Space travel...

[Makkah]

I know this topic is somewhat played out, but I saw a show the other day that explained GRB's (gamma ray bursts).

Supposedly they are of the most powerful phenomenon theorized to mankind... I think the TV show compared them to 1000x as powerful as a supernova (wow). Any of you guys know anything about them? Something about anti-matter and matter colliding? Could humans ever figure a way to harness this raw energy?

rht

[imported_Kranar]

Simply put... no one has a single idea what in the Universe is capable of creating a gamma ray burst. No idea whatsoever, not a matter/anti-matter collision, not from a quasar, not from black hole, no idea. The only hypothesis available is that there is a mass collection of neutron stars that surround our galaxy and spit these bursts out (stars that rotate incredibly fast, so fast that they generate electromagnetic radiation), but that hypothesis requires some incredibly absurd conditions.

You are correct, it is the most powerful phenomenon ever observed in terms of energy. I doubt it's a matter anti-matter collision since although that is the most efficient method of generating energy, it's also the least likely to occur.

<< Could humans ever figure a way to harness this raw energy? >>

There's no reason to harness such energy. We can't even harness fusion energy.

[imported_Kranar]

Oh... and a good source for getting into this kind of information is "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking. It goes into quasars, neutron stars, matter anti-matter collisions, and even gamma rays.

It's also written with a sense of humour and good explanations that take the reader from the very first assumptions made about our universe, to modern day theoretical physics.

[Edited on 7-8-2003 by Kranar]

[Makkah]

Just because we can't harness fusion at this time, doesn't mean we never will be able to harness fusion. I'm just wondering what can be done with such immense amounts of energy as GRB...

rht

[Makkah]

Also... I don't really understand the idea of anti-matter... someone explain that in amateur/laymon's terms?


rht

[imported_Kranar]

Well, if you're talking about 2000 years down the road, sure I suppose it's possible. But in all practical terms, as it stands, there is absolutely no reason to harness this energy and absolutely no way to harness it.

I mentioned fusion for the sake of contrast. The fact that we're no where close to harnessing fusion energy should give you a general idea of how hard it's going to be to harness something trillions of times more powerful.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Also... I don't really understand the idea of anti-matter... someone explain that in amateur/laymon's terms? >>

An atom is made up of 3 components. The electron, which is negatively charged, orbits the nucleus. The nucleus is made up of protons, which are positively charged, and neutrons, which have a neutral charge.

That is matter as we know it. A balanced atom is one that has as many protons as electrons, as many positive charges as negative charges. However... in the late 1940s, in a nuclear reaction, a new type of matter was discovered. After an atom was split, a proton (positive charge) was released going off in one circular-like path. In the other completely opposite direction, was a proton with a NEGATIVE charge. Such a thing was never observed in the past.

Later on electrons were discovered that had a POSITIVE charge. A complete reversal of matter as we know it. The electron with a positive charge was called the positron, and the proton with the negative charge was called the anti-proton. Turns out that the strong atomic force (the force that binds the nucleus together) acts the same way with anti-protons, as it does with regular protons. Turns out also that the electromagnetic attraction that keeps electrons in orbit around a proton/neutron nucleus, can also keep positrons in orbit around an anti-proton/neutron nucleus.

The conclusion? Anti-atoms. If a hydrogen atom has 1 electron orbitting 1 proton, then the anti-hydrogen atom has 1 positron orbitting 1 anti-proton.

From that point on... anti-matter was researched in far more depth, and there is strong evidence to suggest that for every single electron in the universe, there is a positron, and for every single proton in the universe, there is an anti-proton.

Now... what does this have to do with energy you wonder? Simple... when a proton comes in contact with an anti-proton, they get transformed into PURE energy. It is a 100 percent conversion. When a positron comes in contact with an electron, the same thing happens.

So using E = mc^2, it would be theoretically possible to take 1 gram of protons, 1 gram of anti-protons, collide them together, and generate more energy than this planet has ever consumed in its entire 5 billion year existence. 1800000000000000 Joules of energy from 2 grams of matter, now that's nifty.

[Edited on 7-8-2003 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

Just as an aside...

Matter/anti-matter collisions are the type of energy used in Star Trek to travel at warp speeds.

[Makkah]

Okay, one question i have... does the proton lose mass when it is converted into an "anti-proton"? Because as I've always learned, the proton has relatively MUCH more mass than an electron...

Also to ask for a bit of clarification, the new anti-proton revolves around an "anti-nucleus" composed of positrons and neutrons?


rht
PS: As an aside, I never watched Star Trek, but that makes sense...

[Edited on 7-8-2003 by Makkah]

[imported_Kranar]

<< Okay, one question i have... does the proton lose mass when it is converted into an "anti-proton"? >>

Once the collision occurs, the anti-proton and the proton "vanish". They are converted ENTIRELY into energy, and that's the end of them.

Einstein proved that matter is just another form of energy in his equation E = mc^2. The goal of engineers and physicists has been to find a way to transform matter into electrical energy, or heat energy, or chemical energy, or the many other forms of energy. Thus far one can convert matter into energy using a nuclear reactor. Thing is a nuclear reactor only converts about .01 percent of matter into energy, and the other 99.99 percent remains.

So put this into perspective... in a nuclear bomb, there is about 16 kilograms of plutonium, and only 0.01 percent of that plutonium becomes energy and causes a pretty damn big explosion. With a matter/anti-matter collision, all 100 percent of the 16 kilograms of matter are converted into energy. Absolutely nothing remains. The type of explosion that would occur in such a case is so big, it would obliterate our entire solar system.

<< Because as I've always learned, the proton has relatively MUCH more mass than an electron... >>

Oh it is way heavier than an electron. But... the proton has the same mass as the anti-proton.

<< Also to ask for a bit of clarification, the new anti-proton revolves around an "anti-nucleus" composed of positrons and neutrons? >>

No, protons don't ever revolve. In a normal atom, electrons revolve around a nucleus made up of protons and neutrons. In an anti-atom, positrons revolve around a nucleus made up of anti-protons and neutrons.

[Edited on 7-8-2003 by Kranar]

[Makkah]

Okay, after cracking open my Physics book for the first time in almost a year, I see details of the positron and electron discovery. Paraphrased, it says the most common process for producing the positron is through "pair production". The process includes colliding a gamma ray with a nucleus (used is a lead plate). The result is a positron and electron (e+ and e-) with opposite orbital-movements.

Credit for the discovery of the positron is given to Carl Anderson in 1932 and Nobel Prize was awarded in 1936.

Crazy stuff.

rht

[Makkah]

I never said "protons" revolve. I was just misreading. Give me a little credit, bro... I made it through General Chem 1 (A-) and 2 (B) and Physics 1 (B) and 2 (B+).

rht

[Edited on 7-8-2003 by Makkah]

[imported_Kranar]

Yeah... I myself used to think that since they're opposites, then it would make sense that the anti-proton revolves around the positron. But such is not the case. The positron still revolves around the proton, and the two particles are exactly identical except for their charge.

It's quite strange that such a thing would exist in the first place.

[Edited on 7-8-2003 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

As another aside... Stephen Hawking makes a joke about how disasterous it would be to shake hands with your anti-self.