spellburst

[LeDru]

Can anyone tell me the formula for spellburst areas. I am wondering if there is a threshold for spells worn in or if you can just wear none. Searched Krakiipedia and Psinet library for it and can't find it.

[The Ponzzz]

There is no solid formula, the closest thing we know is...

(Arcane Symbols + Magic Item Use + Harness Power) / 3

That is the number of outside mana you can hold.

Spells known doesn't count towards spell burst.

Spells you can learn that are in your circle, but not yet learned are halved.

[Renian]

Spells known doesn't count towards spell burst.


I question this. But what I do know is that spells known that you are wearing do not count towards spell burst.

[LeDru]

so do spells from items such as statues, or white crystals, count against it?

[The Ponzzz]

Small statues, no, white crystals, yes.

[waywardgs]

What about pure potions? And what if instead of uptraining your AS or MIU, you just got a bunch of enhancives to boost those skills? Would that count toward the final number you could wear?

[droit]

Enhancives aren't factored into spell burst at all. Pure potions would be because they just cast bravery.

[waywardgs]

Enhancives aren't factored into spell burst at all. Pure potions would be because they just cast bravery.

What I mean about the enhancives is, say I got a +10 miu item, boosting my skill in miu from 20 to 30.. with my 15 in AS, would my burst level now be 30+15/3=15, or would it be 20+15/3=11.6?

[Rocktar]

I would tend to think that it would fall along the lines of CMAN enhancives, they don't give you CMAN points to spend, so I would think that AS or MIU enhancives would tend not to let you wear more spells. I don't own any to test, but that would be my guess off hand.

[droit]

I would guess the opposite, actually. Using enhancives to gain CMAN points that have to be trained and untrained is very different than normal skills. My guess is that each time spellburst activates, it just compares your current spells to your current skills. Enhancives would probably help.

[Ragesh]

You currently have the following active spells:
Spirit Shield
Thurfel's Ward
Elemental Defense I
Strength

You suddenly feel the essence surrounding you shift and writhe chaotically!
You feel your extra strength departing.
... 20 points of damage!
Intense arc of energy flays your arm to the bone!
You are stunned for 2 rounds!

Arcane Symbols.....................| 114 28
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 10 2

45 total ranks / 3 = 15
2+3+1+9 = 15

Am I missing something?

[droit]

Ranks/3 is just a fairly accurate but rough estimation. GMs have said that its pretty close, but it is calculated differently behind the scenes. You probably just hit one of the discrepancies between the two calculations.

[Ragesh]

Thanks Droit.

[thefarmer]

Perhaps some spells or circles count a fraction or so more.

Strength maybe 9.5 and mobility 18.3.

edit:You also need to put your brute in your sig, yo.

[BigWorm]

You currently have the following active spells:
Spirit Shield
Thurfel's Ward
Elemental Defense I
Strength

You suddenly feel the essence surrounding you shift and writhe chaotically!
You feel your extra strength departing.
... 20 points of damage!
Intense arc of energy flays your arm to the bone!
You are stunned for 2 rounds!

Arcane Symbols.....................| 114 28
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 10 2

45 total ranks / 3 = 15
2+3+1+9 = 15

Am I missing something?

In my experience, you start to get diminishing returns from higher ranks, so you probably aren't getting credit for all 28 ranks of Arcane Symbols. You should try dropping one or two ranks of that and bumping one of the others and see if you can safely wear more mana.


Perhaps some spells or circles count a fraction or so more.

Strength maybe 9.5 and mobility 18.3.

edit:You also need to put your brute in your sig, yo.

This is definitely the case with blurs (and mobility I am pretty sure), but they both cost a lot more than a fraction of a mana point more than other spells of the same level. The spells he is using I have not experienced costing any extra.

[Ragesh]

Where the fuck did you get a whip and how did you defeat me?! Haha

[Ragesh]

In my experience, you start to get diminishing returns from higher ranks, so you probably aren't getting credit for all 28 ranks of Arcane Symbols. You should try dropping one or two ranks of that and bumping one of the others and see if you can safely wear more mana.


Adding two ranks of MIU seems to have fixed the problem. I don't know for certain yet if it was diminishing returns or higher mana cost for a spell.

--

Scratch that:
You suddenly feel the essence surrounding you shift and writhe chaotically!
The dim aura fades from around you.
... 15 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left eye incinerates eyelid. Gruesome.
You are stunned for 3 rounds!
>



Arcane Symbols.....................| 114 28
Magic Item Use.....................| 82 18
Harness Power......................| 10 2

Still bursts with a dim. I'll keep going up rank by rank and post again when I figure out a safe number for those four spells.

[The Ponzzz]

Positive you aren't wearing more than that? Also, what profession and where are you hunting?

[Ragesh]

Yeah. The only other stuff I have up are CoL signs and armored evasion. Hunting dogmatists and such in Illistim. Rogue.

[The Ponzzz]

I wonder if the ARMOR stuff is working against spellburst. If you're willing, drop the ARMOR by removing your armor and try all those spells again. If it works, you just discovered a nasty bug.

[droit]

Good idea. When GoS first came out, the sigils weren't counted as native spells. I'm not positive about them activating spellburst, but they were getting stripped in the Rift.

[The Ponzzz]

They burst on me in OTF at first. But the spells he is listing aren't any big named ones. If he was wearing 219 with just 19 points applied to spellburst, I'd say it might be the spell, but I use to always wear little shits like that with no worries.

[Ragesh]

As you remove your mithglin cuirass, it falls out of alignment.
>wear cu
You work your way into a rolaren-veined black mithglin cuirass etched with twisting gold sigils.
Roundtime: 17 sec.
>spell active
You currently have the following active spells:
Sign of Defending
Sign of Warding
Spirit Shield
Sign of Smiting
Thurfel's Ward
Sign of Striking
Sign of Swords
Strength

>say Cast a dim on me
You say, "Cast a dim on me."
>
Orpius leans softly against you.
>
Orpius traces a sign while petitioning the spirits for cognition...
>
Orpius gestures at you.
A dim aura surrounds you.
>
Orpius cringes.
You suddenly feel the essence surrounding you shift and writhe chaotically!
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.
... 5 points of damage!
Light shock to chest. That stings!

>spell active

You currently have the following active spells:
Sign of Defending
Sign of Warding
Spirit Shield
Sign of Smiting
Thurfel's Ward
Sign of Striking
Sign of Swords
Strength

Not that.

[Hecates]

im finding that formula rather right on for Wyneb, ive 88 ranks, and i wear 29 mana worth of spells.

only questions is 202 count as 2 mana for rangers? its still a spirit spell, just a mjor one? i counted it as two for sake of the formula

[Ragesh]

Arcane Symbols.....................| 114 28
Magic Item Use.....................| 82 18
Harness Power......................| 15 3

No burst, finally. Perhaps there are slight differences for requirements based on profession.

[Drunken Durfin]

My TP hell:


Arcane Symbols....................| 201 101
Magic Item Use.....................| 201 101
Harness Power......................| 74 16
Spirit Mana Control................| 74 16

Total: 234
Division by 3 Rule: 78

What I typically wear to Nelemar:


The following spells are currently active:

101: Spirit Warding I - 3h 59:17 remaining. [+10STD, +10BoltDS]
103: Spirit Defense - 1h 05:39 remaining. [+10DS]
107: Spirit Warding II - 3h 59:35 remaining. [+25STD, +25BoltDS]
202: Spirit Shield - 44:41 remaining. [+10DS]
211: Bravery - 1h 09:25 remaining. [+15AS]
401: Elemental Defense I - 3h 54:14 remaining. [+5DS, +5ETD]
406: Elemental Defense II - 3h 54:23 remaining. [+10DS, +10ETD]
414: Elemental Defense III - 3h 54:50 remaining. [+20DS, +15ETD]
503: Thurfel's Ward - 3h 44:38 remaining. [+20DS]
509: Strength - 3h 44:25 remaining. [+15Str, +15PhysAS]
601: Mass Colors - 2h 20:43 remaining. [+10DS]
613: Self Control - 1h 05:20 remaining. [+20PhysDS, +10STD]
Statue: Spirit Guard - 1h 10:14 remaining. [+25DS]

Total: [+45STD, +35BoltDS, +110DS, +15AS, +30ETD, +15Str, +15PhysAS, +20PhysDS]

Total Mana: 71

If I am not on XXX and will be hunting on longer stretches, I will swap out 211(bravery) for 215(heroism) and still be okay.

[SolitareConfinement]

weird im a rogue and the divided by 3 rule is off but works for me Ragesh...my skills are as follows:

Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 105 25

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 6

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 1

the spells i wear in Nelemar are:
101,103,107,401,406,414,503,509,601,202 and small statue


so with knowing 101, 406, and 401 we can remove them from the spellburst formula for myself which leaves 103, 107, 414, 503, 509, 601, and 202...which equals out to 27 mana actually...which is odd because i have enough training for 25....which is the proof in what GM's are saying that there is something else going on behind the scenes perhaps me being able to wear 2 mana like that over the divide by 3 threshold is evidence of stats being a factor OR that spell ranks somehow do factor in contrary to what we've seen because that's the only magical ranks i have is what you see....so who knows

[Mtenda]

weird im a rogue and the divided by 3 rule is off but works for me Ragesh...my skills are as follows:

Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 105 25

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 6

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 1

the spells i wear in Nelemar are:
101,103,107,401,406,414,503,509,601,202 and small statue


so with knowing 101, 406, and 401 we can remove them from the spellburst formula for myself which leaves 103, 107, 414, 503, 509, 601, and 202...which equals out to 27 mana actually...which is odd because i have enough training for 25....which is the proof in what GM's are saying that there is something else going on behind the scenes perhaps me being able to wear 2 mana like that over the divide by 3 threshold is evidence of stats being a factor OR that spell ranks somehow do factor in contrary to what we've seen because that's the only magical ranks i have is what you see....so who knows


It's because spells you are wearing that are possible for you to learn count half.

[SolitareConfinement]

yes i know....103 counts as 1.5 107 counts as 3.5 = 5 and 414 counts as 7 so.. 1.5 + 3.5 + 7 + 3 + 9 + 1 + 2 = 27

so like i said something else is going on there

[Izzy]

It's because spells you are wearing that are possible for you to learn count half.

He/she already took that into account.

103 = 3/2 = 2
107 = 7/2 = 4
414 = 14/2 = 7
503 = 3
509 = 9
601 = 1
202 = 2

(I get 28, meh. Still accounting for partial costs for knowable spells.)

Edit: covered already, but I believe that it doesn't count for partial ranks. It rounds up.

[Mtenda]

Ah I see. My beezy.

[SolitareConfinement]

He/she already took that into account.

103 = 3/2 = 2
107 = 7/2 = 4
414 = 14/2 = 7
503 = 3
509 = 9
601 = 1
202 = 2

(I get 28, meh. Still accounting for partial costs for knowable spells.)

Edit: covered already, but I believe that it doesn't count for partial ranks. It rounds up.

imma "HE"

still it doesn't seem to make sense though with my training something else has to be a factor in this...ugh wish i had my fixstats taken care of i'd do more checking to try and find what Gib might not have in his spellburst research

[crb]

No player has been able to make the formula in gs4, me and chuckaar figured it out in gs3 after otf opened, but in gs4 they changed it up with the new skills AND weighted some spells differently. IE, each spell now has an arbitrary value that is not always the same as it's number. Without knowing those values it makes it really hard to reverse engineer the formula.

[graysun]

I am in the process of training up some MIU/A.S. in order to be able to wear more outside spells when hunting.

I think if we post enough data points, it shouldn't be too difficult to reverse-engineer the weighting values for spells like strength and mass blurs.

Would need (i) profession, (ii) ranks of MIU + A.S. + Harness, and (iii) list of outside spells that make the character burst or not burst.

[Lord Orbstar]

Arcane Symbols 20
Magic Item Use 10
Harness Power 30
============

On my longbow using 95 rogue, I know up to spells 425 and 107.

============


Do you think that training will be sufficient to let me hunt without spellburst worries? I suppose I will use a small statue, mass blurs, and 509 if I can find someone to cast it.

Actually, it looks like I wont be able to use all those spells. My Spell Burst magic number appears to be '20". Mass Blurs is 11 and strenth is 9. Yay. Looks like I will just make it.

What level is a "small statue" rated as?

[crb]

I don't think small statues count.

[Asrial]

Small statues do not count, no.

[Gibreficul]

AH, Spellburst... one issue I've tested extensively.

OK, first off, spellburst has MANY MANY factors. It's nothing cut and dry like ranks/3. That value will ballpark it, but should by no means be considered anywhere near accurate.

Let's visit what I know.

FIRST: Possibly most important and least known, LEVEL is a factor. I observed being able to add spells like 202 after gaining a few levels and not gaining any magical ranks.

SECOND: Applicable skills to offset spellburst are, MIU, AS, HP, Spell Aiming, Control ranks, Lore ranks.

Of those skills, relative to the research I've done, MIU, AS, and HP seem to carry the most weight. Control ranks and lore ranks did not seem offset as much outside mana. I want to say Spell Aiming was weighted similar to MIU/HP/AS, but I'm not certain.

THIRD: Spell ranks DO NOT count toward spellburst ranks. They will give you "selfcast" spells, which in turn will not be subject to spellburst. (If you know 6 minor elemental spells, wearing 401, 402, 403, 404, and 406 will have no effect on your spellburst.) But again, those 6 ranks do not add in with the AS/MIU/HP/ect... ranks.

FOURTH: Spells that are not selfcast, but are from a learnable spell circle count as half mana relative to their base cost for spellburst. 401 counts as .5 mana, 406 counts as 3, ect.

FIFTH: Elemental spells seemed to "round up" to bursting, whereas spiritual spells seemed to "round down." For example, 12 elemental mana may cause a spellburst whereas 12 spiritual mana would not. I haven't really pressed the issue much, just an observation currently, however I did notice certain spells such as 509 that seemed to count for more than their base mana cost against bursting. I noticed a few other spells with similar characteristics. Most notably 618, 211, and 215, and possibly 414... the memory is hazy. I believe I did the bulk of my research 3 fixskills ago, give or take.

SIXTH: Once I found my burst threshold for my character at his LEVEL, I was able to accurately predict a burst or no-burst. I recall at cap, Gibreficul's burst threshold was 2.25. Now, this was having ONLY MIU/AS/HP ranks. If I'd add up the ranks, divide them by 2.25, I'd get my wearable mana, within .5 mana. (also, if I'd multiply by 0.45, I'd get a similar number, usually the amount of mana that WOULD cause a burst.)


Possibly applicable.

Counting control ranks as half the value of MIU/AS/HP ranks seems to work very nicely into the minimal calculations I've actually done. I assume lore ranks were similar to control ranks, but I'd have to check the spreadsheets. Also, the potential for depreciating returns is most certainly present. That said, your best option is to find your burst factor and choose your outside spells wisely.

Since my recent fixstats, I may have to retest my spellburst numbers to determine if my change in stats may have effected my burst factor. Just so much time and effort...to crack a complicated formula that wasn't meant to be cracked.

I hope this helped a little... or a lot... and if not, fuck off, I tried.

:irule:

Gibreficul

Buy my lockpicks! www.playershops.com/gibreficul

[Gibreficul]

One more thing, I'd have done an edit, but this deserves its own post...

"Group" spells don't count toward spellburst...
1006, 1007, 1035, 1125, 1617 (and the shield paly spell) 307, 310, and I'm sure I'm missing some. These are NOT to be confused with "mass" spells.

Of note, even casting these from an imbed won't cause a spellburst.

And if you want to know if something will add to spellburst....

If it adds to "active spells" with a spell # spell, and it's not a group spell, it will add to spellburst. (take note that 611 shows as 601 in active spells, so it counts as 1 mana)


Gibreficul... shorter post this time.