knockdown roundtimes

[Elanthil01]

Ok explain the reasoning and mechanics behind me.

Bone golems are a level 8 monster.

Zagrax is a level 8 warrior.

Bone golems have the ability to knock you down, incurring a roundtime.

ZAGRAX has the ability to knock you down, incurring a roundtime.

Zagrax knocks down the bone golem. The golem is stuck on the ground for a MAXIMUM of 5 to 7 seconds. *PERIOD* *NO VARIATION AT ALL*.

The BONE GOLEM knocks Zagrax down, and Zagrax, REGARDLESS OF ENCUMBRANCE OR STANCE is trapped on the ground for TWENTY FIVE SECONDS on 70% of knockdowns, with the other 30% ranging from three seconds to 10 seconds.

Zagrax is 2x trained in CM, 2x in dodge, 1x in multi opponent, is trained in bullrush, has 100 STR, 100 CON, 87 DEX, 87 AGI, 62 DIS.

What kind of programming is this that limits a like leveled CHARACTER to five second stuns but lets the monsters obtain roundtimes in excess of 3 to 5 times that length against a perfectly trained character?

Is this some kind of ERROR in the monster programming I should bring up to the GM's and hope someone actually fucking cares?

Or is this just another way they intend to ass fuck warriors to prove to us that the entire class is fucking worthless?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Bone golems die easy.

[Elanthil01]

*sigh*

Yes, they DIE easily..if you arent on the GROUND with your thumb up your ass.

This isnt ABOUT how easily the monster dies.

This is about whether the monster is using PROPER game mechanics or not.

This is about whether the golems are being 'balanced' with this ungodly ability to make up for their otherwise lackluster combat ability or not.

Because Flat out, as a former professional game master for a competing game (not text based) that I wont mention, I have to say, my opinion of giving monsters different mechanics than the players is just shitty, lazy programming.

Flat out my opinion is this..and its very simple.

If *I* can do something, a monster should have the potential to do it to.

If a *monster* can do something, a player, given the right class and skills, should be able to do it too.

The *only* time this shouldnt be the case is with supernatural special attacks such as a banshees wail, a basilisks gaze, etc. which in such a case should be able to be MIMICED through magic, but never duplicated perfectly.

Thats a little thing people in 'the biz' like to call 'balance'.

[NocturnalRob]

you seem angry

[CrystalTears]

Wow, I can't wait until you hunt roa'ters.

[NocturnalRob]

Wow, I can't wait until you hunt roa'ters.

based on his stat placement, i'm not sure he's thinking that far out

[Elanthil01]

No, this is just temporary stats right now. I havent found any really concrete advice on where to place the numbers for maximum growth, and well, to admit it, I just dont 'get' the stat placement cruncher spreadsheet.

Bear in mind Ive been out of game for well over five years, so at this point discussions of stat growth formulas tend to make my eyes glaze over.

However that brings up an interesting point...I dont recall trees and rooters being that much of a pain in the ass. I always felt they were well balanced....FOR THEIR LEVEL.

Its this particular case of ONLY the bone golems thats got me wanting to scream 'imbalance'.

Flat out a 30 second knockdown is uncalled for if A PLAYER CANNOT DUPLICATE IT.

If you disagree with that, I'll listen to your argument and, if your reasoning is sound, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong..

[CrystalTears]

Not much of a challenge if you can do the same exact thing that a mob can do, huh?

Roa'ters have been killing people WAY ABOVE THEIR LEVEL for years now. When were they "balanced"? Or minotaurs for that matter. Dark vysans are stupid retarded unbalanced, lower in level than bone golems, yet fun as hell to hunt.

If creatures were balanced to players, it would lose so much luster.

[Elanthil01]

Well, for starters, during MOST of the time I've spent in this game, Ro'aters were quite clearly labeled as hazardous to your health, even by the GM's, who gleefully admitted it was intended to be a killer monster.

Outside of their den, there was only one time you encountered them, and that was during invasions, and their sole purpose in those invasions was to kill off high level characters as quickly as possible.

Thats an example of a special purpose monster, something that is carefully placed..during invasions...and in its lair(s)...to give a higher level of challenge to those wanting to 'live on the edge'.

On the other hand, bone golems are nothing like that..you cannot compare a bone golem to a ro'ater.

A bone golem is a shit monster for the shit level grind. thats all. and as such, I dont see where it merits having a power at LEVEL EIGHT that is more in line with a LEVEL SIXTEEN monster.

As for dark vysans..they miss with their abilities often enough to be balanced, whereas the bone golem rarely misses with its second tail lash (but oddly the first one ALWAYS seems to miss).

HOWEVER**

Now that you put it in those words, I can see where balancing EVERY monster to the player would indeed be boring.

I agree, I guess that the ABILITY to surprise the player should be there..but in that case it must be CAREFULLY scaled to the level of the player who will be fighting it.

Overpowering a shitty monster just makes it a shitty overpowered monster.

I'd rather see the golem gain two more CMANS, but have all three (including its current) placed at the equivalent of rank one.

[Deathravin]

This just made me think of something.

What about critter type -specific experience.

Player A and Player B are identical Warriors level 100. Player A hunted Roa'ters when he was that level. They both wander into the Roa'ter area and start helping people.

Player A would have much more experience in Roa'ters, how to read them, what they do, how they do it, and as such will know when to roll out of the way better than Player B. Doesn't that make sense?


That would be right for all critter types. If you have a lot of experience in hunting orcs, you should be able to hunt them better IMO.

[thefarmer]

Bone golems are a level 8 monste, are really fucking huge.

Zagrax is a level 8 warrior and smaller than the golem.

Zagrax knocks down the bone golem, using his superior CMAN skills to make up for his smaller stature. The golem is stuck on the ground for a MAXIMUM of 5 to 7 seconds.

The BONE GOLEM knocks Zagrax down, using its towering size to easily kick over the smaller Zagrax who is trapped on the ground for TWENTY FIVE SECONDS.



Fixed

[Elanthil01]

Only one problem Farmer...Zagrax was 8 feet tall. Hes a giantman.

Are you telling me the golem is 14 or 15 feet tall then? because if thats the case, then I fully agree with you.

However I disagree with it being a level 8 monster if thats the case.

[thefarmer]

Only one problem Farmer...Zagrax was 8 feet tall. Hes a giantman.

Are you telling me the golem is 14 or 15 feet tall then? because if thats the case, then I fully agree with you.

However I disagree with it being a level 8 monster if thats the case.

Actually, I'm wrong.

Bone golems are one of the smaller versions of the golems.

Even still, creatures have always been better at maneuvers than players. It's been that way since before you left.

[Latrinsorm]

Giantmen are more susceptible to maneuvers than any other PC race. Don't play a lumbering stooge and you'd probably have less trouble.

[Stanley Burrell]

Giantmen are more susceptible to maneuvers than any other PC race. Don't play a lumbering stooge and you'd probably have less trouble.

The AG badges/being a Rogue help a little bit. Just not a whole lot. While logically it would make sense to mini-max STR bonus, having to accumulate 7-10 RT per kill is probably the foundation of why giantkin warriors run from swarm.

I've got +5 DEX in my badge (might trade it for AGL) and it sort of helps TWC two morning stars. I think (just a guess) it's a lot more advantageous than a STR bonus hunting the new minotaur/krag area.

:medieval: :shrug: ...?

[Heshinar]

I think one of the problems is that with so many multi-accounts and friendly players a spellup will make a Level 8 Warrior effectively a Level 16 Warriors.

My Level 13 Warrior seems to be able to uphunt 5-7 levels WITH NO spellup.
1/2 Krolvin Polearm. Doubt my stat placement is optimum. BUT 192HP is nice at that level.

How do you balance it then? You got joe Player with every spellup a level 50 Wizard can give you. He gives you the spells because he likes you. Lets not even think Multi-account. Then add AG stuff and Cmans and then what. How is that level 8 Giant valued against Like Level Critter? Balanced? Doubtful.

BUT if you do not take into account the spellups and enhancives then you have people just power hunting like crazy.

It is a tough call.

[Stanley Burrell]

I think one of the problems is that with so many multi-accounts and friendly players a spellup will make a Level 8 Warrior effectively a Level 16 Warriors.

My Level 13 Warrior seems to be able to uphunt 5-7 levels WITH NO spellup.
1/2 Krolvin Polearm. Doubt my stat placement is optimum. BUT 192HP is nice at that level.

How do you balance it then? You got joe Player with every spellup a level 50 Wizard can give you. He gives you the spells because he likes you. Lets not even think Multi-account. Then add AG stuff and Cmans and then what. How is that level 8 Giant valued against Like Level Critter? Balanced? Doubtful.

BUT if you do not take into account the spellups and enhancives then you have people just power hunting like crazy.

It is a tough call.

You could always practice alchemy, heal or not experience round time hunting :shrug: