Improving Shield/armor Use

[Rathgar]

So I was reading through the officials trying to think up of an idea to improve our profession. Coase has promised us some new fangled awesomness to our profession soon. So, how about instead of all the fancy ideas lets try to improve on some core warrior skills, namely shield and armor use.

Idea 1:

I was thinking warriors should get special tactically advantageous abilities that can be called upon during specific situations. So these warrior only commands can be used perhaps a few times during combat given a certain amount of stamina points.

Shield Use Special Move-

Turtle Mode : Similar to those turtle armors that removes you to the inside of your armor, a warrior using two shields can effectively be invulnerable to most attacks. This would include bonuses against spells, warding bonuses, and near 99% to block. Of course he couldn't attack under these circumstances and the effects will last for only a minute or so.

Armor Use Special Move-

Counter Deflection - With this ability the warrior is able to purposefully take the full blast of a hit against weapon/spell in order to make a devestating counter attack with his weapon. The idea is the warrior will manuever just in time and place to deflect an incoming attack with his armor to throw the attacker off balance. Afterwards a crushing critical hit can be garnered by exploiting the attacker's off balance.


Would like Warrior suggestions here only please. I hope to transfer over any ideas here to the officials too. Lets get this ball rolling!

[Stanley Burrell]

<<Counter Deflection - With this ability the warrior is able to purposefully take the full blast of hit against weapon/spell in order to make a devestating counter attack with his weapon. The idea is the warrior will manuever just in time and place to deflect an incoming attack with his armor to throw the attack off balance. Afterwards a crushing critical hit can be garnered by exploiting the attacker's off balance.>>

LoL. This reminds me hardcore of Ninja Gaiden and timing power attacks when aborbing foe's Chi/Qi.

That is all.

Oh, and tackle needs to be downed in RT + paired with an attack.

[Baelog]

How about shields actually granting a Warding bonus? Armor does, thus signifying that a heavy piece of metal placed in between yourself and said Warding spell gives you a better chance to ward it, then shouldn't shields?

How about an ability to use your shield as a sunlight reflector to reduce the DS and EBP of enemies?

How about being better trained in Armor gives a CML bonus for some Combat Manuevers? A dodge bonus? A DS bonus? More Redux?

How about the ability to specify where you want to take the hits more, like you can't completely dodge, but you can choose to take the hit on the arm, like sacrificing it to save your head from getting smashed in?

How about actually being able to save your hunting partners ass by upgrading Guard and Protect to depend more on your Shield and Armor use, and able to get it up to 99% intercept rate? I mean, honestly...If you stepped inbetween your injured friend and a creature that was trying to kill him, you would have a very good chance at stopping the creature

Honestly, so much improvement needs to be done to Warriors

[Bobmuhthol]

<<How about being better trained in Armor gives a CML bonus for some Combat Manuevers? A dodge bonus? A DS bonus? More Redux?>>

Being better trained in armor eliminates penalties for CM, dodge, and DS. If you're overtrained, get better armor. Also, armor training already improves redux.

[Gnomad]

How about an ability to use your shield as a sunlight reflector to reduce the DS and EBP of enemies?this isn't a terrible idea at all

no siree

that said, a semi-rare magic metal that gives say +10 TD but takes away all normal shield DS (leaving EBP as-is) would probably encourage warriors to hunt one-handed from time to time

[Baelog]

<<How about being better trained in Armor gives a CML bonus for some Combat Manuevers? A dodge bonus? A DS bonus? More Redux?>>

Being better trained in armor eliminates penalties for CM, dodge, and DS. If you're overtrained, get better armor. Also, armor training already improves redux.

I didn't say eliminate the penalties, I said provide bonuses.

With empty hands and using Tackle against a normal size biped, like a Snow Crone, I get a Bonus of 10. With one hand occupied, I get No Bonus, No Penalty. With both hands full, I get a Penalty of 10. Why not make it where the more Armor Training you have, the more of a Bonus to those manuevers you have, like getting more Weapon Spec. ranks to get more Bonus to Feint and Disarm.

Same thing goes for Evade, Block and Parry. Provide a Bonus to those instead of just knocking off the Penalty

I know it already improves Redux, which is why I said MORE redux than what it already provides

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I didn't say eliminate the penalties, I said provide bonuses.>>

I know what you said. But it already does that: everyone without armor training is worse off than everyone with armor training. -0 penalty can be considered "super good" and thus the best possible scenario.

<<Why not make it where the more Armor Training you have, the more of a Bonus to those manuevers you have, like getting more Weapon Spec. ranks to get more Bonus to Feint and Disarm.>>

Being fantastic at wearing armor doesn't really make you more nimble. See giants vs. elves.

<<Same thing goes for Evade, Block and Parry. Provide a Bonus to those instead of just knocking off the Penalty>>

Same argument: 0 penalty is arguably the best you could physically get. When you're trained for armor, being super trained for armor doesn't make you any faster to defend yourself. You can just do what you normally do... with armor.

<<I know it already improves Redux, which is why I said MORE redux than what it already provides>>

Why in God's name should armor training provide more redux than it already does?

[Latrinsorm]

This is something I posted on the officials a bit ago (and therefore has probably vanished) as far as armor is concerned:

Overtraining in armor will result in a crit divisor modification. For each 10 ranks over the current requirement to minimize physical penalties, each crit divisor on the body is increased by 1/crit divisor, minimum of 1/9. Hence, if someone had 140 ranks and wore full plate, there would be no change. If that same person removed their set of full plate and wore a set of robes, the robes' crit divisor would increase by 14*1/5 = 2 and 4/5 to 7.8 across the body (superior to brig!). If someone had 300 ranks and wore full plate, they would have a crit divisor of 16 * 1/11 = 1 and 5/11 = 12 and about a half across the body. In robes, that person would have 30 * 1/5 = +6 = 11(!) across the body. If possible (from a balance perspective), apply a similar modifier to DF.

Clearly this change offers little benefit to heavy armors, as it should: warriors are already ridiculously tough vs. physical attacks. It offers substantial benefit to lighter armors, which is appealing.

.

As for shields, shields are already pretty good. I'd go with the TD idea, maybe 1 per 15 ranks for a max of +20, modified as usual by shield size.

[Lysander]

I like TD for shields. I think the general trend is sword and board users suck and twohanded is just better pound for pound in terms of critting and dealing with enemies faster (Best offense is the best defense!). An extra so and so training beyond a certain amount garnering some TD is great maybe up to +25 or something reasonable. That would make sword/board users more desirable.

[Fallen]

Sword/Board is viable with open ambushing. You don't need to do 100+ damage per swing to kill something if you can reliably aim for its head, neck, or eye.

[Lysander]

Sword/Board is viable with open ambushing. You don't need to do 100+ damage per swing to kill something if you can reliably aim for its head, neck, or eye.

It's not as viable as open ambushing with a twohanded weapon. It's far more better actually, since I can usually take physical hits pretty easily... it's the warding spells that usually gets me.

[Gnomad]

This is something I posted on the officials a bit ago (and therefore has probably vanished) as far as armor is concerned:

[...]

Clearly this change offers little benefit to heavy armors, as it should: warriors are already ridiculously tough vs. physical attacks. It offers substantial benefit to lighter armors, which is appealing.

I like the intent, but I'd rather not see an example with no armor/robes. Anything from AsG 5+, fine, say you become such an expert with X armor that you instinctively move to present the most guarded/padded/protected area possible, but it bugs me to think that way with robes. You got the sword caught in the folds? How many times will that work?

[Gnomad]

Sword/Board is viable with open ambushing. You don't need to do 100+ damage per swing to kill something if you can reliably aim for its head, neck, or eye.Here's the rub: if you wanted to just go sword/board, you probably wouldn't be a warrior.

[Latrinsorm]

I like the intent, but I'd rather not see an example with no armor/robes. Anything from AsG 5+, fine, say you become such an expert with X armor that you instinctively move to present the most guarded/padded/protected area possible, but it bugs me to think that way with robes. You got the sword caught in the folds? How many times will that work?It's even better if you're not wearing any armor. Wang of steel!! :)