Righting Wrongs

[Tisket]

From third grade through middle school, I went to school with this girl who had alopecia (sp?), a condition where you lose your hair, usually at a young age.

Her parents either couldn't afford a realistic wig or they couldn't find any decent ones for sale because the ones she wore was just of awful quality. Poor fit, synthetic looking, no shine. Honestly, she would have been better off leaving the wig at home. It was that bad.

Anyway, I used to tease this girl about it. Not constantly but often enough. I knew it was wrong, did it anyway. It's not something I'm at all proud of now and I don't think I was even proud of it then. I knew I was hurting her feelings.

So I was looking around for people I grew up with online and I found her address. She has a very unusual name so it wasn't at all hard to do. I just wonder, how weird it would be after all this time to send her a note apologizing. It's not been something that haunts me or anything or that I even usually think about but when I do think about it I am ashamed. I mean, I know "kids are kids" and you can't change the past, etc. but should one try if the opportunity arises?

Has anyone here been the target of bullying in school or did any of you tease others? If you were the target how would you take it if the person who teased you were to send an apology out of the blue? I mean would it just dredge up bad memories best left alone or would it be something you would appreciate?

[SolitareConfinement]

ever seen billy madison? perhaps your name will be crossed off a list if you do apologize....joking but not at the same time

[thefarmer]

I would be careful how you word it, you don't want to come off like a creepy stalker.

[Tisket]

My husband just told me I should send her a high quality wig by way of apology. Yes, I laughed! Damn. Repentance is hard.

[Keller]

I wouldn't send it. I bet she's moved on and from her perspective it could be you clearing your conscience -- and she might not believe you deserve that.

[Xaerve]

You need to sleep with your husband and stop dwelling over grade-school shit!

:)

[Tisket]

True. But might it not also allow her to blast me for my behavior and get it off her chest? If it's even something that she thinks about that is. Maybe she has forgotten and it's a bad idea to bring it up. le sigh.

[Miscast]

This reminds me of the movie Flatliners

[Tisket]

You need to sleep with your husband and stop dwelling over grade-school shit!

:)

lol he's at work, have him on aim. I could cyber him I guess...

[Tisket]

This reminds me of the movie Flatliners

How so? I thought that movie was about forced near death experiences. It's been a long time since I saw it so I'm not sure about the reference.

[Miscast]

How so? I thought that movie was about forced near death experiences. It's been a long time since I saw it so I'm not sure about the reference.
When "dead" the characters had nightmares of things they had done wrong to others in the past, and when revived these nightmares followed them back to the present real world in haunting manifestations. The only way to appease the manifestations was to right the wrongs somehow in the present.

[thefarmer]

What happens if you send it and she replies with a phonecall and fuck you?

[Bobmuhthol]

Alopecia blows.

[Tisket]

What happens if you send it and she replies with a phonecall and fuck you?

I'd be okay with that. I certainly think she'd have the right.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I can only relate my own personal story from the reverse side of the line and give you my input that way.

I was the victim of really horrible teasing in 6th grade.. it wasn't for a really bizarre condition or anything but I physically developed really rapidly and having DD's as a 12 year old gets you a lot of unwanted attention. This girl was exceptionally cruel to me-- spreading really nasty rumors, playing horrible pranks on me (i.e. stealing my normal bra while I'm in PE by breaking into my locker), make really rude comments to me to my face and behind my back.

Last year I got a letter from this girl who I hadn't seen since 7th grade.. pretty much a straight forward apology, and that it'd been bugging her and she felt ashamed/bad about making fun of me and while she knew she couldn't undo what she had said and done, that she was sorry she did it. And she's right, it didn't undo the fact that she did it, but it meant a lot to me that she at least recognized that what she did was wrong.

I highly doubt she's forgotten though-- that sort of thing sticks with you even if you move on with life. So I'll go against everyone else and say you have nothing to lose by apologizing. Chances are she already thinks you're a cruel bitch.. so what's the worse that can happen if you apologize? She says "No I don't forgive you, you bitch?".. well that was the status quo anyway.

[Methais]

and having DD's as a 12 year old gets you a lot of unwanted attention.

I don't believe you. You should post pics to prove it. Yeah.

[Xaerve]

I don't believe you. You should post pics to prove it. Yeah.


^

[Celephais]

Has anyone here been the target of bullying in school or did any of you tease others?
I've appologized to someone years later, and they took it quite well, a "yeah no problem" kinda thing. Felt really good to do so.


ever seen billy madison? perhaps your name will be crossed off a list if you do apologize....joking but not at the same time
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/9/e/7/9e7c33fa3120207b5657f7189b563859.jpg


I highly doubt she's forgotten though-- that sort of thing sticks with you even if you move on with life. So I'll go against everyone else and say you have nothing to lose by apologizing. Chances are she already thinks you're a cruel bitch.. so what's the worse that can happen if you apologize? She says "No I don't forgive you, you bitch?".. well that was the status quo anyway.
Agreed, I can think back on tons of cruel things I did as a kid, or had done to me. I don't think they affect me or other normally adjusted people , but it'd be just a nice warm fuzzy to correct them.

[thefarmer]

Agreed, I can think back on tons of cruel things I did as a kid, or had done to me. I don't think they affect me or other normally adjusted people , but it'd be just a nice warm fuzzy to correct them.

The problem is.. what if this person isn't a normally adjusted person and they take this reminder as one more reason to go all emo and cut themselves?

[Asha]

Then they can have their own thread

[Soulpieced]

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/761/761527/superbowl-xli-sierramist-combover_1170716048.jpg

[Shalla]

I don't think they affect me or other normally adjusted people , but it'd be just a nice warm fuzzy to correct them.

That. Or karma has finally got to them, and they think by apologizing after a gazillion years that it would make up, or lessen the punishment they are now experiencing.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So long as you are sincere, it never hurts to apologize for having done something mean or cruel. Realistically speaking, the worst that could probably happen is they don't believe you.

[Gan]

First off, sounds like you're starting a 12 step program.

Secondly, as earlier posters have said, she's moved on - why bring that back up? It would be different if you ran into her in person or discovered that she works with you. Yes it would be a nice gesture, but you're apologizing for your own self interests (to make you feel better) in my opinion.

Since it still seems to bother you to some degree after all these years, imagine what her response will do to you.

[thefarmer]

First off, sounds like you're starting a 12 step program.

Secondly, as earlier posters have said, she's moved on - why bring that back up? It would be different if you ran into her in person or discovered that she works with you. Yes it would be a nice gesture, but you're apologizing for your own self interests (to make you feel better) in my opinion.

Since it still seems to bother you to some degree after all these years, imagine what her response will do to you.

^^

[Tisket]

First off, sounds like you're starting a 12 step program.



I knew it was going to sound like that when I posted. This is just a new idea that I am toying with at the moment about this particular person. Thought it would be interesting to get others take on it.

I'll let you know if I suddenly have a burning need to apologize to all the people in my past I might have possibly offended though.

I am curious about why only one person has posted that they had been teased and why none have admitted to teasing others.

I mean, I can see someone who heavily teased other kids saying "move on for chrissakes!". Just as I can see those who have been teased viewing it as a source of shame, even years later. Maybe that's why few are giving that perspective. Dunno.

[Latrinsorm]

The problem is.. what if this person isn't a normally adjusted person and they take this reminder as one more reason to go all emo and cut themselves?I'll chime in for the abnormal and say that if the person in question does "go all emo and cut themselves" as a response to this gesture, they are in such a precarious position that Tisket would have no moral responsibility for their response: it's just as likely the person suddenly recalls the young Tisket's harassment and that pushes her over the edge. In a broader sense, such an assumption of fragility taken seriously would demand that no one ever talk to anyone without being presented with some kind of saneness certificate.

I think your original plan is the way to go, Tisket, and here's why:
1) If she has dealt with it and moved on with her life:

a) She might have no reaction, in which case you have expended a trivial amount of energy for no outcome.
b) She might be offended that you would still care about it, in which case she's kind of a prat and you shouldn't really worry about it.
c) She might have a positive reaction, in which case it's high fives all around.

2) If she hasn't dealt with either your specific harassment or her general (and clearly warranted) insecurity, she'll almost certainly have some kind of reaction:

a) She might suddenly feel better, in which case you'd be the sun peeking out of her lifelong overcast sky.
b) She'll probably be more upset than she was before. Though this is not a good thing in itself, if she is still where stuff like this deeply upsets her she's a time bomb and needs to get help ASAP. It's entirely conceivable that she'll reflect upon your gesture and realize this.

Personally I never really teased or was teased, but I certainly appreciate heartfelt gestures, and I think that for once I'm in the majority in that regard.

[CrystalTears]

Meh, I was teased by several, not any one specific person, at any given time. So it would be weird if any of them decided to suddenly apologize for basically being a kid/teen.

I too immediately thought of Flatliners. IMO all this does it make you feel better and nothing more. Even if she was okay with the apology, it's a little too late. It should have been done back then for it make a difference. Now it's just a selfish gesture, since that other person hasn't asked for an apology anyway.

Just my two cents.

[Kranar]

I don't understand why it's wrong to apologize because it will make you feel better. As if some how because you have a conscience that allows you to recognize when you did something wrong and compels you to correct it, you should just supress it as being a selfish reaction. Shouldn't one feel better for doing the right thing or is it only acceptable to correct ones wrongs when it makes one feel bad? So forget about the selfish argument, you feel bad because you have a conscience and it's now acting on you to do the right thing. Don't dismiss it.

I think the right thing to do would be to tell this person that what you did was wrong, and let them know you are sorry for having done it. It's nothing more than a tiny gesture that shows that person that you care and have compassion, and in my opinion that seems to be lacking more and more these days.

[Nieninque]

I don't understand why it's wrong to apologize because it will make you feel better. As if some how because you have a conscience that allows you to recognize when you did something wrong and compels you to correct it, you should just supress it as being a selfish reaction. Shouldn't one feel better for doing the right thing or is it only acceptable to correct ones wrongs when it makes one feel bad? So forget about the selfish argument, you feel bad because you have a conscience and it's now acting on you to do the right thing. Don't dismiss it.

I think the right thing to do would be to tell this person that what you did was wrong, and let them know you are sorry for having done it. It's nothing more than a tiny gesture that shows that person that you care and have compassion, and in my opinion that seems to be lacking more and more these days.

^^^

[Nieninque]

I knew it was going to sound like that when I posted. This is just a new idea that I am toying with at the moment about this particular person. Thought it would be interesting to get others take on it.

I'll let you know if I suddenly have a burning need to apologize to all the people in my past I might have possibly offended though.

I am curious about why only one person has posted that they had been teased and why none have admitted to teasing others.

I mean, I can see someone who heavily teased other kids saying "move on for chrissakes!". Just as I can see those who have been teased viewing it as a source of shame, even years later. Maybe that's why few are giving that perspective. Dunno.

I was on both sides of teasing as a kid.
You are right, kids are nasty, but as Kranar and some others have said, it doesnt hurt if, presented with the opportunity, you take responsibility for that.
If you do it so it is "out of the blue" so to speak, I think it makes it a little more genuine than if you were to bump into this person in some way and bumbled your way through an apology then.
If someone who had teased me came and apologised for stuff that happened as a kid, I wouldn't be particularly bothered one way or the other, to be honest, but I wouldn't view them badly because they had said sorry. That's just stupid.

[CrystalTears]

Eh, because I view antics in high school as just part of being a kid and growing up and don't see the huge need to apologize for it. Now if they're back in your life for some reason, then sure, reconcile and apologize. I just don't see the point of doing it years later just because you feel you need to in order to clear your own conscience when you have no idea if this is what the other person wants at all.

[Deza]

I was a pretty awkward kid. I was always writing stories and kind of living in my head, if you will. I got made fun of a lot for a lot of things and while I've gotten over the "pain of the past" there were two people who stand out more than others.

One of them sent me a message through myspace a year or so ago, apologizing for who she was back then, and wanted to get to know who I was now, etc. I wasn't interested in a friendship with who she is now, but I appreciated the apology. A lot. I thanked her and couldn't help but ask why she felt the urge to apologize in the first place. She told me that she felt better after apologizing, and honestly? I'm really happy for her.

Just, you know, not enough to include her in my life.

[Gan]

Personally I never really teased or was teased, but I certainly appreciate heartfelt gestures, and I think that for once I'm in the majority in that regard.

Bullshit. Do you know why? See below.


And because I love you all so much, here's a picture of my fairly new boots and socks, with my dungarees rolled up to my knee for better viewing!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/johnnyoldschool/IMGP2011.jpg

[Gan]

I don't understand why it's wrong to apologize because it will make you feel better. As if some how because you have a conscience that allows you to recognize when you did something wrong and compels you to correct it, you should just supress it as being a selfish reaction. Shouldn't one feel better for doing the right thing or is it only acceptable to correct ones wrongs when it makes one feel bad? So forget about the selfish argument, you feel bad because you have a conscience and it's now acting on you to do the right thing. Don't dismiss it.

I think the right thing to do would be to tell this person that what you did was wrong, and let them know you are sorry for having done it. It's nothing more than a tiny gesture that shows that person that you care and have compassion, and in my opinion that seems to be lacking more and more these days.

Because you shouldnt apologize because it makes you feel better - thats not the point of an apology. You should apologize because the apology is supposed to make the person who was wronged feel better.

By apologizing for teasing that occurred back in grade school just illustrates some deep seated inability to cope or deal with remorse for actions you took as a child. In the case of the OP - both were children where issues like that happen ALL the time. Its a fact of childhood life.

My 5 year old son smacked a girl in the mouth a few months back for calling him stupid. The reaction is because that word is probably the worst word you can utter in our house - so we as parents react strongly to it not to mention never use describing someone else.

If my son were to come to me 20 years later and say he wanted to try and contact the girl he hit to apologize (again)... I'd recommend that he have his head examined... then I'd ask to see his socks. :nutty:

[Kranar]

And on a way off-topic note, for years I always thought Latrinsorm was a man.

[Gan]

I am curious about why only one person has posted that they had been teased and why none have admitted to teasing others.
I've been on both ends of the spectrum throughout my childhood. Bottom line - its just words. Develop tough skin and dont let it get to you was the lesson learned. By getting angry over someone teasing you is simply giving that person control over you via your reactions/emotions. When that happens in competetive sports - you lose. Much the same as when you let it happen to you in life.

[Kranar]

Because you shouldnt apologize because it makes you feel better - thats not the point of an apology. You should apologize because the apology is supposed to make the person who was wronged feel better.


We disagree fundamentally on what an apology is. An apology isn't about feelings, whether they're good or bad, it's about admitting that something you did was wrong. It's a way of saying that you won't do it again, don't support it, and that there's now one less person to have to worry about perpetuating something that is wrong. People can and do apologize for things they've done to people after that person has died. I don't think they did it to make the dead person feel better. It's the principle that counts, not the feelings.

My point about the feely stuff is that if you do have a conscience, and that conscience is making you feel bad for something wrong that you did, it's perfectly legitimate to act on it. You shouldn't feel like just because you're doing something because that no good conscience of yours is compelling you to, that you're selfish and it's best to not act at all. People should feel good about doing the right thing.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Honestly, I don't think it's just a matter of thick skin. But then maybe it's because I had physical pranks played on me that interfered with my life that I feel that way, because the bullying I endured wasn't just verbal. It's not like into adulthood I carried with me all this emotional baggage because of how I was treated back then but I certainly didn't just forget and not care at all that it happened.

The example with your son just isn't the same-- if your son constantly punched this girl in the mouth anytime she said a certain word, not even to him, then no I don't think he'd need his head examined if 20 years later he felt bad about being a total asshole even as a little kid. A kid lashing out once or even twice and bullying or hurting someone else is one thing. Targeting someone and continually trying to hurt them is just a different ballgame altogether. The little girl that your son punched is far more likely to remember into her adult life someone who continually did the same thing to torment her than the one time she made some kid mad and he hit her.

To me, an apology shouldn't be made to make anyone feel better, it should be made because someone said or did something that was wrong.

[Keller]

Because you shouldnt apologize because it makes you feel better - thats not the point of an apology. You should apologize because the apology is supposed to make the person who was wronged feel better.


Agreed.

[Keller]

We disagree fundamentally on what an apology is. An apology isn't about feelings, whether they're good or bad, it's about admitting that something you did was wrong. It's a way of saying that you won't do it again, don't support it, and that there's now one less person to have to worry about perpetuating something that is wrong. People can and do apologize for things they've done to people after that person has died. I don't think they did it to make the dead person feel better. It's the principle that counts, not the feelings.

My point about the feely stuff is that if you do have a conscience, and that conscience is making you feel bad for something wrong that you did, it's perfectly legitimate to act on it. You shouldn't feel like just because you're doing something because that no good conscience of yours is compelling you to, that you're selfish and it's best to not act at all. People should feel good about doing the right thing.

You're distinguishing a confession from an apology.

[Stanley Burrell]

http://www.freefoto.com/images/01/07/01_07_2---Let-Sleeping-Dogs-Lie_web.jpg

There's an expression to go along with that .jpg.

[Kranar]

You're distinguishing a confession from an apology.


No I'm not. All apologies are a confession, but not all confessions are apologies.

[Keller]

No I'm not. All apologies are a confession, but not all confessions are apologies.

Good. Now, why do you apologize instead of confessing? What is the motivation?

[Stanley Burrell]

Good. Now, why do you apologize instead of confessing? What is the motivation?

Sunday churchgoing.

Be absolved of sin, ye who make fun of the bald.

[Stanley Burrell]

So I was looking around for people I grew up with online and I found her address.

http://diy.despair.com/output/poster57281115.jpg

[Methais]

And on a way off-topic note, for years I always thought Latrinsorm was a man.

Latrinsorm isn't a guy?

[Kranar]

Good. Now, why do you apologize instead of confessing? What is the motivation?


We can get into a semantics argument, but before we do so, the main point I'm making is that it is the correct thing to do for Tisket to write to the person who she made fun of as a child a letter stating that she understands what she did was wrong and that she wishes she had never done it.

Now, the impression I get is that you wish to argue whether this is a confession, or an apology. I argue it is an apology. In my opinion a confession is simply the admission of guilt. However, a very unethical person can admit to having done something terrible and continue to do it in the future. For an extreme example, someone can confess to affair by saying "Hahaha, I screwed your wife." The confession is just the statement of fact by an individual of having done something wrong.

An apology goes one step further, not only does the individual admit to guilt, but the individual is saying, and I repeat "that they won't do it again, don't support it, and that there's now one less person to have to worry about perpetuating something that is wrong."

That would be an apology. It's not the most important thing that the victim feels good about it, although certainly that helps. If it was just about making the victim feel better, then someone could be a really good actor, make an apology that makes the victim feel nice and warm, and then continue engaging in the wrongful act against someone else. But surely this would be considered an insincere apology.

[Methais]

http://www.freefoto.com/images/01/07/01_07_2---Let-Sleeping-Dogs-Lie_web.jpg

There's an expression to go along with that .jpg.

Dachshunds are the best.

[Latrinsorm]

Bullshit. Do you know why? See below.As hard as it may be to imagine, I didn't wear knee high (imitation) leather boots a heck of a lot in grade school. :)
Because you shouldnt apologize because it makes you feel better - thats not the point of an apology. You should apologize because the apology is supposed to make the person who was wronged feel better.Quite to the contrary, you should apologize simply because it's the right thing to do. It is entirely immaterial whether the person who was wronged feels "better" either now or in the future, although that would certainly be a bonus.
Bottom line - its just words. Develop tough skin and dont let it get to you was the lesson learned.In the same fashion, being cruel to another person is still wrong even if they don't let it get to them (and thus would still warrant an apology even if the girl in question didn't feel bad).

In short, put me in Kranar's camp on this one.
And on a way off-topic note, for years I always thought Latrinsorm was a man.Your thoughts correspond to reality! I am indeed a man.

[Kranar]

Your thoughts correspond to reality! I am indeed a man.


Right, all is well in the universe then.

[Tisket]

I doubt anyone here has lead a life that has never required giving an apology. I'm not sure why, whether it's a recent offense you are apologizing for, or one that is from childhood, matters though. Maybe because sometimes acknowledging you are/were wrong feels like admitting weakness? I mean, I'm as prideful as the next person, I don't like admitting I'm wrong either. But, even though this isn't something I'm losing sleep over, it is something that I did to another person that I regret.

And yeah, I'm definitely going to avoid making the political non-apology apology of "well I'm sorry you feel that way" bullshit type apology. Just a short note, to the point, and sincere I guess.

[Back]

The question is... are you doing it for her, or for yourself.

[Keller]

We can get into a semantics argument, but before we do so, the main point I'm making is that it is the correct thing to do for Tisket to write to the person who she made fun of as a child a letter stating that she understands what she did was wrong and that she wishes she had never done it.

Now, the impression I get is that you wish to argue whether this is a confession, or an apology. I argue it is an apology. In my opinion a confession is simply the admission of guilt. However, a very unethical person can admit to having done something terrible and continue to do it in the future. For an extreme example, someone can confess to affair by saying "Hahaha, I screwed your wife." The confession is just the statement of fact by an individual of having done something wrong.

An apology goes one step further, not only does the individual admit to guilt, but the individual is saying, and I repeat "that they won't do it again, don't support it, and that there's now one less person to have to worry about perpetuating something that is wrong."

That would be an apology. It's not the most important thing that the victim feels good about it, although certainly that helps. If it was just about making the victim feel better, then someone could be a really good actor, make an apology that makes the victim feel nice and warm, and then continue engaging in the wrongful act against someone else. But surely this would be considered an insincere apology.

So the distinction between an apology and a confession is that the perpetrator says they wont engage in the activity again? Is it necessary to apologize to the victim? Or can they apologize to thin air?

I guess my point is that I think belated (by what sounds like more than a decade) apologies to the victim sound to me more like an activity to alleviate a guilty conscience. I know that if someone from grade school wrote an apology to me I'd think they were a dick for feeling like they needed to remind me of what was an embarassing moment in order to not feel guilty. I'd rather they lived with that guilt as a reminder of what they did and why they don't want to do it again.

[Latrinsorm]

I'd rather they lived with that guilt as a reminder of what they did and why they don't want to do it again.Yeah, that sounds healthy.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

So what does that person lose, Keller, by them apologizing? Nothing. You obviously thought they were a dick in the first place, and you continue to think they're a dick. And the person who is getting apologized to loses nothing as well.

Some people would rather have the apology and admittance of guiltiness, than wonder if and hope that the other person is suffering guilt. People like that gain plenty by being apologized to.

The worst case scenario is everything staying at the status quo, the best case is that someone gains something by finally hearing an apology from someone who caused them a fair bit of torment in their formative years. There's nothing for Tisket to lose by apologizing so I really can't see why she shouldn't.

[Keller]

My point is that the victim has forgotten about it. Not that they are sitting around hoping the other person is feeling guilty. But once an apology comes, the victim is forced to consider the motivation -- and maybe it's me, but I think that an apology like that, sent to the victim, is intended to assuaged the perps guilt.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I don't think it's a fair assumption that the victim has forgotten about it. Just because I didn't sit around dwelling about the fact that a girl in the 6th grade was an absolutely horrid bitch to me doesn't mean I forgot and didn't care about the fact that she was.

And honestly, it's pretty blatantly clear where the apology is coming from-- because the person is guilty. I don't get how it's somehow offensive to the person being apologized to that the person apologizing is doing it out of guilt.. would it be better if the person had told their spouse and their spouse demanded they apologize or else they'd divorce them? Or a therapist ordered them to? Or that they feel guilty when they think about it and just want to apologize because they never did before?

Maybe to you such an apology wouldn't mean anything, and fine, then there was nothing lost by apologizing. But to plenty of people it would mean something.. which brings me back to this main point, there is nothing to lose for either of them by apologizing.

[Methais]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll154/spinarooni226/WoWScrnShot_041308_005411.jpg

[CrystalTears]

I don't think it's a fair assumption that the victim has forgotten about it. Just because I didn't sit around dwelling about the fact that a girl in the 6th grade was an absolutely horrid bitch to me doesn't mean I forgot and didn't care about the fact that she was.
Heh, doesn't sound like it's forgotten nor forgiven in any way.


Maybe to you such an apology wouldn't mean anything, and fine, then there was nothing lost by apologizing. But to plenty of people it would mean something.. which brings me back to this main point, there is nothing to lose for either of them by apologizing.
I disagree. There are obviously divided people where to some it would matter and others not. So what if this person would rather not ever hear from the offender ever again simply because they've moved on and wouldn't want to be reminded of that time in their life?

What if bringing it up, even though an apology, means now they have to relive that in their mind and get over it all over again. I know it's an example of a thin-skinned person, but not everyone is built to deal with the past well. So now the long-lost past has been reborn. Sure you'll feel better but now that person has to try to get past it... again.

I disagree that the apology shouldn't be about the other person. The whole point of apologizing is not only to clear your conscience but to try and alleviate the other person that it wasn't okay to do. Apologizing YEARS later is just a selfish act as far as I'm concerned, especially when that person has not requested nor confronted anyone regarding this past event.

[Gan]

Has anyone considered the fact that maybe this person doesnt want an apology?

Should she beforced to be confronted with an apology, even when she's not asked or given consideration for wanting one?

What then?

If the apology is truly for selfless reasons, then dont write a letter. Man up and call that person and ask if they will accept one. Speak to the person so that person can indeed respond either in kind or at least make her wishes known up front.

[Gan]

Should have made this a poll. We definately have 2 distinct camps of opinion on this.

[Tisket]

I appreciate both points of view. I really do.

And I understand that the result of apologizing to her is hardly a slam dunk. She is just as likely to tell me to fuck off and to tell me she hopes my children and my children's children should suffer what she suffered. There's a very real possibility she won't respond the way I want or perhaps, at all.

But, if she is still bitter enough she won't even consider an apology from me then maybe offering her an opportunity to revile me is a gift? I don't know.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Heh, doesn't sound like it's forgotten nor forgiven in any way.


I disagree. There are obviously divided people where to some it would matter and others not. So what if this person would rather not ever hear from the offender ever again simply because they've moved on and wouldn't want to be reminded of that time in their life?

What if bringing it up, even though an apology, means now they have to relive that in their mind and get over it all over again. I know it's an example of a thin-skinned person, but not everyone is built to deal with the past well. So now the long-lost past has been reborn. Sure you'll feel better but now that person has to try to get past it... again.

I disagree that the apology shouldn't be about the other person. The whole point of apologizing is not only to clear your conscience but to try and alleviate the other person that it wasn't okay to do. Apologizing YEARS later is just a selfish act as far as I'm concerned, especially when that person has not requested nor confronted anyone regarding this past event.

It'll never be forgotten as far as I'm concerned. When I end up having kids if I ever hear about them doing to someone else what was done to me I'll skin them alive. It's not like that means that I spend all of my hours or even a noticeable amount of my time thinking about it-- but when I do it is something that has lasted and stuck with me. Did I forgive her? Yeah, I forgave her for it long before she ever apologized. But you don't have to stop thinking it was a shitty thing to forgive someone, and it didn't render her apology totally useless. That doesn't make me thin-skinned, either.

The way I see it, taking into account BOTH sides, she could either want the apology or not want it. There's no way to know without talking to her, which leaves the person with the lingering guilt to decide. Do you want to apologize, or not? Every single thing we do can be traced back down to selfishness, so it's gonna rest on Tisket's shoulders anyway. I just think the responses of "OMG she'll have forgotten, don't remind her or she'll cut herself!" are retarded.

[CrystalTears]

And if apologizing is that important, it needs to be on the phone or in person. Getting a letter seems that much more distant and insincere, imo.

[ViridianAsp]

I was teased in school for many, many things, when I was younger I didn't speak a lot because I had speech problems, on top of that I had learning disabilities they labeled me a slow learner and wouldn't acknowledge my dyslexia as a disability back then.

I was teased from Kindergarten to third grade for that, then I was taken out of school and put in homeschooling. I gained weight, so it shifted from my speech to my weight through junior high. But when I slimmed down, I was still an outcast, why? I still don't know, but I was always singled out and messed with, usually by other girls, they'd try to pick fights with me, this happened up until my sophomore year. This among other things it was a reason I went back into independent study.

People did and said cruel things to me. No one has apologized, would I accept an apology if someone gave it? I would, it wouldn't make what they did go away, but at least they'd know what they did was wrong and they were remorseful.

[Latrinsorm]

Has anyone considered the fact that maybe this person doesnt want an apology?

Should she beforced to be confronted with an apology, even when she's not asked or given consideration for wanting one?

What then?

If the apology is truly for selfless reasons, then dont write a letter. Man up and call that person and ask if they will accept one. Speak to the person so that person can indeed respond either in kind or at least make her wishes known up front.Your suggestion makes no sense. Asking her if she wants to "accept" the mere statement of an apology is just as much confrontational "force" as offering it in itself. Furthermore, she's just as capable of responding in text as she is in voice, and if you're really concerned with her emotional makeup you wouldn't put her on the spot to respond immediately.

No one else sees the irony between Gan's and CT's motivations here? One finds the act egregiously intrusive while one doesn't find it nearly intimate enough?

[Shalla]

I think you should just leave her alone simply because the apology won't undo the past, which undoubtedly took a long time to get over. In addition, you are not doing her any favours by reminding her of it. At this point, if you are truly sincere about it, teach your kids not to do the same mistake, explain to them why people are not to be judged, teach them to be more tolerant of others, and to treat people the same way they wanted to be treated if they are in that position. Make them appreciate their blessings, and to stand up for others including themselves. I'm sure she is doing the same thing to her own kids.

[Tisket]

At this point, if you are truly sincere about it, teach your kids not to do the same mistake, explain to them why people are not to be judged, teach them to be more tolerant of others, and to treat people the same way they wanted to be treated if they are in that position.

What I'd like to do is teach my kids that accepting responsibility for wrongdoing isn't something to be avoided. That there is no time limit on making amends. What better way than demonstrating that?

[Shalla]

That's true, but you also have to take the person you're apologizing to into consideration; you are basically reminding her of the past, and I don't think she would appreciate it. You also run the risk of giving the impression that waiting a really long time to apologize would somehow undo some of the pain when it is already done. Teach your kids that you are human, and your responsibility at this point is to make sure your kids don't do the same mistakes, and you don't want them going through the same situation as she did, and the same situation you are in now.

Edit: Of course there is no time limit with making amends, but you can do that by changing your ways.. Do you think you are a changed person? Do you still make fun, tease, or judge others now? I didn't think your husband's joke was very funny at all, personally, I would not have laughed about it. Sometimes an apology does not make things better.. Taking responsibility for your actions does not necessarily mean you have to go apologize to the person for it.

[Drew2]

And on a way off-topic note, for years I always thought Latrinsorm was a man.

LOLOLOLOL

[CrystalTears]

No one else sees the irony between Gan's and CT's motivations here? One finds the act egregiously intrusive while one doesn't find it nearly intimate enough?
I don't think it should be done, but if you're going to do it, at least do it on the phone or in person. Sending a letter (for me) has always been impersonal. It's like a Dear John letter where you weren't brave enough to confront the person in the first place. Well if you're that eager to bring up the painful past to make amends, at least go the whole way.

[Shalla]

If she feels the need, I would go for in person as well.

[Tisket]

The thing is, whenever I have been caught off guard about something, the thing that has bothered me the most, after the fact, is all the things I wish I had said that I didn't think about at the time because I was unprepared.

I'd like her, if she chooses to respond at all, to have time to think about it without the pressure of needing to say something immediately. It seems more passive/aggressive to put her on the spot for an immediate response. I think it should be at a time of her choosing and convenience, not mine.

[Kranar]

I couldn't disagree more with the idea of apologizing in person.

There are two aspects of this apology. There is the question of whether it is the correct thing to do (which I think it is), and then there is the question of how to do it. If you do it, don't just confront a person you haven't seen in years out of the blue and apologize. For all you know you could be phoning the person while their in the middle of doing business or eating dinner or God knows what. You certainly don't want to be pre-emptive about the apology.

Think your apology through in full, write it out, and then send it. That way the person has time to think about it, you don't have to worry about making a clumsy gesture or catching the person at an inopportune moment, both of which would cause for a distraction from your message. If they are thankful for it, they then can let you know by replying on their own terms and they won't feel put on the spot to either accept or reject your apology there and then.

I think writing out the apology allows for a more delicate presentation than a pre-emptive phone call.

[Tisket]

In before Kranar. W00t!

[Shalla]

Well of course it has to be handled delicately. Confronting a person is awkward, and I think a letter is cowardly; however, a combination of both might work. Travel to where she is for a few days, assuming she won't recognize you, hand deliver a letter stating who you are, with a well thought out apology, your purpose for going there, and an invitation to meet at a specific location (public, and in the same week) where you will be waiting for her if she feels the need to vent and for you to soak it in. That is.. if you feel the need to apologize.

I really don't think re-introducing yourself into the woman's life will make her feel better. How would it? I really think you should just leave it alone.

-Bleh- Someone just reminded when Tisket said at one point that she doesn't get why ANYBODY would care about what I think.. I completely forgot, so I'll stop posting, and let her handle her problem.

[Latrinsorm]

Travel to where she is for a few days, assuming she won't recognize you, hand deliver a letter stating who you are, with a well thought out apology, your purpose for going there, and an invitation to meet at a specific location (public, and in the same week) where you will be waiting for her if she feels the need to vent and for you to soak it in.I wouldn't be surprised if she called the police following an interchange like that.

[Gan]

Your suggestion makes no sense. Asking her if she wants to "accept" the mere statement of an apology is just as much confrontational "force" as offering it in itself.
So it should be forced upon her. And you say I dont make any sense? LOL



Furthermore, she's just as capable of responding in text as she is in voice, and if you're really concerned with her emotional makeup you wouldn't put her on the spot to respond immediately.
Reading comprehension FTL. I said ask first - dont just jump right in.



No one else sees the irony between Gan's and CT's motivations here? One finds the act egregiously intrusive while one doesn't find it nearly intimate enough?
Thats because nobody is misinterpreting what we're saying as bad as you are.

I find it self serving (selfish) to want to apologize after all these years to begin with. Furthermore I find it very callous to force an apology upon her without asking if its ok. You're so high and mighty on do the right thing, when in fact the act of throwing out a decade's late apology for a childish transgression without asking first if its ok is just as inconsiderate of the previously offended's sensibilities as the original offense was.

Instead of being so concerned with the person who's having coping and remorse issues, why not think about IF the target of said actions (for the 2nd time) even wants to be a party to it.

[Gan]

I don't think it should be done, but if you're going to do it, at least do it on the phone or in person. Sending a letter (for me) has always been impersonal. It's like a Dear John letter where you weren't brave enough to confront the person in the first place. Well if you're that eager to bring up the painful past to make amends, at least go the whole way.

Someone gets it.

A written apology letter is just like a dear john letter.

I liken it to cowardice.

[Kyra231]

I couldn't disagree more with the idea of apologizing in person.

There are two aspects of this apology. There is the question of whether it is the correct thing to do (which I think it is), and then there is the question of how to do it. If you do it, don't just confront a person you haven't seen in years out of the blue and apologize. For all you know you could be phoning the person while their in the middle of doing business or eating dinner or God knows what. You certainly don't want to be pre-emptive about the apology.

Think your apology through in full, write it out, and then send it. That way the person has time to think about it, you don't have to worry about making a clumsy gesture or catching the person at an inopportune moment, both of which would cause for a distraction from your message. If they are thankful for it, they then can let you know by replying on their own terms and they won't feel put on the spot to either accept or reject your apology there and then.

I think writing out the apology allows for a more delicate presentation than a pre-emptive phone call.

I couldn't agree with Kranar more, I think mailing it would be much better, you never know what they may be going through or in the middle of & a letter would give them more time to decide what, if any, course of action they would like to take regarding your apology.

I also think it's a damn decent thing of you to do(I had some fun times at the hands of some spoiled little bastards in school before I learned how to push their buttons back).

~K.

[CrystalTears]

I'll give you an example of how a letter doesn't work, which is why I have the attitude I have about it now.

In high school, I had a male and a female best friend. We did everything together. At one point the male hurt myself and my female best friend. We vowed never to speak to him again. A week later he came to me and asked me to forgive him. I had this secret crush on him so I did. Because I broke my pact with her, she stopped being my friend because she felt I betrayed her. We fought a lot over that and her mother told her to never trust me again.

A few years later I wrote her a letter explaining to her what happened and how sorry I was for mistreating her. She wrote me back... a very short note.. basically saying to never write to her again, that me not even having the balls to call her made the whole situation worse.

Granted it's not exactly the same situation but it's close enough for me to consider that apologies at any time in any way is not always welcome or wanted.

[Latrinsorm]

So it should be forced upon her.By your definition of "force", it's impossible to do anything but unless you never communicate with anyone. That's a silly (and exceedingly dangerous) way of resolving conflicts.
Reading comprehension FTL. I said ask first - dont just jump right in.So you seriously think someone coming up to you after 10-15(-20?-25? how old is Tisket?) years and saying "I would like to apologize to you for some as of yet unspecified childhood act of malice, you think that might be what you fancy?" would be significantly less intrusive than a letter (which tends to come in an envelope) coming right out and saying it? Even if you persist in your position, how hard would it be for the first line of the letter to say exactly what you want Tisket to start out with? Isn't it a hell of a lot easier to throw a letter in the trash than to run away from a person who's tracked you down in person?
Thats because nobody is misinterpreting what we're saying as bad as you are.I think you overestimate the motivational solidarity amongst the former semi-conservatives on this issue.
You're so high and mighty on do the right thing, when in fact the act of throwing out a decade's late apology for a childish transgression without asking first if its ok is just as inconsiderate of the previously offended's sensibilities as the original offense was.Again, this is self-contradictory. If Tisket didn't care about the "offended's sensibilities", she wouldn't feel bad about the offending. The act of apologizing, no matter how clumsy you feel it is, necessarily implies that Tisket has grown to care about this person from before.
Instead of being so concerned with the person who's having coping and remorse issues, why not think about IF the target of said actions (for the 2nd time) even wants to be a party to it.I clearly already have; I even made a neat little list out of it. I didn't even know we could do that on the PC.
A written apology letter is just like a dear john letter.

I liken it to cowardice.The simile is deeply flawed: A dear john letter is the termination of a relationship, but here there is no current relationship to terminate. If Tisket wanted to avoid confrontation, she could easily do nothing and have a reasonable expectation that she would never meet this girl again.

[Tisket]

I should mention that the girl lives two states away so the in person apology might be problematic anyway.

Even if she lived one street over though I wouldn't try for an in person apology. It just strikes me as too confrontational.

[Gan]

By your definition of "force", it's impossible to do anything but unless you never communicate with anyone. That's a silly (and exceedingly dangerous) way of resolving conflicts.
So is just writing someone a letter. Quit focusing on the minute specificity of being 'face to face'. We do have neat inventions called phones.


So you seriously think someone coming up to you after 10-15(-20?-25? how old is Tisket?) years and saying "I would like to apologize to you for some as of yet unspecified childhood act of malice, you think that might be what you fancy?" would be significantly less intrusive than a letter (which tends to come in an envelope) coming right out and saying it?
I think it sounds just as crazy in the form of a letter!!! Its a stupid idea to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! (can you get that point?)


Even if you persist in your position, how hard would it be for the first line of the letter to say exactly what you want Tisket to start out with? Isn't it a hell of a lot easier to throw a letter in the trash than to run away from a person who's tracked you down in person?
Wow you're simply being obtusely idiotic. You can STFU now.


I think you overestimate the motivational solidarity amongst the former semi-conservatives on this issue.
And I think you're suffering from constricted blood flow to your lower extremities caused by wearing your knee-high's too tight.


Again, this is self-contradictory. If Tisket didn't care about the "offended's sensibilities", she wouldn't feel bad about the offending.
Then why is the act of asking permission for forcing oneself back into the victim's life such a hard thing to grasp? Obviously you're the type to force yourself onto others regardless of whether or not they want the attention. Here's a idea for you to try. Next time you feel the need to apologize - ask the person first, its a great thing to do.


The act of apologizing, no matter how clumsy you feel it is, necessarily implies that Tisket has grown to care about this person from before.
Do you actually read the shit you spew here? Care's more about a person who lives 2 hours away, who's never been in contact with said person since grade school? WTFBBQ? Go back and reread the OP. The underlying theme of the OP was a deep need to apologize, a deep seated guilt. This has nothing to do with asuaging some wrongdoing decades past.... its about helping Tisket cope with some wierd sense of guilt or regret. Are ou sure you're not projecting your own sense of self rightous into this scenario?


The simile is deeply flawed: A dear john letter is the termination of a relationship, but here there is no current relationship to terminate.
Not according to your previous post. And you fail yet again to understand the coorelation. :clap:


If Tisket wanted to avoid confrontation, she could easily do nothing and have a reasonable expectation that she would never meet this girl again.
DING DING DING. You've hit on the solution some of us have recommended all along! :clap:

[Kranar]

I'll give you an example of how a letter doesn't work, which is why I have the attitude I have about it now.


Now in your situation I agree, a letter does not work. In most circumstances, in fact, I would agree that it's best to apologize in person. If you know the person well, were close friends, or family, apologize in person by all means.

But if you haven't seen a person in years, possibly decades, you have no idea what they do, what their personality is like. Don't just phone them up and then apologize to someone you realistically don't know anymore. I can't imagine anything being more distracting, akward, and confrontational then someone I haven't seen in 10 or 15 years come out of nowhere and phone me to apologize for something. It would simply distract from what you're trying to say.

Also... how does one ask for permission to apologize?

"Hello, I'd like to apologize to you, do I have permission to proceed?"

[Gan]

Here's a neat invention that some of us use when we want to talk with someone real time but cant get there face to face...

http://openclipart.org/people/Darth_Gimp/Darth_Gimp_Cordless_Phone.png

[Gan]

Also... how does one ask for permission to apologize?

"Hello, I'd like to apologize to you, do I have permission to proceed?"

Hi, I'm so and so way back from gradeschool who used to make fun of you. You'll probably think I'm crazy but if its ok with you... (grand pause) I'd like to apologize for my actions back then. If she says its ok then you proceed and actually apologize....

This is where the 'victim' either blasts you for being an idiot... says dont worry about it... or gets all emo and wants a hug... or sues you for years of pain and suffering.

By putting it in a letter, you're conveniently dodging any response you probably deserve for such an act of idiocy.

[Tisket]

I had no idea my little introspective, middle-of-the-night thread would cause such an emotional response from you Gan.

[Kranar]

It's an interesting topic that has quite a high view count for a weekend thread.

[Gan]

I had no idea my little introspective, middle-of-the-night thread would cause such an emotional response from you Gan.

Actually, it matters naught (to me) what you do to be honest. I gave my initial opinion early on. Its just Latrin's pedantic splinter post obtusity that has evoked my ire.

Bottom line, you do what you want, whatever makes you feel better. Just dont be suprised if the target of your actions thinks you're either just starting the 12 step program or a little looney. :shrug:

[Tisket]

I'm embarrassed to remind people but, as I stated in the OP, this behavior of mine encompassed at least a five year time frame. Some have said it was just childish behavior, etc. but should we be that quick to dismiss cruelty? That I should get a Get Out of Jail Free card because of my age?

[Tisket]

Actually, it matters naught (to me) what you do to be honest.

I know dude, you are just passionate. It's all good.

[Gan]

Being passionate about things is good.

My wife agrees. ;)

[Brattt8525]

I'm embarrassed to remind people but, as I stated in the OP, this behavior of mine encompassed at least a five year time frame. Some have said it was just childish behavior, etc. but should we be that quick to dismiss cruelty? That I should get a Get Out of Jail Free card because of my age?

I guess you have to ask yourself 2 questions.

1> Am I wanting to do this to make myself feel better about acting like a typical elementary student.

2> Do I think that my saying sorry for making fun of this person <insert X amount of years> ago will somehow make them feel better.

Let it go, I have yet to meet anyone who at one point during their school years was not made fun of or teased about *something*.

You wanting to say sorry for something you apparently did from grades 3-7th/8th grade will not change who or what this person is/feels etc.

[landy]

You could do like Cartman did when he thought he was a ghost, just make her a fruit basket and leave it on her doorstep.

Honestly though, what you did back then has contributed to making her the person she is today, she is probably stronger for having endured it. You know you're sorry, she on the other hand probably rarely or never thinks of you, and while the apology may make you feel a great deal better if well received, it's certainly not going to make any lasting impact on either of your lives.

[Kyra231]

Here's a neat invention that some of us use when we want to talk with someone real time but cant get there face to face...

http://openclipart.org/people/Darth_Gimp/Darth_Gimp_Cordless_Phone.png

And you could very easily be calling in the middle of a business phone call, a goodbye to someone, trying to finish closing a house, 10 million things that are going to make that interruption = the apology blowing up in your face.

At least via letter they have the option of setting it aside until they have the time & energy to focus on it.

Enclosing your phone number & a reason you picked letter instead of phone would not be an out of the way option.

Personally were someone who was a dick to me in school to choose a way to contact, I'd prefer a letter or an email rather than a phone call, it's much less confrontational & gives time to think over how you want to take it.

~K.

[Daniel]

Bullshit. Do you know why? See below.

I don't know. Maybe Latrin is such a bad ass motherfucker that people don't even think about talking shit about his incredibly gay socks.

[Latrinsorm]

Then why is the act of asking permission for forcing oneself back into the victim's life such a hard thing to grasp?Because the act of asking is concomitant with "forcing oneself". It's exactly analogous to saying "can I ask a question?": you already have.
Care's more about a person who lives 2 hours away, who's never been in contact with said person since grade school?Before, Tisket didn't care about the other person's feelings. Now she does, or she wouldn't feel "a deep seated guilt".

More broadly, I would like to point out to you that a person can care for another without having met them and for that matter without the second person even existing. This is the fundamental premise behind storytelling. With this in mind, it's not at all peculiar for Tisket to care more about someone even though she hasn't spoken with her in years.
Are ou sure you're not projecting your own sense of self rightous into this scenario?I would say I'm significantly more detached from this scenario than you are, for whatever reason.
Not according to your previous post.This goes back to my previous point: caring about someone doesn't imply that the two people are in an active relationship. Caring can be unilateral and for that matter anonymous, a relationship cannot.
You've hit on the solution some of us have recommended all along!"Ignore the problem and hope it goes away" isn't a solution, it's a capitulation.
I don't know. Maybe Latrin is such a bad ass motherfucker that people don't even think about talking shit about his incredibly gay socks.Yeah, that's the ticket!

[Stanley Burrell]

"a deep seated guilt"

All this time I was using "deep-seeded." Ugh, embarrassment.

[Gan]

I don't know. Maybe Latrin is such a bad ass motherfucker that people don't even think about talking shit about his incredibly gay socks.

ROFL

[Ashmoon]

I've actually been on the receiving end of a similar apology. An old high school friend showed up out of nowhere and apologized for having been mean. My reaction was, ok whatever. Though it was pretty hurtful when I was 14, by the time I was 30 it was not on my list of big hurts and worries. It didn't do me any further harm by bringing up forgotten past. Momentary discomfort at being reminded perhaps, but no true harm. Though I didn't actively think about this all the time, it was not completely buried either. We never truly forget these type of things, whether we come to terms with them or not. Anyway, I'm glad he had the chance to get it off his chest. It obviously was a bigger deal to him than it was to me. It was the right and adult thing to do to come back and apologize.

On the other hand, these days I deal with a BIG anger and resentment toward someone who harmed me and my family in a huge way. This anger affects me on a daily basis and bleeds into every aspect of my life. I know that it's up to me to figure out how to deal with this anger and the fact that the person doesn't give a fuck and never will. It is in his power to literally right the wrong and replace what was destroyed (which is not possible in the case of cruel words). What really bothers me about it though, is not the refusal to do this; it's the refusal to even acknowledge the damage done. An apology from this person would be Huge. An acknowledgment of the harm they caused would go a long way toward allowing me to forgive this person. Alas, in this case I will have to find another way to come to said forgiveness.

My point is, to bring up one aspect that I don't think has been touched on in this thread. By apologizing to this person, Tisket may be giving her an opportunity to forgive which is a GOOD thing.

Overall, apologizing when we know we've been wrong is what we are supposed to do. The only way I could see this as a selfish and harmful move is if the other person explicitly asked Tisket to leave her alone and never contact her again. I also agree that a letter is the most appropriate way to do it in this situation.

[Gan]

It obviously was a bigger deal to him than it was to me.
http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/icons/icon14.gif



On the other hand, these days I deal with a BIG anger and resentment toward someone who harmed me and my family in a huge way. This anger affects me on a daily basis and bleeds into every aspect of my life. I know that it's up to me to figure out how to deal with this anger and the fact that the person doesn't give a fuck and never will. It is in his power to literally right the wrong and replace what was destroyed (which is not possible in the case of cruel words). What really bothers me about it though, is not the refusal to do this; it's the refusal to even acknowledge the damage done. An apology from this person would be Huge. An acknowledgment of the harm they caused would go a long way toward allowing me to forgive this person. Alas, in this case I will have to find another way to come to said forgiveness.

I know a good civil/tort attorney I could refer you to.

I also know a few big guys with baseball bats I could refer you to.

I dont know any therapists to refer you to.

;)

[Skeeter]

This thread is so fucking emo I expect it to delete itself at any moment.

[Sean of the Thread]

I want alopecia on my balls. Shaving is annoyingly dangerous to the boys.

[DeV]

Righting wrongs is never a bad thing. Kranar's been spot on. A letter can be just as intimate and even more so in relaying what you may not be able to say over the phone or face to face.

It's the sentiment that matters. If she shrugs it off, then you both move on. No harm, no foul. I just think that when you are presented with an opportunity to do good, you shouldn't let that chance pass you by. Life is too damn short.

[Sean of the Thread]

Oh and more on topic I have proof positive of these douches ice picking all four tires of my car. They are on the "list" It's been 13 years and I'm still going to box cut four tires of at least the ring leaders car.

I'm joking of course I'd never do that for the record. (and court records)

[CrystalTears]

Eh, consider me one of those evidently heartless people that really doesn't give a rat's ass what some person in high school felt because of bullying and/or ridicule.

Seeing as how I was one of those mocked people, I would feel totally weirded out if one of these jokers decided to suddenly feel like baring their soul for being a typical douchebag teen.

I honestly don't see the point other than helping yourself feel good over long-term guilt. And frankly, if they didn't see the error of their ways then when they were being a dick, telling me ten years later isn't going to do anything but make me wonder why it took him so fucking long to figure out how stupid he was.

[Gan]

We should all send letters out to everyone we can remember wronging for, evar!

:banghead:

[DeV]

Eh, consider me one of those evidently heartless people that really doesn't give a rat's ass what some person in high school felt because of bullying and/or ridicule.

This is certainly understandable considering the fact that you were a target of bullies back in high school. You may have developed an immunity to it at some point. But, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the target of Tisket's bullying may very well feel the complete opposite of and by some miniscule chance she may appreciate the sentiment... or not.

Tisket really has nothing to lose here, especially if she feels this strongly about her former actions.

[Ashmoon]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/icons/icon14.gif



I know a good civil/tort attorney I could refer you to.

I also know a few big guys with baseball bats I could refer you to.

I dont know any therapists to refer you to.

;)

From what I understand, I pissed away the statute of limitations on this one waiting for this person to do the right thing on their own.

Since this person has taken to having his mother call me for him, the second referral may be appropriate. Can these guys all come dressed like your icon? Keep an eye on your PM.

Wait PC isn't group therapy?

[Gan]

ROFL

Good lunchtime laugh.

[AnticorRifling]

Wait PC isn't group therapy?

PC is chicken noodle soup for the soul, scalding hot and served by a waiter with some kind of palsy.

[Ambrosia]

I went through a really akward stage as a pre-teen and teenager. I was also the tallest person in my class from the time I was in 1st grade until 7th. I was picked on, and I did a lot of picking back.

I can't say it really impacted my life much at all though. I remember minor things about it but nothing stands out too much. If someone wrote me a letter though to say they are sorry, I'd be creeped out. I'd much prefer someone to call than to write a letter. It's a little weird someone having my home address. Anyway, that's just my half a cent....

[Miscast]

I remember in 6th grade there was this kid who talked funny, like a retard. He wasn't retarded though or in any special ed classes or anything. But a few of us made fun of him and called him "palsy" behind his back. Maybe to his face too. Pretty mean, I know.

Anyway the annual school spelling bee comes around and commenses in the school common area, and for some reason this kid's a contestant. My friends and I are in the audience. So his turn comes up and for some reason only God knows he gets asked to spell the word "palsy". He spells it P-O-L-Z-Y (out of spite, I imagine, since he knew we called him that). I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.

I guess it was wrong though, calling him palsy and all.

[Warriorbird]

I had an ex-girlfriend apologize like 10 years later for burning a book of my poetry in high school and claiming to know nothing about it.

Was pretty nice.

[Gan]

I had an ex-girlfriend apologize like 10 years later for burning a book of my poetry in high school and claiming to know nothing about it.

Was pretty nice.

Holy Shit that's pretty EMO.

:lol:

[Skeeter]

I can't get past "book of my poetry"

ROFL

[Asile]

So I skipped a few posts, but as someone who got teased a lot as a kid, from elementary school into high school, I personally wouldn't mind getting a written note from anyone who'd teased me saying that they've realized what they did was wrong and they're sorry for it. For some of them, yeah, I probably would say it was them being selfish and trying to get in good with someone or something.

I would NOT want them to call me or do it in person, 'cause that's too invasive. These people have no part in my present (which is pretty awesome, despite their best efforts otherwise), and that's where all that would put them. With the letter, at least, depending on the person...I can toss it out with the rest of yesterday's trash.

If you really feel the apology is the right thing to do, Tisket, then do it. If you're not sure, then this may not be the right time.

That's my perspective anyway.

[Skeeter]

I went through a really akward stage as a pre-teen and teenager. I was also the tallest person in my class from the time I was in 1st grade until 7th. I was picked on, and I did a lot of picking back.

I can't say it really impacted my life much at all though. I remember minor things about it but nothing stands out too much. If someone wrote me a letter though to say they are sorry, I'd be creeped out. I'd much prefer someone to call than to write a letter. It's a little weird someone having my home address. Anyway, that's just my half a cent....

I hope you have never had a listed address / number since it's so creepy to you that someone would have it. Probably shouldn't hand out business cards either.

[Khariz]

We can get into a semantics argument, but before we do so, the main point I'm making is that it is the correct thing to do for Tisket to write to the person who she made fun of as a child a letter stating that she understands what she did was wrong and that she wishes she had never done it.

Now, the impression I get is that you wish to argue whether this is a confession, or an apology. I argue it is an apology. In my opinion a confession is simply the admission of guilt. However, a very unethical person can admit to having done something terrible and continue to do it in the future. For an extreme example, someone can confess to affair by saying "Hahaha, I screwed your wife." The confession is just the statement of fact by an individual of having done something wrong.

An apology goes one step further, not only does the individual admit to guilt, but the individual is saying, and I repeat "that they won't do it again, don't support it, and that there's now one less person to have to worry about perpetuating something that is wrong."

That would be an apology. It's not the most important thing that the victim feels good about it, although certainly that helps. If it was just about making the victim feel better, then someone could be a really good actor, make an apology that makes the victim feel nice and warm, and then continue engaging in the wrongful act against someone else. But surely this would be considered an insincere apology.

This is a very interesting thread. I think this post by Kranar back on page 5 (default settings) was the most personally interesting to me.

By pure coincidence, as I did not read this thread until just now, last night I wrote a letter (e-mail) to someone I went to high school with to let them know that I knew that something I did to them 11 years ago was wrong.

Here's one small piece of what I said to them:


I do not apologize to you, however, because I have not earned your forgiveness. If you gave it to me, I do not believe it would be just of me to accept it. I have no value to exchange for your forgiveness, save the sincerity of my words on this page. As I said above, I don't expect that life will provide me with the chance to earn your forgiveness either. If I am wrong, and the opportunity presents itself, by whatever means, I will show you that my words are true.

There's no sense in me explaining exactly what I did to him. The point is, is that I feel futile in apologizing to him about it, especially because I am particularly aware that he still holds a grudge against me for doing it. My word is worth less than nothing to him because of a 11 year old betrayal. To "confess" to him that I knew what I did was wrong, and that I am no longer the person I was when I did that to him was all that I could bring myself to do.

I also didn't apologize to him because I no longer feel the pain of regret for what I did. It was 11 years ago. I was a stupid little teenager. While I don't use that as an excuse, it certainly puts things into perspective.

I also bothered to explain to him that I intentionally wrote him a letter instead of having a real-time, interactive conversation, for multiple reasons. I wanted to calmly collect my own thoughts, I did not want him to have to feel like he had to respond (or even read the damn thing), and I wanted to take the LEAST amount of his time as possible to explain myself. A long, drawn-out, live, confrontational discussion was not what I desired to have. I wanted only to say "Look, I wronged you in the past, I now realize what I did was wrong, and my apology would be futile. I am a different dude now, just letting you know. Peace out ex-homey."

That's what I did.

[Gan]

Let us know if you get a response... and what he said in return. ;)

[Khariz]

Let us know if you get a response... and what he said in return. ;)

I would only do that if I shared with you the entire contents of my letter. Most of which I don't even think half the people on this board would be capable of understanding (you are not one of those people though, Gan).

[Gan]

Actually, the details I wouldnt expect you to share. Just the tone of the response and or the fact that you were even responded too. I should have clarified that. Your business should stay your business.

[Khariz]

Actually, the details I wouldnt expect you to share. Just the tone of the response and or the fact that you were even responded too. I should have clarified that. Your business should stay your business.

Ahh yes, I suppose that would be appropriate.