Shield Bash vs. Shield Charge

[mweaver123]

Hi everyone,

I've been contemplating returning to GS and I wanted to create a warrior based around shield CMANS. Basically, I want to trample over things via bashing and/or charging them with a gigantic shield. I just had a couple of questions, though...

1. Is there a reason to use sbash over scharge once I have scharge (seems like, on the surface, that scharge would be superior)?

2. Is there a racial size factor when bashing/charging (i.e. are giantmen inherently more successful than say, a halfling)? Or does this move rely on shield training only? I'd like to create a dwarf, but don't want size penalties to hurt me if I want to smack something with my shield...

Thanks in advance for the help! :)

[Latrinsorm]

Shield bash is a more conservative maneuver. Takes less time and has less epic fails, but also will not cause as many good things (death crits, massive knockdowns, etc.). They both have their uses, but neither will work as your only means of hunting.

[Lucas]

I've wondered if you add two shields one in the right and one in the left would you have double protection? Talk about turtling.

[Lucas]

And yes there is a bonus for Giantman relative to dwarves for shield bash/charge

[mweaver123]

Hello again,

Thanks again for the information...would there be any other 'defensive' CMANs I should consider picking up along the way (block/parry mastery come to mind)?

I realize I'd need some type of offense and can't completely rely on being a 'turtle', though... :)

[Drunken Durfin]

Shields are for chickens.

[Lucas]

In the long term a warrior based off a shield will make the most powerful warrior. If you're smart about it.

[Celephais]

If you're smart about it.
Facilities you lack.

Shields in your right hand do not provide any benefit, infact I think they provide a detriment to your DS.

[mweaver123]

And yes there is a bonus for Giantman relative to dwarves for shield bash/charge

Is there a way you can quantify this? That is, is this bonus that significant or maybe just 'icing on the cake'? I'm sort of in a toss up at the moment between the two races and wonder how much this would affect me if I went the dwarf route...

[Lucas]

I really can't quantify it but yes it's marginally significant.

And yes shields are better. And no a 3x shield 2x dodge will have much much higher DS then just 2x dodge, or even 3x dodge for that matter. Not counting any shield skill just equipping a shield gives you a +20 to DS plus the EBP factor. Throw in a 10x shield and it becomes +70 and throw in a tower and your EBP and DS goes up accordingly. 3x dodge will be slightly lower in DS when comparing it to a 3x shield 2x dodge 10x tower shielder. The EBP will be massively higher. There was a huge thread about this with all the calculations carried out search for it.

[Latrinsorm]

If you 3x in shield you'll do fine with shield maneuvers, regardless of race.

Block mastery is pretty spiffy. If you like fireworks it's obviously not the way to go, but as I said it is pretty spiffy from a mechanical standpoint.

[dszabo]

I wish I had enough time to sit and write posts to myself, and converse with myself over forums. Lysander has spread!

[Back]

I went bash over charge because I did not like the idea that charge could fail. So far, it was a good choice. Bash can crit kill and even epic fails do not land you on your ass.

[Lucas]

Bash is better, charge theres just too much room for failure and in a swarm this will kill you.

[IorakeWarhammer]

bump.

thinking of training in this as a giant. read everything here but still have some questions..

1. does the actual shield skill help? or just cman ranks?

2. definitely a bonus for being a giant?

the plan is: cman sbash critter, 616 critter. wondering if this is gonna work ok (for example, i'm level 54, if i go hunt level 59 boars, will i be able to sbash them with full ranks? will it be effective with a spiked shield? just wanna knock em down and then 616 them to save mana)

[JHarris]

In the long term a warrior based off a shield will make the most powerful warrior. If you're smart about it.

Sorry to bump this from a while back, but I'm curious as to the justification here. Certainly a 3x shield build is going to have a higher DS and EBP, but I don't see why you should care 'in the long term.' A THW or pole warrior can develop a pretty large DS just through Dodge alone, and then their armor/redux easily covers the rest of damage.

It'd be nice to have another 100 DS, no matter who you are. But is it worth it at the expense of killing power? With a one-handed weapon, you are going to be standing in front of creatures longer, definitely swinging more than you would with a big two-hander. Slowing down your killing time inherently puts you at more danger due to things walking in to maneuver or cast at you while you try to chip away at what you are working on. Crit kills just come more frequently with a claid or a maul.

I suppose there are a few more helpful cmans if you go board/sword or blunt. I don't really see a need for more than the standard feint/tackle/warcries, though.

Anyway, I'm curious to the reasoning here. I'm not sure that I think either one is more powerful than the other.

[mweaver123]

LOL...it's funny to see a thread I created two years ago resurrected like this...

[Jace Solo]

With Feint you're likely to lock things in RT. You can also feint with open hands, provided the training...for a tackle feint lock. Add ambush ranks for open legging and what would probably take you two swings with a maul still takes two with a one hander. You might get that 1-shot with the two hander more often but it's still reliable.

The only thing you'll really be lacking is TD which a shield "could" help you make up for and so would sunfist.

[JHarris]

With Feint you're likely to lock things in RT. You can also feint with open hands, provided the training...for a tackle feint lock. Add ambush ranks for open legging and what would probably take you two swings with a maul still takes two with a one hander. You might get that 1-shot with the two hander more often but it's still reliable.

The only thing you'll really be lacking is TD which a shield "could" help you make up for and so would sunfist.

You can't really feint lock anymore, since you can't stack feints. Tackle has so much RT time associated with it, that by the time you feint and tackle something, 4 out of 5 times, another creature has walked in the room.

Also, as long as you are not a short race, you don't have to leg to head things with a two-handed weapon.

I'm just not convinced that a board/one-handed weapon warrior is the most powerful.