Krakii Error

[Sypher]

Wondering if this is an error, or if it's correct. I'm assuming it's correct since Krakii usually keeps everything up to date.

Claidhmore
.625 .500 .500 .350 .275 8 5 Slash/Crush 75/200
AvD 31 35 34 33 32 34 32 30 28 38 34 30 26 37 31 25 19



Two-handed sword

DF .625 .500 .500 .350 .275 8 5 Slash/Crush 75/200
AvD 41 45 44 43 42 44 42 40 38 48 44 40 36 47 41 35 29


Notice the .275 between the two-handed sword and claidhmore. Both are exactly the same, I thought the claid was supposed to be .225? Did this change?

[Sypher]

Yay!

[graysun]

So did it change?

Oh, and you should just start playing plat and buy my mithril claid for 2m.

[Danical]

HHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Oldstyle vs. Newstyle.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Oldstyle vs. Newstyle.>>

Except he's saying that oldstyle and newstyle have the same value when he thinks they should be different values. l2read

[Danical]

I knowz.

The DF is that of an oldstyle but the AvD is that of a newstyle. Since he specifically stated the DFs I thought I would point to the old/new distinction.

I'll edit the page when I'm at home.

[Khariz]

Wondering if this is an error, or if it's correct. I'm assuming it's correct since Krakii usually keeps everything up to date.

Claidhmore
.625 .500 .500 .350 .275 8 5 Slash/Crush 75/200
AvD 31 35 34 33 32 34 32 30 28 38 34 30 26 37 31 25 19



Two-handed sword

DF .625 .500 .500 .350 .275 8 5 Slash/Crush 75/200
AvD 41 45 44 43 42 44 42 40 38 48 44 40 36 47 41 35 29


Notice the .275 between the two-handed sword and claidhmore. Both are exactly the same, I thought the claid was supposed to be .225? Did this change?


It did not change. Newstyle still have a lower DF on plate.

[Nilandia]

If you're talking about the Krakiipedia page, which it looks like you might be, that's not maintained by Krakii. That particular page has been updated by Divid and Tepkin.

It's a very common misunderstanding to assume that Krakii maintains the Krakiipedia. He doesn't, actually. Aside from three edits back in December, Krakii hasn't touched the site since 2006.

Gretchen

[Sypher]

Hum, wierd. Just the AvD change would have been nice. Anyone did any testing to be sure the new style claids are only .225 against plate. Latrin, I'm looking in your general direction.

[Fallen]

Man, new style claidh's seems to really be inferior.

[Sypher]

It's been the general theme of GS over the years. The general rule of thumb is, usually the older it is the more powerful. Even changes recently or otherwise have been this way.

The new warrior changes although helpful does not in anyway increase overall power of the game. Warriors were already severly underpowered to begin with, the changes just rectified that to some degree.

[Methais]

It's been the general theme of GS over the years. The general rule of thumb is, usually the older it is the more powerful. Until it gets used, then they nerf it into gayness.

Fixed.

[Khariz]

Hum, wierd. Just the AvD change would have been nice. Anyone did any testing to be sure the new style claids are only .225 against plate. Latrin, I'm looking in your general direction.

I have hundreds of hours of hunts worth of parsed logs with both claid types. I can verify with nearly 100% certainty that plate DF is approx .050 lower on new style claids.

And Evarin, nothing else is different about them so I can't see how they are "really inferior".

The AvD differences are meaningless because the -10 to AvD as compared to Greatsword base is added into the AS. A vultite new style claidhmore is +20 AS, whereas a vultite old style claidhmore is +10 AS with a 10 higher AvD than new style. The AvD/DS mess is a wash.

There is literally only two differences between old and new style claidhmores. One in plate class DF, and the other is that an old style claid user can wpsec in greatsword and have it work both on his claidhmore and a blessable, whereas a new style claid user has to wspec in the new "Claidhmore" style which precludes dual use.

All other factors of both types are identical.

Something else to note: Because of the way DS is calculated for twohanders, with the enchant of the weapon actually mattering to offensive DS, a new style claidhmore user's offensive DS tends to be higher.

Also, new style claidhmores tend to be considerably lighter. And by a big margin too. I'm talking 7 pounds versus upwards of 20-40 pounds (old style full weight laen). There is an oddity in the old style claid world with a sub-10 pound laen variation, but that is the exception and not the rule. Old style shaalk, laen, and iorake claidhmores tend to be god aweful heavy, whereas new style vultite, eonake, ora, and mithril tend to be light.

That's all I can think of right now. I speak from 100% personal experience, as I've personally owned claidhmores of all the above listed types and have used them extensively.

[thefarmer]

Something else to note: Because of the way DS is calculated for twohanders, with the enchant of the weapon actually mattering to offensive DS, a new style claidhmore user's offensive DS tends to be higher.

Also, new style claidhmores tend to be considerably lighter. And by a big margin too. I'm talking 7 pounds versus upwards of 20-40 pounds (old style full weight laen). There is an oddity in the old style claid world with a sub-10 pound laen variation, but that is the exception and not the rule. Old style shaalk, laen, and iorake claidhmores tend to be god aweful heavy, whereas new style vultite, eonake, ora, and mithril tend to be light.

This is why I always stuck with my newstyle rolaren-based (that got converted in gs4 to sanctified vaalorn and a full 4x) when I had numerous opportunities to buy an old style. I've swung more than my fair share of claids (new, old, enchanted, weighted), so whether or not my opinion matters much, Khariz is exactly right.

[Danical]

Sell me an oldstyle claid then :(

[Sypher]

Some quick numbers.

I did out numbers for reasonable endroll ranges and found this.

Note: I set the weighting for claids at 30 which is the average between 20-40

Thus,

Rank 7 is 300 + range.

Rank 6 criticals require a 230 on old style 257 for newstyle

Rank 5 criticals require a 190 on old style. 208 for newstyle.

Rank 4 criticals require a 151 on old style. 160 for newstyle

Rank 3 criticals require a 109 on old style. 111 for newstyle.

Rank 2 and 1 are numerically the same.

Thus, to definitively prove whether or not newstyle is inferior to oldstyle etc. Is to find out how much of a DS gain you get in a more offensive stance from enchant. And the effects of weapon weight, since there is a huge weight difference, has on combat. Plus, what are the usual endroll ranges for the average trained warrior versus plate wearing critters of a similar level category.

[Baelog]

Also, new style claidhmores tend to be considerably lighter. And by a big margin too. I'm talking 7 pounds versus upwards of 20-40 pounds (old style full weight laen). There is an oddity in the old style claid world with a sub-10 pound laen variation, but that is the exception and not the rule. Old style shaalk, laen, and iorake claidhmores tend to be god aweful heavy, whereas new style vultite, eonake, ora, and mithril tend to be light.

That's all I can think of right now. I speak from 100% personal experience, as I've personally owned claidhmores of all the above listed types and have used them extensively.

Laen claidhs are so heavy because Laen is Glaes, Eog is Ora. Hell, I've had a Glaes Longsword that's up near 20lbs where a Vultite Longsword is 4lbs.

[Khariz]

Laen claidhs are so heavy because Laen is Glaes, Eog is Ora. Hell, I've had a Glaes Longsword that's up near 20lbs where a Vultite Longsword is 4lbs.

No, I understand that, but that's not what the deal is. For the same metal type, the old style claids typicall weigh twice what the new style equivalent weights. A new style glaes claid might weigh say 17-19 pounds. A old style laen (if it's not one of those serrated ones) will weigh like 37-40 pounds. Same with the shaalk/vultite comparison, and the eonake/iorake.

I have a 4x new style eonake that I'm using as my main weapon right now. It's like 7 pounds. My old style iorake one weighed about 30.

I like the current eonake one I have because its full +20, light, I get the full defensive capabilities I can, and because it still gets the same awesome crits. Also, seeing as how I hunt in Nelemar, there's really no fully plate class mobs I'm worried about. Combatants are retardedly easy to kill, and nothing else wears armor of jack squat class.

On the whole though, I would have to say that old style claids are a much better "class". It's nice to have claids made of old metals, and a single wpsec for both your claid and blessable.

[Baelog]

Oh, thought you thought that Laen was Ora, since you listend Shaalk, Laen, and Iorake, and then Vultite, Ora and Eonake.

I had no idea oldstyle claidhmores were normally as heavy as a Glaes Twohander...

[Sypher]

Khariz, are you still willing to sell that claid greataxe for 40 mil?

[Khariz]

Khariz, are you still willing to sell that claid greataxe for 40 mil?

Hmm, probably not. It's honestly, hands down the best claidhmore weapon I've ever used. When you take into account the massive AvD difference, it might as well be better than a 4x old style claid.

Granted, it's just rotting on my locker, but it's probably going to take a good chunk more than that to pry it from my hands.

[Sypher]

Two-handed sword
DF .625 .500 .500 .350 .275 8 5 Slash/Crush 75/200AvD
41 45 44 43 42 44 42 40 38 48 44 40 36 47 41 35 29

Battle Axe
DF .650 .475 .500 .375 .275 8 5 Slash/Crush 70/155
AvD 35 39 38 37 36 43 41 39 37 50 46 42 38 50 44 38 32

If you total up the AvDs the greatsword would be better overall. But thats really not why I want it. It's mainly the fact that particular battleaxe is enchantable through premium points and a oldstyle claid is not.

You tried selling it for 40 mil before, so I had to ask. I have a 3x newstyle claid though, might PP that up some hrm. Or get my hands on a special ability or something other newstyle claid and PP that up.