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Daniel
03-02-2008, 08:33 AM
ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- A "whites only" sign was still hanging on the precinct house water fountain in 1964 when James Booker joined the suburban College Park police force.


J.L. Booker, who served 32 years with the College Park Police Department, works part-time to make ends meet.

He soon learned it wasn't the only thing off limits to Georgia's new black recruits.

Until 1976, black officers were blocked from joining a state-supported supplemental police retirement fund.

Today, white officers who entered the fund before that year are taking home hundreds of dollars more every month in retirement benefits than their black counterparts.

The now-retired black officers have been lobbying hard to change that, but eight years after they began an effort to amend the state constitution and give them credit for those lost years is stalled in the Legislature.

The Georgia Constitution prohibits the state from extending new benefits to public employees after they have retired.

If lawmakers don't take action in the final weeks of the legislative session, the battle will move to the courthouse this spring, said state Rep. Tyrone Brooks, an Atlanta Democrat and civil rights activist leading the officers' campaign.

"I was hoping we wouldn't have to go this route, but litigation appears to be our only option," Brooks said.

Ronald Hampton, executive director of the National Black Police Association, said he knows of no other state with a similar pension situation. "Only Georgia is shameless enough to still have this out there," Hampton said.

The Georgia House has twice passed an amendment resolution but it has gone nowhere in the state Senate. An amendment requires a vote of two-thirds of each chamber as well as approval by voters.

"We can't fix everything for everybody," said state Sen. Bill Heath, chairman of the Senate Retirement Committee.

Heath, a Republican, argued that making retroactive changes to retirement benefits "opens up a can of worms and could destroy the pension system."

The House Retirement Committee chairman, state Rep. Ben Bridges -- a retired state trooper -- has no such misgivings.

Georgia's first black officers, hired in the late 1940s, entered a segregated system rife with daily humiliations. They couldn't arrest white offenders without a white officer present. They couldn't change into uniforms at the station house -- or wear their uniforms to work -- forcing many to switch clothes in the locker room at the local black YMCA.

Some white officers ordered to partner with a black officer called in sick until they were reassigned.

"It was pure hell," said former Atlanta Patrolman Johnnie P. Jones, the only surviving member of the original class of eight black officers hired in Atlanta in 1948. "The enemy was the white police officers and the enemy was the black citizens. We were under siege."

The numbers of black officers slowly rose in the 1950s and 1960s as the civil rights struggle raged through the South. Although the federal Civil Rights Act signed in 1964 outlawed employment discrimination, change in the ranks was slow.

Officials don't dispute that participants in the police retirement plan before 1976 were almost exclusively white.

"That appears true but we weren't keeping those kinds of records," said Robert Carter, current secretary-treasurer of the Peace Officers Annuity and Benefit Fund of Georgia.

The fund supplements officers' municipal or county pensions. Officers make small monthly contributions and the state adds money collected from tickets and fines.

Booker, who worked in the College Park police force for more than three decades before he retired, said he would be pulling in an extra $770 more a month if he had been allowed to join the fund at the beginning of his career.

Instead, at the age of 76 he is still working part-time directing traffic to make ends meet.

Legislators did enact a partial remedy in 2006, passing a bill allowing current officers who were employed before 1976 to buy into the fund for those earlier years. Only four did, Carter said. And that law didn't address the estimated 100 to 200 black officers who had already retired.

Brooks, a veteran of the two-decade crusade to remove the Confederate battle symbol from the Georgia flag, said this legislative battle is testing even his patience. "I am not hopeful," he said.

And time is running out, as some retirees have died and others are ailing.

"You wonder sometimes are they just waiting for us to all die," Booker asked

Gan
03-02-2008, 08:38 AM
Intresting delimma for the Georgia legislatue.

How would you propose to solve it?

PS. That story can be found here, for those looking to source.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/01/black.officers.pension.ap/index.html

RichardCranium
03-02-2008, 08:42 AM
Do you believe that it would help if everyone, both black and white, just moved forward and left the past in the past?

thefarmer
03-02-2008, 08:57 AM
Do you believe that it would help if everyone, both black and white, just moved forward and left the past in the past?

It's not in the past for the black retirees that are getting less than their white counterparts NOW.

Gan
03-02-2008, 09:03 AM
Do you believe that it would help if everyone, both black and white, just moved forward and left the past in the past?

At first read I thought it was another story about reparations. However, these are folks who are actively victims of a racist policy and a failure of the legislature to amend it.

There was a first attempt to correct it by allowing participants who were not allowed to contribute to the pension fund prior to 76 to buy in (thus infusing the pension pool with the funds necessary to pay back out to the altered term participants.)

If this were a private company, I would say that the pensions should be made up for from company contribution (not participant) simply because its a policy thats discriminatory. However, we're dealing with a governmental agency who gets its funds from the taxpayers. Bottom line is that the tax payers will be required to make up the difference if I predict what I think the outcome of the eminent litigation will be.

Interesting to note about the Georgia state government.

Their current governor is the first Republican since reconstruction.
9 of 56 state senators are black.
26 of 56 state senators are Democrat.
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/peo_list.pl?List=stsenate
I dont feel like counting up the representative side...

Parkbandit
03-02-2008, 09:05 AM
All white people are racists.. and any problems that black people are having is the direct result of all white people.

War Angel
03-02-2008, 09:05 AM
I am torn on this because they took the job, knowing they were unable to enter the retirement system at the time. It wasn't hidden from them. Retirement systems match what you pay in, so if they paid nothing into the system, there would be no matching funds for them. Half of what they are claiming they are due, they did not contribute to.
It'd be fair to give them a credit payment for 1/2 the amount difference, but not all of it.
If I take a job that excludes me from some aspect of it's benefits, and then changes policy, allowing me to participate, am I then entitled to some compensation due to the time I missed out? Color aside?

Khariz
03-02-2008, 01:32 PM
All white people are racists.. and any problems that black people are having is the direct result of all white people.

Okay...

I usually have this attitude honestly. Like "fuck them, they will never stop complaining". But for the first time I can really recall, I think there is a genuine misjustice here.

If the guy was on the force, he should have accrued the same retirement as everyone else. I would have been fine if, in anticipation of hiring blacks, they lowered the retirement earning ratio across the board the year before, or something silly like that. But doing this? This is sad.

And if I think something is unfair toward blacks, it likely is. I'm the most anti-help, anti-affirmative action, anti-anything else that currently gives some sort of advantage for reparations in the past. I just don't think this circumstance is the same. This is reparations for a CURRENT problem we are talking about.

Unlike with the issue of giving free rides because three generations ago we enslaved someone's familiy, this is Dude A being fucked and Dude A wanting help. He should get his full retirement.

Parkbandit
03-02-2008, 02:47 PM
I didn't bother reading it.. since it's usually the same song and dance from Daniel. "Whoa is me.. you have no idea because I'm black and you are not"

TheEschaton
03-02-2008, 03:20 PM
I didn't bother reading it.. since it's usually the same song and dance from Daniel. "Whoa is me.. you have no idea because I'm black and you are not"

Wait, you didn't read it and then made spurious conclusions based on ad hominem conclusions about the person who posted it?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously here?

-TheE-

Warriorbird
03-02-2008, 03:23 PM
Conservatives believe in level playing fields. There's no reason they shouldn't back the black cops on this one.

Peanut Butter Jelly Time
03-02-2008, 03:42 PM
Meh, as has been stated, the people who are suffering this horrible "injustice" hadn't paid in what their "white counterparts" did at the time, so why in the blue hell should they be earning the same now... because they're old? I don't get the same tax return as Kobe Bryant, yet I'm not bitching, am I? You get out what you put in, quit crying and deal with the system. Anyone who puts relevance into race, in this situation, is a moron to begin with.

Latrinsorm
03-02-2008, 03:45 PM
And the reason they couldn't put in is?

Hint: not phantom poor pitching mechanics.

Peanut Butter Jelly Time
03-02-2008, 03:48 PM
Satchel Paige had awful mechanics... what are you talking about?

Warriorbird
03-02-2008, 03:58 PM
I'm sure they'd contribute that amount now if they could. The reason they couldn't at the time was racism. Pretty simple.

Stanley Burrell
03-02-2008, 04:47 PM
All I have to add to this is that I first thought this said Chicago and was wondering how there were people not dead yet ... at the hands of Bruce Willis and Samuel L. Jackson. Wielding a shiny katana.

The other thing that pisses me off about this is that I thought "College Park" was a unique area to Maryland and I fail so bad at Geography that I'm literally worried that I'm going to fuck up what would be an easy A this semester.

The other-other thing is that basically, people need to find these... Individuals, and bitchslap them across the face with a studded frat initiation paddle that leaves chap marks akin to the face of MLK Jr. Not in America, plz. England, obviously -- America, no.

Parkbandit
03-02-2008, 05:01 PM
Wait, you didn't read it and then made spurious conclusions based on ad hominem conclusions about the person who posted it?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously here?

-TheE-


:rofl:

That's completely comical.. coming from you inside your fantasy land.

Warriorbird
03-02-2008, 05:03 PM
I don't think many people take each other seriously here.

Alfster
03-02-2008, 06:16 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v686/pottymouth30/img_0075.jpg

Stretch
03-02-2008, 06:19 PM
George Bush doesn't care about black people.

RichardCranium
03-02-2008, 06:22 PM
Fuck Fox News! I don't listen to y'all ass
Couldn't get a nigga off the roof with a star pass


- Juvenile, "Get Ya Hustle On"

Daniel
03-02-2008, 06:23 PM
I didn't bother reading it..

...


That sound you just heard was the collective disbelief of the D-team.

Daniel
03-02-2008, 06:24 PM
Meh, as has been stated, the people who are suffering this horrible "injustice" hadn't paid in what their "white counterparts" did at the time, so why in the blue hell should they be earning the same now... because they're old?

Because they were denied the opportunity to pay into the system?


I am torn on this because they took the job, knowing they were unable to enter the retirement system at the time. It wasn't hidden from them. Retirement systems match what you pay in, so if they paid nothing into the system, there would be no matching funds for them. Half of what they are claiming they are due, they did not contribute to.
It'd be fair to give them a credit payment for 1/2 the amount difference, but not all of it.
If I take a job that excludes me from some aspect of it's benefits, and then changes policy, allowing me to participate, am I then entitled to some compensation due to the time I missed out? Color aside?

The contextual ignorance of this statement is beyond retarded.

If you were denied the opportunity to receive a benefit in your job based upon your race, sexual orientation, gender or any other thing is protected then you would not only be able to get the same compensation but you'd probably be in line for a fat ass payday from a discrimination lawsuit.

This isn't a situation where people *chose* to take this job, when they knew other opportunities were available. Putting aside the fact that they were public servants, what the fuck are they supposed to do when all the jobs are doing the same shit? Not work?

Putting that fact in, what the fuck are they doing to do? Go to the Police department across the street and get another job?

Uh..right.

Keller
03-02-2008, 10:05 PM
I didn't bother reading it.. since it's usually the same song and dance from Daniel. "Whoa is me.. you have no idea because I'm black and you are not"

Oh.

My.

Fucking.

God.

I could die happy now with the rich irony contained in this post.

You're a fucking joke. A joke. Not even a funny one. But a sad one, that gets pity laughs.

Gan
03-02-2008, 10:35 PM
Intresting delimma for the Georgia legislatue.

How would you propose to solve it?

PS. That story can be found here, for those looking to source.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/01/black.officers.pension.ap/index.html

I suppose I'll repeat the question.

TheEschaton
03-02-2008, 11:01 PM
Allow them to backpay, at the pre-1976 rates, and buy into the pension plan for however long they had been employed.

If you're real nice, be like, "Hey, we'll pay in for you, since we systematically denied you the right to pay in because you were black."

-TheE-

Bobmuhthol
03-02-2008, 11:23 PM
I didn't bother reading it.. since it's usually the same song and dance from Daniel. "Whoa is me.. you have no idea because I'm black and you are not"

Whoa is you is right.

Keller
03-02-2008, 11:52 PM
I suppose I'll repeat the question.

The same way you pay for the new basketball arena.

Parkbandit
03-02-2008, 11:56 PM
...


That sound you just heard was the collective disbelief of the D-team.

Please don't use me for your circle jerk. Perv.

Parkbandit
03-02-2008, 11:57 PM
Whoa is you is right.

You clearly missed the " marks... denoting it was a quote.

Sorry that relatively simple mechanism evaded you.

Keller
03-03-2008, 12:00 AM
...


That sound you just heard was the collective disbelief of the D-team.

Disbelief?

I'd be in disbelief if he could even articulate a cogent argument that opposes any of the talking points he spews. He knows one side to every argument but hasn't ever listened to know what he's arguing about.

Keller
03-03-2008, 12:04 AM
You clearly missed the " marks... denoting it was a quote.

Sorry that relatively simple mechanism evaded you.

:rofl:

Now THAT's the sound of the collective disbelief of the D-team. Shit, I'd say the R-team joined in on this one. Nice attempted save though.

diethx
03-03-2008, 12:29 AM
You clearly missed the " marks... denoting it was a quote.

Sorry that relatively simple mechanism evaded you.

I think he was pointing out that you spelled woe wrong.

Edit to add: Unless that's something that the person you're quoting normally misspells? I dunno, I don't read the politics folder ;)

Daniel
03-03-2008, 02:37 AM
I suppose I'll repeat the question.

Create an executive order that allows them the right to back pay into the system.

You missed the point that even though they opened it up for people who were still members of the force, hundreds were unable to do so because of a state law that prohibited people out of employ of the state to back pay into benefits plans.

RichardCranium
03-03-2008, 06:55 AM
Allow them to backpay, at the pre-1976 rates, and buy into the pension plan for however long they had been employed.

If you're real nice, be like, "Hey, we'll pay in for you, since we systematically denied you the right to pay in because you were black."

-TheE-

This is a good idea.

Gan
03-03-2008, 07:36 AM
Create an executive order that allows them the right to back pay into the system.
Considering that per the article most of those who suffered from this treatment are barely getting by, how do you think they can backpay into the fund?



You missed the point that even though they opened it up for people who were still members of the force, hundreds were unable to do so because of a state law that prohibited people out of employ of the state to back pay into benefits plans.

Incorrect, I got the point succinctly when I read the article.

I was just curious if you had a solution in mind or if you were more interested in pointing out the wrong.

Daniel
03-03-2008, 07:42 AM
I was giving the least common denominator. I'd imagine they could figure out a way to deduct it from the check while giving them more in return. However, if it were me I'd probably just offer to pay it myself, as a gesture of good will.

However, as you all know I'm not about personal responsibility and believe white men are the root of all black peoples problems...or something.