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Tsa`ah
08-31-2003, 03:16 PM
I just finished reading an e-mail from the company’s HR exec and I'm more than a little irate.

The letter is two fold so I'll divide the issues.

First I'm being called in Tuesday morning for a meeting to discuss my "racist" remarks.

What apparently spawned this complaint was one of several "heated" conversations between myself and a piece of glorified office furniture that inhabits the office attached to our lab.

The office furniture is a woman (who is of African decent) who has been with the company for 8 years. Word has it that her position has been imperiled numerous times due to poor job performance, yet every time she is counseled she threatens action on the basis of discrimination.

The lab is divided into 4 sections, and each section represents a department or product line. My annex is the furthest away from the office and is the most trafficked by members of my team. Due to the sensitive nature of our testing, I have strictly mandated that no unauthorized personnel enter the annex. Yet weekly this twit pins up articles from web sites and magazines that are geared toward african-americans (sorry to be so PC). I have requested that she refrain from spamming my annex and it is for many reasons.

A: Against corporate policy
B: Against my policy
C: Against ISO standards in testing
D: For her own safety (we use some pretty nasty substances)
E: Due to the sensitive information my department is responsible, no one outside of my department (with the exception of corporate reps) are allowed beyond the annex walls.

The article spam was just a minor annoyance. Her daily remarks have become almost unbearable. Even if I only have to deal with her for two hours every few days.

During the Christmas holiday I had to explain to her that not everyone was Christian, and not everyone celebrated Christmas. Of the 20 people I am over, only 3 celebrate the holiday. The rest are Arab, Jew, Asian etc.. Her decorating our annex not only violated so many policies, it offended half of my staff.

Now this came to a head last week. I was awaiting a call report from the Exec in charge of our department when the office furniture strolls into the lab and starts up a conversation.

Her: What are you doing in her so early?
Me: Big complaint out of Chicago, I'm waiting on Steve to e-mail the call report and travel itinerary.
Her: So you're going to Chicago again?
Me: Third time this month, it's probably just another instance of the customer blaming the vendor for low production. They call, I go. It's the job.
Her: Are they anywhere near JewTown?
Me: Excuse?
Her: You know, JewTown, Maxwell Street.
Me: I'm not familiar with that expression, I'm not familiar with any ethnic portions of Chicago, I know the Lakeshore and downtown areas, and I couldn't name streets though.
Her: JewTown is where all the Jews live, they own all the stores there. We used to go there for good deals. You just have to know how to Jew the Jews.
Me: You are aware that I am Jewish no?
Her: And?
Me: Exactly when should I start becoming offended? Were I to come into your office and say, "My car wouldn't start this morning so I had to (use the N word derogatory of blacks) rig my car", would you not be offended?
Her: That's not the same thing. It's not like I said kike. I will be sure to report your racist remarks to Lori (local HR director). You better hope you have a job when you get back.
Me: What ever, I'm done with you.

This sort of thing just burns my ass. Not only did I NOT instigate this conversation. I never used that "N" word. I actually said "That derogatory word that begins with an N". I used it as a reference to her usage of the word Jew.

That this woman still has a job after 8 long years of this BS goes beyond anything considered "poor" judgment. Now I have to waste a day off defending my job!!! This society is going down the crapper and fast. Faster that we allow people like this to thrive in the work place. I'm just wondering when some employers are going to grow some wrinklies and not tolerate the racial slant.

Second part of this E-mail stems from my Chicago visit. One of the Executives attached to my department does not like me at all. My guess is that I rubbed him the wrong way when our company’s president took the Pepsi account out of his hands and put it under my sole discretion. He's never been afraid to voice his opinion on this and I've always held some respect for him because of this.

Apparently though, this guy talks to the office furniture often. While in O'Hare, I lost my wallet and my travel bag ended up in Detroit. With only 75 bucks in my pocket and not being able to pick up the rental car (no ID). I had to take a cab to the customer's. The cab ride was 62 bucks... ouch. My wife wasn't home and not answering at the office. My supervisor was in Atlanta covering another customer issue, and for some reason, no one was answering at the home plant.

To make a long story short ... Not familiar with Chicago's mass transit, I asked the Plant manager of the company I was visiting about a bus or rail car to O'Hare. He sort of laughed and said "The way you're dressed, I wouldn't risk it after dark." He asked why, I explained. He offered me cash, I declined. He checked the few department heads to see if any of them lived in O'Hare's direction. None did. At that point he started making calls. I told him to not worry about it, the wife would be home soon, or my supervisor would eventually check his VM. At that point I proceeded to the floor to assess their issues when I ran into another person employed by my company. I explained what had happened and asked if he was heading to the airport. He was from another plant in Ohio, and yes, he was heading to the airport that evening. Frickin perfect. And I hitched a ride back with him.

Ok, that was long, but it didn't end there. One of the calls the customer made was to the previously mentioned Exec in our company. I didn't know who was being called, but the plant manager's demeanor was always pleasant and helpful. I've met this guy on countless other occasions and I'm the first person he tries to contact when there is a problem.

Well to shorten it down. An e-mail was sent to everyone and their uncle across the corporate e-mail server in regards to my lack of professionalism and hitting up customers for money, cab fare, a place to stay and a steak dinner.

Right now, I'm two seconds from hopping a plain to MI and ripping this guy's rectum out his nose.

The initial e-mail this sad POS shot off was bad, the subsequent replies to it are even worse. Not one of these corporate twits knows what actually went on, yet everyone is talking suspension. Losing the customer, termination, and legal action. The list is truly impressive. Yet not one of these people bothered to question the customer, or myself. I called the customer at home and the first thing he did was demand to see the e-mail, so I sent it to him through his home ISP. He just called me back and spoke to me person to person and apologized, trying to re-assure me that none of what the e-mail contained was true, he said no such thing, and he would be more than happy to speak with our companies president if need be.

At this point, I'm unsure what to do. On one hand, I actually like my job, even considering the massive amount of hours I put in on a weekly basis. On the other hand, I don't think any job is worth this type of slander.

I'm not sure if I'm going to my professional funeral Tuesday. I'm not sure what is going to happen on Tuesday, but I'm not looking forward to it.

Any advice here? What are your thoughts?

Ilvane
08-31-2003, 03:22 PM
Wait, she insults you by saying she goes to Jewtown for good deals, and turns it on you and says that you were being that way to her? Damn..

And as far as losing your wallet, things happen. Hopefully what will happen is the customer will contact the company president and fire the people who sent that e-mail around to begin with.

I wish you luck, but if you lose your job, it even seems like you deserve something better.

-A

Apollyon
08-31-2003, 03:36 PM
There is a simple solution to everything if you have the right connections. Someone pisses you off, make sure they have an 'accident' some time in the near future.

Edaarin
08-31-2003, 05:59 PM
Shit dude...there's absolutely nothing that pisses me off more than people who can't look past their own race or use it as a crutch for poor performance. Absolutely annoys the HELL out of me. I hope she gets what's coming to her. Just explain the situation to your director, there's no way that you can get in trouble for that, that's absolute BS.

I'm going to stop before I go on a rant about reverse discrimination.

AnticorRifling
08-31-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Edaarin

I'm going to stop before I go on a rant about reverse discrimination.

No such thing, discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. If some discrimates against me it is not reverse discrimination just because I am white. To me adding the word reverse somehow lessens the sting. It's discrimination.

Drew2
08-31-2003, 06:10 PM
I discriminate against mexicans because I can. I descriminate against white people because I can. Other than that, I don't discriminate at all. I think that crazy lady needed to get out of the 1960's and pick up her reality check. Discrimination is so not in.

SpunGirl
08-31-2003, 07:30 PM
Tsa'ah, people like the woman you're describing ALWAYS get thiers in the end. When you go to your meeting on Tuesday, you should relay exactly what happened the way you did here. Just because she didn't say "kike" doesn't mean what she said wasn't offensive. By saying, "I know not to Jew a Jew," she made quite a few race-based assumptions that I'm not surprised you found offensive.

This woman is the classic example of people who feel they are entitled to have the world handed to them, for whatever reason (race, sex, disability, et cetera). She's looking for a reason to put her hands in someone else's pocketes instead of working hard on her own. This WILL come back to bite her in the ass.

And if your company's HR department keeps records correctly and thoroughly, they should be able to fire her for poor job performance without fear that she'll successfully retailiate for "discrimination."

-K

Weedmage Princess
08-31-2003, 07:41 PM
Just go in there and calmly explain your case. Be polite, but don't act like you're afraid (even if you are). How to "Jew a Jew" is just as offensive and derogatory as "N----- rig a car." And you were just using an example.

Stacey
08-31-2003, 09:34 PM
The moment that the lady made the comment about Jewish people, you should have told her that you were going to report her to HR and done so. I wouldn't even try to explain to her that she was offensive. She knew better. I think that was the only thing that you did wrong in the workplace. Also, you should not have to use any portion of the office as her personal space to hang anything. I will tell you this.. Little office jokes about someone's race are not funny. I would have been offended by both of you. Even if yours was only to explain to an idiot why she shouldn't be saying them. People like her don't deserve an exaplanation of why it was wrong, she will never get it anyway.

Stacey

HarmNone
08-31-2003, 10:09 PM
Ouch. You have had a nasty week, have you not?

The "office furniture" debacle should not be too difficult to handle. HR probably feels it must react to her complaint. If she has been counselled numerous times before, as it sounds, they probably already know the drill. Just state clearly and calmly exactly what happened. You should not have any repercussions.

Is there a sign outside your annex making it clear that only authorized personnel may enter? If not, I would get one made and placed ASAP. Then, the next time she enters your domain, you can point to the sign and inform her that she is not authorized and is welcome to leave immediately. I would run that solution by HR, when you talk to them on Tuesday, as a possible way to preclude future problems with this individual.

The exec you have on your tail is a whole different zebra. The customer, trying to be helpful, created an ugly situation with which you now must deal. If this exec is talking to the office furniture, there may be some collusion between them to get back at you for thwarting their individual plans for themselves. It would not be the first time that sort of thing has happened. How many levels above yours is this exec?

I would, again, simply tell HR exactly what happened, and how it happened. The customer has made it clear that he will support you, should it become necessary.

If you enjoy your job, there is no way you should allow a couple of jerks to undermine your position. It is worth fighting for.

HarmNone

Vesi
08-31-2003, 10:32 PM
As far as the first situation, people here have given good advice about it. I used to work with people that had that attitude. I just had to attribute it to their stupidity.

Second, if that e-mail was actually sent, that was slandering you. Even if it were 100% true, do they still have that right to be spreading that around? What is your company's policy on confidentiallity? As long as the customer backs you up, I don't think you'll have a problem in that area. If this matter were so sensitive, then everyone and their brother should not have an e-mail about it. That is betraying your rights.

Vesi

Adhara
08-31-2003, 10:51 PM
My advice is, as some have said before me, to explain the facts trying very hard to stay as close to the actual words said as possible. The most important thing is to sound totally calm and coherent. If you get emotional, it will play against you. Attacking someone else in front of the boss ALWAYS looks bad even if it's the most problematic employee you're talking about. Appear composed and logical and they will be more enclined to believe you. Mention that the customer will gladly give his testimony regarding the second incident.

Oh and for the future, if at all possible, avoid the "furniture." If not possible, after this whole matter is resolved, ask whoever you answer to if you could always have a witness when you must go to the other lady. Say that you regret it must come to this but you feel that it is needed. If you wish, you can also try to bring a witness without telling the boss or supervisor. Just try as much as possible to never be totally alone with the lady.

Adhara
08-31-2003, 11:01 PM
Oh by the way, good luck and please tell us how it went.

I also vote for disciplinary actions against the person who sent the slanderous emails but... it might not be your place to request it.

Good luck! Get them tiger! The truth always wins in the end.

Vesi
08-31-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Adhara
My advice is, as some have said before me, to explain the facts trying very hard to stay as close to the actual words said as possible. The most important thing is to sound totally calm and coherent. If you get emotional, it will play against you. Attacking someone else in front of the boss ALWAYS looks bad even if it's the most problematic employee you're talking about. Appear composed and logical and they will be more enclined to believe you. Mention that the customer will gladly give his testimony regarding the second incident.

Oh and for the future, if at all possible, avoid the "furniture." If not possible, after this whole matter is resolved, ask whoever you answer to if you could always have a witness when you must go to the other lady. Say that you regret it must come to this but you feel that it is needed. If you wish, you can also try to bring a witness without telling the boss or supervisor. Just try as much as possible to never be totally alone with the lady.

Yes. What she said too.

Vesi

AnticorRifling
09-01-2003, 01:21 AM
Find the network admin, get to be buddies with him/her. Have him/her put child porn in the persons cookies and history on her machine at work. Then let someone else do the scan and find it. Problem solved. Or trash their files, my personal favorite. A civilian on base pissed me off once, I went out of my way to delete six months of stored data because I thought the HDD was corrupt :cool:

Tsa`ah
09-01-2003, 04:43 PM
I apologize for the delayed response. I just had to remove myself from this and find some distraction (Sean is great isn't he?), or spend the remainder of the holiday brooding over it.

Originally I was set on going into the meeting with blazing guns. Express how irate I was; give ultimatums, the whole spiel.

Calmer heads do prevail, thanks you guys for pointing that out.

For my part, I could have handled a few things differently, but honestly those are not the way I do things. If someone uses a word in a slanderous way, I will point it out to him or her. I take issues I have with a person to that person. When that fails, I use the systems in place. I don't feel it should be any other way.

As for my annex being marked, it is and has been for months. The proper memos were issued, and re-issued. The office furniture isn't ignorant though. Her job is to collect and catalog data. In the past months I've moved our processes from paper to PC, sometimes though some measurements and testing are recorded on paper due to lack of PCs. This is where the furniture allowed entry to the annex, to collect data that has not been submitted.

It's a pain, and I admonish my team members weekly about submitting written data upon completion. We are extremely busy and sometimes this gets over looked. The office furniture makes her way to the annex when its empty trolling for data sheets.


Originally posted by Stacey
I will tell you this.. Little office jokes about someone's race are not funny. I would have been offended by both of you.

This perplexes me. What exactly did I do that was offensive? My team, myself included, does not play pranks outside of our own annex. The pranks we do play usually involve a few quarts of water poured over a cloth covered foam lab stool. You see many wet asses at work, it's funny. No one pranks the office furniture. That is another topic all together.

You believe I shouldn't have pointed out what was offensive about her choice of wordage? I simply do not agree. HR is there to resolve issues like this, however it is each person's individual responsibility to let those that are around them know what is not acceptable in language. I used an example that she would understand. I never used the exact word, I let her draw her own conclusions. If used as an intellectual example, away from the context of conversation, offense will only be taken by the oversensitive or extreme PC.

We can sit here all day and discuss the origins and slanderous usages of the words Jew and Kike. The conversation would not be intended as an offensive discussion, but an intellectual discussion pertaining to the slanderous and insulting usage of those words. Were anyone to happen upon the conversation and become offended, that would be beyond the control of those taking part in the discussion. Where is the blame for offense to be placed? Those that are having an intellectual conversation about the context of the usage? Or the person that passed by and made no attempt to understand what was being discussed?

The answer should and would be the latter every single time.

HarmNone
09-01-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Tsa`ah
It's a pain, and I admonish my team members weekly about submitting written data upon completion. We are extremely busy and sometimes this gets over looked. The office furniture makes her way to the annex when its empty trolling for data sheets.

How about placing a small collection bin near the entrance to your annex. All members are to put their data sheets in the collection bin upon completion. Any who do not do so will have their skin removed and fed to the local alley cats. I am sure if the employees understand the importance of the situation, they will make more effort to cooperate.:)

HarmNone

No alley cats were harmed during the creation of this post

Tsa`ah
09-01-2003, 05:28 PM
:lol:

We have a hanging file tray outside of each entrance and one outside of that office.

I'll just have to start cracking down more than I have been.

Providing the meeting goes over ok, I can use this as a better justification of getting those other two PCs I've been asking for. Then we won't need no stinking office furniture.

Suppa Hobbit Mage
09-01-2003, 06:11 PM
You'll find people like that are everywhere. You shouldn't have responding with a racist remark though.

If you want to keep your job (if it is in danger as you suspect) you should go in apologetic. You are sorry for your remarks, you made a mistake. As a manager, if you have been a good employee and this is your first 'mistake', if you go in and own up to it, take responsibility and understand what you did, you'll be lucky to even get a 'written' warning in your file.

If you go in beligerant, scrapping for a fight, well... no one wins there. Explain your case, apologize for making the racial connotations. Then explain about your trip, and perhaps her rumor mongering and disregard for the rules (posters and what not, and the email rumor mongering).

As a young white male in corporate America, I've come to realize that *I* am a minority. I have to mind my P's and Q's (as we all should!) as if every conversation is a pending lawsuit. Sad fact is, the land of the free, is really the land of the free to sue.

And I agree with someone above, who said she'll get hers. They do in the end, not fast enough, but they do. Karma is great, and she is incurring some karma debt.

Stacey
09-01-2003, 10:01 PM
Yes, you should have pointed out that she was offensive but the wording you used was offensive too. Although you didn't actually say it. I don't think that lady deserved to be corrected.. She deserved to be fired. Why should you have to explain to her why she is wrong using offensive language. All you need to do is tell her that you are going to report her.
But what's done is done. I am hoping this will all be ok for you. Just from what I read you seemed really be trying to help her understand why she was wrong.

Stacey

Ben
09-01-2003, 11:37 PM
I'm not touching this topic with a 10 foot pole.

Tsa`ah
09-01-2003, 11:48 PM
That's probably a good thing Ben.

Betheny
09-01-2003, 11:59 PM
If they terminate you, I have one word for you.

Lawyer.

This woman has one thing working for her: The irate female stereotype. Other than that, she's black. I'm sorry, but she shouldn't get away with this.

AnticorRifling
09-02-2003, 01:30 PM
God I'm going to hate being a civilian....

Skirmisher
09-02-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by AnticorRifling
God I'm going to hate being a civilian....

Become a lifer!

Betheny
09-02-2003, 07:41 PM
Military guys are hot.

Tsa`ah
09-02-2003, 08:09 PM
I wanted to post this as soon as I got home earlier today, but I needed some sleep before I went back in to work.

Yes, I still have a job! Go me.

Pertaining to the claim of racist comment:

The first person I met with was Lori, the head of HR at this location. I really didn't know what to expect, but we sat down and she went over policy and then asked me if I violated anything in it. I calmly answered absolutely not. At that point she asked me to write down my perception of the events. After that she asked me to be at the conference room at 11am.

I had some coffee, discussed some product issues with my daytime counterpart and then went to the conference room as requested. Halfway there, I see the office furniture leaving the office area, and did she look pissed. Not so much as a glance in my direction or a word when she passed. That was a good sign.

While in conference, Lori read the complaint against me in front of my department heads and our company’s president. No where in the original complaint was the mention of the usage of Jew. Only my mention of the "N" word and the insinuation that I actually said it. In addition to the usage of the word kike.
My report was read, and then something unexpected, the report of someone else that happened to be in the lab at the time. I assumed it was empty, but someone from another team was in the lab. His report read nearly identically to mine. It seems he heard the office furniture bragging about how she was getting rid of me and decided to go to HR.

I was never apologetic, nor did I ever admit any wrong doing. I stood my ground calmly and it worked out. My position is secure.

After the issue of racism was concluded, our company’s president stood up with a thick stack of papers and tossed them into the middle of the table. He said that these were e-mails he had requested the IT department find on the server and print. He had read every one of them and was greatly disappointed. At that point he paged the receptionist and soon after Frank (Plant manager of the Chicago customer) walked through the door. At that point I was giddy. Frank sat down and our president kept going. He said a very minor incident occurred during a customer service call. So minor that it wasn't even an issue, yet there were more than 200 e-mails sent out over this issue that all stemmed from one e-mail that wasn't even researched. He handed a piece of paper to Frank and asked him if the contents were true. Frank read it, and then said the only grain of truth to the e-mail was about a missing wallet.

Our president said that if he could afford to fire a few hundred people, he would, but as it stood he couldn't afford to fire one person in corporate due to the work load. He mentioned apologies to Frank and then to me and that we were free to go.

Frank shook my hand outside of the conference room, winked and said "I told you I'd take care of it."

Well there you have it. My weekend drama is over. I'm still employed.

Sorry for the rambling style, but I'm running late and have to go.

Thanks for everyone's concern.

Skirmisher
09-02-2003, 08:13 PM
Great news!

Well done!

SpunGirl
09-02-2003, 08:13 PM
I hope the office furniture has to eat shit for the next three weeks. I'm glad you prevailed.

-K

AnticorRifling
09-02-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
God I'm going to hate being a civilian....

Become a lifer!

Can't, shattered a bunch of bones in my foot. Got the thanks for playing speech when I went to re-enlist. Ahh well.

------------------------------------------------------

Glad the issue was resolved in a manner that was in your favor, had it swung the other way I'd have to treat that office furniture to a printer beating ala Office Space :cool:

Weedmage Princess
09-02-2003, 08:33 PM
Good deal. Things have a way of working out..especially when you're right.

Adhara
09-02-2003, 08:37 PM
Glad to hear the good news Tsa'ah! Please do tell us if you hear about any disciplinary action taken against the lady.

Edaarin
09-02-2003, 09:03 PM
We should introduce the office furniture to Sean.

HarmNone
09-03-2003, 05:17 PM
Happy news, Tsa`ah. Karma 1, Office Furniture 0.

HarmNone