Bob's College of Knowledge

[Soulpieced]

Ok, so you've got the acceptance (and denied) snippets in your signature block, but where are you planning to go at this point? I think you should go to Babson so you could be like these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLrgxtALWs

[diethx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLrgxtALWs

:rofl:

[Daniel]

41 minutes on that video? Are you for serious?

[Soulpieced]

It's worth every minute.

[diethx]

It's worth every minute.

Yeah, I watched the whole thing. There was some cheesiness with the storyline (especially towards the end), but overall it's so worth the watch.

[Xaerve]

I'd imagine he'd go to N.E., given where he's gotten in to so far.

[Stanley Burrell]

That was friggin' awesome.

Thanks for posting that vid', Soulpieced.

[Crazy Bard]

Haha

[Nilandia]

College Saga! Best. Video. EVAR!

Gretchen

[Skeeter]

I've never heard of the schools that you were accepted to, but I assume they're small. No thoughts of going to a large state school?

[Jenisi]

It was cute, couldn't make it past minute 8 though.

[Bobmuhthol]

For the record, I'm going with Bentley.

[Hulkein]

Never heard of it. With your scores I'm surprised you're not going somewhere I've heard of.

[JohnDoe]

Bentley is one hell of a business school. Good choice Bob.

[The Ponzzz]

Who hasn't seen College Saga!?!!

WHO HASN'T HEARD OF BENTLEY?!??!!

[Hips]

SAY HI TO WHIRLIN'S PLAYER AT BENTLEY

lolz.

[Back]

I saw this a long time ago but rofl @ victory dance and the extras in the backgrounds.

[Xaerve]

Why did you chose Bentley over Northeastern? Just curious.

[Daniel]

He's been saying for years he's going to bentley. It's still ROFL

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Why did you chose Bentley over Northeastern? Just curious.>>

Northeastern has so many people over such a small area. I'm not big into the idea of living in Boston.

<<He's been saying for years he's going to bentley. It's still ROFL>>

Fuck you? I guess it's no religiously affiliated American University. I must be a fucking idiot...

[Warriorbird]

http://blogs.sohh.com/official/img/Advance_Your_Swagger_-_cover.jpg

[Xaerve]

Yea, Bentley is a nice spot--right near Lexington.

I live pretty close to there, Bob.

[NocturnalRob]

Yea, Bentley is a nice spot--right near Lexington.

I live pretty close to there, Bob.

I think he's hitting on you...

[Xaerve]

Nah, just saying I understood his decision. Northeastern is not in the best part of Boston, either.

[Stanley Burrell]

The charmed effect still cracks me up.

And as far as Bentleys go, Alexmuhthol:

http://www.babybentleylimohire.co.uk/bentley_images/bentley%20limousine%20hire,bentley%20limo%20hire,% 20bentley%20limo%20hire/bentley-limo-hire.jpg

Best to floss that sheeeot, PLAY-BOY-UH.

[NocturnalRob]

Nah, just saying I understood his decision. Northeastern is not in the best part of Boston, either.

Ah, I gotcha. Yeah, I visited a couple friends up there last spring. I'm not a fan.

[Daniel]

<<Why did you chose Bentley over Northeastern? Just curious.>>

Northeastern has so many people over such a small area. I'm not big into the idea of living in Boston.

<<He's been saying for years he's going to bentley. It's still ROFL>>

Fuck you? I guess it's no religiously affiliated American University. I must be a fucking idiot...

I was just stating a fact. I'm done ridiculing you over it ;)

P.s. AU was founded by an act of congress and has religious roots, but that doesn't mean it's a religious college. That would be Georgetown and one of the reasons why I didn't go there.

[NocturnalRob]

That would be Georgetown and one of the reasons why I didn't go there.

that...and that pesky matter of acceptance

[Daniel]

I was :( They didn't have an international development program (at the time, they started one last year) and I didn't like the crowd.

Not that AU hippies are better, but I can deal with hippies but I have a low tolerance for self righteous people of privledge.

[NocturnalRob]

and you decided to go to AU? if you don't mind me asking, why? i spent over half my life in DC, so I know people who've been to both schools. It can't just be the religious aspect of Gtown, is it? Because that seemed to be a relatively tertiary aspect

[Daniel]

Because when I was making my decision I was in Iraq being asked to do things that are categorized as international development and I didn't have a clue what the fuck that was.

I wanted to go somewhere where I thought I'd get something out of it and I figured ID was a good way to round out my experiences to do what I wanted to do. I didn't want to do security studies because then I'd have to deal with "Do you prefer a Bradley Fighting Vehicle or a Humvee??" like 10 times a day. That would have been worthless.

So, I started asking around and doing research and AU is probably, hands down, the best school for international development in the country. It's not really known outside of the IR field (and with good reason) but I haven't been dissapointed yet. At my office in DoS I'd say you have about 1\3 of the people here coming from AU, another 1\3 from places like Columbia\Georgetown\SAIS and maybe 1\3 from other random schools.

That said, I'm pretty sure I'll be going back to get my MBA within the next 5 years or so.

[TheEschaton]

not to mention Georgetown's "religious aspect" is that they're Jesuit, which is almost like being a revolutionary anyways.

[NocturnalRob]

not to mention Georgetown's "religious aspect" is that they're Jesuit, which is almost like being a revolutionary anyways.

and here comes E with a completely ignorant comment meant only to inflame. good job!

edit: And Daniel, I didn't know that about AU. Thanks for the info. Most of the people I know that went to Gtown are at the business school or the law school...and are entirely unhappy, but I think that says less about the school and more about graduate school. glad to hear that you did the proper due diligence and had a good experience. were you planning on going back to AU for your MBA? any particular concentration you decided on yet?

[Daniel]

Yea. I'm not much on the name of a school, but moreso what I would get out of it.

In grad school I'd probably be looking for a place where I could get a solid education on general management while being able to focus on issues relevant to the poorest developing countries. In my field (Post conflict reconstruction and stabilization) you have a lot of people with knowledge and experience in one, but rather both.

I have a full ride fellowship to an APSIA (Top International Affairs programs ) So, most likely I'll do a dual degree type program. It depends on the situation I'm in in about 2 years. My #1 option would be to do a joint program with LSE and this french International MBA program (HEC). However, due to cost (Read fellowship above) I may just do a domestic program. So SAIS\UPENN and HBS\KSG or Columbia are probably my targets.

[Xaerve]

lol mba, what a waste of time.

[NocturnalRob]

lol mba, what a waste of time.

depends on your focus and your educational/networking background

[Xaerve]

depends on your focus and your educational/networking background

Edit: I guess I agree with you--on some level--but I think hard work in a specific industry would always pay off ten-fold more.

Trust me, its a waste of time. I've sat in on plenty of shit at HBS; know several professors there. They'll even tell you that if you're smart enough to make it, the MBA is a waste of time.

It gives no real value to anyone, other than teaching complete business newbs something about the business world.

Bob's stint at Bentley will give him more usable knowledge.

The executive programs at the major business schools are a much more viable choice.

I'm more making fun of our generations general, "I'll do business and get an MBA and then be successful mentality." -- I work for a major US strategy/management consulting firm, at the senior associate level, and I can tell you that almost all of our partners do not have MBAs; nor do they give a shit if anyone else has one.

Industry knowledge is god.

[Daniel]

Yea. That's one of the things I've been dealing with.

In my field some sort of graduate education is expected but I'm already at a level where most people coming out of graduate school won't be at for 4-5 years afterwards. However, I don't have enough experience to get into a good exec education program.

Seriously, one of the main reason my ideal program is in Europe is so I'd get that experience and hopefully be able to pick up some french.

[Xaerve]

Seriously, one of the main reason my ideal program is in Europe is so I'd get that experience and hopefully be able to pick up some french.

I'd strongly recommend doing that. US companies kill for people with international sector knowledge.

We just paid a guy out of Germany almost 1.5x's the starting salary of someone with his knowledge-base of a US industry.

He was a US student who went to Germany after graduation for graduate school. He knows German fluently now and has a great sense of their telecommunications industry.

France will be going through tons (and tons) of deregulation once the EU's finalized "constitution" comes through. They'll also have tons of restructuring in their financial and many industrial sectors, because of the large protectionist polices they currently have. All of this translates into tons of money for US consultants, during the change management process.

[NocturnalRob]

Industry knowledge is god.

Absolutely agree. But coming from my background (dual BAs in English and Economics--labor theory, wtf?) with a liberal arts education, it's been extremely difficult to break into the financial industry. I think that hard work is obviously key, but the networking opportunities--which are more easily gathered in business school than elsewhere--can be worth the cost (both in terms of $$$ and time spent at school).

That being said, I'm now being told that I should just sign on at a hedge fund and work as a bitch (industry knowledge), and that two years at that would be infinitely more useful than two years at b-school.

Maybe I just want some fucking letters after my name! Ever think of that!?

[Xaerve]

Yea, I have friends slaving at hedge funds now who are doing much better than other friends who went to Business School right after college in those new 2+2 programs.

[NocturnalRob]

Yea, I have friends slaving at hedge funds now who are doing much better than other friends who went to Business School right after college in those new 2+2 programs.

yeah, the potential for $ and knowledge is pretty staggering

[Daniel]

Yea. I don't neccessarily want to do corporate business.

[TheEschaton]

If you know anything about the Jesuits place in the Catholic Church, you'd know that calling G-Town a "religiously affiliated school" is LOLable. While technically true, the Jesuits are far from espousing the religious beliefs of the Catholic Church.

[longshot]

If you know anything about the Jesuits place in the Catholic Church, you'd know that calling G-Town a "religiously affiliated school" is LOLable. While technically true, the Jesuits are far from espousing the religious beliefs of the Catholic Church.

Take your bullshit Jesuit talk to another thread.

Bob is an evil soul, and in the future he wants to do horrible things like "work."

[longshot]

My questions/comments are out of genuine curiosity. I'm not a huge fan of carving things up, but you say a lot of different things here.

I took the "lol mba, what a waste of time." quote from a previous post and put it with the other post. It's easier if it's all together.

Don't think I'm trying to bash you. I'd really like to know why you think these things.


lol mba, what a waste of time.

You're not the only person I've heard say this. What is it that makes someone an authority on all things b-school related? And why is it that they can universally declare an MBA a joke?

Some programs might suck, but that doesn't mean that the degree is a waste of time for everyone pursuing it.



Edit: I guess I agree with you--on some level--but I think hard work in a specific industry would always pay off ten-fold more.

I think we can both agree that people too often throw around the "hard worker" tag. Some people would like to work hard in fields that aren't available to them. I don't see how training for a new field is a waste of time.

Good MBA programs allow people to switch careers. There are certain industries that are not easy to enter due to educational background or prior work experience.

I understand where you're coming from: some people go to b-school with the goal of staying in the exact same industry. They think that the three letters they get will help them move up the ladder. I think some of those people should probably reevaluate their reasons for going.


Trust me, its a waste of time. I've sat in on plenty of shit at HBS; know several professors there. They'll even tell you that if you're smart enough to make it, the MBA is a waste of time.

It gives no real value to anyone, other than teaching complete business newbs something about the business world.

I agree that having an MBA is not essential for success, but I don't think it's fair to summarize the curriculum everywhere as "for noobs." Also, I think you might be overlooking the benefits that come from outside of the classroom.

And I know you're an intelligent person... if you were hearing this argument, what would you think? Some guy who sat in on a couple of classes and talked to a few profs is now an authority figure?



The executive programs at the major business schools are a much more viable choice.

I'm curious about this. A friend's been asking me my opinion about going. I know very little about exec-ed programs. In what way are they much more viable?




I work for a major US strategy/management consulting firm, at the senior associate level, and I can tell you that almost all of our partners do not have MBAs; nor do they give a shit if anyone else has one.

You don't have to say which... but if you're okay with it, just a "yes/no."

Are you at Bain/BCG/McKinsey?

I agree that you don't need an MBA to be successful. I'm curious though where you're making you're associate hires from. Or do you promote only from the analyst level?


Industry knowledge is god.

No disagreement there.

But even with extensive industry knowledge, an MBA can be a good thing.

It's one thing if you have experience in health care... but an MBA can help make the transition into health care P/E, or V/C, or go into IB as a part of the coverage group, or become a research analyst for health care stocks, etc...

I'd argue that many of those transitions are unlikely without an MBA. Maybe you think differently. I don't know what your educational and professional background are,... it's possible that those might have biased your view.

I do feel the same way about 2+2 programs... I don't see how they benefit anyone. You can't learn life from a textbook.

The 3+ years out of school is what allows you to gain perspective, and take advantage of an MBA. You have all of your accumulated experience, plus you all of your classmates' experiences.

[Daniel]

WHat school did you end up at LS?

[Stretch]

I don't do investment banking, but I am (at least for another few months) a senior associate at a top ten bank.

MBAs from top 5 schools (Wharton, Stanford, Harvard) typically come in at the director level. MBAs from 5-15 seem to come in at a senior manager level with the understanding of a relatively quick promotion.

After that, it's a crapshot -- I know a lot of people who have MBAs from places like VCU, William & Mary, etc. that get hired at my level (far, far, far away from director).

For myself, I probably won't go for an MBA unless I get into Darden at the least, and I think they're ranked 12th.

[Stretch]

Also wanted to note that it's much less important where you go for undergrad than grad, at least for business degrees. My undergrad business program was ranked #2 in the country (behind Wharton), but I'm confident that I could have gotten as many interviews just as easily with a non-business degree.

I'm sure Alex will do well regardless of where he goes to college. He just needs to be less of a dick.

[AnticorRifling]

So put some letters after your name, hell put some before it too just to screw with people.

Here where I work there are a few phds that I don't get along with. They insist they be addressed as Dr. so I insist they address me as Cpl....now they are fine with me calling them by their first names :)

[Skeeter]

A lot of the 100k+ jobs in my field have a minimum requirement of an MBA. I'm thinking of doing the online thing to get mine just to help get a foot in the door when I decide to move up.

[AnticorRifling]

I have no idea what the education standards are for my field. I really need to look into that and lay down some sort of education path.

[CrystalTears]

A lot of the 100k+ jobs in my field have a minimum requirement of an MBA. I'm thinking of doing the online thing to get mine just to help get a foot in the door when I decide to move up.
Same here.

[TheEschaton]

The ABA just announced that lawyers can call themselves Doctors now, since their degree is technically Juris Doctor. Sounds like a dick move to me, though, I won't be doing it. Esquire is good enough.

Edit: And lol@longshot's need to shoot me down. Someone ELSE mentioned G-town and how they didn't go there because of their "religious affiliation", which I pointed out is no worse than UPenn's religious affiliations. IE, you can totally avoid it and treat it like a secular school if you wanted to.

[longshot]

Edit: And lol@longshot's need to shoot me down. Someone ELSE mentioned G-town and how they didn't go there because of their "religious affiliation", which I pointed out is no worse than UPenn's religious affiliations. IE, you can totally avoid it and treat it like a secular school if you wanted to.

That's what you said, eh?


If you know anything about the Jesuits place in the Catholic Church, you'd know that calling G-Town a "religiously affiliated school" is LOLable. While technically true, the Jesuits are far from espousing the religious beliefs of the Catholic Church.

Sounds a little different than your explanation.

You didn't "point out" anything. You threw out some elitist bullshit that started out, "If you know anything about..."

Oh please! PLEASE! Share with us your unending fountain of knowledge...

Why don't you "lol@" about why you bring fuck all to every thread that you post in?

Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt your day. Please continue ordering a large pizza for yourself with your father's credit card.

[Daniel]

The ABA just announced that lawyers can call themselves Doctors now, since their degree is technically Juris Doctor. Sounds like a dick move to me, though, I won't be doing it. Esquire is good enough.

Edit: And lol@longshot's need to shoot me down. Someone ELSE mentioned G-town and how they didn't go there because of their "religious affiliation", which I pointed out is no worse than UPenn's religious affiliations. IE, you can totally avoid it and treat it like a secular school if you wanted to.

You ever been to Georgetown?

[longshot]

WHat school did you end up at LS?

Kind of curious how other people feel about grad degrees first. Then I'll say.

People have mentioned other industries where they feel they need an MBA to enter.

Maybe this needs it own thread. I guess it's kind of related, given that Bob's going to a business focused undergrad school.

We definitely need an "advice for Bob" college thread...

[Daniel]

Kind of curious how other people feel about grad degrees first. Then I'll say.

People have mentioned other industries where they feel they need an MBA to enter.

Maybe this needs it own thread. I guess it's kind of related, given that Bob's going to a business focused undergrad school.

We definitely need an "advice for Bob" college thread...

I have to run back to work, but I'll start a thread tonight. I'm battling with this question for myself (some of which I've posted in this thread).

[Xaerve]

I'm not being cute, but I am really busy with shit at work atm; however I felt compelled to respond. I do, indeed, work for one of the three major firms you indicated, and also worked (summer internship 3 years ago), at another one.

I'll also state a few facts:
1) An extremely close family friend is a professor at HBS, I have attend 10-15 courses that he/his friends have taught over the years.
2) I have attended/spoke/presented a case on both of my companies (as a representative) at HBS, and two additional business schools.


Now to get to your questions.


You're not the only person I've heard say this. What is it that makes someone an authority on all things b-school related? And why is it that they can universally declare an MBA a joke?

Some programs might suck, but that doesn't mean that the degree is a waste of time for everyone pursuing it.


I'm going to say general statements, from my years of interacting with the business school environment. You often have a very large percentage of individuals (50-60%) who are your typical "resume" hounds, looking for something to increase their pay, increase their "status," etc.

The other two groups that make up the leftovers are 1) slackers, skating through with connections, 2) really motivated interesting people that are using the MBA to spring-board them into another career or industry sector they do not have exposure to.

#2 is the only real reason to get an MBA. You can smoke the networking bullshit they've been pumping for years, but the reality of most business schools is that they are starving for #2's anymore. They're getting "typical" applicants who go off and do "typical" things--going to be a director at some BS consulting firm. They need really creative and innovative people who are going to push them into China and India and other emerging markets. #1 Place that HBS is looking to penetrate right now? China. India is on its way out the door, in terms of teaching it new things. The Indian presence at HBS/other major schools is robust, and healthy. This directly, obviously, translates back to India (this is a pretty commonly known fact).

Also, most programs do suck. The top few, if really done rigorously, are the only real exceptions.




I agree that having an MBA is not essential for success, but I don't think it's fair to summarize the curriculum everywhere as "for noobs." Also, I think you might be overlooking the benefits that come from outside of the classroom.

And I know you're an intelligent person... if you were hearing this argument, what would you think? Some guy who sat in on a couple of classes and talked to a few profs is now an authority figure?


Most people in any industry know that MBAs are a dime a dozen. They also really don't give a shit, unless they have some specific hurdle, like CT noted in her post, to get a job with them that requires an MBA because some executive thought it was important. Mostly, in those cases, you're going to school for a very different specific reason, so some of the above arguments are moot.

There is nothing, nothing, nothing, that they teach in a business school that you cannot get exposure to/learn from busting your ass at a good firm. Get your foot in the door at some small consulting firm in BOS/NYC/DC/Philly/Chicago/California and trust me, you'll be jump-starting your career more than you'd ever know.

Most major firms think you're fucking yourself in an industry to take the time to go back and get an MBA. Two years is a lot of disconnect and missed, real, networking.



I'm curious about this. A friend's been asking me my opinion about going. I know very little about exec-ed programs. In what way are they much more viable?

I'm an academic, always have been. I think that learning something and applying it is the most useful way to move forward. I went to a good college, graduated, and am now busting as in the Health Care and IT industries. I attend some executive programs, through work and personally, that focus on specific shortcomings in my own competency, as well as areas I would like to grow in personally.

The courses are short, give you great exposure to senior business school faculty--the executive programs are taken very serious and are very competitive at the schools. They allow you to learn, while still engaging actively in your given vertical(s).



Are you at Bain/BCG/McKinsey?

Yes, as I stated above.


I agree that you don't need an MBA to be successful. I'm curious though where you're making you're associate hires from. Or do you promote only from the analyst level?

We primarily promote from the analyst level--from a risk mitigation level you have a ton of data/knowledge about an individual, and you're making a truly sound investment.

The best non-internal hires, that we get, are what we call "subject matter experts;" individuals who are 30-35 who have extreme knowledge of a particular industry. They live the jet-set life, and really get paid extreme amounts of money for their expertise on a wide variety of projects at the firm. This has become, largely, our new model. Its been extremely lucrative for all parties involved.



It's one thing if you have experience in health care... but an MBA can help make the transition into health care P/E, or V/C, or go into IB as a part of the coverage group, or become a research analyst for health care stocks, etc...


I think I answered this above? Let me know.


I'd argue that many of those transitions are unlikely without an MBA. Maybe you think differently. I don't know what your educational and professional background are,... it's possible that those might have biased your view.

Certainly a possibility; and I get what you're saying. If you came from some bullshit college (no offense), and have no real experience, getting an MBA can be a stamp to help you through SOME doors. However, a real breakthrough will not occur unless you have industry knowledge + MBA. I think a real problem is the perception that an MBA teaches you something about the business world. It teaches you how to manage information, clean up your thoughts, and move forward with organizing/leadership. That's all useless bullshit unless you have some medium to apply it--an industry, etc.



I hope that helps you. I've made it a part of my life's calling to help advise undergraduates at my alma matter on similar things. The question "why are you going to business school?" never really has a better answer than "networking, or to learn about business" for most people. If you have a better answer than that, then you probably have a real reason to go to business school...

(Sorry about any spelling/illogical sentences or thoughts).

[CrystalTears]

Actually around here they prefer that I get a Bachelors in Science, Information Systems/Technology in order to advance. They're really big on degrees around here to excel, which is why they offer to help pay for tuition. The managers would need the business degrees, but since I'm in the engineering side of things, they want me to be able to code and debug, rather than be management. I'm all for that.

[Xaerve]

Actually around here they prefer that I get a Bachelors in Science, Information Systems/Technology in order to advance. They're really big on degrees around here to excel, which is why they offer to help pay for tuition. The managers would need the business degrees, but since I'm in the engineering side of things, they want me to be able to code and debug, rather than be management. I'm all for that.

You're also a total babe, that helps. ;) !

[longshot]

Post




No need to apologize. Really great post.




I'm going to say general statements, from my years of interacting with the business school environment. You often have a very large percentage of individuals (50-60%) who are your typical "resume" hounds, looking for something to increase their pay, increase their "status," etc.

The other two groups that make up the leftovers are 1) slackers, skating through with connections, 2) really motivated interesting people that are using the MBA to spring-board them into another career or industry sector they do not have exposure to.

#2 is the only real reason to get an MBA. You can smoke the networking bullshit they've been pumping for years, but the reality of most business schools is that they are starving for #2's anymore. They're getting "typical" applicants who go off and do "typical" things--going to be a director at some BS consulting firm.



~85% of the people in my program are career changers. I'm one of them as well. I would think that puts us in the category of

"2) really motivated interesting people that are using the MBA to spring-board them into another career or industry sector they do not have exposure to,"



Also, most programs do suck. The top few, if really done rigorously, are the only real exceptions.

True. I go to a top program that's, well, rigorous... so of course I'm going to agree.


We primarily promote from the analyst level--from a risk mitigation level you have a ton of data/knowledge about an individual, and you're making a truly sound investment.


Do you think this is office dependent? All three of the firms I listed recruit heavily from my school. Then again, it's a top program.

[BigWorm]

I'm not even in the ballpark of considering an MBA, but that was a really excellent post, Xaerve. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Sean of the Thread]

"Knowledge Is Good" ~ Emil Faber

[AnticorRifling]

For me it's certifications, a degree is great but certifications are clutch. I'm currently winding down on the PMP and ITIL Foundation (hoping to have both by Q3). I'm also working on ACE/ACP => ACI (Adobe specific certs). I don't think I'll have those this year but I should be well on my way to hit ACE next Q1 with either ACP or ACI following.

Thus far I've been happy to see that all of my interviews(ers) are more excited to see 4yrs + honorable discharge from the Marines and take that in lieu of sitting in class. It's helped me edge out 4 promotions in 5 years. I honestly think that what I learned in the military, when properly applied to the situation at hand, puts me in a position where no one that hasn't served is going to be me in an interview/promotion board.

[BigWorm]

For me it's certifications, a degree is great but certifications are clutch. I'm currently winding down on the PMP and ITIL Foundation (hoping to have both by Q3). I'm also working on ACE/ACP => ACI (Adobe specific certs). I don't think I'll have those this year but I should be well on my way to hit ACE next Q1 with either ACP or ACI following.

Thus far I've been happy to see that all of my interviews(ers) are more excited to see 4yrs + honorable discharge from the Marines and take that in lieu of sitting in class. It's helped me edge out 4 promotions in 5 years. I honestly think that what I learned in the military, when properly applied to the situation at hand, puts me in a position where no one that hasn't served is going to be me in an interview/promotion board.

Certs are good when you have experience to go with them as you do, but actual experience, even in a tangential field, is worth more than any paper.

[Sean of the Thread]

Certs are great and fairly easy to obtain if you've already got the knowledge and experience. Just takes $$$$$$$$$ and time. Some time can be skipped if you can just jump to the tests if you really know your shit but still.

Put in for your grants early.