Hurling + Weapon Bonding

[Maerit]

Ok, so if I'm fully bonded, rank 5 with a bastard sword, and trained in thrown weapons -- is there a chance that somehow that sword would get lost by hurling it? Would it auto-return every time it was thrown, or is there some way for it to get lost? Can you even throw a bastard sword?

[Fallen]

If you die after it is hurled, will it still return? Also, if someone implodes the creature and your weapon is stuck in him, it is gone. The same thing if a creature grabs the weapon and before the bond can pull it back the creature is vaporized. Neither are very likely. I doubt bastard swords are light, and I believe an item must be under 6? pounds to stick in your target.

You can throw damn near anything, but you need a massive strength bonus to throw some weapons without drastic penalties.

[Sylvan Dreams]

There's a bug in which a hurled weapon sometimes goes into the environs and cannot be searched for. I don't know if a bonded, hurled weapon would return if it gets hit by that bug, and I really don't want to try to find out.

If a creature or a player picks it up and leaves the room, the weapon will not automatically return to you.

[Fallen]

Ithzir also pose a problem, as they can snatch a weapon, then fade on a subsequent attack and never return. Short of these instances, I think you're fairly set.

[Maerit]

Ok, I dont have any problem with the creature/player picking the weapon up... they can't. If a player does, it cuts off their hand so they drop it, and creatures, for some reason, are too smart to pick it up off the ground.

I've never had a thrown weapon character before, but all this talk about how great it is at killing made me wonder. I guess I'm just thinking about whether it would be likely to lose the weapon, and it sounds like theres some 5% or something chance it could fall prey to a bug, or to a badly timed implosion.

My warrior has a massive strength bonus, and it can be further improved with surge of strength, so I bet he could hurl the bastard sword fairly well. Its 8 lbs, so does that mean it can never stick into something? Which may or may not be good?

Also, as far as hurling goes, if its an auto-returning weapon, I thought that it instantly went back into your hand? Like, you hurl it, it hits, and then immediately following the damage it goes right back to your hand?

[Fallen]

Ok, I dont have any problem with the creature/player picking the weapon up... they can't. If a player does, it cuts off their hand so they drop it, and creatures, for some reason, are too smart to pick it up off the ground. >>

Cool. Post a clip.

<<<I've never had a thrown weapon character before, but all this talk about how great it is at killing made me wonder. I guess I'm just thinking about whether it would be likely to lose the weapon, and it sounds like theres some 5% or something chance it could fall prey to a bug, or to a badly timed implosion. >>

Hurling is great, but I don't know how great hurling a bastard sword is going to be. Most prefer to throw things that are able to be easily aimed, hammers and spears being the best, with daggers close behind.

<<My warrior has a massive strength bonus, and it can be further improved with surge of strength, so I bet he could hurl the bastard sword fairly well. Its 8 lbs, so does that mean it can never stick into something? Which may or may not be good? >>

IIRC you should be fine at 8 pounds. It should never stick. You don't really want it to stick. You want to get the message where it is a, "quick flick of the wrist sends the bastard sword into flight". That is the best messaging in terms of penalties involved. You will also want to be gripping this thing with *1* hand when you throw. No benefits for a normal weapon to stick IMO. Just increased item loss.

<<<Also, as far as hurling goes, if its an auto-returning weapon, I thought that it instantly went back into your hand? Like, you hurl it, it hits, and then immediately following the damage it goes right back to your hand?>>

There can be a 3-5 second delay in the weapon's return. This will be noticable when you're tagged because your DS drops due to a lack of training. Going to need a shield, and eventually some brawling ranks.

[Khariz]

At best you can only hurl it in onehanded mode. If you try in twohanded you tear your shoulder and get a huge RT.

[Fallen]

I think past a certain stat threshold you can start hurling 2 handed weapons without those problems. I know you can hurl a spear two-handed.

[Khariz]

I think past a certain stat threshold you can start hurling 2 handed weapons without those problems. I know you can hurl a spear two-handed.

I'd like to know what it is. My stats are all pretty much maxes and I can't hurt a twohanded weapon. Granted I ain't talking abou spears. i'm talking about mauls and claidhmores, hehe.

[Fallen]

Well, Wulfhen had a maul bandolier and to my knowledge he could throw it without being forced into kneeling. The Ponzzz or Dhask would be the best ones to ask. Surge is needed, maxed strength and being a giant would go a long way. Tack on enhancives and now you're talking.

[Khariz]

>hurl hr
With deliberate force, you hurl a massive rolaren mattock!
You throw a massive rolaren mattock at Hrvac!
Hrvac deflects your mattock with his runestaff!
The rolaren mattock flies past Hrvac, disappearing into the local environs.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R>
A massive rolaren mattock rises out of the shadows and flies back to your waiting hand!

Edit: No wounds. Guess I was thinking of hurling claids.

[Drew]

Ok, I dont have any problem with the creature/player picking the weapon up... they can't. If a player does, it cuts off their hand so they drop it, and creatures, for some reason, are too smart to pick it up off the ground.

You're going to a hurl a coraesine weapon?

[Latrinsorm]

To clarify, there are returner weapons which come back instantly (never technically leave your character's hand) and the return function of bonding (which as Fallen said has the short lag time).

[Maerit]

You're going to a hurl a coraesine weapon?

Hrmm... only if it was not possible that it'd get lost due to bonding and that no one else can touch it, but it sounds like there's still that small percentage that makes me not want to do it.

[Lysander]

Also for your info. The GMs have specifically listed "fixing" hurling as one of their priorities. Knowing recent changes this however may include a nerf hidden within a boost, so it may not be all smiles and chocolate. Although hurling really needs some major fixing.

[The Ponzzz]

The strength stat needs to be over a bonus of 55 to start throwing two handed weapons.

There isn't much they could "nerf" with thrown and this fix. The only things that would concern me is to make chakrams/discus more appealing and hammers/handaxes less. But in all honesty even that wouldn't be that harmful just because handaxes and hammers are still meant to be thrown weapons.

Back to the bastard sword throwing. Two handed, you're going to need a massive strength stat. Going to need to be close to a maxed out giantmen strength. One handed is very possible though. I do it quite often with feras weapons. But as E and D have stated, throwing a bonded weapon does not promise a return. I have heard of more than a handful of situations that the weapon got voided (rift mainly) and the player died.

[The Ponzzz]

When I said maxed out giant strength, I meant with surge/enhancives. You can get a total of +40 to a stat (so +20 to a bonus) via enhancives. You will need to be pretty close to it.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Just for shits and giggles

Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 140 (45)

The "quick flick" is the fastest messaging you can get.

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a bastard sword into flight.
You throw a bastard sword at a hunter troll!
AS: +441 vs DS: +53 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +41 = +449
... and hit for 138 points of damage!
Gruesome, slashing blow to the side of the hunter troll's head!
Skull split open! Brain (and life) vanishes in a fine mist.
[You have earned 1 recognition point.]
The hunter troll slumps to the ground with a final snarl.
A hunter troll seems to lose an aura of confidence.
The bastard sword is deflected to one side, sailing to the ground.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

>grip sword
You grip the bastard sword with both hands.
>hurl burgee
Focusing your strength, you heft a bastard sword and launch it.
Your body protests with a twinge. Better not do that again soon.
You throw a bastard sword at a scaly burgee!
AS: +416 vs DS: +152 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +3 = +302
... and hit for 102 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the scaly burgee's skull in, resulting in instant death!
With a final squeal the scaly burgee rears up its head, then falls to the ground and curls up into a ball, dead.
The bastard sword flips over, landing behind a scaly burgee.
Roundtime: 9 sec.

[The Ponzzz]

Hey Debia, was that with strength on? If you can get 509, try with that. And again with 606. I think the phantom strenght those add, you might be able to do it.

[Maerit]

This is me with one enhancive item (which is +5 to strength stat), and surge of strength:

Strength (STR): 100 (40) ... 137 (58)

Yet, I still doubt it would be a good idea to be throwing around my coraesine weapon... Technically though, I don't fight things that implode on a regular basis. Its still a risk I'd not want to take with my... preecciious.

[Sylvan Dreams]

I had 509 in the previous

One handed, with 606

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a bastard sword into flight.
You throw a bastard sword at a giant hawk-owl!
AS: +441 vs DS: +157 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +29 = +341
... and hit for 114 points of damage!
Wild upward slash removes the giant hawk-owl's face from its skull!
Interesting way to die.
The giant hawk-owl crashes to the ground, motionless.
Lacking the force and angle to lodge in a giant hawk-owl, the bastard sword simply falls.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

two handed:

Focusing your strength, you heft a bastard sword and launch it.
Your body protests with a twinge. Better not do that again soon.
You throw a bastard sword at a giant hawk-owl!
AS: +416 vs DS: +157 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +41 = +342
... and hit for 138 points of damage!
Horrible slash to the giant hawk-owl's head! Brain matter goes flying!
Looks like it never felt a thing.
The giant hawk-owl crashes to the ground, motionless.
The bastard sword ricochets away from a giant hawk-owl, landing nearby.
Roundtime: 8 sec.

[The Ponzzz]

Hey, -1 sec rt!

Thanks for trying.

[Stunseed]

Wulfhen also threw his imflass claidhmore for a bit.

[The Ponzzz]

Ah, that's right. The other key to the formula! The two handed weapons needs to weigh 6lbs or less! WUlfhen's was just that!

[Stunseed]

:)

[ThatDamnTep]

You know, I more or less fleshed out the numbers for the higher end two handed throwing crap about two months ago. Most of them aren't as unfeasible as we once thought.

[Maerit]

Ok, also out of curiousity -- how do weapon bonding flares / abilities interact with hurling? I mean, if you throw your weapon, can it double strike in mid-air?

And that being asked, assuming I were to hurl a coraesine weapon (not likely), would IT double-strike flare. That would be a little odd, but pretty cool.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Ok, also out of curiousity -- how do weapon bonding flares / abilities interact with hurling? I mean, if you throw your weapon, can it double strike in mid-air?

And that being asked, assuming I were to hurl a coraesine weapon (not likely), would IT double-strike flare. That would be a little odd, but pretty cool.

You do not receive any of the weapon bonding bonuses (like the extra damage and what have you) when you hurl your weapon except for the AS bonus.

With coraesine, it's different. The coraesine itself might flare (I think) but the second flare from the weapon bonding will not go off ever in hurling.

[Maerit]

You do not receive any of the weapon bonding bonuses (like the extra damage and what have you) when you hurl your weapon except for the AS bonus.

With coraesine, it's different. The coraesine itself might flare (I think) but the second flare from the weapon bonding will not go off ever in hurling.

Aha, good to know. So its not really all that valueable to bond with a weapon you intend to hurl. Grab yourself a good flarer for the type of critter you're killing, and hurl away. The returning part is just a nice little bonus, but since it doesn't really add all the worthwhile benefits, might as well throw spears.

[Lysander]

Aha, good to know. So its not really all that valueable to bond with a weapon you intend to hurl. Grab yourself a good flarer for the type of critter you're killing, and hurl away. The returning part is just a nice little bonus, but since it doesn't really add all the worthwhile benefits, might as well throw spears.

No this is incorrect. When you hurl a weapon often times you will get messaging like "You are too far away blah blah blah" which can prevent you from retrieving a weapon for up to 15 seconds. Hence why weapon bonding is almost neccessary to do hurling...or get a returner or bandie.

But to note again, they are looking into hurling to "improve" it. So you may get something out of hurling yet. Thus far, if you don't have a bandie or returner it's pretty much pointless other then for flare.

[Sylvan Dreams]

No this is incorrect. When you hurl a weapon often times you will get messaging like "You are too far away blah blah blah" which can prevent you from retrieving a weapon for up to 15 seconds. Hence why weapon bonding is almost neccessary to do hurling...or get a returner or bandie.

But to note again, they are looking into hurling to "improve" it. So you may get something out of hurling yet. Thus far, if you don't have a bandie or returner it's pretty much pointless other then for flare.

No, Lysander. READ the guy's posts and my responses. He is interested in the weapon perks that come with bonding - the extra damage flares, the dual strikes, etc - and those do not strike via hurling, only in melee.

[Lysander]

Not exactly.


Aha, good to know. So its not really all that valueable to bond with a weapon you intend to hurl. Grab yourself a good flarer for the type of critter you're killing, and hurl away. The returning part is just a nice little bonus, but since it doesn't really add all the worthwhile benefits, might as well throw spears.

The returning part is like the linchpin to the whole thing it's certainly NOT just a bonus.

[g++]

Not exactly.



The returning part is like the linchpin to the whole thing it's certainly NOT just a bonus.


You know a lot of people will ignore the obvious to further their own argument, but you actually seem to be completely unable to even comprehend anything that doesnt directly support whatever your currently talking about. Do you have Aspergers?

[Maerit]

Not exactly.



The returning part is like the linchpin to the whole thing it's certainly NOT just a bonus.

Yeah, except I disagree with this. The time it takes to bond with a single weapon is not worth it when I could just carry 3 spears. Is that so outrageous?

[Lysander]

Yeah, except I disagree with this. The time it takes to bond with a single weapon is not worth it when I could just carry 3 spears. Is that so outrageous?

This doesn't work. I've carried 5 spears before, it's a hassle and over time your 3 or 5 spear collection will dwindle down to 2 then 1 then 0. This is especially true when there are swarms. Then your 3 spear tactic will be suicide, especially since intelligent mobs will have a tendency to pickup anything on the ground.

What I like to do is bond to my main weapon and have an extra backup just in case. Thats two weapons, and it works well up to a point.Hurling can be VERY viable if you have the right returner though. But failing that you need to bond.

[thefarmer]

This doesn't work. I've carried 5 spears before, it's a hassle and over time your 3 or 5 spear collection will dwindle down to 2 then 1 then 0. This is especially true when there are swarms. Then your 3 spear tactic will be suicide, especially since intelligent mobs will have a tendency to pickup anything on the ground.

What I like to do is bond to my main weapon and have an extra backup just in case. Thats two weapons, and it works well up to a point.Hurling can be VERY viable if you have the right returner though. But failing that you need to bond.

Don't hunt swarming creatures.

Bring a disk with your chosen thrown (and throwaway) weapons.

How hard is that?

[Lysander]

Don't hunt swarming creatures.

Bring a disk with your chosen thrown (and throwaway) weapons.

How hard is that?

It's a huge hassle, especially with some weapons that are not easily accessible like a spear. Each hunt you'll need to spend half an hour to hunt down suitable weapons and/or failing that get some 0x spears or something then find a wand/train MIU to eblade them up. Plus the loss of enchant on these things makes the mechanical value of spears and thrown unusable. A 10x something or other will be more valuable. Throwaway weapons, TRUST ME, after like the 20th hunt trying to scour the playershops or eblading etc. it gets REAL tiresome.

Your best bet is to bond. Bond to a 7x perfectly forged spear or something. Verrry nice weapon. Get some flares on that bad boy and you've got one of the best weapons in the game for hurling.

[thefarmer]

It's a huge hassle, especially with some weapons that are not easily accessible like a spear. Each hunt you'll need to spend half an hour to hunt down suitable weapons and/or failing that get some 0x spears or something then find a wand/train MIU to eblade them up. Plus the loss of enchant on these things makes the mechanical value of spears and thrown unusable. A 10x something or other will be more valuable. Throwaway weapons, TRUST ME, after like the 20th hunt trying to scour the playershops or eblading etc. it gets REAL tiresome.

Your best bet is to bond. Bond to a 7x perfectly forged spear or something. Verrry nice weapon. Get some flares on that bad boy and you've got one of the best weapons in the game for hurling.

Spears aren't hard to find.

Eblades aren't hard to find.

Of course a 10x weapon is more valuable. However, if you have to hunt with a 10x weapon you fail at gemstone.

Did you pick thrown because it's easy?

[Lysander]

Spears aren't hard to find.

Eblades aren't hard to find.

Of course a 10x weapon is more valuable. However, if you have to hunt with a 10x weapon you fail at gemstone.

Did you pick thrown because it's easy?

Again, words and actually doing it are like day and night. Sure, you can look at a pilot sitting on auto for 5 and half hours and go "I can do that!" but actually doing it is a real hassle.

Bond to your hurling weapon or find a returner. Or just go ahead and use the get 10 spears way, just so you get bitten and learn the lesson almost every hurler has learned before.

[Sylvan Dreams]

It's a huge hassle, especially with some weapons that are not easily accessible like a spear. Each hunt you'll need to spend half an hour to hunt down suitable weapons and/or failing that get some 0x spears or something then find a wand/train MIU to eblade them up. Plus the loss of enchant on these things makes the mechanical value of spears and thrown unusable. A 10x something or other will be more valuable. Throwaway weapons, TRUST ME, after like the 20th hunt trying to scour the playershops or eblading etc. it gets REAL tiresome.

Your best bet is to bond. Bond to a 7x perfectly forged spear or something. Verrry nice weapon. Get some flares on that bad boy and you've got one of the best weapons in the game for hurling.



Here is a log of how difficult it is to purchase 0x spears. It also indicates the level of difficulty in purchasing other thrown weaponry types.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. an estoc 15. a pilum
2. a longsword 16. an ash-hafted war mattock
3. a backsword 17. a carved ash-shafted trident
4. a ball and chain 18. an ash-shafted vine-carved partisan
5. a main gauche 19. a jade-inlaid blued steel javelin
6. a tiger-claw 20. a serrated blue steel flail
7. a lance 21. a jade-studded leather cestus
8. an awl-pike 22. a bejeweled katar
9. a Hammer of Kai 23. a triple-strand jade-tipped bola
10. a crowbill 24. a bejeweled blue steel discus
11. a jeddart-axe 25. a serrated blue steel quoit
12. a military pick 26. a jade-studded leather whip
13. a bastard sword 27. a leather throwing net
14. a flamberge
You can APPRAISE, INSPECT or DESCRIBE any item by number, ORDER by number to get pricing and customization options, BUY to purchase, or ORDER HELP for more info.
>order 10 of 18
You ask about the price of an ash-shafted vine-carved partisan, 10 of them.
Your wit and charm seem to fall flat with Gratkor, so you simply name a price. Gratkor says, "A fair offer in any country, town, village, or wayside tavern. But this is MY shop so the price will be 34 silvers each."
Gratkor says, "Since you're a citizen of this town, I'll drop the price to 30."
You may order a QUANTITY of this item, ORDER something else, or BUY this item.

[thefarmer]

Again, words and actually doing it are like day and night. Sure, you can look at a pilot sitting on auto for 5 and half hours and go "I can do that!" but actually doing it is a real hassle.

Bond to your hurling weapon or find a returner. Or just go ahead and use the get 10 spears way, just so you get bitten and learn the lesson almost every hurler has learned before.

You assume that

a) I have no experience with hurling

b) every hurler thinks the same way you do

Both are assumptions pulled out of your ass.

[Fallen]

E-blade is found on scrolls and is completely level based. I think you could even have it embeded and just wave your wand at a bundle of things. 1 batch of rods from Portous and you're set. Never need to beg again.

[The Ponzzz]

Being that I have been one of the supporters of thrown since it's release in 2001, I would say my opinion is pretty good. Using a bonded weapon as a returner is going to be foolish. Its going to bite you in the ass sooner or later.

Bandoliers and returners make thrown a bit more feasible, but in no way is it end all. As a sniper, I would say anyone would want a bandolier over anything. And I believe anyone out in the open, will want a returner. The tough levels for thrown are 50-60.

But this isn't the issue. The issue is if using your bonded weapon as a thrown weapon so you can have a (free) returner is a good idea. The simple answer is no. The ways you can lose that weapon are mostly to normal game mechanics. And then it's not up for replacement. Bonding to a weapon is a good amount of work.

If you want to have a returner, buy one or go without.

[Danical]

Warrior Sheath.

Spears in said sheath.

Problem solved.

[Lysander]

<sighhhhhhhhh> Listen, theres even people saying that EVEN with bonding it may not work. Which to some degree is true. The crapload of spear technique is viable but a huge hassle and you'll only be getting a 4x lightning flaring one at best.

A returner is your best bet due to not losing parry, then bandie, then bonding, then crapload of <insert weapon>. Also remember that the crapload of <insert weapon> tactic severly weighs you down, so if you're treasure hunting it's again going to be a huge HASSLE. Then if you run out of crapload of <insert weapon> you are going to have to cut your hunt short and go back and buy more or whatnot again a huge HASSLE. Further it's just 4x at best, if you're going this route then go 10x and NOT hurl and mechanically you'll be better off.

[Lysander]

And for the millionth time, Hurling is being reviewed as stated on the officials. So if you're thinking about dropping 50 mil on a returner I suggest you wait it out and see what fortune holds.

P.S. Hurling & Ranged in general is being reviewed. I wouldn't be surprised if Simu adds an actual distance/range variable to GS like they have in DR (DragonRealms, a relatively more advanced game mechanically).

[Latrinsorm]

you'll only be getting a 4x lightning flaring one at best.Only getting a weapon better than what the game is balanced for? What a handicap!!!!