Need to vent

[The Cat In The Hat]

ok, I need to vent.

So I'm sitting in the landing at an alterers and he decides to auction off a spot. Ishengar goes up to like 1.5m and backs off because he doesnt have the coin. It sells for 3m.

So then, Khordan decides to spin for 3 more, then he's done for the night.

Guess who gets picked first? And not only first... he gets picked TWICE in a row.

You can not tell me this shit isnt rigged. How fucking lame.

Cat

[HarmNone]

That really does look suspicious. Did you write to feedback regarding this issue, Cat? I am not saying it will do any good. I do not know if it will or will not, but I would certainly want to have my say about it.

I might also be tempted to REPORT and ask to talk to a Sr. GM about it.

HarmNone

[Tsa`ah]

While those seem the logical avenues in theory, they are in fact worthless.

You will be lucky to get a response from feed-back that isn't canned. If you're persistent enough, you will get an extremely rude response.

An SGM is only going to say what they have been told. The spinners can't be tampered with.

I never bought that line when they first made the statement, I'm not likely to buy it now.

[HarmNone]

That may be, but if it happened to me, I would want somebody to know I knew it. I guess it would just make me feel better. I guess the only way to really get back would be to cancel your accounts, but most people do not want to do that, so the beat goes on. ::sighs::

HarmNone

[Caramia]

I can't find the link, but GM Zulkata or Gorlash, one of them, posted a whole explanation about the coding of the spinners and how they work. When you read what they said, it's pretty apparent they can't be rigged, unless you're going to accuse them of lying.

They even invited those who thought there were suspicious instances to write to them directly with the details, instead of feedback.

Spinners can't be set to a specific person, they said, and if a merchant picks someone twice, then someone should say something or ask about it. Many merchants are quite clear that just because a spinner might land on someone twice doesn't mean they get two chances.

I'm not clear on what happened at the merchant tonight, but maybe someone can help find that link about the spinners on the official boards, to post here and dispell the black helicopter conspiracy theories.

[Parkbandit]

First of all.. you make it sound like the merchant felt sorry for Ishengar because he couldn't afford the auction.. so he not only selected him once, but twice.

What again would be his motive?

It's a coincidence... nothing more.

[StrayRogue]

It isn't rigged. I'd explain, but I've explained a million times before. People always moan anyways. I think I'll just spam.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It isn't rigged. I'd explain, but I've explained a million times before. People always moan anyways. I think I'll just spam.

I was not *moaning* I do that in bed, not here on an internet chat board.. thank you.

And it does look pretty damned suspicious to me that with 50 people in the room that happens. Do I think they can rig the spinners? Yes. I always have. Do I bitch about it constantly? No, because in the last 6 months or so I've gotten about 40 alterations/services be it at paid events or in frostacres. I cant honestly say any of them were spinners though.

Cat

*Edited to add I was tired, women are allowed to be bitchy when they're tired.

[Edited on 12-18-2003 by The Cat In The Hat]

[Parkbandit]

"You can not tell me this shit isnt rigged. How fucking lame. "

I'll agree with Strayrogue.. this would be considered by many to be a 'moan'. If you don't like that particular word.. try bitch, gripe, complaint, etc.. it all means the same.

Fact is there is no motive for the GM in charge of that merchant to put his GM 'job' on the line to get that individual an alteration. As such, it is very unlikely 'rigged' and merely a coincidence.

Coincidences have long been used as a foundation for miracles, 'proof' of dishonesty and the such.

[Hips]

Originally posted by The Cat In The HatAnd it does look pretty damned suspicious to me that with 50 people in the room that happens.

There were definitely not 50 people in the room last night. Edaarin, who was close to the back, counted the amount of people in front of him (at the very beginning when the merchant was doing room order) and it was only 30.

I don't think it was rigged just because it seems like every merchant event I go to, something like this happens. I don't complain about it, though.

[Solkern]

I've been picked by a spinner twice ina row a few times, and I don't say anything before it, or do anything to make the merchant feel the need IF rigged to pick me twice, shit happens, he got picked twice in a row. if you got picked twice in a row, what would you have done?

[StrayRogue]

RPA's effect spinners.

[HarmNone]

I can see why Cat might feel that something was not right with the spinner in this case. I maintain that if you feel there is something fishy going on, the best thing to do is to write to feedback and/or talk to a Sr. GM. If Zulkata and Gorlash have agreed to deal with the issue themselves, there have obviously been quite a few questions concerning the spinners.

I, for one, do not believe the Simutronics is a nasty beehive of conspiracy. However, I do believe that questions arise and misperceptions occur. I would rather see people take their questions to Simu staff, than for them to believe they have been cheated and do nothing about it.

HarmNone

[Chelle]

If it can be coded, then it can be coded to be "rigged". It is not impossible. They code the spinners so that RPA's affect it. THAT IS rigging it. They can code the spinners so that it follows the 4mo. rule.

It can be coded to do anything by someone who knows how. To say it CANT be done is just laughable in the least. It can be coded to land on people whos name starts with an A. Seriously it CAN be done.

Maybe the GM is rl friends with Isenghar? Who knows.

I laughed my ass off when I read the post about how a GM wouldnt risk his job to do that. :lol: WHAT?! Like being a GM is a well paying job and it would mean anything to lose it. How much do they get paid again?! ROFLMFAO! Oh yes a GM job is a highly sought after, high paying, high profile job and omg lets not lose it. /sarcasm

SO yeah. It has been done. It can be done. And eventually it WILL be done.

[Overlord]

Yeah seriously though i've seen many a GM fuck around. Seen one wearing a backwards facing baseball cap, a shirt with "NY Yankees" stiched onto it and take a guess at what he was wielding....
Another was during the banaltra invasion of the landing a few years ago... he was just strolling around down slaughtering the Banaltras in a fashion i don't quite remember but it did not involve casting or swinging...merely looking and other actions.

As for Merhcants bah, i got my first alter after 4 years of GSing and attenting spinners, raffles and other events. Not to mention simu recently stealing my alteration scrolls. Bah! Righto theres a vent *snicker*

[StrayRogue]

I didn't say it can't be done. As you said Chelle, why a GM would risk there jobs for something they can create easily anyway, is beyond me.

[ElvenRangeress]

yeah sounds kind of like my situation hon .. so don't think to much about it. the guy said he'll do feature alters for the first five people in the room, i was the fifth. then chillwind comes in and the alterer says that chillwind was the 5th .. i was so pissed ... chillwind gave me his spot ... i was very appreciative so i gave him my note, 3mil actually, i figured even that wasn't enough, because getting a feature alter done is like a personal value, and i found it overwhelming, anyhow he spun for five .. guess who got picked... me (and that was the first time a spinner has hit me in forever)! and the alterer knew i gave chillwind 3mil, so i'm guessing he did it to piss me off, but i doubt it, but oh well ;oP life goes on, even though i was pissed and out 3mil

[Edited on 12-18-2003 by ElvenRangeress]

[StrayRogue]

In our country, we call it "Sod's Law".

[Caramia]

Sorry Chelle, but you happen to be wrong here, at least according to that post that on the official boards that specifically addressed suspicions and concerns about spinners.

I have no doubt -anything- can be coded to do anything, but unless you're accusing the GMs who posted of lying, then I'd have to wonder why Simu would allow a lie to be posted on the boards. All you need is one rogue GM who is displeased enough to post the code and say it's a lie. Why take that chance with business? Simutronics is no Enron.

Sorry you're seeing black helicopters where none fly.

The reason GMs don't just make or do anything these days is because the abuser GMs of the past insured there's much more monitoring going on today -- as stated by Melissa and several GMs on the official boards many time. You should read them sometime, they might dispell your paranoia.

[Edited on 12-18-2003 by Caramia]

[HarmNone]

The very fact that more monitoring is going on these days, and that it cannot be guaranteed that a Sr. GM is watching everything that goes on, makes it even more important to REPORT and write to feedback if you feel something is amiss.

I really believe the GMs are trying to curb the rampant abuse that used to occur. But, they cannot do it without help, and complacency is not helping. :)

HarmNone

[SpunGirl]

I wouldn't call GMing a high profile position by any means, but I would say it is highly sought-after by longtime players of the game (I can name at least three).

I would also say that the number of GMs who have BEEN GMs for a very long time speaks volumes about how good the position is. If they like it enough to continue doing it for so long, they wouldn't risk losing it so someone could have a simple alteration. That's dumb.

-K

[Solkern]

Just go beat up someone.

[Caiylania]

I think if he really wanted to give that guy an alter he could have done it much more subversive. The very fact that that guy got picked by the spinner twice is to obvious.

I do think they can be given criteria. I was once told they can go buy last alter dates, or pick newbies, or random levels, etc........ but not a specific person.

[Varsus]

After hearing everying posted here, I would like to add 1 thing to the "Gm's can't cheet" side of the table.

Spinners are coded, like stated, to factor things in. The GM has the ability to "change" what factors they can use (4mo rule ect).

BUT: Your standard merchant is run by a baseline GM, who by the way do not have the ability to change code inside the game. Sure they can alter items ect. But the coding on a spinner, or the creation of unique items ect is out of there area. Alot of GM's are old players, who still play. They work at home using the FE and they work, they have access to "special' commands that other base players don't get. BUT As I stated, They, You, Or Anyone Else can not do base code alteration through the FE... Meaning They Can Not Change The Spinners To Pick One Person. Sure they "might" be able to limit it to race, profession, gender... but who cares? thats a RP'able merchant preference. But that is just an option already coded into the existing spinner that is given to the user "gm" to pick.

Anyways, Hope that helps.

-Varsus

PS: I know the above statements are true due to the fact I know 3 gms and 2 i can walk over to there house and watch them work... these days they are not given the power to "cheet".

EDITED BECAUSE IM TIRED AND CAN NOT SPELL THIS EARLY.

[Edited on 12-20-2003 by Varsus]

[Alixi]

RPA's do NOT affect being picked by spinners.

[Bobmuhthol]

Way to post this two weeks after it died.

nevermind stay posted it so obviously you're wrong and you're the one who should be shot, not stay

[Edited on 1-3-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[LordSagan]

Varsus.

95% or more of the GM's are remote site.

Almost all of these GM's *can* alter the code in the game. Most GM's have scripting privledges, which is altering the code. The Spinnersd are nothing more than a simple script, written by a GM, using the FE.

However, you cannot alter these scripts on the fly the same way you alter your player run scripts. Also, everytime these scripts are altered (or compiled, as it's called), then the script is tagged with the person who altered it. So...anytime a GM makes a change to the code, they leave their signature on it...so everyone knows they changed it.

That being said...the spinners cannot be rigged to pick a specific person. They are not completely random, either. The system they use to pick people in the room could be done better to be more random and be fairer to everyone in the room. They can't be rigged to pick a certain person, however.

Hey sagan, they might not be able to put it to pick "Person" but could they weight to to an extent that a person is almost guaranteed to get picked? I.e. Looking at their merchant number and setting it for that specific amount of days.

[Soulpieced]

From what a coding friend of mine who knows a number of GM's personally, spinners and raffles are indeed NOT 99.9% random.

If they showed me a java sourcecode (just a coding example) of how to make a completely random number, I would believe it. But unless the code is exactly this.

There are 17 people in the room, the spinner creates a virtual 17 sided die and picks a random number 1-17 will a spinner be truly "random".

Again, from what I have heard, this is NOT the case, and if a spinner takes anything other than the number of room positions, then it is in fact not a true random number generator.

[Soulpieced]

What Sagan said, they can't really be rigged, but they are not a random representation. Now raffles on the other hand.... Iscikella's account ("bohemian bardess and bardic archer, ug" ) winning an elemental bow with a .4% chance of winning? Coincidence??.....

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Soulpieced]

Read my statements about augie and insert Iscw\e