High Gas Prices: The Market Responds

[Gan]

...registrations of new hybrid vehicles rose 38 percent in 2007 to a record 350,289, according to data to be released Monday by R.L. Polk & Co., a Southfield-based automotive marketing and research company.
Hybrids made up just 2.2 percent of the U.S. market share for the year, but they were growing steadily even as overall sales declined 3 percent.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/04/21/hybrids.prius.ap/index.html

Pretty powerful numbers if you ask me.

Perhaps this (recession/petrol inflation) is just the medicine (who says medicine ever tastes good?) that we need to seriously spur the development of substitute goods for petrolium dependant transportation. Go go go free market development!

And no, I do not think that corn based ethanol is the answer either.

[Parkbandit]

And no, I do not think that corn based ethanol is the answer either.

It is if you love higher grocery prices.

[Celephais]

I really think the government needs to just tax the shit out of gas, spur even more response... people will pay what something is worth, if it's not worth it they won't buy it, obviously gas has an intrinsic worth well above $4 a gallon, I'd rather that money go to the government than to saudis. Not that I'd expect them to effeciently spend it on solutions (alternative energy/public transportation) but it's still better than going out of the country.

My 2 cents... before this thread goes to shit :(

[g++]

Grocery prices will go up regardless, the shit doesnt float to the grocery store.

[AnticorRifling]

It's true that the produce doesn't "float" to the grocery store but I think that's a smaller impact to cost when compared to the demand for corn as fuel.

Keep in mind this is me speculating without numbers/data in front of me. Your demand for corn as a food stuff for both human and animal has been fairly constant. Now there is a big push (not a "new" push per say just a big push in recent years) to use that food stuff for a fuel. Demand is way higher than the supply, there is only so much usable farm land, thank you suburb bitches, and it has to be rotated so you're not growing corn every harvest. Farmers are damn good about pulling as much yield per acre but they can't keep up with this additional demand.

Now if they try to skip a crop rotation and plant corn, corn, corn, instead of corn, bean, corn then they have to introduce more fert into the soil which is an added cost. Not to mention the rise in their fuel costs for field work and transportation of crop.

[g++]

It's true that the produce doesn't "float" to the grocery store but I think that's a smaller impact to cost when compared to the demand for corn as fuel.

Keep in mind this is me speculating without numbers/data in front of me. Your demand for corn as a food stuff for both human and animal has been fairly constant. Now there is a big push (not a "new" push per say just a big push in recent years) to use that food stuff for a fuel. Demand is way higher than the supply, there is only so much usable farm land, thank you suburb bitches, and it has to be rotated so you're not growing corn every harvest. Farmers are damn good about pulling as much yield per acre but they can't keep up with this additional demand.

Now if they try to skip a crop rotation and plant corn, corn, corn, instead of corn, bean, corn then they have to introduce more fert into the soil which is an added cost. Not to mention the rise in their fuel costs for field work and transportation of crop.

Oh ya most definately, just saying were scewed either way and kind of bitching not questioning your statement.

[Gan]

Not to mention that most fertilizer is petrolium based.

[AnticorRifling]

Not to mention that most fertilizer is petrolium based.

Yar, which is why it blows up so good :)

[Gan]

Timothy McVeigh concurs.

[Trouble]

Where do you come up with the idea that most fertilizer is petroleum based? Most is recycled organic matter and inorganic salts. The only petroleum used in that is the energy to make it and transport it. Are you thinking pesticides?

McVeigh used ammonium nitrate right? That's not made with petroleum (except for the energy to power the plants). he did combine it with Gasoline though.

[Gan]

Correct that McVeigh used ANNM + Diesel. ANNM is not petrolium based per se ergo my reference to McVeigh was almost incorrect.

ANNM is produced using the Haber-Bosch process which uses natural gas or sometimes methane to derive hydrogen using heterogeneous catalysis. So in part, the product is not made from but derived from a process involving petrolium based products/resources. Yet that is still contrary to my meaning and or intent in the above referenced quote.

That aside, I was linking fertilizer with the more commonly known fact that insecticides are petrolium based.

[AnticorRifling]

I was actually thinking fossil fuels (read natural gas)more than petro in regards to nitrogen fert. Since oil goes up demand for natural gas generally increases, causing an increase in price.

It's all related, quit making me think back to my days on the farm.

[Ignot]

Im glad cars don't run on milk.

[Durgrimst]

I am too lazy to read everyone responses, but I heard of a report by the UN published a report that corn ethanol usage in the industrialized nations is increasing world wide hunger.

*I am half drunk, so I probably spelled half of those big words wrong.

[Tsa`ah]

And no, I do not think that corn based ethanol is the answer either.

This is the result of a poor infrastructure for biofuels and the free market.

There's no incentive for farmers to plant things like switch grass. In a free market what would you do as a farmer.

A. Plant switch grass and cut your profit in half.
B. Plant wheat to drive down a staple cost.
C. Plant corn and maximize your per acre profit.


It is if you love higher grocery prices.

Again, the result of the free market. Food cost is going to go up no matter what ... and that's a direct result of fuel costs.

Grains are a very poor choice for ethanol. Harvesting waste mash from breweries and distilleries before being used for feed is a great way to to cut into the use of grains for fuel. Another is wood waste and the charcoal industry.


Where do you come up with the idea that most fertilizer is petroleum based? Most is recycled organic matter and inorganic salts. The only petroleum used in that is the energy to make it and transport it. Are you thinking pesticides?

Nitrates account for 29% of the total energy cost in agriculture according to the USDA .... which is a petroleum cost.


McVeigh used ammonium nitrate right? That's not made with petroleum (except for the energy to power the plants). he did combine it with Gasoline though.

Incorrect. Petroleum coke is used (hence petroleum based). It takes 11 tons of petroleum coke to turn out 10 tons of ammonia which is then converted to urea ammonium nitrate ... all the while using fossil fuels to power through the process.

Find me a farm that uses purely organics and I'll show you a farm on the verge of bankruptcy .... or a farm with very low yields per acre ... or a farm with very high operational costs.

[Apathy]

Unfortunately, the market is responding by being retarded.

Buying a Prius costs as much as buying a Corolla and driving it for about 7 years (give or take some time due to maintenance and higher fuel costs nowadays, maybe more like 6). http://writer111.googlepages.com/priusversuscorolla

and lol @ hybrid SUV's and the schmucks that buy them.

[Clove]

I really think the government needs to just tax the shit out of gas...(Don't you already live in Connecticut?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

A. Plant switch grass and cut your profit in half.
B. Plant wheat to drive down a staple cost.
C. Plant corn and maximize your per acre profit.


I would do D. Not raise pigs and get government subsidies!

[Clove]

I would do D. Not raise pigs and get government subsidies!Don't you not-raise pigs now? Haven't you applied for your subsidy?

[Stanley Burrell]

I think when I tip off, it's like literally a dollar now.

So ... Maybe I'll start paying with cash upfront and saving myself a buck each time. Although if those guys see me working the hose... I dunno? Are there any ramifications for actually squeezing out the gas pump on non-credit card moneys?

If so, how do I do this as non-chalantly as possible? Thanks.

[AnticorRifling]

I think when I tip off, it's like literally a dollar now.

So ... Maybe I'll start paying with cash upfront and saving myself a buck each time. Although if those guys see me working the hose... I dunno? Are there any ramifications for actually squeezing out the gas pump on non-credit card moneys?

If so, how do I do this as non-chalantly as possible? Thanks.

I have no idea what the hell you just said.

[Gan]

Tipping off pumps for the gas thats left between the pump/valve and the nozzle (run-off). I know people who would walk around all the pumps at a station with a little gas can collecting the tipp-off.

When you pay with a credit card, you usually stop the pump with the nozzle, thus leaving leftover gas (most of which is drawn back into the tank, leaving a fraction of gas between the actual nozzle and the point where the hose connects up at the top of the pump/pay unit.

When you pay cash, you've paid to a specific amount so the pump shuts off while your nozzle is still open - thus you get almost all residual between the pump and the nozzle.

Its scary that I can understand Stan.

:help:

[Stanley Burrell]

Does it make you get your ass whooped?

[Gan]

No, but I'm relating it to the same reaction as I get when I tell people I can understand Pink Floyd without being on acid.

[AnticorRifling]

No, but I'm relating it to the same reaction as I get when I tell people I can understand Pink Floyd without being on acid.

Here's where I translate. He's not asking if understanding SB gets your ass whooped, he's asking if doing that tip off thing results in an ass whooping by someone.

[Stanley Burrell]

lol

[Clove]

Here's where I translate. He's not asking if understanding SB gets your ass whooped, he's asking if doing that tip off thing results in an ass whooping by someone.Thanks AR... we've needed a translator for a while now.

[Gan]

When gas was cheap, I never saw a station attendant chase anyone away.

Now that gas is almost 4$ a gallon - I can imagine it would garner unwanted attention from the station owners/attendants.

[AnticorRifling]

I just realized that SB's signature is from the ATHF movie, freaking awesome.

[Stanley Burrell]

I just realized that SB's signature is from the ATHF movie, freaking awesome.

w00t.

I'll prolly fill up at nighttime, from now on.