just a curiousity..

[firegirl]

A couple friends of mine and I have been debating issues regarding Universal health Care (They just watched Sicko so it sparked the conversation).

We all know movies/Documentaries/etc can be over dramatized and one-sided so I am really curious as to why people are against/for Universal health Care?

[Clove]

A couple friends of mine and I have been debating issues regarding Universal health Care (They just watched Sicko so it sparked the conversation).

We all know movies/Documentaries/etc can be over dramatized and one-sided so I am really curious as to why people are against/for Universal health Care?Because I don't want to pay for your sickly ass.

[Arkans]

Cheap ass people, honestly.

That and socialist healthcare is horribly inefficient.

Regardless, I agree, as one of the richest nations on Earth, I see absolutely no reason why social healthcare isn't available.

Of course, there should be options for better, private healthcare. Hell, that's what we have in Massachusetts and somehow society hasn't fallen apart.

- Arkans

[AnticorRifling]

A couple friends of mine and I have been debating issues regarding Universal health Care (They just watched Sicko so it sparked the conversation).

We all know movies/Documentaries/etc can be over dramatized and one-sided so I am really curious as to why people are against/for Universal health Care?


If you can get everyone to pay into it sure. But it would still end up being those of us that work hard get screwed hard and that's bullshit.

[Stanley Burrell]

I'm guessing the most common fear/phobia/etcetera that people have, and subsequently are in Emislity beef mode with, is in thinking that a universal healthcare system is somehow = wellfare for crackheads. Like, I've known some very intelligent people who have no idea that there's a difference between financing R&D + cancer screenings for, say, 3 or 4 different cancer types, with one or two paid-for screenings during the average human life expectancy, versus free money for the father of bastard children.

Then, at an actual functioning level as to why not; people like ... physicians, FDA bureaucrats and private health firm advocates would be vehemently against it. And are so deep in the pockets of every possible offshoot, that Nancy Pelosi is forced into being an undoubtedly patriotic savior of humanity by being a self-touted liberal -- There is seriously no spectrum for universal healthcare to be placed at opposite ends of in implementation. The idea is deluded.

[Gan]

That and socialist healthcare is horribly inefficient.


If you can get everyone to pay into it sure. But it would still end up being those of us that work hard get screwed hard and that's bullshit.

^^^

Socialized medicine comes with its own inherent problems. It works great for small economies of scale with the resources to support it. It would be a disasterous for a country as large and populous as the US.

I'd like to see an oil rich nation like Venezuela offer up socialized medicine for its residents and pay for it 100% with the oil revenues it gets. Then I'd like to see honest data reporting to see how it fares and the short term/long term impacts it has on its society.

Of course I'd also like to see the the educational infrastructure of Venezuela also flourish under the same oil revenues.

I dont think I'll see it in my lifetime though.

[Clove]

I'm guessing the most common fear/phobia/etcetera that people have, and subsequently are in Emislity beef mode with, is in thinking that a universal healthcare system is somehow = wellfare for crackheads. Like, me...

[Arkans]

It's why I believe it should be offered and done on the state level.

I agree that the larger the socialist program the more unweildly and wasteful it becomes.

If you've ever lived in a communist / socialist country, you'll really know what I'm talking about.

Then again, all you need to do, is pick up a book.

- Arkans

PS: I saw Sicko, and while it made some good points, some parts where way over the top / not really accurate. For example, the entire Cuba bit.

[Stanley Burrell]

..

I'm in ur white womenz, creating welfare checks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Clove]

The problem with health insurance as it exists in the US today is that in many regions a monoply exists. Certain insurance providers already control over 25% of the business in their "sphere of influence" which essentially allows them to dictate what will be covered and for how much.

That's why if we're going to have socialized health-care, I prefer a public utility model. Where a private company(s) are chartered monopolies with government regulation of the service they provide and the profits they can make.

[Stanley Burrell]

I think the real problem with health insurance is that it creates too many holier-than-thou pseudo-intelligent as-if-I-mattered e-peen stroking contests on Internet bulletin boards.

Don't get me started on one-liners and hypocrisy.

[Stanley Burrell]

Eight, I count eight hyphens!

[Clove]

Another suggestion (which comes from my step-mother) is providing more incentives for businesses to directly fund their worker's own healthcare. In her company they don't use a health insurance provider at all- they insure themselves with a fund that each employee contributes to. They retain an insurance provider to handle the administration (i.e. making payments to doctors) and they took out a loss insurance in the event that a whole bunch of employees have heart surgery at once and they go too far in the red. She said even with the (considerable) expense of the loss insurance it has ended up being cheaper than buying health insurance. She complains because there aren't enough government incentives for businesses to do this.

[firegirl]

PS: I saw Sicko, and while it made some good points, some parts where way over the top / not really accurate. For example, the entire Cuba bit.

Heh, I figured as much. that part was really what sparked the talk.

How much does one pay for standard insurance? Are the Doctors available to you appointed through the insurance company?

[CrystalTears]

How much does one pay for standard insurance? Are the Doctors available to you appointed through the insurance company?
What kind of debate were you having that you're asking this now? I take it you don't pay for insurance?

[Daniel]

I'm in ur white womenz, creating welfare checks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

:rofl:

someone please make this into a picture.

[Clove]

Heh, I figured as much. that part was really what sparked the talk.

How much does one pay for standard insurance? Are the Doctors available to you appointed through the insurance company?On Cuba: Are you comfortable having your the nature of your healthcare dictated to you? For example if you're HIV positive, treatment is available ONLY if you agree to live in a colony (of other HIV positive individuals).

[Gan]

I'm in ur white womenz, creating welfare checks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Quote of the day.


:rofl:

someone please make this into a picture.
x2

[Arkans]

Heh, I figured as much. that part was really what sparked the talk.

How much does one pay for standard insurance? Are the Doctors available to you appointed through the insurance company?


I'm lucky, I get mine for free 99.

That will change next year and I believe I pay $40 per check for an HMO. Not entirely that.

Of course, this comes from a large company that isn't retail. It's your average middle class job.

Now, unfortunately, if you work crap jobs and are not in Massachusetts it can run into the hundreds of dollars per month ($400-$600), I believe.

It all depends on the network that your insurance is in as far as doctors are concerned. There are so many variables that it is really hard to give solid numbers that are accurate across the board.

- Arkans

[AnticorRifling]

:rofl:

someone please make this into a picture.

Working on it right now.

[AnticorRifling]

Somone link me the pictures of Stanley that are on the boards so I can use them in this photoshop when I get back from lunch.