone use before we have dealt with this.

[Bobmuhthol]

That statistic does not give a correlation with accidents, though; all it says is hands-free cell phones have problems that hand-held cell phones do not have. In effect, the only substantial conclusion you can make from that study is that switching to hands-free phones is no safer, or even not as safe.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<There are lots of distractions for people when driving cars.
Clearly we should not ever attempt to deal with one issue before we have exhausted all others that can be said to be more of an issue.>>

Car radios existed before common cell phone usage in cars. But the cell phone usage is a bigger concern, even though more drivers use a radio.

It's the conversation, not the restriction of a free hand.

[Nieninque]

That statistic does not give a correlation with accidents, though; all it says is hands-free cell phones have problems that hand-held cell phones do not have. In effect, the only substantial conclusion you can make from that study is that switching to hands-free phones is no safer, or even not as safe.

You can say it is not as dangerous because you are not holding it and you have two hands available to drive the machine you are sat in.

If you start redialling on a hands-free phone, it is no longer hands-free. The fact it is in a cradle is redundant.

[Nieninque]

<<There are lots of distractions for people when driving cars.
Clearly we should not ever attempt to deal with one issue before we have exhausted all others that can be said to be more of an issue.>>

Car radios existed before common cell phone usage in cars. But the cell phone usage is a bigger concern, even though more drivers use a radio.

It's the conversation, not the restriction of a free hand.

No, it's the act of not giving full attention to the road in front of you.
I don't know what the laws in the US are like, but if you kill someone because you are changing your CD, you are just as culpable as if you would have been if you were on the phone. That is to say, very...say bye bye to that liberty thing.

[Bobmuhthol]

If you kill someone while you were completely attentive you get the same punishment...

[Nieninque]

Not at all. Not here. If you kill someone driving whilst you are completely attentive to the road, it is usually an accident.

[Deathravin]

I've seen WAY too many people texting while driving. That's just disgusting.

At any rate. I've noticed myself not paying enough attention to the road. Be it while talking on the phone, playing with my radio, getting road head (when I was much younger... I'm married now, they should put that in the ceremony "I now pronouce you man and wife, you may kiss the bride. And the bride may never give another BJ, or any adventerous sexual act for as long as you both shall live), etc...

Sometimes the driving is primary and whatever else is secondary. And sometimes I notice the other thing becoming primary. Any time driving becomes secondary, that's the time to stop what you're doing and bring it back to focus. That's all there is to it.

I put the phone down, don't mess with the radio, tell her to stop for a moment (she never did... I suppose it's sort of the point), etc when I'm merging onto a freeway, or making a turn onto a busy road, etc... But most of the time it's fine as long as it takes a second place to driving.

I do notice that it's harder to check a blind spot when you have a phone up to your head... Also I've used hands-free devices and I've found that I don't see myself unable to keep in my lane or cutting people off at all where I might do this occasionally with a phone up to my head.

I think a law that needs to be in place long before this one is the 'old person driving law'... Unfortunatly a lot of old people vote, so it'd probably get shot down, but old people drive like a chain smoking, habitually texting, manual trasmission shifting, stereo fiddling, chinese 16 year old girl who's putting her make-up on... They're aweful.

Manditory driving tests every 3 years for people over 60, every 2 years for over 70, every year for over 80 and every 6 months for people over 90.

[Tisket]

getting road head (when I was much younger... I'm married now, they should put that in the ceremony "I now pronouce you man and wife, you may kiss the bride. And the bride may never give another BJ, or any adventerous sexual act for as long as you both shall live), etc...


I'm amazed that men even want head while they drive. The consequences of even a minor fender bender could be pretty dire...

[Gan]

I think that in order to maintain control of the vehicle, as studies and as driving instructors have shown, both hands need to be on the wheel unless you're shifting a standard transmission. Having a hand holding the phone while driving IS a distraction that only adds to the conversation distraction.

Does that mean we do it? LOL hell no. I drive with one hand usually (and I drive a 5sp.) There's many things for the 'other' hand to do rather than hold the wheel. However, for those of us who have taken defensive driving recently - they still teach the 10/2 position as they did in driver's ed.

[Gan]

If you kill someone while you were completely attentive you get the same punishment...

Doubtful if they can prove that you were texting or talking on the phone. Not to mention it opens up more liability in a civil suit.

[Deathravin]

I think that in order to maintain control of the vehicle, as studies and as driving instructors have shown, both hands need to be on the wheel unless you're shifting a standard transmission. Having a hand holding the phone while driving IS a distraction that only adds to the conversation distraction.

Does that mean we do it? LOL hell no. I drive with one hand usually (and I drive a 5sp.) There's many things for the 'other' hand to do rather than hold the wheel. However, for those of us who have taken defensive driving recently - they still teach the 10/2 position as they did in driver's ed.

My instructor told me 9 and 3 because the airbag or something... I didn't use his advice once I got my 100% driving test and my little driver's license though.

[Numbers]

Just don't talk on the phone when you're in the car, hands free or not. If the conversation is important enough that you absolutely have to speak to that person immediately and it can't wait a few minutes, then pull over.

People always say that New Yorkers are terrible drivers. I can tell you that that's bullshit. I learned to drive there, and while NYers are aggressive, they're not bad drivers. After living in MA for a few years, the people here can't drive worth two shits and a duck. The cell phones don't help matters, and damn near everyone in MA drives with their phone glued to their ear.

[Kyra231]

Don't forget reading and sending texts...

That too.

I suppose if you had the attention span of a gnat, hitting the scan button mindlessly on your radio or flipping in a new cd could be considered as distracting as inputting 162 letters of text or whatever the max is on your phone.

:shrug:

~K.

[AnticorRifling]

I'm amazed that men even want head while they drive. The consequences of even a minor fender bender could be pretty dire...

Did you really type that. We don't give a shit what we're doing or when we're doing it but we are confident that head will always be a positive addition to the current activity. Consequences? Who has time to think about those when you're thinking about the possibility of getting head?!

Associated with road head I used to a girl stand out of my sun roof so I could go down on her while I was driving, that was insane. Road sex is fun too.

[SolitareConfinement]

Not at all. Not here. If you kill someone driving whilst you are completely attentive to the road, it is usually an accident.

i thought accidental killing in a vehicle be it attentive or not was vehicle manslaughter? could be wrong...not a lawyer

[Nieninque]

i thought accidental killing in a vehicle be it attentive or not was vehicle manslaughter? could be wrong...not a lawyer

Manslaughter here implies some level of culpability for someone's death, which there would not be in the case of an accident. Can't say that would be the same for US law.

[SolitareConfinement]

Manslaughter here implies some level of culpability for someone's death, which there would not be in the case of an accident. Can't say that would be the same for US law.



my apologies i assumed when you said "here" that you were referring to a state not total different country. where as here in a vehicle they always name someone at fault no matter what, even if you are fully attentive then the prosecutor then can decide to charge you or not. so given a circumstance say you rear end someone, on a rainy day, you are considered at fault but most likely wouldn't get manslaughter charges unless you were drunk or negligent in some way. Although, I've read in the local news paper of those that didn't SEEM negligent in car accidents, still being charged by the prosecutor, so for the most part its circumstantial

[Sean of the Thread]

Lol speaking of road head. Was getting some and stopped at a stoplight and some dude came up to the window (clean cut) asking about a ride or cab fare that his wife just made him get out of the car and he was OH SHIT and ran away when he saw hahahaha.

[AnticorRifling]

Lol speaking of road head. Was getting some and stopped at a stoplight and some dude came up to the window (clean cut) asking about a ride or cab fare that his wife just made him get out of the car and he was OH SHIT and ran away when he saw hahahaha.

Which dude ran away the one at the window or the one giving you head?

[Methais]

I drive with one hand, so tell me how holding an object in my other hand is "retarded"?

Because even though it's not an issue for most people, the physical act of holding a phone to your ear with one hand uses some of your brainpower that would otherwise be used for paying attention to driving.

Focusing on a conversation is the same concept. So if you take said brainpower, allocate it from driving over to holding a phone to your head and engaging in conversation, apply it to an idiot (who is frequently some stupid soccer mom in a bus sized SUV with a custom plate that says something like NUM1MOM that listens to Kenny G) without enough brainpower to go around, and you have a recipe for disaster.

To be fair though, these are the same idiots that probably cause wrecks due to just engaging in a conversation with a passenger, so chances are a hands free setup won't do them any good.

Plus, I'd bet that a lot of cell phone wrecks are caused by people texting. Particularly those that have to actually look at the phone in order to type out a text message because their brain can't retain the information of which letter is on which key and/or just lack coordination because their mother did heroin during her pregnancy. Lucky for me, I can drive safely while texting, conversing, playing air instruments, tying my shoes, and masturbating (with either hand, sometimes both while steering with my knee) all at the same time.

I credit all that coordination to video games. And my natural l33tness.

[Gan]

Which dude ran away the one at the window or the one giving you head?

LOL

winner

[Furrowfoot]

I sometimes wish cell phones were illegal to use while standing in doorways, walking down hallways, attending meetings, sitting down to eat, and when talking to face-to-face with someone else. I usually try to talk really, really, loudly when near these people :P

You forgot my biggest pet peeve - while in a checkout line, especially at the grocery store. Standing right there in front of the cashier yapping away and not paying attention. Rawr.

[RichardCranium]

A law was just passed here making it illegal to text while driving for everyone, and minors cannot text or talk on a phone while driving.

[Methais]

How are they gonna prove someone was texting though? At least when someone's talking on the phone you see the phone stuck to their face, and as far as I know, nobody sends text messages while holding the phone to their fat head.

O UR HEAD WAS FACING DOWN SO U MUSTA BEEN TXTING COME WITH ME PLZ KTHX.

They'll have better luck enforcing the law against oral sex. Why is that even a law anyway?

[Tisket]

How are they gonna prove someone was texting though? At least when someone's talking on the phone you see the phone stuck to their face, and as far as I know, nobody sends text messages while holding the phone to their fat head.



I'm thinking this would probably only be useful for nailing someone after an accident. If it's an accident that results in death or serious injury then I imagine your cell phone records could be subpoenaed (sp?) to see if you were engaged in texting or whatever at the time of the accident. Just guessing though.