How to Make Hurling Better.

[Lysander]

Post your ideas here to make hurling/Ranged combat better. List some of the problems, and list the solutions. Which of the ideas do you think Simu will most likely go for?

[Celephais]

Ranged combat doesn't need "power" improvements, it's already taking over as the new OHE.

Of course it could use some convenience issues, but something tells me that's to offset the power (gathering arrows, bundling issues, etc).

Hurling is also mechanically rather strong offensively, defensively it sucks you don't get a properly calculated DS, and carries with it convenience issues along the lines of ranged (even more so unless you have a bandolier).

[Allereli]

make it easier to pick up weapons. a "go weapon" followed by a "get weapon" should pick it up the first time.

If the weapon sticks in the critter, you kill it, and loot, you should be able to pick up the weapon on the first try.

[Lysander]

Ranged combat doesn't need "power" improvements, it's already taking over as the new OHE.

Of course it could use some convenience issues, but something tells me that's to offset the power (gathering arrows, bundling issues, etc).

Hurling is also mechanically rather strong offensively, defensively it sucks you don't get a properly calculated DS, and carries with it convenience issues along the lines of ranged (even more so unless you have a bandolier).


Losing your 10x weapon isn't a "convenience" issue in my opinion though. With ranged you can easily get a 10x weapon going, with hurling getting 3 or 4 4x weapons are probably the way to go. But then this becomes a direct power issue since you lose that 6x difference not to mention most hurling weapons suck in DF versus a Longbow's DF. Theres also the factor of Ranged being able to attack faster and hurling well...taking quite a while in between attacks if you don't have a bandie or spare weapons. Therein lays the crux of the problem.

[Celephais]

make it easier to pick up weapons. a "go weapon" followed by a "get weapon" should pick it up the first time.

If the weapon sticks in the critter, you kill it, and loot, you should be able to pick up the weapon on the first try.

You're aware that there is a reason they have the "it's too far away" message, and it's not to simulate distance (you can instantly "walk" miles and miles). If they were going to bother having a "go weapon" command they'd just take out the too far mechanic in the first place.


Losing your 10x weapon isn't a "convenience" issue in my opinion though. With ranged you can easily get a 10x weapon going, with hurling getting 3 or 4 4x weapons are probably the way to go. But then this becomes a direct power issue since you lose that 6x difference not to mention most hurling weapons suck in DF versus a Longbow's DF. Theres also the factor of Ranged being able to attack faster and hurling well...taking quite a while in between attacks if you don't have a bandie or spare weapons. Therein lays the crux of the problem.
I agree that ranged (archery) is extremely powerful. I also agree that the risk is too high to use hurling reliably with a good weapon, really what they need to do is release a weapon type that's "made" for hurling as a combat method. Maybe a boomerang, or something. I think the best uses of hurling is when someone has a knife/hatchet as situational used for taking out turtled shieldless (2h or runestaff or bow) individuals and having a real weapon to follow up the shot.

The current engageless mechanics do not make for hurling being viable all time combat. I really don't think archery should fit that bill either (no way to maintain the distance).

[The Ponzzz]

There are far more things wrong with thrown than power or usage of weapons.

First up is sniping. Throwing from the shadows was improved recently, however, it isn't even close to how well off you are with ranged (bows). Like level opponents isn't as effective.

Second, encumbrance issues. Thrown suffers way more when encumbered than melee. I could swing in 6 but throw in 11. TWC and thrown is broke. It works ok when light, but once you toss on a few boxes, it's a joke with the RT.

Third, DF factors of natural thrown weapons. Not axes and hammers. But chakrams and discuses. They should be looked at.

Fourth, weapon weight. Chakrams weigh 8lbs. Handaxe weighs 6lbs. This goes back to the encumbrance issue.

Fifth, distance. If distance is there, I should have phantom DS after thrown. Many things have been suggested over the years. But there should be some sort of DS for being further away from the target. Because an engagement system isn't used, this is hard to do. But ranged gets DS. We don't after the weapon is thrown.

[Allereli]

You're aware that there is a reason they have the "it's too far away" message, and it's not to simulate distance (you can instantly "walk" miles and miles). If they were going to bother having a "go weapon" command they'd just take out the too far mechanic in the first place.

I'm just posting what I'd like to see.

[thefarmer]

Post your ideas here to make hurling/Ranged combat better. List some of the problems, and list the solutions. Which of the ideas do you think Simu will most likely go for?

Coming from the guy that whines about 4x spears being hard to find, and too much hassle to carry and pick up from the ground I doubt you'll be happy with any change.

[thefarmer]

There are far more things wrong with thrown than power or usage of weapons.

First up is sniping. Throwing from the shadows was improved recently, however, it isn't even close to how well off you are with ranged (bows). Like level opponents isn't as effective.

Second, encumbrance issues. Thrown suffers way more when encumbered than melee. I could swing in 6 but throw in 11. TWC and thrown is broke. It works ok when light, but once you toss on a few boxes, it's a joke with the RT.

Third, DF factors of natural thrown weapons. Not axes and hammers. But chakrams and discuses. They should be looked at.

Fourth, weapon weight. Chakrams weigh 8lbs. Handaxe weighs 6lbs. This goes back to the encumbrance issue.

Fifth, distance. If distance is there, I should have phantom DS after thrown. Many things have been suggested over the years. But there should be some sort of DS for being further away from the target. Because an engagement system isn't used, this is hard to do. But ranged gets DS. We don't after the weapon is thrown.

Suggestions from a better source than the OP, that I agree with.

I'll add that just like normal ambushing mechanics give a melee weapon weighting, I think enough ranks (possibly double the normal) should give thrown the phantom crit weighting as well.

I'd also like to see a bonus to avoiding maneuver attacks that require close quarters combat (disarm, sweep, cutthroat etc) to simulate the distance a hurler would typically want to be at.

[TheEschaton]

"How to Make Hurling Better": bring lots of water with you into the bathroom, get a comfortable rug, and arch your back.

[Gibreficul]

The "simulated distance" bullshit needs to be fixed for thrown. As for getting a good supply of weapons... I'm gunna get one more rank in elemental spells and eblade critter dropped weapons, especially in OTF where I NEED thrown to hunt the griffins.