Retraining 80th Sorc

[Drunken Durfin]

I have been using this guy solely for scroll infusion, but I am toying with the idea of dusting off his armor and runestaff and getting back out hunting. His stats are of the shitty GS3 kind, but there is not much I can do about that. I do have a Fixskill available now, and with the annual one coming up in a few weeks I thought this would be a good time to start fiddling with his training.

I want to go the maxed out CS route with him and will most likely rely on Pain and Disintegrate for his attack spells, with a little Dark Catalyst to mix things up now and again. He is currently using a runestaff, but I am thinking about switching over to shield as he will be heading to Nelemar temple in a few trains anyway.

Comments, suggestions and pointers are much appreciated.

Current Training:


Skill Name | Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 180 80
Magic Item Use.....................| 180 80
Spell Aiming.......................| 180 80
Harness Power......................| 180 80
Elemental Mana Control.............| 180 80
Spirit Mana Control................| 180 80
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 50 10
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 180 80
Survival...........................| 105 25
Perception.........................| 179 79
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 177 77

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 50

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 50

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 111

What I am thinking about changing to:

Skill Name | Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Shield Use.........................| Add to max for level @ 82
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 180 80
Magic Item Use.....................| 180 80
Spell Aiming.......................| Reduce to 40 Ranks
Harness Power......................| 180 80
Elemental Mana Control.............| 180 80
Spirit Mana Control................| 180 80
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| Increase to 20 Ranks (slight increase in CoS firing)
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| Decrease to 75 Ranks
Survival...........................| Reduce to 0 Ranks
Perception.........................| Reduce to 40 Ranks
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| Increase to 75 Ranks (Nelemar w/Low STR)
First Aid..........................| Reduce to 0 Ranks

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| Increase to 53 Ranks

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| Increase to 53 Ranks

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| Reduce to 100 Ranks


The changes to the spell lists are based on my understanding of what the CS formula is for max return on investment. I could be wholly wrong here so let me know if I am.

Even with my proposed changes I still have something like 166 PTP's left over. I'm not really interested in animates or planar shift, just causing pain and death...and making it back alive.

Thanks.

[AestheticDeath]

Looks OK, but why .5x SA? I would 2x, 1x or drop it altogther.

And I wouldn't totally get rid of perception, there are places you HAVE to have it to travel.

Also you are using a ton of TPs on the lores, why do you want them so high?

[iJin]

Shield and Brawling ftw.

Also, I'd just keep putting the extra points into mana and spell aiming. I assume limb disruption would be quite useful, also focused implosions never hurts anyone..unless that's what you're using it for.

[Drunken Durfin]

>And I wouldn't totally get rid of perception, there are places you HAVE to have it to travel.

Good point, totally forgot about that.

>Also you are using a ton of TPs on the lores, why do you want them so high?

My wizard has quite a bit of fun with 100 fire lores, figured 100 Necro lores on a Sorc would be equally fun. That is really all I was basing the level of lores on.


As for the spell aiming, I do really need it other than for focused implosion and targeting limbs?

[iJin]

I would think just those 2 and 111.

Not exactly sure though.

[Drunken Durfin]

I might just drop it all together then, as I am not a big fan of implosion and don't use the others that much at all either.

[bluefish]

Your aimed 708 CS drops off significantly without maximum training in SA -- I leveled and haven't yet trained up the extra 2 ranks, and my 708 CS is about 13 lower than my normal CS...that's with just 2 ranks missing :\ With 1x focused 708 would probably almost useless on a like-level target, and 111 would be far from its maximum potential. FI probably wouldn't be too hot either. That's why I'd say 2x SA or don't train it at all. It's gonna be a tough decision for me as well come fixskills but I think I'll keep it since I frequently use focused 708 and 720.

As far as CS return, I was crunching numbers the other day and I found that overtraining Sorc by 20 is top priority before anything else. After that, training MnE provides slightly more CS per rank. (.583 vs .5). So, your spells look good.

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah I dropped spell aiming all together, and just used CS spells to kill things. I think right now he is just using 710 and 718. Both work very well without SA. Although I think the things I use 710 on right now are a bit below me, and the things I use 718 on are a bit above me.

718 has got to be one of the best spells ever, as long as you have the time to wait it out if they don't die quickly. Its just about a 99% guaranteed kill with one cast as long as you ward them.

And I never use 708, so I don't miss the SA there.

[Fallen]

If you're going Nelemar I would highly recommend getting your CS up a bit higher . Sentries are tough to word for me at cap, and I am slightly over 2x in Spell Research. 703 is a great spell against them.

Err..I need to edit my post as I missed what you were SUGGESTING you were going to do.

I would drop down to 40 ranks of Minor Spiritual and put the extra ranks into Minor Elemental. You will have a Higher CS due to 425, and still get nearly as much of a defensive benefit via 430. Your spells of 425 and 430 will last a bit longer too. They are a pain as they don't stack. The benefits from 425 to the Sorcerer circle CS stops at 74 ranks, So I wouldn't train any higher than that.

A good split to aim for at level 80 would be something like 100 Sorcerer, 40 Minor Spiritual, 74 Elemental. Back it down from there on the Elemental to scale it to the amount of overtraining you want to do.

Here is the Casting Strength Formula:

CS = (Level × 3) + Primary Circle bonus + Secondary Circle A bonus + Secondary Circle B + Stat bonusThe Primary Circle is the circle of the spell which is being cast (round normally).

Ranks up to level = 1
Ranks 1-20 above level = 0.75
Ranks 21-60 above level = 0.5
Ranks 61-100 above level = 0.25
Ranks 101-? above level = 0.125Secondary circles are the other circles the character knows (round up). If your profession may only learn two circles, only count the one additional circle.

Ranks up to 2/3 level = 0.33333
Ranks above 2/3 level = 0.1Stat bonus is the value appearing after the stat when the INFO (http://www.krakiipedia.org/w/index.php?title=INFO_verb&action=edit) command is entered.

Aura (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Aura) for Elemental spell circles
Wisdom (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom) for Spiritual spell circles
The average of Aura (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Aura) and Wisdom (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom) for Sorcerer Base spell circle (round up)----
As to the matter of Spell Aim:

708 for a sorcerer is an amazing, amazing tool in non-troll War Camps. Also, you will miss that bolt AS during Invasions and war camps. You are also going to miss Focused Implode against both the Sentries and the Greater Water Elementals. Yes, you can always run, but you will also have to turn down those bounties on those tasks until you can ward either reliably, which wont come for a bit. Also, nothing breaks the motonony like being able to throw Fire Spirit and Web Bolt around. Bluefish said it best, train 2x or don't bother.

To answer your question on Spell Aim and other spells, Focused Maelstrom is also affected by the skill, but that spell is horrid at later levels due to how long it takes to come into affect.

----
On Sorcerer Lores


Lores for sorcerers are useful for more tertiary skills which you said you're not interested in. Animate Dead, Minor Summoning, etc. While Necro lore does help Pain, if your CS is good it wont make that much of a difference at all. You will find Dark Catalyst to be your spell of choice for anything semi-magical, or magical. It one shots things with reliable accuracy. Unfortunately, it is influenced by ELEMENTAL lores, and not all that strongly.
Phase and Demonology is an incredibly useful combination. Locked containers (Both treasure chests and rogue installed locking containers) become weightless with phase, but only up to a certain poundage, which is reliant on Demonology Ranks.

I would suggest the following split (at cap). 52 Demonology, 49 Necromancy. You will want 42 Demon, 39 Necro at level 80 (To keep you at 1x) This will give you a good chance AGAINST your own cloak attacking you when stunned (that caps at 50), Allows you to phase 25 pounds worth of junk at a time, being able to summon from any valence outside of a chamber with nearly 100% (Useful on teras as you can buy permits for your demons), drop your X-realm travel chance of failure to 7%, and allow 2 other people to hop in your Intra-realm portals.

On the Necro side of the house, it will allow you to still animate around 6 levels beneath you, but honestly, on Teras you either go hard or you go home with Necro once you hit Nelemar. Your Pain Infliction will be a small bit weaker, but your CS will make up for that. Again, you're training in Necro for pain and pain alone. Even still, it is hard to go that high in Necro lore.

Honestly, IMO, Sorcerer lores are barely worth it. They are ALMOST crappy enough to go completely without them and use all those points somewhere else. As it stands now, I would definitely recommend not going past 1x in them. I think you will like Phase though. Part of being a good hunter is being light, and Phase helps with that a ton.

Hope this helps a bit. Any other specific questions?

[Crazy Bard]

Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| Increase to 20 Ranks (slight increase in CoS firing)
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| Decrease to 75 Ranks
I had 50 ranks in demon lore, and barely any in necro. Having that much lore in necro is just foolish in my opinion.

[Fallen]

I had 50 ranks in demon lore, and barely any in necro. Having that much lore in necro is just foolish in my opinion.

I wish I could argue, but yeah, Necro is really worthless unless you make it a point to work Animate Dead into your hunts. It is a pain in the ass to do. God bless the Soulstone wands. I will say this, though. Tritons are arguably the best animates in the game, and you need a shit ton of lore to animate them. Ithzir Scouts/Jans come in close second, however you dont need as much to get a Scout up and running.

[Fallen]

I don't see a weapon type in there for your suggested training. To really see a big benefit in DS from switching away from a well built sissy stick build to a shield build I would suggest 1xing Brawl or a sword/blunt.

[Drunken Durfin]

Lots of good info, thanks folks.

[AestheticDeath]

They actually changed 425, so it gets the bonus on the odd number and maxs at 75 ranks now.

[Fallen]

They actually changed 425, so it gets the bonus on the odd number and maxs at 75 ranks now.

I know. That is why I said how it applies to the sorcerer circle. There is no difference in my sorcerer CS between the 74th rank and the 75th rank. For Elemental CS? Sure, get that 75th rank, but that doesn't apply to sorcerers.

[AestheticDeath]

Hmm, haven't tested it myself. Seems they fixed it wrong?

[Fallen]

I don't think so. I think they just fixed how it awards CS to Elemental aligned circles, but it doesn't give enough of a bonus to make a difference for the hybrid ones. Something like that.

[Abyran'sa]

If your serious about max CS above all else, I agree with the others that you should ditch the runestaff and either 2x in spell aiming or don't touch it.

Also, to maximize Sorcerer CS, go 21 ranks over your level as that 21st rank (first rank that gives you .5) should be worth 1 additional Sorcerer CS.

Sereg’s puppeteer

[Fallen]

Ah, good call.

[crb]

I gotta disagree with my comrads about the lores. Demonology lore sucks.

I've only got 7 ranks now, and had 0 for a very long time. 725 sucks and has almost no hunting utility, which seems to be your goals. the full failure chance on 740 is 10%, so getting it to 7% with 50 ranks isn't very cost efficient.

712 backfires are rare, and what is also rare? Needing 712. You have to be stunned, and then hit in a traditional way. I try to get my defenses high enough so as to not get hit. Since GS4 launched, at which point I was capped and so for the entirety I have hunted ithzir & griffins, I can count the number of times 712 worked for me, and I needed it to work, on my fingers.

Phase is useful, but you get base phase with 10 pounds, 3 ranks gives you 12, 7 gives you 14, soon I'll be going up to 12 ranks for 16 pounds, and I'll stop at 25 ranks for 20 pounds. I may not be able to phase big boxes, but what I phase are three lockable component containers I carry, and those are less than 20 pounds. 20 pounds is also enough to phase some boxes, and other big loot you pick up (crystal weapons in OTF, drake weapons everywhere).

Then there is 718... big deal.

With necromancy lore you get animate dead, which is a pain I know, but I used it every hunt more or less even before I got my wand. You get something that attacks your enemies without you needing to be stunned. It can also pick up and carry things for you if you want.

You get a much better 711, and 701, and likely soon another spell like 716.

I think, at cap, the ideal balanced arrangement would be 25/75 demon/necro.

I also just wouldn't recommend going sword/board. You say you use him primarily for infusion, you'd be a much better infuser if you could focus on more magical ranks. You'd also probably be able to get a better CS.

Finally, remember, you get twice the DS from the 100 circle as the 400 circle. Training the 100 circle from 50, where many stop, to 100, is the equivalent of buying a 10x db item. That is a big chunk of DS. Maybe it isn't possible precap to do that, but post cap I think most sorcerers should make it a goal to get more 100 circle. It also of course helps your web CS (for area web), and apparently now your 130 sickness. But mostly, that DS is pretty nice.

[crb]

oh yes, and then as others have said, if you really want to be a good hunter, you should maximize all your weapons, not just your CS, because sometimes a big CS is not the best tool for the job.

So I would 2x in SA, and I would get some spirit summoning lore. However, if you're only going to .5x in SA, it'd be next to useless anyways and as others have said I'd just go with 0.

Consequently I also have 76 ranks in the 400 circle. 75 ranks got me 1 more AS, 76 ranks got me 1 DS and 1 TD. If I didn't use AS spells I would have stopped at 74, and then since 76 was just one more I did it as well for the defensive benefit.

[Fallen]

Bottom line, encumbrance kills. You can either choose to not pick up boxes as most are over 20 pounds, or you can phase them away. Hell, my bags that I use as locked containers are JUST under the weight limit with 63 ranks.

Two different schools of thought, and it is always good to get dissenting opinions. I still say though that unless you really want to make your Animate Dead worthwhile, it almost seems better for pure power to drop all lores and get extra spell ranks.

Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned, but MOC is awesome for sorcerers who bolt, but even without bolting it helps to stun additional targets via Focused Implosion. I went with 5 enhancive ranks. Anywhere from 5 ranks to 10 ranks is a good stopping point. I highly suggest getting said ranks via an enhancive (premium or Advg badge) as MOC for pures is stupidly expensive.

[crb]

Bottom line, encumbrance kills. You can either choose to not pick up boxes as most are over 20 pounds, or you can phase them away. Hell, my bags that I use as locked containers are JUST under the weight limit with 63 ranks.


Disks.

And.... dwarven strength rocks, that is all.

I will concede the point that frail elves probably need to worry about encumberance more.