Carpentry questions

[Killer Kitten]

A group of us are starting a small cat shelter. Naturally money is an issue and it has taken us forever to find a building that meets our requirements. (Affordable, habitable, not in a 'you will die' neighborhood, plumbing and electric up to code, parking available, trash service available) That all sounds pretty basic, but I was amazed how much storefronts cost and what piss-poor condition many of them were in.

Anyhow, we've finally found a place. It's smaller than we would like, but the rent is do-able and the location is great. We've designed shelving and ramp systems for the rooms that will more than double the cats' living space.

I used to be a fair hand at building, but can't do much with my hands being so full of arthritis. The rest of the group wouldn't know how to turn on a power tool, let alone put up what is needed.

We're going to have to have this built. Does anybody here have experience with renovating a space? What I want to know is if I'd be better off (less likely to get ripped off and more likely to have the work done in a timely fashion) finding a carpenter or just going through a big outfit like Home Depot? We want it to hold together, be safe for our animals and visitors and not look like something that could win "Redneck Rube Goldberg Contraption of the Week".

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I renovated my last apartment but I did most of it myself (re-sheet rocking the walls, etc). Then again my grandfather was a carpenter and I'm good power tools, heh!

Anyway, a few things had to be done by other people (i.e. re-sanding and sealing the floors, new siding installation, window installation). I found that I got more bang for my buck by hiring a private contractor, rather than going through like you say, a Home Depot or Lowe's or the like. The price was comparable and I found the private contractors went above and beyond their call of duty to make sure I was happy with the work-- they rely a lot on referrals from happy customers so that probably has a lot to do with it. They also gave me a discount for some stuff if I let them put a sign in my yard with their company name and information for a few weeks.

[CrystalTears]

Yay for cat shelters! Go Kim! :)

I don't know shit about carpentry, nor have I dealt with contractors (yet) so I dunno.

[diethx]

My fiance is an electrician by trade, but he and his dad do all sorts of "handyman" work, like carpentry, roofing, plumbing, etc. Anyway, he suggests you hire someone to handle it for you. And especially don't bother with Home Depot, because in his experience, the people that work there don't know shit about shit.

[Killer Kitten]

It seems that a private carpenter is the way to go. What is the best way to find one? Nobody I've asked has given a glowing reference to any particular handy person. Do I look in the phone book, the local small paper? I had a guy build the cat room in my house when I first moved in, but he wasn't as thorough as I'd have liked.

[diethx]

The best way is obviously word of mouth, but if you have no one at all who can refer you to someone decent, best I can say is to try the yellow pages. Neither of us can think of another way, sorry :/

[Killer Kitten]

Don't be sorry, you were a great help! If not for your advice I'd be toddling into Home Depot tomorrow, ready to fork over our hard-earned donation money for inferior workmanship.
Instead I'll get out the little local paper and get busy.

[diethx]

One thing I would probably try to do is check out whatever company you're interested in with the better business bureau (or something similar in your area?). Just to make sure there weren't any complaints/lawsuits filed against them. A clear history isn't a guarantee there will be no issues, but it's a good sign at least.

[CrystalTears]

http://www.angieslist.com/AngiesList/

People post their opinions about local businesses there. See if you find anyone with good recommendations. Just an idea.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

You could also ask outright if they have any references that you can call and maybe see some of their work. A lot of times professional people who are selling a trade have a decent list of past customers and pictures/details about their work.

[SolitareConfinement]

i am a bath and kitchen remodeler, do yourself a favor find a contractor and not lowes or home depot...genuine hack artists i've had to clean up more than one of their messes in the past. just make sure the contractor is trustworty, don't accept the lowest charge especially if its a lot lower than the rest for a tip. if you have 5 bids from contractors and 4 of them are around 1000 and one is 500 bucks....what ever you do, do NOT choose the 500 dollar one, chances are he is leaving something major that "he couldn't foresee and now has to be an extra" and chances are you'll end up getting screwed for more than what the other bids were in the first place

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Oh, and it goes without saying.. get everything in writing, and read everything (and understand it) before signing. I know it sounds really basic but a lot of people either don't get things in writing or else they don't actually understand what they're signing and end up getting fucked over.

[diethx]

Oh, and it goes without saying.. get everything in writing, and read everything (and understand it) before signing. I know it sounds really basic but a lot of people either don't get things in writing or else they don't actually understand what they're signing and end up getting fucked over.

I don't think written contracts are usually used unless it's a large commercial job. It's almost always verbal... at least in our experience. That doesn't mean you can't ask for a paper invoice or anything, though.

[SolitareConfinement]

I don't think written contracts are usually used unless it's a large commercial job. It's almost always verbal... at least in our experience. That doesn't mean you can't ask for a paper invoice or anything, though.

personally i'd be leary if they didn't want a contract unless its very very minor. but most of the time contractors tend to prefer a contract simply to protect themselves first and foremost. contracts between contractors and subcontractors are quite verbal, as is a time and materials job....IE you pay them by the hour to do the work pretty much and the bill is what it comes to. but if the work ends up turning to a rather extensive venture id suggest getting a contractor who wants a contract

but even if you don't need a contract with them, they will always give you an invoice with the scope of work done and how long it took them for your bill so as to yet again protect them in possible future problems. (mind you this is all being based on the assumption you choose an upstanding contractor/carpenter)

[Back]

If I had a carpentry question, I would pray to Jesus to guide me. If that did not work I would pay someone else to do it.

Probably some guy named Jesus who hangs around Home Depot.

[SolitareConfinement]

ALSO just to kind of get you ready for this killer kitten, but i've read what you want to do...and depending on how many ramps and shelves you're going to need chances are what ever price you are thinking in off of the top of your head...double that.. and that is probably going to be close to your total cost of the actual project out the door. unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to understand why this type of work is so expensive, materials for starters, the overhead a general contractor has to pay, and has to turn a net profit on top of all that. for example with me to turn a net profit when i send a carpenter i pay 22.50 an hour out to a job, im charging the customer 50 dollars an hour for that man. and thats just a time and materials job. if its a full contract im charging 75 because of how innacurate bidding is, this allows for padding on the budget of contracts for myself so that im not ending up paying the customer in a sense to do the job for him.

so moral of the big long winded speech? the cost you are thinking in your head is probably about half of the real cost to give you a good idea ;-)

[diethx]

personally i'd be leary if they didn't want a contract unless its very very minor. but most of the time contractors tend to prefer a contract simply to protect themselves first and foremost. contracts between contractors and subcontractors are quite verbal, as is a time and materials job....IE you pay them by the hour to do the work pretty much and the bill is what it comes to. but if the work ends up turning to a rather extensive venture id suggest getting a contractor who wants a contract

but even if you don't need a contract with them, they will always give you an invoice with the scope of work done and how long it took them for your bill so as to yet again protect them in possible future problems. (mind you this is all being based on the assumption you choose an upstanding contractor/carpenter)

I didn't say a contract is never used, I said written contracts aren't usually used, from our experience. My fiance and his father do this for a living and they almost never have more than a verbal contract unless it's a large commercial job.

[SolitareConfinement]

and i said most of the time. not to mention you also said your fiance and his father are electricions correct? in which case a majority of their work is probably subcontract work which like i said also, is for the most part verbal

[diethx]

Um, wrong. I said they're electricians by trade, but they do everything from roofing to electrical work to plumbing. Also, a majority of their work is done on family homes, not subcontract work. Their standard electrical service calls include wiring houses, home theater setup, light installation, etc. But like I said, most of it is for the homeowners. They only have one contractor that they work with on any regular basis, and his jobs are only a small fraction of the jobs they handle.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

To me, it's better safe than sorry. Any business deal I do with anyone has a written contract-- call me paranoid but at least then if I get dicked over I have no one to blame but myself. And that's not just contractors that I get to do work for me but when I do something for someone else for pay.

[Killer Kitten]

Well, I spent last evening at a town zoning board meeting. (New definition of boring: attend a town zoning board meeting.)

One of the board members cited a town ordinance that prohibits a 'kennel' from being within 100 feet of the property line. The business next door to our building is about 300 feet away, but the property line is about 50 feet. So the zoning board prohibited the opening of a cat shelter in that building.

Back to the great building hunt. It is very frustrating - the economy in this area is terrible and a lot of commercial buildings have been sitting empty for two years or more. The owners keep holding out for a tenant who can pay big bucks, which leaves our little group SOL. Finding this building that met all of our needs and was within our budget was such a break, shame we lost it due to a technicality.

C'est la vie. We'll keep plugging away.

[Gan]

Go the contractor route.

Make sure the contractor is listed with the BBB and make sure he's bonded (insured).

HD/Lowes contractors do only whats specified/paid for. Private contractors give you more bang for the buck.

[Killer Kitten]

Thought I'd bump this to give an update. We found a storefront owned by a real cat lover who gave us a big break on the rent. The shop is in Youngstown, and the zoning was AOK to open a boutique and cat shelter.

We've been doing construction since mid-June. Randy, my cousin's ex-husband, is a carpenter and has been kind enough to donate his time, sweat and knowledge. He's pretty much built the place single-handedly, since our core group consists of me and two elderly women and I'm disabled. I mostly rip wood, fetch things and plant the screws in the drywall after he's put it up.

The materials cost is killer. We do a lot of dumpster diving and salvage everything, even nails and screws.

The result, so far, is spectacular. We've subdivided the storefront into 3 large cat rooms and a boutique. I had envisioned something that would cost little and look the part. Randy built us quality. We have a supporter whose husband is a painter and he's been in the past 2 days priming and painting.

We're hoping to open the beginning of August, spend a month working the kinks out and learning to run a business then have the official grand opening in September.

This is so exciting. At 50 years old I'm finally fulfilling my life's dream!

[Sean]

When do you expect to get you Cert. of Occupancy?

[Clove]

Mahoning county is 6.5% sales tax.

[Stanley Burrell]

If I walked into your shelter, it would look like I was clubbed with mustard gas canisters.

I think that's cool what you did. You should let folks adopt, etc.