Combat Maneuvers

[DansMtnVue]

So... I've got my max ranks in weapon specialization (for which I'm sorta kicking myself, as I start to ponder a fel hafter, but that's neither here nor there at this point), and still have plenty left over to spend. I loaded up on Hamstring, thinking that it sounded pretty impressive, then discovered that it sucks big old hairy donkey balls. I then converted those to Surge of Strength, on a recommendation, and am loving that one. However, I still have all these points lying around. Any suggestions? I'm a sword and board ambusher, and hunt along 98% of the time. What are the good ones, and which ones are a waste of points?

[Some Rogue]

I know alot of people aren't thrilled with shadow mastery, but it's what I have along with weapon spec and surge. I'm only 2x hiding so the shadow mastery helps and the reduced hiding/sneaking rt is huge for me.

[NocturnalRob]

since you're hunting alone, i would get one rank (or two if you have the points) of combat mobility. it's saved me a bunch of times.

and yes, shadow mastery is awesome.

[LadyLaphrael]

Agreed, combat mobility + stunman stance = far fewer lost deeds

[BandaorICE]

Hamstring is FAR from being sucky. Stun+Prone for 3s round time. Granted it's not great against creatures 10+ levels above and that's where ambushing the legs come in.

[NocturnalRob]

Agreed, combat mobility + stunman stance = far fewer lost deeds

i'm having a feud with my stunman manuevers these days. mastered, and i feel like i'm failing more than i'm succeeding. bah!

[Mtenda]

You could also consider dirtkick. While it won't win you any fights on it's own, it's universally useful, cheap to use, and can be used from any stance.

[Baelog]

While I know that I'm stating the obvious...Feint is one of the most useful CMANs out there. Stance O + RT is pretty nice, especially since it can prevent most everything from doing anything, not to mention that it can work on higher level critters

[Doughboy]

Dur...groin kick. What's more fun than running around kicking stuff in the balls. Plus it's just great to do to random people around town.

http://rumorsweretrue.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/kick-in-the-nuts.jpg

[NocturnalRob]

Dur...groin kick. What's more fun than running around kicking stuff in the balls. Plus it's just great to do to random people around town.

Agreed (http://www.bannedinhollywood.com/why-you-dont-block-a-david-beckham-kick-with-your-balls/)

[Mtenda]

While I know that I'm stating the obvious...Feint is one of the most useful CMANs out there. Stance O + RT is pretty nice, especially since it can prevent most everything from doing anything, not to mention that it can work on higher level critters

I thought they changed feint to where it no longer creates round time. How much round time does it create?

[Warriorbird]

3 secondsish?

[Outdrsyguy1]

the best is if you hunt in a group where 1 person feints and one dirtkicks. You end up with the critter in offensive with 8 sec rt and they can't dodge or parry your attacks which believe it or not can be pretty huge.

[Mtenda]

Well you can give them 3 seconds of rt by dirtkicking from a defensive stance. 5 from offensive I think. That is plenty for me. As a rogue the forced offensive stance is overkill because of the DS pushdown of ambush. Just don't really see how feint is worth the points or the stamina cost.

[LadyLaphrael]

Well you can give them 3 seconds of rt by dirtkicking from a defensive stance. 5 from offensive I think. That is plenty for me. As a rogue the forced offensive stance is overkill because of the DS pushdown of ambush. Just don't really see how feint is worth the points or the stamina cost.

If you're uphunting and can't guarantee the DS pushdown, my vote has been with cheapshot swiftkick. I seriously don't get why cheapshots get such guff in the guild skills list...kneebash, footstomp, and swiftkick are the jam to my ambushing bread and butter.

[Mtenda]

If you're uphunting and can't guarantee the DS pushdown, my vote has been with cheapshot swiftkick. I seriously don't get why cheapshots get such guff in the guild skills list...kneebash, footstomp, and swiftkick are the jam to my ambushing bread and butter.

Good point. If you've mastered cheapshots you really don't NEED any other setup combat manuevers.

[Stretch]

If you're uphunting and can't guarantee the DS pushdown, my vote has been with cheapshot swiftkick. I seriously don't get why cheapshots get such guff in the guild skills list...kneebash, footstomp, and swiftkick are the jam to my ambushing bread and butter.

Level factors heavily into CM success. If you're uphunting and aren't getting the full DS pushdown, there's not much more of a guarantee that you would be able to successfully pull off a cheapshot.

That varies depending on amount of CM training, how much you're uphunting, and the type of critter as well, I guess.

For what its worth, I had my rogue configured as follows:

Surge (5 ranks)
Mobility (2 ranks)
Toughness (3 ranks -- should get at least 1 for 15 HP)
Disarm (5 ranks)
Wspec (4 ranks)

Focus is good too.

[LadyLaphrael]

Level factors heavily into CM success. If you're uphunting and aren't getting the full DS pushdown, there's not much more of a guarantee that you would be able to successfully pull off a cheapshot.

That varies depending on amount of CM training, how much you're uphunting, and the type of critter as well, I guess.


Very true. In my experience, uphunting minotaur magi by about 7 trains or so, I can swiftkick with about an 80% success rate with only 1x in CMan. 80% ain't too bad in my book, and I know I'm not an ideal combat rogue build.

I'm considering putting points into disarm, considering I'm most often hunting with a sorcerer whose demon can eat fallen weapons in mid-combat. I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one to -not- put 10 points into WSpec just for that last +2 AS.

[Xeromist]

I'm considering specializing in 2 types of weapons...right now I have one specialization in falchions. I was considering daggers, too, for the quicker critters. One thing that drives me nuts is being evaded on an ambush by a quick critter. Is dual specialization practical, do you think? Or should I pick 1 weapon and stick with it?

[Mtenda]

I'm considering specializing in 2 types of weapons...right now I have one specialization in falchions. I was considering daggers, too, for the quicker critters. One thing that drives me nuts is being evaded on an ambush by a quick critter. Is dual specialization practical, do you think? Or should I pick 1 weapon and stick with it?

If it were me I would prefer to spend my CMAN points on other things. If you need extra speed make friends with a wizard and get some haste imbeds.

[DaCapn]

You could also consider dirtkick. While it won't win you any fights on it's own, it's universally useful, cheap to use, and can be used from any stance.

Dirtkick is phenomenal. I'm willing to say that it could be one of the best maneuvers for ambush hunters (from hiding, naturally). It's a staple move for me every single hunt and everything about it is excellent. Qualitatively, I'd say I am able to stun like-level creatures over 50% of the time.

Edit: If being evaded by quick critters pisses you off, dirtkick at 5 ranks gives -35% to EBP. Even with 2 in the room, it's easy to nail them both, probably stunning one and then hide to ambush the other.

Edit: Also... tried feint for a while and dirtkick just plain put it to shame.

[Mtenda]

Feint works well for open ambushers who don't get the DS pushdown and need to force stance.

[BigWorm]

Feint works well for open ambushers who don't get the DS pushdown and need to force stance.

You mean warriors?

[Xeromist]

Dirtkick is phenomenal. I'm willing to say that it could be one of the best maneuvers for ambush hunters (from hiding, naturally). It's a staple move for me every single hunt and everything about it is excellent. Qualitatively, I'd say I am able to stun like-level creatures over 50% of the time.

Edit: If being evaded by quick critters pisses you off, dirtkick at 5 ranks gives -35% to EBP. Even with 2 in the room, it's easy to nail them both, probably stunning one and then hide to ambush the other.

Edit: Also... tried feint for a while and dirtkick just plain put it to shame.

Great info, thanks :)

[Mtenda]

You mean warriors?

Yeah those things.