Girl shoots self with grandma's gun in a Sam's Club

[Trouble]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080610/ap_on_re_us/sam_s_club_child_shot;_ylt=AhilEii769sGoupS47GbtbU DW7oF

COLUMBIA, S.C. - A 4-year-old girl shot herself in the chest Monday after snatching her grandmother's handgun from the woman's purse while riding in a shopping cart at a Sam's Club store, authorities said.

A witness, Lueen Homewood, said store workers grabbed first-aid materials off store shelves to help the grandmother as she cradled the wounded child near the store's pharmacy, The (Columbia) State newspaper reported on its Web site.

The girl was rushed to a hospital in critical condition and was recovering Monday afternoon after surgery, said police department spokesman Brick Lewis. Hospital officials would not release her condition after the operation.

Lewis said the grandmother, Donna Hutto Williamson, has a permit to carry a concealed weapon and the purse containing the small-caliber handgun was in the cart near the child. The 47-year-old Williamson, of Salley, was not immediately charged with a crime.

Williamson, a South Carolina magistrate, was distraught after the shooting, her mother-in-law said.

"The grandmother is just beating herself up," said Inease Williamson, 68. "She is just so upset. Everyone is upset."

Officials said the shooting, which was captured on store surveillance cameras, appeared to be accidental. Lewis said police would not release the video.

The store was closed while police investigated the shooting. It reopened Monday afternoon.

"Everyone at Sam's Club is deeply saddened by today's tragedy," Tara Stewart, state spokeswoman for Wal-Mart and Sam's Club, said in a statement. "Our thoughts and prayers are with the little girl and her family."

Concealed weapons permit holders in South Carolina are not allowed to carry weapons into buildings that prohibit it, or into government buildings, schools and daycare facilities, among other places.

The Sam's Club store does not have a sign prohibiting guns inside.

[NocturnalRob]

47-year-old grandmother in South Carolina.

that pretty much says it all right there.



The Sam's Club store does not have a sign prohibiting guns inside.

Really? Do they have a sign saying you can't fuck in the toiletries aisle? Well, I know where I'm filming my next snuff film!

[RichardCranium]

So she had a kid when she was 23 or 24 and her kid had a kid when she was 19 or 20?

[NocturnalRob]

So she had a kid when she was 23 or 24 and her kid had a kid when she was 19 or 20?

yeah, that's what i was getting at.

[CrystalTears]

Age has nothing to do with it. She just shouldn't have set down her purse near the child.

[Trouble]

I guess my point was why would a grandma have a chambered round and safety off in her purse with a 4-year old in arm's reach? Sheesh.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Yup. She didn't make sure the gun was secure, which was incredibly irresponsible.

[NocturnalRob]

Age has nothing to do with it. She just shouldn't have set down her purse near the child.

meh. i agree about the purse. I do think age COULD have something to do with it, but more likely it's common sense that she's lacking. I'm guessing this woman never read any books on parenting.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

meh. i agree about the purse. I do think age COULD have something to do with it, but more likely it's common sense that she's lacking. I'm guessing this woman never read any books on parenting.

You're not going to find "Don't leave you loaded gun within reach of your child" in a parenting handbook. It's plain lack of common sense, not age-driven stupidity.

My dad has owned guns since I was born, and I never even saw them until I was old enough to go with him to the shooting range-- and my dad was slightly younger than this woman, when I was that age.

[xao92k]

What the fuck was a 68yr old woman doing with a concealed weapon permit? I doubt she could even fire the thing without keeling over.

[NocturnalRob]

What the fuck was a 68yr old woman doing with a concealed weapon permit? I doubt she could even fire the thing without keeling over.

lrn2read

[AnticorRifling]

meh. i agree about the purse. I do think age COULD have something to do with it, but more likely it's common sense that she's lacking. I'm guessing this woman never read any books on parenting.

Age, sex, etc don't have anything to do with it, neither does a book on parenting. This is all about the lack of gun safety. It didn't matter if the kid was 4 or 24. The fact is you placed a loaded weapon, I'm going to guess sans safety, within reach of someone that isn't you without making sure that other person was informed of the weapon, it's current state (loaded), etc.

Turn that gun around, shoot the bitch in the chest until the clip is empty, move on.

[Khariz]

What the fuck was a 68yr old woman doing with a concealed weapon permit? I doubt she could even fire the thing without keeling over.

She way 47, and besides that...

The 4 year old fired it.

[AnticorRifling]

As an aside I would like to see "accidents" carry some serious penalty. Have permit and one of your guns injures/kills someone, if it's stolen and you don't report it ASAP you're still accountable imo, you do hard time. Don't have a permit and a weapon that's proven to be yours injures/kills someone even more time. And this coming from a gun lover.

Lack of education and obligation is what makes guns dangerous in the wrong hands. Like any other tool when they are used in the wrong manner the expected result is less than favorable.

[Celephais]

Retroactive darwinism...

[Skeeter]

I blame video games.

[g++]

At least the hoodlum didnt get her purse!

.....im going to hell...dammit.

yah states where anyone can have a concealed weapon permit are asking for shit like this.

[Skeeter]

clearly

[thefarmer]

Since this is from my hometown, it doesn't surprise me much that a woman (of that age even) had a concealed permit.

[thefarmer]

yah states where anyone can have a concealed weapon permit are asking for shit like this.

You mean every state?

[Celephais]

yah states where anyone can have a concealed weapon permit are asking for shit like this.
I have no problem with states handing out concealed weapon permits to anyone who meets qualifications, primary of which is not being a fucking moron

If someone doesn't understand the gravity of carrying a weapon, this is the type of shit they should expect (I certainly wouldn't wish the harm upon the little girl, but I do wish the grief upon the grandmother... if we could have one without the other)

Like I said, reverse darwinism, darwin failed to claim the grandmother before she propigated, it's like final destination, death is trying to re-ravel the thread of moro procreation prevention.

[CrystalTears]

Since this is from my hometown, it doesn't surprise me much that a woman (of that age even) had a concealed permit.
You make me cry. 47 is THAT age?!

[g++]

In my mind if your a logical human being of sound mind and body who understands the gravity of carrying a fire arm on your person in public then you would not apply to carry a gun in the first place.

If your a jewelry store owner or celebrity hire a body gaurd or brinks or whatever.

Thats my opinion.

[AnticorRifling]

In my mind if your a logical human being of sound mind and body who understands the gravity of carrying a fire arm on your person in public then you would not apply to carry a gun in the first place.

If your a jewelry store owner or celebrity hire a body gaurd or brinks or whatever.

Thats my opinion.

So in your mind being prepared to defend yourself is illogical.

[NocturnalRob]

You make me cry. 47 is THAT age?!

haha...yeah, i had a chuckle at that...although 47 is pretty old.

[thefarmer]

In my mind if your a logical human being of sound mind and body who understands the gravity of carrying a fire arm on your person in public then you would not apply to carry a gun in the first place.

If your a jewelry store owner or celebrity hire a body gaurd or brinks or whatever.

Thats my opinion.

Neither of your scenario's do anything to address the actual reasons people would need/want a firearm.

[thefarmer]

You make me cry. 47 is THAT age?!

Heh.

Nah, I didn't mean it like that!

[g++]

Yes because Im accosted IN FUCKING PUBLIC every day god damn zombies. I mean I can see keeping a gun at home to defend yourself from burglaries or whatever. Carrying a gun with me to the super market is just going to ensure im going to hurt myself or a family member or kill a tail gater.

[CrystalTears]

haha...yeah, i had a chuckle at that...although 47 is pretty old.
It's so not (I'm 10 years away from it, but it's still not). :(

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

In my mind if your a logical human being of sound mind and body who understands the gravity of carrying a fire arm on your person in public then you would not apply to carry a gun in the first place.

If your a jewelry store owner or celebrity hire a body gaurd or brinks or whatever.

Thats my opinion.

That's out and out false, not to mention illogical.

[g++]

Neither of your scenario's do anything to address the actual reasons people would need/want a firearm.

Illuminate me

[CrystalTears]

Carrying a gun with me to the super market is just going to ensure im going to hurt myself or a family member or kill a tail gater.
Only if you're stupid, keep it loaded and without the safety on.

[Khariz]

Only if you're stupid, keep it loaded and without the safety on.

Holy shit! I fucking agree 100% with CT!

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Yes because Im accosted IN FUCKING PUBLIC every day god damn zombies. I mean I can see keeping a gun at home to defend yourself from burglaries or whatever. Carrying a gun with me to the super market is just going to ensure im going to hurt myself or a family member or kill a tail gater.

You seem to think that everyone who uses a gun doesn't know how to use it properly, or else the gun has a mind of it's own and likes to arbitrarily shoot random bystanders.

Also, assault/rape/etc NEVER happens in public, outside of the safety of your home!!

[AnticorRifling]

Yes because Im accosted IN FUCKING PUBLIC every day god damn zombies. I mean I can see keeping a gun at home to defend yourself from burglaries or whatever. Carrying a gun with me to the super market is just going to ensure im going to hurt myself or a family member or kill a tail gater.

So you couldn't hurt yourself at home but with the same weapon in public you all of the sudden go retarded? Gotcha.

You family members are never at your house. Check.

Having a weapon means you will instantly rage and kill a tailgater because a weapon means never having to be responsible for your emotions. Ok.


Seriously?

I've fired thousands of rounds out of my weapons, I've carried them to countless locales. To date I've racked up zero kills resulting in the discharge or misuse of said weapon. There are no accidents when firearms are involved.

You don't accidently discharge a weapon, you forget to follow your fucking training.

You don't accidently have a kid find your weapon in the house and put an extra sneeze hole in his grape, you forget to follow your fucking training.

etc. etc. etc.

[g++]

Ok why would you carry a gun unloaded concealed on your person? So you can pretend to defend yourself? Safety I kind of agree with but once again your still carrying a deadly weapon around with you needlessly which represents constant danger instead of the one in a thousand chance your going to be accosted by a complete stranger who wants to kill or rape you for no reason. I mean srsly if he demands money Id rather just give it up then blow someone away.

[NocturnalRob]

It's so not (I'm 10 years away from it, but it's still not). :(

woohoo!! 20 years away here. but i think it was mostly in reference to the fact that the older you are, your need for a concealed permit likely declines.

at least, i would assume. don't really know.

[thefarmer]

Illuminate me

Ok. These are a small portion of the people I know who have a concealed permit.

A criminal court judge.
A nurse in one of the largest prisons in town.
A college student (2 females 1 male) who live in the seedier part of collegetown.
A single mother in the ghetto who has to take the bus.

You really expect them to hire a bodyguard?

[NocturnalRob]

Also, assault/rape/etc NEVER happens in public, outside of the safety of your home!!

that's why i never leave home...

:thumbdown:

[thefarmer]

You don't accidently have a kid find your weapon in the house and put an extra sneeze hole in his grape, ...

This made me laugh really hard.

[AnticorRifling]

Ok why would you carry a gun unloaded concealed on your person? So you can pretend to defend yourself? Safety I kind of agree with but once again your still carrying a deadly weapon around with you needlessly which represents constant danger instead of the one in a thousand chance your going to be accosted by a complete stranger who wants to kill or rape you for no reason. I mean srsly if he demands money Id rather just give it up then blow someone away.


Who said anything about carrying a weapon unloaded?

It doesn't represent constant danger, it represents being ready for the off chance danger does in fact come in to play. If it was constant I'd be carrying at the ready and not concealed.

On giving the money up as opposed to firing of course. This is a last resort, not a first option. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you haven't had any formal weapons training.

[g++]

So you couldn't hurt yourself at home but with the same weapon in public you all of the sudden go retarded? Gotcha.

You family members are never at your house. Check.

Having a weapon means you will instantly rage and kill a tailgater because a weapon means never having to be responsible for your emotions. Ok.


Seriously?

I've fired thousands of rounds out of my weapons, I've carried them to countless locales. To date I've racked up zero kills resulting in the discharge or misuse of said weapon. There are no accidents when firearms are involved.

You don't accidently discharge a weapon, you forget to follow your fucking training.

You don't accidently have a kid find your weapon in the house and put an extra sneeze hole in his grape, you forget to follow your fucking training.

etc. etc. etc.

Its awsome you havent killed anyone yet. How many people have you saved?

What training? The requirements to get a concealed permit in florida are residency 21 years or older and the ability to fire a gun.

[AnticorRifling]

This made me laugh really hard.

Some people paint pictures with their words. Me I'm a paint by numbers kind of guy but I don't count too good.

[g++]

Who said anything about carrying a weapon unloaded?

It doesn't represent constant danger, it represents being ready for the off chance danger does in fact come in to play. If it was constant I'd be carrying at the ready and not concealed.

On giving the money up as opposed to firing of course. This is a last resort, not a first option. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you haven't had any formal weapons training.

I was responding to a post that apparently got deleted....

Actually it was in responce to CT post #32 Sorry about that

[Celephais]

a weapon means never having to be responsible for your emotions.
Owning a weapon means you don't have to be responsible for anything.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Ok why would you carry a gun unloaded concealed on your person? So you can pretend to defend yourself? Safety I kind of agree with but once again your still carrying a deadly weapon around with you needlessly which represents constant danger instead of the one in a thousand chance your going to be accosted by a complete stranger who wants to kill or rape you for no reason. I mean srsly if he demands money Id rather just give it up then blow someone away.

I don't know if anyone's ever assaulted you or raped you, but I'd say you're in a minority of people who would just bend over and take it up their ass rather than trying to shoot that worthless fucker between his eyes.

[thefarmer]

Its awsome you havent killed anyone yet. How many people have you saved?

What training? The requirements to get a concealed permit in florida are residency 21 years or older and the ability to fire a gun.

Most (if not all states) require at least a minimum x hours of a training class, or the completion of an approved course.

EDIT: Still waiting on your response to my answering your question.

[g++]

I don't know if anyone's ever assaulted you or raped you, but I'd say you're in a minority of people who would just bend over and take it up their ass rather than trying to shoot that worthless fucker between his eyes.


We know you cant read its cool try again.

[Celephais]

G++, the person who said "unloaded" was likely refering to "unchambered". Conceal/carry weapons are usually loaded, otherwise they're not serving their purpose.

The weapon is a last resort, you always give up the money, you pull over and let the tailgater pass, etc... unless it's some uppity squirrel, fire first, check background later.

[AnticorRifling]

Its awsome you havent killed anyone yet. How many people have you saved?

What training? The requirements to get a concealed permit in florida are residency 21 years or older and the ability to fire a gun.

How many have I saved? Just 1, but that's more than enough for me.

What training? Requirements != training. Training would be taking a course or two on your own free will and accord because you're responsible and want to extend that responsibility to your handling and conduct of the iron you can now wield.

And Celeph you know damn well I was being sarcastic (still haven't caught on to that whole [i] thing)

[g++]

G++, the person who said "unloaded" was likely refering to "unchambered". Conceal/carry weapons are usually loaded, otherwise they're not serving their purpose.

The weapon is a last resort, you always give up the money, you pull over and let the tailgater pass, etc... unless it's some uppity squirrel, fire first, check background later.

Was responding to CT god dammit I already said that, if you look at 32 my response is not SUGGESTING you carry a fucking unloaded weapon

[thefarmer]

G++, the person who said "unloaded" was likely refering to "unchambered". Conceal/carry weapons are usually loaded, otherwise they're not serving their purpose.

The weapon is a last resort, you always give up the money, you pull over and let the tailgater pass, etc... unless it's some uppity squirrel, fire first, check background later.

Clearly you don't understand the gravity of the situation.

REMEMBER: Squirrels have rights too!

[AnticorRifling]

Again I will agree that the weight of responsibility in relation to owning firearms needs to be upped. There should be some required training when you purchase your permit/weapon/etc. I don't care if it's your 100th weapon a refresher never hurt anyone.

I will disagree that owning a weapon is a bad thing that results in bad things happening just because you own a weapon. If this was the case we wouldn't be allowed to own/use most items we do today because there is a potential for harm from anything when used towards that purpose and not the intended purpose of the item in question.

[g++]

Ok. These are a small portion of the people I know who have a concealed permit.

A criminal court judge.
A nurse in one of the largest prisons in town.
A college student (2 females 1 male) who live in the seedier part of collegetown.
A single mother in the ghetto who has to take the bus.

You really expect them to hire a bodyguard?

Ok two of those people could get a concealed handgun permit in most areas the judge and the nurse. Maybe the single mother. I still wouldent carry a gun I live and work in one of the worst areas in the United States I manage to get by without pulling a gun on people.

Im against the entire populous arming itself for everyday life. You think you want every retard that cuts you off in traffic every day armed. Have a blast Ill see you at the voting booths. We not going to agree on this.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

We know you cant read its cool try again.

You're saying that it presents a greater risk than reward-- I read that just fine. You also stated you're more likely to go along with whatever your attacker wants. Which is great and well if it's a scenario like yours where he just wants your wallet and valuables.

You're trying to make it sound like dangerous/bad situations like rape and assault are a rare, off-chance. News flash: It's not. Especially not for women. If I remember correctly, more women than men carry concealed handguns and I don't think it takes a great logical leap to understand why when you see the rate at which women are the victims of said violent crimes.

Maybe to you it's not a big deal, but to a lot of women including myself, it IS a pretty big deal.

Comprende?

[CrystalTears]

G++, the person who said "unloaded" was likely refering to "unchambered". Conceal/carry weapons are usually loaded, otherwise they're not serving their purpose.Buh, yeah that. I r suck at word usage.

[thefarmer]

Im against the entire populous arming itself for everyday life. You think you want every retard that cuts you off in traffic every day armed. Have a blast Ill see you at the voting booths. We not going to agree on this.

Somehow I think that drunk/intoxicated/high drivers cause more deaths in the US than accidental shootings, yet it's pretty easy to give someone a DL.

Are you voting to limit the number of people who can drive too?

[AnticorRifling]

I still wouldent carry a gun I live and work in one of the worst areas in the United States I manage to get by without pulling a gun on people.

Im against the entire populous arming itself for everyday life. You think you want every retard that cuts you off in traffic every day armed. Have a blast Ill see you at the voting booths. We not going to agree on this.

Pulling a gun on people sounds like a offensive and not defensive act but I see what you're saying.

You don't arm for the ordinary (everyday life) you arm for the out of ordinary that could potentially happen.

Not one of us has said we want every retard to be armed, in fact I'm saying just the opposite I want every person that is armed to be properly educated.

We don't have to agree, that's the beauty of it. The problem is both sides have a problem seeing the forest for the trees imo. There should be a comprise. I'm not sure how much you keep up on weapons bills but I like to know what's going on with my weapons. One side always wants everything to be legal, the other side is ban it all let the Canadians take us over. There is middle ground there but both sides are too jackass to see it.

[g++]

You're saying that it presents a greater risk than reward-- I read that just fine. You also stated you're more likely to go along with whatever your attacker wants. Which is great and well if it's a scenario like yours where he just wants your wallet and valuables.

You're trying to make it sound like dangerous/bad situations like rape and assault are a rare, off-chance. News flash: It's not. Especially not for women. If I remember correctly, more women than men carry concealed handguns and I don't think it takes a great logical leap to understand why when you see the rate at which women are the victims of said violent crimes.

Maybe to you it's not a big deal, but to a lot of women including myself, it IS a pretty big deal.

Comprende?


<<<Ok why would you carry a gun unloaded concealed on your person? So you can pretend to defend yourself? Safety I kind of agree with but once again your still carrying a deadly weapon around with you needlessly which represents constant danger instead of the one in a thousand chance your going to be accosted by a complete stranger who wants to kill or rape you for no reason. I mean srsly if he demands money Id rather just give it up then blow someone away. >>>>

I clearly said I would give up money with no fight.

<<I don't know if anyone's ever assaulted you or raped you, but I'd say you're in a minority of people who would just bend over and take it up their ass rather than trying to shoot that worthless fucker between his eyes.>>

Now you quote me and imply I would allow myself to be raped or assaulted.

Conclusion : You cant fucking read.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Yeah sure, make sure to pull it on your next date, hes the most likely to rape you

Since most rape occurs by people the woman knows, obviously they sneak into her home and club her unconscious while she lies unaware in bed, totally unable to help herself. They would never follow her to somewhere outside of her home or attack her outside of her home.

[g++]

Somehow I think that drunk/intoxicated/high drivers cause more deaths in the US than accidental shootings, yet it's pretty easy to give someone a DL.

Are you voting to limit the number of people who can drive too?

Id vote to get old people off the road...and onto icebergs

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Conclusion : I can't fucking use logic.

Fixed for you.

[g++]

Since most rape occurs by people the woman knows, obviously they sneak into her home and club her unconscious while she lies unaware in bed, totally unable to help herself. They would never follow her to somewhere outside of her home or attack her outside of her home.

You must have been pretty quick I deleted that as soon as I posted it

[CrystalTears]

Was responding to CT god dammit I already said that, if you look at 32 my response is not SUGGESTING you carry a fucking unloaded weapon
Quit blaming me for all your blathering. Considering I was [trying] to say to you that you'd only accidentally endanger someone for carrying around a gun if you're stupid, have it chambered and no safety on. The rest of it is all your doing.

[g++]

Quit blaming me for all your blathering. Considering I was [trying] to say to you that you'd only accidentally endanger someone for carrying around a gun if you're stupid, have it chambered and no safety on. The rest of it is all your doing.

LOL

[g++]

I cant read.

Fixed for ya

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

You must have been pretty quick I deleted that as soon as I posted it

It's probably a good thing you deleted it considering how stupid the statement was.

[thefarmer]

<<<Ok why would you carry a gun unloaded concealed on your person? So you can pretend to defend yourself? Safety I kind of agree with but once again your still carrying a deadly weapon around with you needlessly which represents constant danger instead of the one in a thousand chance your going to be accosted by a complete stranger who wants to kill or rape you for no reason. I mean srsly if he demands money Id rather just give it up then blow someone away. >>>>

I clearly said I would give up money with no fight.

<<I don't know if anyone's ever assaulted you or raped you, but I'd say you're in a minority of people who would just bend over and take it up their ass rather than trying to shoot that worthless fucker between his eyes.>>

Now you quote me and imply I would allow myself to be raped or assaulted.

Conclusion : You cant fucking read.

Since you "live and work in one of the worst areas in the United States", what would you do if someone came up to you and said he'd cut you if you didn't hand over your wallet? Then when you did, said he was gonna rape you with your own severed parts?

[AnticorRifling]

Quit blaming me for all your blathering. Considering I was [trying] to say to you that you'd only accidentally endanger someone for carrying around a gun if you're stupid, have it chambered and no safety on. The rest of it is all your doing.

Wait a minute! My Px4 has a round in the hole and it doesn't have a safety that doesn't make it stupid :) but it's my weapon I can pull it apart, put it together and fire it with my eyes closed. Let the weapon get into someone else's hands in that condition...that was the stupid part.

[g++]

Since you "live and work in one of the worst areas in the United States", what would you do if someone came up to you and said he'd cut you if you didn't hand over your wallet? Then when you did, said he was gonna rape you with your own severed parts?

Id give my wallet up, then id fight. I mean I dont particularly think the odds on this happening are very large but sure ill play.

[CrystalTears]

Wait a minute! My Px4 has a round in the hole and it doesn't have a safety that doesn't make it stupid :) but it's my weapon I can pull it apart, put it together and fire it with my eyes closed. Let the weapon get into someone else's hands in that condition...that was the stupid part.
But you're not stupid, so you don't fall under that condition. :D

[g++]

It's probably a good thing you deleted it considering how stupid the statement was.

Thats why I deleted it

[AnticorRifling]

But you're not stupid, so you don't fall under that condition. :D


With weapons, no not stupid. Most everything else that's a debate. I tend to turn on the brain housing when death could be a factor.

[thefarmer]

Id give my wallet up, then id fight. I mean I dont particularly think the odds on this happening are very large but sure ill play.

Did I or anyone else say the odds of this happening were 100%? No.

Do you have life/health insurance? A savings account? Play the lotto?

If you plan your life around what the odds something are going to happen, and if it's not likely, you don't bother, why would you have those things (and I'm going to guess you do since most people do)?

Going back to my example, Ok you fight. Do you think you have a good chance of winning the fight and stopping the upcoming sodomy-with-your-own-parts? Or do you think it's possible that having a gun and knowing how to properly use it would be a little more protection than a pair of your fists?

[CrystalTears]

He has Chuck Norris fists. You will lose.

[thefarmer]

He has Chuck Norris fists. You will lose.

Even Chuck Norris knew how to use a gun, and did. Often.

http://blog.bunchout.com/images/ThestorybehindBunchOut_14722/chuck_norris4.jpg

[g++]

Did I or anyone else say the odds of this happening were 100%? No.

Do you have life/health insurance? A savings account? Play the lotto?

If you plan your life around what the odds something are going to happen, and if it's not likely, you don't bother, why would you have those things (and I'm going to guess you do since most people do)?

Going back to my example, Ok you fight. Do you think you have a good chance of winning the fight and stopping the upcoming sodomy-with-your-own-parts? Or do you think it's possible that having a gun and knowing how to properly use it would be a little more protection than a pair of your fists?

Could I beat a knife weilding dude in an alley...?

I dont know I guess my hope would be to put enough of a struggle up to run. Or get the knife or at least get stabbed enough to die or be unattractive to my homosexual knife weilding assailant in this theoretical situation.

I have health insurance and life insurance(yay ill get a good burial), I dont play the lottery. *edit* The odds of me dieng are certain, the odds of me getting sick are high. The odds of me winning the lottery or being raped in an alley by a guy with a knife are low. *edit* I can use a gun, Im an eagle scout, I dont range shoot hand guns or anything (Anticor is definately far superior to me in all aspects of weapon maintenance care and knowledge) but in a pinch I could get a round off. I still would rather take my odds with meeting jack the ripper in the alley then my chances at a mall where everyones got a 45 under their jacket every day.

[Celephais]

And Celeph you know damn well I was being sarcastic (still haven't caught on to that whole [i] thing)
I was being sarcastic too, I hate using italics.


Was responding to CT god dammit I already said that, if you look at 32 my response is not SUGGESTING you carry a fucking unloaded weapon
I knew you were responding to CT, I also knew you weren't suggesting you carry an unloaded weapon. You did suck at understanding the context of someone's words rather than the literality. It was really easy to infer that CT meant unchambered, yet you "attacked" her post on the grounds that it's stupid to carry an unloaded weapon (which a second of forethought would be enough to realize that's not what she meant). Everyone on these boards is now dumber for having listened to you.


Buh, yeah that. I r suck at word usage.
It's a forum, every now and then people post quickly/don't scrutinize every letter, but an intelligent human being can parse your meaning. I grok you.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by TheFarmer
Going back to my example, Ok you fight. Do you think you have a good chance of winning the fight and stopping the upcoming sodomy-with-your-own-parts? Or do you think it's possible that having a gun and knowing how to properly use it would be a little more protection than a pair of your fists?

What if you had a tank? or a broken bottle? homemade shiv? moltov cocktail? blowtorch? katana? This is a pretty ridiculous argument.

[g++]

I knew you were responding to CT, I also knew you weren't suggesting you carry an unloaded weapon. You did suck at understanding the context of someone's words rather than the literality. It was really easy to infer that CT meant unchambered, yet you "attacked" her post on the grounds that it's stupid to carry an unloaded weapon (which a second of forethought would be enough to realize that's not what she meant).

I was responding to like 5 different people at once. Sorry I missed whatever the hell you were talking about. I see what your talking about now but like I said I was flustered because I was responding to many different people who think I am wrong. So....Sorry.


Everyone on these boards is now dumber for having listened to you

I certainly hope so

[thefarmer]

What if you had a tank? or a broken bottle? homemade shiv? moltov cocktail? blowtorch? katana? This is a pretty ridiculous argument.

You're absolutely right. I should stop arguing that people should all carry around bottles, shivs, molotov cocktails, blowtorches and katanas and be ferried around in their own tank.

[g++]

He has Chuck Norris fists. You will lose.

http://www.bustedtees.com/secondamendment

[Sean]

Originally Posted by TheFarmer
You're absolutely right. I should stop arguing that people should all carry around bottles, shivs, molotov cocktails, blowtorches and katanas and be ferried around in their own tank.

Or you could just stop arguing in extremes. I suppose the counter argument would be what if you were robbed at knife point by a mugger who only wants your money and after you handed over your wallet the assailant notices you moving towards your pocket/coat/holster/purse/whatever and presumes its a gun and attacks you?

[BigWorm]

So you couldn't hurt yourself at home but with the same weapon in public you all of the sudden go retarded? Gotcha.

You family members are never at your house. Check.

Having a weapon means you will instantly rage and kill a tailgater because a weapon means never having to be responsible for your emotions. Ok.


Seriously?

I've fired thousands of rounds out of my weapons, I've carried them to countless locales. To date I've racked up zero kills resulting in the discharge or misuse of said weapon. There are no accidents when firearms are involved.

You don't accidently discharge a weapon, you forget to follow your fucking training.

You don't accidently have a kid find your weapon in the house and put an extra sneeze hole in his grape, you forget to follow your fucking training.

etc. etc. etc.

The singular of data is not anecdote. Just because you personally are responsible with your firearms doesn't mean that everyone will be.

[thefarmer]

Or you could just stop arguing in extremes. I suppose the counter argument would be what if you were robbed at knife point by a mugger who only wants your money and after you handed over your wallet the assailant notices you moving towards your pocket/coat/holster/purse/whatever and presumes its a gun and attacks you?

I don't see how something that could happen in real life is arguing in extremes. People do get killed in robberies.

If the person only wanted my wallet and was in the process of leaving, why would I bother reaching for a gun? I never stated a gun should be used to protect your wallet. Instead, my example was for the robber who wants to take your wallet AND your life.

[Latrinsorm]

Holy shit! I fucking agree 100% with CT!Welcome to the clique.
If this was the case we wouldn't be allowed to own/use most items we do today because there is a potential for harm from anything when used towards that purpose and not the intended purpose of the item in question.I generally agree with your sentiments on this issue, Anticor, but I'm pretty sure the only intended purpose of a gun is to hurt or kill someone. The reason for that hurting or killing isn't specified, of course, but I'm pretty sure Samuel Colt didn't think he was inventing a bottle opener.

And I think we can all agree on this much: fuck the King of England, man. He's not gonna push me around.
I don't see how something that could happen in real life is arguing in extremes. People do get killed in robberies.And people do get killed by honest-to-God accidental discharges, even from guns owned by responsible owners.

[thefarmer]

And people do get killed by honest-to-God accidental discharges, even from guns owned by responsible owners.

I've never stated otherwise.

[Celephais]

CT is the clique leader... I'd follow her anywhere... CT for PC President!

[diethx]

CT is the clique leader... I'd follow her anywhere... CT for PC President!

She has my vote :D

[AestheticDeath]

Wow some of you are totally overlooking obvious stuff. Especially you g++.

Assuming all other states issue carry permits in the same way as Texas, you won't have everyone out there carrying guns.

In Texas you have to pass an extensive background check. Some pretty small things from your past can ruin any chance of passing this. IF you can pass the background check, you then have to goto a class. Small almost stupid class, but a class nonetheless. During said class you have to pass a written test, and safety/shooting test. You have to score a certain point total to pass, with points being awarded based on how close you get to your target.

So you have to have:
- Desire to carry a gun
- Own a gun, or the funds to purchase one
- Be a solid enough citizen to pass the background check
- Pass a written test in the CHL class
- Pass a shooting test
- And all this takes months, sometimes over 6 months

And, pretty much ANYONE who wants to carry a gun bad enough (criminals etc) but can't pass the test.. Is going to have access to a gun, and carry without a permit, and also be more likely to use said gun.

So, you have 10% or more of the population out there probably already carrying a firearm without a license and are probably in circumstances where they wouldn't hesitate to use it on unsuspecting victims.

Would you rather have some protection just in case?

We already have the right to bear arms. Protect our homes and families. This just extends that right to HONEST citizens, to be able to protect themselves in areas beyond their own property.

Basically the more people who carry guns, the less likely some people are going to be shooting their way out of a situation unless its dire. The honest citizen who can earn a CHL isn't going to pull out a gun to shoot a tailgater. Especially if they have reason to believe said person also has a gun.

And assuming someone is stupid enough to abuse the right to carry a gun in public, they can easily have the right revoked, gun taken, or be fined and jailed.

As to the case in question about the 47 year old giving access to the 4 yr old child. First mistake was leaving a purse in the shopping cart. I think any woman who does this is stupid. It just gives people opportunity to take it. Leave it in the trunk or something, take your checkbook/wallet/grocery list. Leave the rest. You don't need make up or anything. If you just HAVE to have junk thats in it, be it the tampons or a phone you have no pockets for, keys etc.. Wear the damn thing.

But seriously just plan ahead, wear appropriate attire for shopping(not a dress or something without pockets).

And as far as her gun, I don't think they mentioned what it was or why it was loaded.

The purse could have been closed. Kids know how to open them. The gun could have been a revolver, which is always loaded and chambered unless you don't fill it up. Some guns don't have safeties.

All kinds up things could have added up to the accident. Any one of them probably wouldn't have been a big deal, its just when they all go together.

Just be sure and have a gun with a safety. If you carry it in your purse, wear your purse and don't leave it lying around even 2 feet away.

[g++]

So you have to have:
- Desire to carry a gun
- Own a gun, or the funds to purchase one
- Be a solid enough citizen to pass the background check
- Pass a written test in the CHL class
- Pass a shooting test
- And all this takes months, sometimes over 6 months

I really just dont think thats good enough, and its even more lax in Florida. If you need to weild deadly force for whatever reason on a daily basis you should be able to take the time to register for real training and be prepared to show good reason to a judge as to why you need to.


And, pretty much ANYONE who wants to carry a gun bad enough(criminals etc) but can't pass the test.. Is going to have access to a gun, and carry without a permit, and also be more likely to use said gun.

And face life in prison for federal firearms violations.



So, you have 10% or more of the population out there probably already carrying a firearm without a license and are probably in circumstances where they wouldn't hesitate to use it on unsuspecting victims.

My guess would be more like .01% if 1 in 10 people were illegally carrying fire arms and not hesitating to use it we would all be dead in like a week.

I havent gotten the hard numbers from an NRA pamphlet recently though.


Would you rather have some protection just in case?

I would rather no one have a gun in public aside from police, obviously you cant stop felons and criminals from carrying guns if they want to but I dont think the solution is to make deadly force available to every citizen who has managed to not be incarcerated.


We already have the right to bear arms. Protect our homes and families. This just extends that right to HONEST citizens, to be able to protect themselves in areas beyond their own property.

Just being a stand up citizen doesnt make you capable of weilding deadly force.


Basically the more people who carry guns, the less likely some people are going to be shooting their way out of a situation unless its dire. The honest citizen who can earn a CHL isn't going to pull out a gun to shoot a tailgater. Especially if they have reason to believe said person also has a gun.

Your kind of arguing that more guns will cause less shootings. I mean I see what your saying but I cant disagree more. Also honest citizens lose their shit the same as everyone else. Just think about every time you have seen an honest citizen screaming at a counter, arguing, getting thrown out of a bar, road rage etc etc. Those situations could devolve into deadly shootings if both parties are armed. Not to mention the problem the police has when they show up to diffuse the situation and get the added bonus of finding out their dealing with pissed off armed people.

[AestheticDeath]

You seem to think that guns are the only way to cause violence as well though.

Look at how many people are just bigger, stronger, or trained in boxing, and martial arts. Tons, I mean TONS, of people carry pocket knives, box cutters etc. Easy to use as deadly force. Easier than guns in some cases.

I think widespread gun ownership will decrease crime rates. Or increase the rate of death for burglers(which is just as good IMO). Less people in jail wasting our tax dollars.

Look at Australia where they banned guns. Crime rates skyrocketed.

Not only that what happens when they ban the right to bear arms, and we get invaded by China or someone? Everyone is going to get WTF pwned...

I just don't agree that anyone can tell me what I can or cannot do to protect myself. Obviously you have to be safe in how you do things, and not harm others without facing the consequences.

Barring weapons of mass destruction, how many countries would invade us, knowing that a vast majority of our citizens carried guns, and knew how to use them?

[thefarmer]

Barring weapons of mass destruction, how many countries would invade us, knowing that a vast majority of our citizens carried guns, and knew how to use them?

The commies!

http://www.movieprop.com/tvandmovie/reviews/reddawn.jpg

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Not to mention banning guns just means that law abiding citizens won't have them. Felons and law-breakers aren't going to suddenly turn in their illegally-acquired arms because the Government tells them to.

[Furrowfoot]

I really just dont think thats good enough, and its even more lax in Florida. If you need to weild deadly force for whatever reason on a daily basis you should be able to take the time to register for real training and be prepared to show good reason to a judge as to why you need to.

Maybe you've mentioned it previously, but there is a background check in Florida when you apply for your concealed weapons permit. Oddly enough concealed weapons permits are managed by the Department of Agriculture...

[AestheticDeath]

Oddly enough concealed weapons permits are managed by the Department of Agriculture...

Where'd you hear that?

[Tisket]

I grok you.

I love Heinlein references. I vote you winner of this thread just for that.

[Furrowfoot]

Where'd you hear that?

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html

What's doubly awesome, is that the name of Florida's current Department of Agriculture Comissioner is Charles Bronson.

I suppose it's because it's officially the "Department of Agriculture AND Consumer Services" ... just an odd marriage.

And I "heard it" because I used to work in the section at the Florida Department of Law Enforcement that actually processed the background checks for concealed weapon permits, so I saw the Ag. department fingerprint cards coming through all the time.

[AestheticDeath]

So that is just for Florida, or what.

[Furrowfoot]

So that is just for Florida, or what.

Yeah. Concealed weapons permits are managed state to state, rather than nationally.

[CrystalTears]

CT is the clique leader...
I so had to read that a couple of times. You really have to be careful how you spell stuff around here. This is what happens when you watch Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back one too many times. :D


Not to mention banning guns just means that law abiding citizens won't have them. Felons and law-breakers aren't going to suddenly turn in their illegally-acquired arms because the Government tells them to.
Agreed

[g++]

Not to mention banning guns just means that law abiding citizens won't have them. Felons and law-breakers aren't going to suddenly turn in their illegally-acquired arms because the Government tells them to.


Look at Australia where they banned guns. Crime rates skyrocketed.


Not suggesting a ban on guns, Im suggesting a cookie cutter way for normal people without any real reason to be armed to get concealed weapon permits is over the top.

[CrystalTears]

For them, having a gun as a means of protection is a real reason.

[AnticorRifling]

The singular of data is not anecdote. Just because you personally are responsible with your firearms doesn't mean that everyone will be.

Correct.

However I don't know everyone I know me so that's what I can comment on and it still be fact. My use of the singular is also a protest against blanket statements made about guns being instantly instruments of injury and death.

Lanistrom, you're correct Sam Colt wasn't making a can opener. But when I hunt I eat what I shoot so that rifle feeds me and my family, it's a tool.
A tool that can serve more than one purpose some good some bad but the tool doesn't make that decision the user does.

G++,

I'm still waiting on a solution from you. You're pointing out that a "cookie cutter" system is not what you want but you haven't outlined what you do want to see. For being an eagle scout I don't understand why the desire to be prepared is eluding you as a valid reason for me to have the right to purchase and carry a weapon.

Me I just want to see the list of weapons available trimmed down and accountability raised. Hell there are some weapons in my safe I'd give up with no fight if it meant I could keep my others without listening to hippies bitch. I want to see misuse of firearms carry a very heavy punishment. Your kid uses your gun to hurt himself or someone else you can expect a long jail stint, you use the gun to hurt/kill someone without just cause you should be prepared to give up what you took. Eye for an eye? Not quite but getting closer to it with guns would make me happy.

[g++]

G++,

I'm still waiting on a solution from you. You're pointing out that a "cookie cutter" system is not what you want but you haven't outlined what you do want to see. For being an eagle scout I don't understand why the desire to be prepared is eluding you as a valid reason for me to have the right to purchase and carry a weapon.

Me I just want to see the list of weapons available trimmed down and accountability raised. Hell there are some weapons in my safe I'd give up with no fight if it meant I could keep my others without listening to hippies bitch. I want to see misuse of firearms carry a very heavy punishment. Your kid uses your gun to hurt himself or someone else you can expect a long jail stint, you use the gun to hurt/kill someone without just cause you should be prepared to give up what you took. Eye for an eye? Not quite but getting closer to it with guns would make me happy.


Solution? I wasnt really putting forth a plan for utopia just saying I dont think concealed permits for the masses are a good idea. Would I feel comfortable knowing your carrying a gun...Sure. Would I feel comfortable knowing my 60 year old mother who thinks every man in the parking garage is about to kill her carrying a gun? No. The problem with issuing permits to everyone who wants one is your both equally as eligable and frankly my moms the type of person who would pick one up if she could. There are non-lethal self defense kits for sale too. I mean getting tased isnt a joke. I just think its absurd to need a deadly weapon to go shopping or jogging but you guys seem to think its a god given. Life + liberty+ pursuit of happiness+ easy access to deadly force.

Increasing the penalties for negligent gun use? Yah alright I mean you make alot of good points I still stand by my feeling people should just not have guns in public but I guess I wasnt really looking at it from the perspective of women and heavily trained gun owners. Ill keep this thread in mind though while I read fark, I can already remember one or two threads on fark where concealed permit people opened fire in a car wash and a super market as this gets more popular in the country it will be interesting seeing the body count from "Respectable Citizens".

[AnticorRifling]

Solution? I wasnt really putting forth a plan for utopia just saying I dont think concealed permits for the masses are a good idea. Would I feel comfortable knowing your carrying a gun...Sure. Would I feel comfortable knowing my 60 year old mother who thinks every man in the parking garage is about to kill her carrying a gun? No. The problem with issuing permits to everyone who wants one is your both equally as eligable and frankly my moms the type of person who would pick one up if she could. There are non-lethal self defense kits for sale too. I mean getting tased isnt a joke. I just think its absurd to need a deadly weapon to go shopping or jogging but you guys seem to think its a god given. Life + liberty+ pursuit of happiness+ easy access to deadly force.

Increasing the penalties for negligent gun use? Yah alright I mean you make alot of good points I still stand by my feeling people should just not have guns in public but I guess I wasnt really looking at it from the perspective of women and heavily trained gun owners. Ill keep this thread in mind though while I read fark, I can already remember one or two threads on fark where concealed permit people opened fire in a car wash and a super market as this gets more popular in the country it will be interesting seeing the body count from "Respectable Citizens".

You weren't looking at it from the perspective of a woman, or a trained gun owner. What perspective were you using and why, when using a narrow scope, are you set on it being the only way?

Do a search on wrongful death involving items that are not firearms, I'm betting it's a more robust return than fuck head with a pistol kills bystander.

You use the term "Respectable Citizens" after listing shit a respectable citizen wouldn't do. As soon as you pull the trigger without just cause you are no longer a respectable citizen, you're a criminal.

[thefarmer]

In my mind if your a logical human being of sound mind and body who understands the gravity of carrying a fire arm on your person in public then you would not apply to carry a gun in the first place.



Yah alright I mean you make alot of good points I still stand by my feeling people should just not have guns in public but I guess I wasnt really looking at it from the perspective of women and heavily trained gun owners. Ill keep this thread in mind though while I read fark, I can already remember one or two threads on fark where concealed permit people opened fire in a car wash and a super market as this gets more popular in the country it will be interesting seeing the body count from "Respectable Citizens".


Who says nobody changes their opinion from a discussion on an internet forum (even somewhat)?

[g++]

You weren't looking at it from the perspective of a woman, or a trained gun owner. What perspective were you using and why, when using a narrow scope, are you set on it being the only way?


Im writing from the perspective of someone who thinks about <25% of the people I know are responsible enough to carry a fire arm and fully 100% are eligable to carry one if the guns laws are the way here they are in florida or texas. I mean you can say your an awsome gun owner. Fair enough even if 90% of the people who apply for citizen concealed permits are like you that still leaves 10% of the permits resting in the hands of idiots. Im not set on my perspective being the only way but I feel like if everyone straps a gun on the minority of people who will be irresponsible will cause more problems then will be solved by everyone else being armed. I dont trust the judgement of the people around me with my life for the same reason your afraid of being mugged Im afraid of being shot by some jackass who opens fire for no reason. I fully believe a lot more problems are caused in the world by people with good intentions making terrible mistakes then by the evil people who are out to cause harm.



You use the term "Respectable Citizens" after listing shit a respectable citizen wouldn't do. As soon as you pull the trigger without just cause you are no longer a respectable citizen, you're a criminal.

Well they were respectable citizens before they had a gun in there pocket? I mean the one guy was a councilman in the car wash shooting, had a concealed weapon permit, no record. Opened fire on a guy that rear ended him. I mean its chicken egg, if the guy didnt have a gun would he still be a respectable citizen? Or was he an asshole who got a gun permit? Who knows.
If he didnt have the permit he would not have had the gun though. I dont think I would want to explain to the guy who got shot its his right to defend himself. I guess your solution would be to arm the guy who rear ended him too to give him a fighting chance. I just dont believe that.



Do a search on wrongful death involving items that are not firearms, I'm betting it's a more robust return than fuck head with a pistol kills bystander.

Later, cant right now.

[g++]

Who says nobody changes their opinion from a discussion on an internet forum (even somewhat)?

When I made the first post I was half joking/trying to be clever I didnt realize this was going to turn into a gun permit grudge match between me and the rest of the board. Honestly I wasnt even expecting a response to the first post.

[CrystalTears]

It's rather hard to dismiss a statement about states who allow concealed weapon permits are asking for this kind of thing, especially when it occurs in nearly all states*.

*I know Vermont doesn't issue them but anyone can go in the state with one from another state.

[g++]

It's rather hard to dismiss a statement about states who allow concealed weapon permits are asking for this kind of thing, especially when it occurs in nearly all states*.

*I know Vermont doesn't issue them but anyone can go in the state with one from another state.

The requirements in some states make it impossible to get a concealed weapon permit without proving an imminent threat on your life. Other states have similiar restrictions then there are states that have restrictions like over 21, background check, can fire gun. Thats pretty night and day.

[CrystalTears]

Granted, different requirements, but that wasn't what sparked this debate.

[Sean of the Thread]

What training? The requirements to get a concealed permit in florida are residency 21 years or older and the ability to fire a gun.

Wrong.

[g++]

You must be 21 years of age or older.
You must be able to demonstrate competency with a firearm.
Unless you are serving overseas in the United States Armed Forces, you must currently reside in the United States (US) AND be a US citizen or deemed a lawful permanent resident alien by Department of Homeland Security, US Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS). If you are serving overseas in the US Armed Forces, submit a copy of your deployment documentation with your application. If you are not a US citizen, submit documentation issued by the USCIS proving you are a permanent legal resident alien with proof you have resided in the state of residence (as shown on your application) for at least 90 consecutive days prior to the date the application is submitted.
Proof of residence includes, but is not limited to:

Monthly utility, telephone, power, or cable bills, which show your name and address.
Monthly pay stubs or other documentation from your employer, which show your name and address.
Monthly credit card statements, which show your name and address.
Possible Reasons for Ineligibility:

The physical inability to handle a firearm safely.
A felony conviction (unless civil and firearm rights have been restored by the convicting authority).
Having adjudication withheld or sentence suspended on a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence unless three years have elapsed since probation or other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled.
A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of violence in the last three years.
A conviction for violation of controlled substance laws or multiple arrests for such offenses.
A record of drug or alcohol abuse.
Two or more DUI convictions within the previous three years.
Being committed to a mental institution or adjudged incompetent or mentally defective.
Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm.
Having been issued a domestic violence injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force.
Renouncement of U.S. citizenship.
A dishonorable discharge from the armed forces.
Being a fugitive from justice.


Wow Actually I didnt read the whole thing all the way through the first time, One DUI isnt enough? WTF Its been mentioned multiple times and is plainly obvious felons cant own guns, so I didnt mention the background check. Whatever.

[Sean of the Thread]

I really just dont think thats good enough, and its even more lax in Florida.

Idiot for the last time. No it's not. Not only is FL more have all of those mentioned in the Texas as requirements it also requires federal background checks (FBI) and more stringent penalties for it being seen in public or used unlawfully.

Florida is a leader in gun rights and laws.

Now it's true that on the books (old laws) a Sheriff (not deputy...THE Sheriff) can sign off and give you a permit. Would NEVER happen in a million years.

[Celephais]

I love Heinlein references. I vote you winner of this thread just for that.
Huzzah for me!!


I so had to read that a couple of times. You really have to be careful how you spell stuff around here. This is what happens when you watch Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back one too many times. :D
Well... you're that too...

[g++]

Idiot for the last time. No it's not. Not only is FL more have all of those mentioned in the Texas as requirements it also requires federal background checks (FBI) and more stringent penalties for it being seen in public or used unlawfully.

Florida is a leader in gun rights and laws.

Now it's true that on the books (old laws) a Sheriff (not deputy...THE Sheriff) can sign off and give you a permit. Would NEVER happen in a million years.

Well I never actually looked at Texas's form I guess it does look less stringent than Florida, was going by what Aestetic said.

[Sean of the Thread]

Wow Actually I didnt read the whole thing all the way through the first time, One DUI isnt enough? WTF Its been mentioned multiple times and is plainly obvious felons cant own guns, so I didnt mention the background check. Whatever.

The course required wasn't bad at all except I knew most of it all ready. But for the non military non informed it is completely informative and useful.

As is the competency test at the course. Where you have to actually fire the gun at targets and score properly beginning with how you handle the pistol to the moment you put it down. Every bit of it scored. And I've seen people fail.

The background checks are not just local/state they're federal. Mine took about 6 months not to mention all the costs associated with it.

There's plenty more to get into I'm just not sure it's worth it at this point.

[g++]

The course required wasn't bad at all except I knew most of it all ready. But for the non military non informed it is completely informative and useful.

As is the competency test at the course. Where you have to actually fire the gun at targets and score properly beginning with how you handle the pistol to the moment you put it down. Every bit of it scored. And I've seen people fail.

The background checks are not just local/state they're federal. Mine took about 6 months not to mention all the costs associated with it.

There's plenty more but it's just plain simple you're far too young or immature to go any further on this topic. Go play Magic the gathering or write some java instead.

LOL You scared me off Sean2, The fact that your a gun dealer im sure has nothing to do with your stance. Get fucked.

[Sean of the Thread]

Yeah I was a little harsh at the end so I edited it out. :) Have a nice day however.

[AnticorRifling]

Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm.

I would want to see exactly what that entails.

What I would like to see:

Registering the firearm - Serial Number and a test fire to put the rifling pattern on file

Training Course Completetion - I want this to be a hard course to pass, not impossible but it's not a check in the box. Memorized weapons conditions, safety rules, a live fire with instructor review, etc.

Stricter laws for improper possesion and or use of firearms. I would like to see certain weapons illegal for carry, not to own for collection, but they couldn't be taken out of display settings.

You can't take these few instances and suddenly make them the standard for the rest of us just like I can't say because I know what I'm doing the rest of the gun fondling masses do. We have to find a middle ground that ensures hippies can hug their trees while I can shoot shit at the same time.

[AnticorRifling]

As an aside I know there are at least 5 rifles that I own that I would be willing to turn in because I can see the logic behind no civilian needing them. But since I currently can own them I do because they are fun as shit.

[g++]

Yeah I was a little harsh at the end so I edited it out. Have a nice day however.


No worries. More I think about it, you help my case. Your a guy who according to your own posts plays poker and gets drunk constantly. You have a DUI pending and somehow are also now legally armed. Its just good to know.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=27575
Drink three or more a day
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=32314
DUI case
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=31793
Black out Drunk playing cards

I feel safer.

[AnticorRifling]

No worries. More I think about it, you help my case. Your a guy who according to your own posts plays poker and gets drunk constantly. You have a DUI pending and somehow are also now legally armed. Its just good to know.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=27575
Drink three or more a day
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=32314
DUI case
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=31793
Black out Drunk playing cards

I feel safer.

How many times when he was drunk did he have his firearm? No idea.

Are you allowed to take a firearm into a place that serves booze? I know you can't take it to a bar not sure about a restaurant.

Now how many people has he hurt with his firearm(s)? Zero.

Be more worried about the car.....

Also this further undermines your case, people that care about their firearms and understand what they are for are not going to use them on a whim.

[g++]

Now how many people has he hurt with his firearm(s)? Zero.

Be more worried about the car.....

Also this further undermines your case, people that care about their firearms and understand what they are for are not going to use them on a whim.


It doesnt undermine my case that an irresponsible person has a gun and has not shot anyone yet. I dont think someone who can't control themselves should have a concealed carry permit your all like, well irresponsible people cant get the permit....Seans pretty irresponsible, hes got a permit.

[AnticorRifling]

I'll respond after lunch food calls!

[thefarmer]

It doesnt undermine my case that an irresponsible person has a gun and has not shot anyone yet. I dont think someone who can't control themselves should have a concealed carry permit your all like, well irresponsible people cant get the permit....Seans pretty irresponsible, hes got a permit.


I think you're missing his point.

Anticor means irresponsible with a gun.

Sean hasn't been irresponsible with a gun (as far as we know and it seems unlikely since he's still posting and not locked up).

If I'm wrong, well, after lunch, he'll straighten it out.

[g++]

I think you're missing his point.

Anticor means irresponsible with a gun.

Sean hasn't been irresponsible with a gun (as far as we know and it seems unlikely since he's still posting and not locked up).

If I'm wrong, well, after lunch, he'll straighten it out.

I think we both understand each others stances and think each other are misguided. Discussion is kind of pointless and no one agrees with me, so Im just going to leave it alone.

[BigWorm]

I don't have a problem with gun ownership. I just don't think that its a good idea to have everyone walking around with concealed firearms. I think carrying a gun has does a lot more to make you feel safer when it doesn't really do much for actually making you safer and in fact creates more situations like the one described in the OP that put people in danger.

And whoever said that box cutters are more deadly than guns... you're fucking retarded.

[AnticorRifling]

I think we both understand each others stances and think each other are misguided. Discussion is kind of pointless and no one agrees with me, so Im just going to leave it alone.

It's not that I don't agree with you. If fact I do on the basic level that iresponsible people should not have weapons. What I don't agree with you on is the fact that you feel everyone, by default, is iresponsible and the fact that they even own a weapon means they will at some point shoot someone.

[AnticorRifling]

I don't have a problem with gun ownership. I just don't think that its a good idea to have everyone walking around with concealed firearms. I think carrying a gun has does a lot more to make you feel safer when it doesn't really do much for actually making you safer and in fact creates more situations like the one described in the OP that put people in danger.

And whoever said that box cutters are more deadly than guns... you're fucking retarded.


Having a gun doesn't create those situations. Retards create those situations.

The gun is not the problem, the person is. If you can find a way to prevent idiots from having guns without hindering my ability to do so everyone will be happy. Until then we're going to have camps that disagree.

But X shot someone!

Great but n-x never did!

But but y shot someone!

Also great but n-y never did!

Let's ban guns from n!

Fuck you!


:)

[Stanley Burrell]

I thought grandmas were supposed to carry tasers.

[AnticorRifling]

I thought grandmas were supposed to carry tasers.

Pace makers, they carry pace makers and oyxgen cans.

[Stanley Burrell]

Grandmas are awesome.

[DeV]

Having a gun doesn't create those situations. Retards create those situations.

The gun is not the problem, the person is. If you can find a way to prevent idiots from having guns without hindering my ability to do so everyone will be happy. x2

[CrystalTears]

Well... you're that too...
I :heart: you too. Fucker. :tongue: