Name 3 things to make GS better?

[Lysander]

Well, with all the rash of players leaving the game combined with many of my friends leaving I have decided to leave relatively soon also. But I'm curious, what would really make GS better and worth the 15 or more to play it?

Name 3 things to make GS better?

[Fallen]

1. Flag/Toggle to squelch instruments
2. Expanded post cap character development
3. Advanced Citizenship/Nobility system.

[Asha]

More fun, less tedium x 3

[Warriorbird]

1. Sex
2. Drugs
3. Rock and Roll

(The more serious version.)
1. Advertising
2. Active GM spurred roleplaying events/NPCs/enforcement
3. Less of a "here are the reasons we can't do that" mentality and more of a "here are the reasons why we can" mentality

[Bobmuhthol]

1. Get rid of GM idiocy.
2. I used to have better ideas.
3. Allow PvP for fuck's sake.

[Kitsun]

1. Lawless blood bath zones where if people want to be morons, they can murder each other at will. I don't even participate but giving them a place to vent is better than them trying to skate policy all over the place.
2. Maybe some kind of annual or seasonal gift to continuously activate accounts just for playing. Some stupid trinkets like a 10 times a day snow-ball maker or a little once a day sparkler. Nothing game breaking but just a RP trinket.
3. GMs figuring out the capacity of a room load where item scroll means game-wide lag and hard coding a limit of some kind so invasions/special events don't blow out the whole freaking thing.

[Stretch]

1) More active quests. The last fun one was the Jant invasion like three years ago.
2) More nifty item releases.
3) Release the Plat resources and funnel back into Prime. WTF is the point of focusing resources for a community 10% the size of Prime?

[Fallen]

It is odd to see people asking for more quests. There were 3 quests going on at once. Grimswarm, Onar, and Minotaur.

[Bobmuhthol]

The quests blow dick, though.

[Warriorbird]

Right... there's a massive difference between "quests" and quests one wants to play.

Non interactive invasion fests tend to only be fun for people who are obssessed with powergaming like you, Fallen. I don't think they shouldn't exist... but they don't thrill me.

[Fallen]

People seemed to love the Grimswarm quest at first. Now everyone is being tired of being jumped by Orcs and shit. Heh.

[Fallen]

Powergaming? If I am a powergamer what are you? An avid casual player?

[The Ponzzz]

3) Release the Plat resources and funnel back into Prime. WTF is the point of focusing resources for a community 10% the size of Prime?

If they forced us to port over, I'd be filthy rich!

[Stretch]

Oh.

I stopped playing in like November, so I guess they were just waiting for me to leave.

:(

[AestheticDeath]

Not that I am really a quest person myself, but I think they need to shake things up a bit there. Quests don't always have to have large invasion forces involved. And they don't have to have death to PCs as a result. I pretty much logged off my dwarf when the dwarf sickness thing was going on. Never played him though he was at the time my main character.

Try something where like, there are NPCs dead bodies all over some area, and the PCs have to rescue them. Maybe some quests for finding a lost civilization. Make everyone read the room descriptions and travel the Elanthian globe to find the new area. Recall how you have to walk for like three hours to find Ta'illistim when it came about? Do something like that except have more then one end spot. Make it so more than one person can be the first to a new area. Or something. Who knows.

[Warriorbird]

Anybody who isn't comfortable roleplaying until they cap or near cap is a powergamer, Fallen. It's a gaming path that a bunch of people follow. Heck, GS's PM follows that same path. It just isn't everybody.

It takes a hell of a lot to seriously handle quest running. Given as I practically gave my marriage over to someone trying it I appreciate that. They could do better though.

[Snapp]

1. Monks
2. Monks
3. Monks


J/k, but following thru on some of their promised releases would be nice. And a PvP ("Fallen") area.

[Warriorbird]

I would love an area entirely devoted to killing Fallen's PC.

;)

[Fallen]

Anybody who isn't comfortable roleplaying until they cap or near cap is a powergamer, Fallen. It's a gaming path that a bunch of people follow. Heck, GS's PM follows that same path. It just isn't everybody.

It takes a hell of a lot to seriously handle quest running. Given as I practically gave my marriage over to someone trying it I appreciate that. They could do better though.

Why do you think I didn't roleplay until I capped? I spent most of my time leveling in River's Rest and Icemule Trace. I roleplayed in both locations. I joined the Obsidian Tower well before I capped. It wasn't that I didn't roleplay before I capped, it just didn't take me 5 years to do so.

heh.

[Fallen]

Not that I am really a quest person myself, but I think they need to shake things up a bit there. Quests don't always have to have large invasion forces involved. And they don't have to have death to PCs as a result. I pretty much logged off my dwarf when the dwarf sickness thing was going on. Never played him though he was at the time my main character.

Try something where like, there are NPCs dead bodies all over some area, and the PCs have to rescue them. Maybe some quests for finding a lost civilization. Make everyone read the room descriptions and travel the Elanthian globe to find the new area. Recall how you have to walk for like three hours to find Ta'illistim when it came about? Do something like that except have more then one end spot. Make it so more than one person can be the first to a new area. Or something. Who knows.

A good quest not involving a lot of invasions was the Wrath of the Kiramon. 90% of it was dealing with the NPCs and brewing potions and such. There was SOME killing, but for the most part the plot was forwarded by interaction and experimentation.

[Warriorbird]

I spent most of my time leveling

Nothing wrong with it. You're just going to enjoy certain things more than most folks. I admire your intestinal fortitude for GS. I don't possess it.

I enjoyed the Wrath of the Kiramon a fair bit.

[Fallen]

Did I web you and laugh as you struggled or something? You really don't seem to like Evarin.

Edited to add, I don't think the end all and be all of roleplaying involves staying level suck for your entire GS career. I never understood that ideal.

[Warriorbird]

Nope! Never seriously bothered me using mechanics once. I've just felt that there's an overload of limited interaction lots of invasion quests and it is much easier to enjoy those when you're using a powerful character. I don't "like" Evarin but I think you roleplay him quite well. I didn't think like was what you were after.

[Fallen]

I agree that there IS a problem with quests and invasions if you are low level. The only way you can really deal with this problem is to separate creatures by their level, and block higher level characters from coming in there and killing everything.

This was done rather well on the Wavedancer during the Krolvin raid quest. You're also seeing this being done with the Grimswarm, but it doesn't work when near and capped characters spawn them and leave them behind.

My idea of fun isn't sitting in a Ballista tower during an invasion, but hey. Atleast they are trying.

[Warriorbird]

I never had much of an issue during the GSS. The main issue with that was the disastrous pace. There's a lot more creative ways of handling it. They just aren't being used.

[Fallen]

GSS was far too cliquish for my tastes, but I understand people built their characters around it and all that.

[LordBacl]

#1 Stop nerfing.
#2 Stop adding 'balance' and 'realism'
#3 Add more (not less) to game systems & spells.

[Warriorbird]

Not me, but I agree, Fallen... I know many who did. I just feel like there's a lot more depth and variety that's being untouched. It's one of the reasons I'm not throwing myself back into GS. There felt like a vast dead zone without anything that caught my interest. Toss on being bored with the fry/unfry mechanic and it was the end for me.

[Fallen]

Ok, i'll bite. Who the hell did/do you play?

[Warriorbird]

I'm most known for Jacinto. The others forwarded my own powergaming tendencies.

2nd 3 suggestions for GS.

1. Don't treat PVPers as some sort of horrible heathens. They're trying to have fun.
2. Consider actively destroying excess landscape. GS has too much empty space.
3. Cash sales from the company.

[875000]

I agree that there IS a problem with quests and invasions if you are low level. The only way you can really deal with this problem is to separate creatures by their level, and block higher level characters from coming in there and killing everything.

This was done rather well on the Wavedancer during the Krolvin raid quest. You're also seeing this being done with the Grimswarm, but it doesn't work when near and capped characters spawn them and leave them behind.

My idea of fun isn't sitting in a Ballista tower during an invasion, but hey. At least they are trying.


Yeah.

The basic problem with quests involving invasions -- or even one or two high combat advesaries at the end -- is that it almost forces you to be capped or near that to see things through.

The levels of creatures are ramped up to meet the highest level characters combating them. The net result is that people underneath that level are killed or are banking on the fact that they slip through combat. End result -- only certain people can fully participate. Considering that a number of capped characters consistently insert themselves into these events, that means that 90%+ of the games population are going to get locked out, usually at the most critical moment.

Over the years I saw some of the alternatives. Usually, a key figure was generated at a level where most PC's could interact with it. A character over that level would then summarily kill it. Adding salt to everyone's wounds, the player behind that character would usually make no attempt to roleplay or -- worse still -- a mockery of an attempt (i.e., "I killed the child because I hate human children," or "It was just a <insert name of creature>"). Or, an invasion force was created of lower level creatures. Along comes a high level character, casts a mass effect spell of his or her choice, and the invasion is over.

In terms of what I think needs to be done to help some of these quests ...

1. If someone wants to act like a jackass, let them occassionally. But there should be consequences for that sort of behavior. For example, want to kill the human child in town? Congratulations -- you succeed. But the local law enforcement is not very happy now, and has decided to levy a fine of 15 million. Pay up now, or they won't give you back all that nice equipment you had on at the time. If word gets around of some getting their come-uppance for that type of behavior, people will become more reasonable.
2. Bar characters of higher levels from participating in certain types of invasions or combat. If they want to roleplay or assist in other ways like rescues, great. However certain invasions and challenges need to be set aside for characters of a particular level range. Capped characters still uber encounters and a chance to shine in certain invasions, while lower level characters do as well.
3. Stop trying to create a hunting group for all levels within a town. Part of the reason why River's Rest and Sol Haven residents developed really tight nit communities was through shared experiences. It is much more difficult trying to balance those across 100 levels than 20 or even 50. I honestly have no problem forcing people to eventually move on if its results in newer players having a wonderous experience.
4. Create non-combat quests. Based on what I have read on the officials, there appears to be more of a movement to do that. GM's are experimenting with different models as well. Events like these give everyone an equal bite at the apple.

[Methais]

1. Remove cap.
2. Release new post cap areas fast enough to keep up with the pwnage.
3. Bring back shit like the spitfire and juggernaut and GM auctions and don't make them pay events and release some decent shit for a change.

[Kitsun]

1. Remove cap.
2. Release new post cap areas fast enough to keep up with the pwnage.
3. Bring back shit like the spitfire and juggernaut and GM auctions and don't make them pay events and release some decent shit for a change.

I couldn't disagree more with the first point. They'll never be able to keep up with number 2 without level compression like what they proposed which makes 1 and 2 pointless, at least in my opinion.

[Warriorbird]

So... what are your ideas?

[Kitsun]

My ideas? I posted mine further up.

None of my ideas are directly related to post-cap. My characters are post-cap but I fully understand why Simu won't spend huge amounts development time for a vast minority of the player base.

[Warriorbird]

While I wouldn't say a majority or even a minority of development should be spent... SOME isn't a crime to me. I think the theoretical ability to keep going forever made people feel that the game was bigger. Some people were level 300? Oh well. I didn't care.

[DCSL]

1a. Pay the GMs more/at all so that Simu can maintain some sort of quality control. 1b. Make all said GMs take and pass customer service courses or be severely limited in customer interaction. 1c. Enforce customer service standards universally and not just whenever they feel like it, when they're having a good day.

2. Taken from someone earlier in the thread, stop treating CvC like it's something dirty. Put more systems in enabling it instead of trying to prevent it. Or just make an area for it and let 'em run loose.

3. Also agreed from someone earlier in the thread. Cash sales from the company!

[Kitsun]

I thought it would be hilarious if they had MAKE A PRINCE packages. Full title, small keep, a whole bunch of levels, fully customized wardrobe, etc.

[DCSL]

Pfft. If I had my pick of titles... I think I'd go with Duchess.

[The Ponzzz]

Custom titles in Platinum at level 60 (post title) and level 100 (pre title)

/shameless Platinum Plug

[DCSL]

I like to see more than two other people on any given day in my MMORPG experiences. And droppage blows.

[The Ponzzz]

We got 47 right now (in game)! Droppage is awesome! Death has some meaning! Tactics are actually needed when you hunt!

[DCSL]

I didn't mean seeing people ON but seeing people.. on any given day. I bet if I went there now there'd still only be a handful of them in any part of the game I'd have access to without dying.

[The Ponzzz]

People-Shmeeple! Who needs people when you can just PWN everything anyways!! Hahahaha!

[Stanley Burrell]

Over the years I saw some of the alternatives. Usually, a key figure was generated at a level where most PC's could interact with it. A character over that level would then summarily kill it. Adding salt to everyone's wounds, the player behind that character would usually make no attempt to roleplay or -- worse still -- a mockery of an attempt (i.e., "I killed the child because I hate human children," or "It was just a <insert name of creature>").

During a recent paid event, there was someone who did this and it was so fucking shitty. There was an extremely important PC (GM-controlled) made to be killed, and several folks had literally been spending 36 hours doing cartographic research on the paid event grounds in concurrence with the ongoing storyline; versus spending even a moment's break at a special flare merchant/padder/unlocker (even after it had been announced) because of how dedicated these individuals were to the ongoing quest. Kazami broke The Matrix trying to decipher the plot, only to understand that the storyline had to unlock itself at a GM intervention's level -- And then have a "final conflict" chamber, navigated towards by a questing group, only to have someone off the boss PC rooms away. Which really sucked ostrich eggs.

I essentially learned then and there why this person was referred to by many as a man-harlot. It was about as irritating as MUDding can get.

[Khariz]

1. Lawless blood bath zones where if people want to be morons, they can murder each other at will. I don't even participate but giving them a place to vent is better than them trying to skate policy all over the place.


YES PLZ

[Miscast]

1) Emeradan dies
2) House of Dreadnaught burns
3) Major Summoning

[Tolwynn]

1. Reduce, if not eliminate, a number of the timesinks inherent to the game - experience absorption, death recovery, society steps, artisan and guild ranks, ad nauseam. Tired of the bulk of your population idling away at tables? Stop making every last damn mechanic in the game support it, maybe.

2. Introduce other types of quests than the typical grinding e-peen invasion that inevitably terminates with contrived GM-driven deus ex machina. Set up more adventurer's guild sort of stuff. Set up more stuff like the katana quest. Tweak the katana-like ones monthly some so the solutions are never readily available for any long period of time. Definitely do more like the recent Onar one, with explicit instructions to involved GMs to try and involve others than the typical quest whore cadre.

3. Put more high-ticket items into the game. Worried about proliferation? Make the ones during the big pay events permanent, and the ones distributed free in game temporary/breakable/what have you. City of Heroes, for example, does this to great effect - some items/powers last for just one mission, some for so many uses, others for spans of real time or time spent in game. Give folks a taste of the bigger stuff, and they'll only be hungry for more.

[Asha]

Omg I agree with Tolwyn 1billion percent.
The time sinks are over the top and when deaths sting is there sometimes you think oh fuck it then.

And I can definately vouch that Fallen has RPd even when he was weak as shit and could be killed by a girl.

[radamanthys]

Open one of the towns to CvC. "Abandon hope all ye who enter here". No exp in that town.

If you want to enforce RP, in the vein of RPAs, I'd make Roleplay Losses, as well.

More invasions, but with direct focuses. Invasions end up being a "which capped player has the fastest typing and highest CS on their AoE? It'd be interesting to have a few invasions targeted at the 20, 40, 60 so ranges. Temporarily drop everyone down. It wouldn't be for every invasion, but it'd help for inclusiveness. I'm sure a couple people would be like "I can't lord over the other players and make them go 'ooooh wow'? Fuck that". Maybe even make the focus of the invasion to actually destroy the town. Heck, we'll be razing villages... why wouldn't they be doing the same to the town? If enough critters get through the gate, give them a target... like the bank. If they overrun, the bank is shut down for a while, maybe a day or something. It'd prevent the premature ejaculation dissapointment of invasions. Oh, it's over? That was... quaint.

Rare critters on random spawn. Kinda like a silver mob in WoW, if they still do that.

Instead of "GM logs on and locates the typical mission crew", allow others to show a bit of their flare for RP. Things that would show what your character's alignment really is.

A profile-like inclusion for a (OOC) way for GMs and other players to view your character's backstory/characteristics. If it's a locker character, or you want to power level, have a field to prevent GM interaction from interruption.

More than three, I know, but just some interesting ideas.

[Latrinsorm]

Make the environment live. If the room description says "a rock glints in the sun", make that rock palpable. If the room description says "a tree branch lies across the road" and I have a fireball, that branch ought to burn.

A consequence of this is that some people will be dicks and try to destroy everything, even (and especially) useful objects like staircases. Allow items to be reconstructed, perhaps with a quest. Make consequences for all actions, whether legal or supernatural.

Ban people who whine about nerfing after any change of any kind. Seriously.

[ViridianAsp]

It is odd to see people asking for more quests. There were 3 quests going on at once. Grimswarm, Onar, and Minotaur.


Maybe something a little more low level. Not everyone can participate. Onar one only a select few got to be apart of that.

1. I'd like to see more Arkati vs Arkati, quests.

2. THE MOTHER FUCKING TEHIR DOCUMENTS RELEASED ALREADY.

3. Better time management with projects, like Monks and Savants they've been RSN for way too long.

[CrystalTears]

I don't see why quests have to equal constant invasions.

Escort quests are bad enough with the ambushing bandits, let alone the ambushing Grimswarm that come in packs of at least three. Fucking hell.

For the most part, there is no way to have GS quests done fairly where a lot of people participate and are acknowledged. There's just no way that I can see. It's the same principle as merchants... the same people will always show up because those are the people who want it the most and go out of their way to be a part of it. It's hard to compete with that.

[ViridianAsp]

I don't see why quests have to equal constant invasions.

Escort quests are bad enough with the ambushing bandits, let alone the ambushing Grimswarm that come in packs of at least three. Fucking hell.

For the most part, there is no way to have GS quests done fairly where a lot of people participate and are acknowledged. There's just no way that I can see. It's the same principle as merchants... the same people will always show up because those are the people who want it the most and go out of their way to be a part of it. It's hard to compete with that.


True, I don't like the constant invasion factor of most quests...

And true it can't really be done fairly, but it would be nice if the GMs integrated new faces, those who really want to be apart of it and work for it, a lot get pushed to the side, a lot of people I've known who play the game and I thought deserved to be apart of quests sometimes never got the chance.

I've had my character get a few small parts in quests, but you really have to put the effort forth.

[Flurbins]

3 things.

1: Get rid of plat and focus those resources on the real game.

2: Stop with the bogus project release dates. Lol savants 2004

3: Stop with being assholes about bugs. Just recently there was a thread on the officials about people talking about bugs, and Emeradan was all: You haven't reported them, wtf, you're asking for trouble. We all know you can report a bug every day and they'll let it slide for years, so either fix when reported, or don't act like dicks when people give up on it.

[Celephais]

1. Lower the price
2. Remove ridiulous timesinks, exp absorbtion has been mentioned (I can understand no letting pure hunting as exp would go by too fast), but how about when the ferryman decides to go on break; there is no benefit to this, there is no "log out and awake on the other side" like the teras boat.
3. Consistency... make rules, have those who enforce them learn them, and then stick to them. This goes for PvP, Alteration rules, OOC violation, whatever.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

1) Drop plat
2) Introduce non-catostrophic breakage which only warriors can repair.
3) Create monsters that track/follow a person and could chase them into town
4) make halflings more awesome (more awesome than they already are!)

[CrystalTears]

1) Get rid of basic, make premium basic, and lower the price.

2) Stop making empty promises about what is coming out when. I'd rather they not say anything at all and just surprise us when it comes out. Mail system... pft.

3) Have the ability to pay for festivals/events with silver.

4) I don't want to see GMs in the game. Ever.

[ViridianAsp]

1) Get rid of basic, make premium basic, and lower the price.

2) Stop making empty promises about what is coming out when. I'd rather they not say anything at all and just surprise us when it comes out. Mail system... pft.

3) Have the ability to pay for festivals/events with silver.

4) I don't want to see GMs in the game. Ever.


I completely agree with these especially the no GMs in the game thing.

[875000]

2) Stop making empty promises about what is coming out when. I'd rather they not say anything at all and just surprise us when it comes out. Mail system... pft.


I actually disagree with the eventual conclusion of this one.

Accountability is good. I think it should be standard practice to state developmental goals and timelines. If a timeline cannot be met, developers should just warn people ahead of time, give an explaination why, and then provide the tentative release date. GM's like Akaydar, Oscuro, and Estild have earned my respect for approaching issues in this manner.

As it stands now, some GM's refuse to release any information on developmental goals -- citing the concern that they do not want to feel bound by it or have to explain why they missed the release date. As a customer, I feel that one or two GM's, such as Nilven, hide behind this and refuse to state anything out of fear of being held accountable.

[875000]

During a recent paid event, there was someone who did this and it was so fucking shitty. There was an extremely important PC (GM-controlled) made to be killed, and several folks had literally been spending 36 hours doing cartographic research on the paid event grounds in concurrence with the ongoing storyline; versus spending even a moment's break at a special flare merchant/padder/unlocker (even after it had been announced) because of how dedicated these individuals were to the ongoing quest. Kazami broke The Matrix trying to decipher the plot, only to understand that the storyline had to unlock itself at a GM intervention's level -- And then have a "final conflict" chamber, navigated towards by a questing group, only to have someone off the boss PC rooms away. Which really sucked ostrich eggs.

I essentially learned then and there why this person was referred to by many as a man-harlot. It was about as irritating as MUDding can get.

People like that man-harolt need to be slapped down. Hard.

Fine them an obscene amount. If they squeal like a pig over this, point out their level of annoyance is nothing compared to the 5-20 other people they just twerked off. When they stamp their feet and try to argue "I can do whatever I want," point out "yes, you can -- but that does not meet you can choose to avoid the consequences."

[DCSL]

I want to know who the man-harlot was. I mean, I can think of a few male quest hogs but I don't know which one you mean. Who? Name names, people.

[Fallen]

Perigourd killed the NPC in the manner described above.

[Methais]

1. Pay the dev GMs so that making GS better can be their real job and not their spare time slavery.

2. Lighten up on shooting down all the good ideas that other players/GMs come out with (see Tigermist's posts in the Khaladon pwned thread for an example). Like someone else posted, they should be more about "Here's why we can do this." instead of "Here's why we can't do anything fun or cool, ever."

3. Free for all PvP area, either as a separate "island" type area, or a mostly parallel world of Elanthia...sorta like the light and dark world in A Link to the Past. If nothing else, all the deed money spent would be at least a fairly decent silver drain, with people dying left and right. Or just release GS: The Fallen.

4. Erect a Methais shrine in the center of every major town.

EDIT: LOL @ Perigourd

[DCSL]

Ah. Yeah, my favorite male quest whore.

[875000]

Perigourd killed the NPC in the manner described above.

Perigourd is not the only one who pulled crap like that.

1. In the late 90's a bunch of kobolds robbed the bank. Over the course of a few hours its was revealed that the kobolds were all headed back to the location of where they hid the money. Follow the kobolds -- find the loot. Problem was, some idiot got it in his head to kill the kobolds. His rationale -- only after he killed the last one: "I hate kobolds." The real reason? The kobolds each had a unique costume and he wanted pieces of it for resale. Someone figured it what he was up to, grabbed the item he wanted ("a tiny black mask") on the last kobold and then tossed it into a garbage can. The dingbat then proceeded to whine over the amunet and assisted, demanding that a GM replace the mask. Net effect: first attempt at this side-quest ended prematurely. The person who tossed the mask also allegedly got pulled up into a consultation lounge, but was let off with a warning. A few years later I heard that a GM eventually repeated the same role playing scenario. I have no idea how it turned out the second time.

2. A "Wood Elemental" appears in Stone Valley in the 1990'a. "Emo Dark Elven Sorcerer" appears in the middle of the interaction and gets a lucky shot in. Beset by a horde of angry players, he claims that he did not realize killing the elemental was wrong. No one ever found out what the Wood Elemental wanted to tell them.

3. A human child appeared in town in the early 2000's, mentioned that he was lonely, and asked people to play with him. "Idiot Dark Elven Wizard" launches several unsuccessful ambush attacks against the child, gets slapped around by people protecting the child, but eventually gets a lucky shot in and crit kills him/it with a boil earth. GM brings the child back. "Idiot Dark Elven Wizard" continues the attacks, forcing several players to break off from the interaction, forgoing seeing things through, and put him down permanetly. According to the ghost of the Wizard, he tried to kill the child because he was "Dhe'nari" -- no clue if he was sincere or not, as we did not have racial flags then identifying a specific type of Dark Elf.

4. A "silly kobold" (or something close to that) wanders into town -- most likely early 2000's. Through the course of conversation, it reveals that it "found something." "Waste of Flesh" walks into the rooms, sees the unusual creature, and then decides to launch a surprise attack and kills it before it can tell anyone what that "something is." GM tries to find a creative work-around. "A Pregnant Kobold" appears, looking for her husband. Less than a minute later "Waste of Flesh" reappears and nukes that kobold. At this point, even people who played darker characters begin to get annoyed over this. Undeterred, the GM brings back another creature, a "kobold toddler" (complete with a diaper and teddy bear), only to have that one immediately taked out by an invisible "Waste of Flesh." "Waste of Flesh" then logs upon getting stunned by a PC. Someone posts a log on the officials. "Waste of Flesh" tries to defend his actions using the "it's just a kobold" defense and claimed that he logged to avoid PvP (which is against the rules). A GM reveals that she had a mini storyline worked up, but had to abandon it as "Waste of Flesh" just killed her protagonists. She also said that the incident forced her to seriously reconsider existing policy about whether or not to jack up NPC's DS to avoid premature deaths (one or two GM's made prior posts to this incident, saying they resisted making creature with unusual stats to promote a more realistic environment). Board moderator closes the topic down about 2 days later, due to the negative tone directed towards "Waste of Flesh." Another GM -- GM Gorlash -- comments a few days after the closing of the topic that if something like this ever happened on something he was running, he might just "fail to notice any PvP" directed at people acting like a jackass.

5. Trolls try to invade the Landing. Propbably very early 2000's, but it may have been 1999. A Massive Troll Prince tries to aid the landing for some reason. Moron launches several attacks against it, but fails to kill it due to its abnormally high TD. Annoyed with the screen scroll from repeated attacks that had no chance of landing, someone lops Moron's head off. Moron then uses some bizzare Voln ability and kills the Massive Troll Prince. Moron is raised from the dead and then makes a public appology, claiming he thought the Troll Prince was hostile.

I can name a lot of more of this lunacy. But that would be belaboring the point.

In GM's defense, they have done several things to over the years to avoid this from happening. Some GM's took Gorlash's approach -- "kill my NPC, and I'll momentarily direct my attention elsewhere while the lynch mob tears your limbs off." Many NPC's now either have a Character format, preventing them from getting searched, or NPC's with a monster base are given either crumbly items, normal items, or none at all. NPC's also are sometimes given neigh-invulnerability.

My take? Nice start. But if you want to end this, hit people where it hurts. Take their money, force them to risk losing their precious items, and then see if the smug attitude continues. My guess? It won't. The people actually trying to role play a situation like this take the time to set up an interaction to explain their action and aren't the ones using sneak attacks in the first place.

My other lessened learned? It is really easy to come up with a a lame excuse justifying ruining the experience of others. Quality roleplayers, however, either realize that not all role playing situations are for their characters and leave, or work hard to come up with a good in reason not to end an encounter with the blade of a sword or an incantation of spell that is entirely in character. That does not mean the way the character has to express it with smiles and honey words -- threats can be uttered, blood oaths made -- but it does mean that there has to be respect for players at the opposite end of a situation.

[Khariz]

Funny thing is, Perigourd does NOT belong as one of those examples. Fucker is a quality roleplayer. If he did that shit, it was either an accident, or for a reason people didn't understand. He doesn't indescriminantely lop shit off.

If you doubt me, I'll send you the complete logs of the last four or five major storylines in the game, where Perigourd was at the forefront of discovering almost everything, and never harming a hair on an NPCs shitbrained head.

[we2monkeys]

... If you doubt me, I'll send you the complete logs of the last four or five major storylines in the game, where Perigourd was at the forefront of discovering almost everything, ...

I can see where the term 'quest whore' comes from, and exactly how it can be applied and earned. Wow.

I think the sign of a mature roleplayer is being able to pick and choose which events fit your character profile, and not whore yourself out to everything with an event GM taking part in it.

Quality over quantity. To stick with the whore analogy, it's better to be a high-class call girl instead of the same skanky meth-slut slapping it out behind the chicken shack.

Poor Perigourd. Now I'll never be able to get that image out of my mind.

[StrayRogue]

You only need to do one thing to make GS better. Get rid of Tsin.

[Khariz]

I can see where the term 'quest whore' comes from, and exactly how it can be applied and earned. Wow.

I think the sign of a mature roleplayer is being able to pick and choose which events fit your character profile, and not whore yourself out to everything with an event GM taking part in it.

Quality over quantity. To stick with the whore analogy, it's better to be a high-class call girl instead of the same skanky meth-slut slapping it out behind the chicken shack.

Poor Perigourd. Now I'll never be able to get that image out of my mind.

All your post does is basically show how utterly ignorant of Perigourd and his in-game motives you are. He was the leader of largest and most competant militia in the game. He basically controlled an ARMY (three brigades) of players who are charged with defending the Landing, Solhaven, and Icemule.

With the way GMs tie almost every storyline into invasions of some sort, it would be nearly impossible for him and every other competent member of his militia to NOT be part of the storyline. For the same reason he has been at the forefront of every storyline, so have I.

I'm not a quest whore. I like killing shit in invasions. I just happen to always be there when that special NPC shows up, because I was there killing shit when it happened.

The reason I bring this up is because I was trying to point out the irony of Perigourd being lumped in with the other "important NPC killers". That's so laughable. It was his control over the situation and ability to command his militia members to STOP attacking at will, that prevent any one of us from even accidentally killing the NPCs. So not only did Perigourd not kill one, but rather he was also able to successfully commands 10-25 other people to NOT kill one as well. And those people WANTED to obey. That's pretty fucking amazing.

But that's okay, keep spouting off at the mouth like you have a clue. Not like I can stop you.

[Some Rogue]

lol

Suck his dick much?

[Khariz]

That's right. My bad. I forgot you can't defend someone on this board without "sucking their dick".

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I like Perigourd and Missoni, they both rp very consistently. I have a character whom I play as pretty annoying (he is) and they tolerate him, which is cool. Most people jump right to killing him, but I think that just shows their poor ability to think.

[Khariz]

I like Perigourd and Missoni, they both rp very consistently. I have a character whom I play as pretty annoying (he is) and they tolerate him, which is cool. Most people jump right to killing him, but I think that just shows their poor ability to think.

That's the experience I have had with them as well, though I know there are certainly people who have had other experiences. Perigourd isn't exactly "Mr. Cool" when it comes to deal with people all the time.

[Fallen]

Perigourd did kill that NPC. He apologized for it on the officials. I didn't post anything other than that he killed the NPC in the scenario listed above my post. I know he is a popular guy, and I know he is excellently roleplayed. I also know the guy involves himself in nearly every storyline that he can, regardless of its location.

I understand WHY someone would do that. We all pay an absurd amount of money to play this game, and we should get our money's worth. However, there comes a point where you start to negatively impact other people's enjoyment of the game if you show up for everything and immediately take center stage.

I don't make claims of GM favoritism. Quests involve those who are there, and who respond to the NPCs/situations presented. The guy has hours and hours to play, is extremely experienced with storylines, is capped, and has a bunch of other characters all working together with him to find things out/get things done.

In some ways, I look up to Perigourd. His character is very well built, well roleplayed, and in most circles, well respected. In other ways, I think he (and several others like him) is a detriment to the game. It is EXTREMELY intimidating to involve yourself in a storyline where/when these people show up, and odds are..unless there are two storylines going on at once, he will be there.

[CrystalTears]

He can be a fanfuckingtastic roleplayer, it doesn't make him less of a quest whore, IMO.

I don't like Perigourd or Missoni, however I realize that's just how they are roleplayed. And if they're meant to be egotistical assholes, then yeah, they do a swell job roleplaying that. That's just not the type of characters my character will associate or deal with in anyway as I don't find it enjoyable, therefore won't get involved in any quest they are involved in. Pretty much why I didn't get involved in quests prior to my hiatus because of Witcheaven.

[Some Rogue]

That's my experience too...the last time I got involved in a storyline was the Kiramon one. Being center stage in Illistim wasn't enough. No, he had to run to Vaalor every time an NPC appeared. He couldn't allow the lower level people in Vaalor to have their part of the story. He had to take over there too. I finally just gave up on it with my low level characters in Vaalor and my higher level guy in TI.

[Khariz]

Perigourd did kill that NPC. He apologized for it on the officials. I didn't post anything other than that he killed the NPC in the scenario listed above my post. I know he is a popular guy, and I know he is excellently roleplayed. I also know the guy involves himself in nearly every storyline that he can, regardless of its location.

I understand WHY someone would do that. We all pay an absurd amount of money to play this game, and we should get our money's worth. However, there comes a point where you start to negatively impact other people's enjoyment of the game if you show up for everything and immediately take center stage.

I don't make claims of GM favoritism. Quests involve those who are there, and who respond to the NPCs/situations presented. The guy has hours and hours to play, is extremely experienced with storylines, is capped, and has a bunch of other characters all working together with him to find things out/get things done.

In some ways, I look up to Perigourd. His character is very well built, well roleplayed, and in most circles, well respected. In other ways, I think he (and several others like him) is a detriment to the game. It is EXTREMELY intimidating to involve yourself in a storyline where/when these people show up, and odds are..unless there are two storylines going on at once, he will be there.

Hold up though, as a good roleplayer yourself, make sure you keep Players and Characters straight. You are good at that.

The dude who PLAYS Perigourd is certainly a quest whore. The Character though has a legitimate RP reason to be at MOST of the in-game quests that he's at (I say most because of the Vaalor type things mentioned above). Again, that's not HIS fault, it's the GMs fault for not being creative enough to NOT start storylines during invasions where Perigourd happens to be defending towns.

This shows, perhaps, why GMs have been coming up with alternate ways to do things, such as this Onarian storyline, or whatnot. My point remains though, that Perigourd will defend the Tri-City area, or any other area he happens to be in from invading forces. See as how he doesn't really die all that often in invasions, even when waves of 50 100+ critters are swarming the room at a time (again, I have logs), he's still ALIVE when the NPC shows up to deliver the storyline.

Oh, and just to be clear, I wasn't saying that he didn't kill THAT NPC. I was saying that he doesn't deserved to be lumped in with "dumb fuck NPC killers".

But anyway, yeah, the Player is a quest whore, the Character has legit reasons. Some of you may see that as semantics, and I would argue that you are not a roleplayer if you do. If you want to go down the semantic road though, what else is there to do for a 15+ mil post cap warrior to do.

There's nothing "left" in Gemstone for Perigourd except the unusual and extraordinary, either from a player OR character sense.

[CrystalTears]

So if he has to defend the tri-city area, what's his excuse for leaving those areas behind "unPerigourdguarded" in order to attend to quests in Ta'Illistim or Ta'Vaalor?

Regardless, as a player you can make up ANY validation of why your character has to and should be doing something. The player controls the character. To say that the character HAS to be involved is, actually, a rationalization on the part of the player in order to be involved in everything. Generally speaking, every character is not applicable for every quest.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

holy shit, he has 15m xp? I so wish Tayvin had that much experience. I'd be superman.

[Khariz]

So if he has to defend the tri-city area, what's his excuse for leaving those areas behind "unPerigourdguarded" in order to attend to quests in Ta'Illistim or Ta'Vaalor?

Regardless, as a player you can make up ANY validation of why your character has to and should be doing something. The player controls the character. To say that the character HAS to be involved is, actually, a rationalization on the part of the player in order to be involved in everything. Generally speaking, every character is not applicable for every quest.

First of all, I edited my post to account for not approving of the Vaalor stuff from a Character perspective, however, I know that he was hunting in OTF at the time with Missoni, and therefore he may have been already there. Why would he not defend Illistim if he was there? That's not like him. Also, if he gets involved in a storyline in the first place you can expect him to finish it.

As to your second point, I don't totally agree. That's perhaps mostly true for most people. Then again, not everyone in the game is (or in Perigourd's case WAS) a General in a standing militia that is the recognized Banner of Sir Valicar, a Knight Banneret of the Barony of the Turamzzyrian Empire. Perigourd was the freaking leader of a group, the founder of which personally swore an oath to the Baron. That's a pretty freaking legitimate RP reason that Perigourd's player would have a hard time arbitrary being like "PSYCH, I was just kidding about being the leader of that group." Not everyone is roleplaying inside a box by themselves where it would have little to no impact on the game if they changed they way they do things.

What does all that mean? It means he has (had) a much better reason than alot of people to be legitimately defending the Baron's lands at all costs, and at all times. Perhaps many of you don't even know, understand, or care about this. Now you do.

[TheEschaton]

Well, logical inconsistency - Icemule is not part of the human empire, nor is Ta'I, or Ta'V. Being the leader of a human army would make it seem like he's trying to take over sovereign territories.

[Khariz]

Well, logical inconsistency - Icemule is not part of the human empire, nor is Ta'I, or Ta'V. Being the leader of a human army would make it seem like he's trying to take over sovereign territories.

Le sigh. Again...I'm not saying that's a reason to defend Icemule or those other cities. I'm trying to show you folks that just because you "don't know the whole story" doesn't mean you are correct about him not having a good fucking reason.

As far as Icemule goes, the Northern Fury, which is the group I'm refering to in this thread was set up as ICEMULE'S Militia. The founding General was LATER Knighted by the Baron of the T Empire. I don't have to sit here and legitimize every single fucking sentence I type, but I *can*.

My POINT is that there are people out there with a MORE legitimate, actual-in-game-storyline-and-established-group reasons to be invovled in things that they are invovled with. That's reasons with an S on it. Plural. I gave ONE in my first post, and ONE more in this one. There are more.

[TheEschaton]

I am a priest of Charl. There's water in Solhaven, in fact, there's a "Charl's Quay" there where I do a yearly sabbatical. However, I don't think there's reason to involve myself in quests in Solhaven to protect Charl's interests.

I jusst happen to think his reasons for showing up all over the world are bullshit, and stem from a psychological need to be the center of attention.

[CrystalTears]

And like I said, you can find any reason to validate why you need to be somewhere. It still doesn't mean that as a character he has to be.

As a player, he's selfish and wants to be involved in everything and will say and do what he has to in order to be involved. That's fine and that's his right as a paying customer. Just understand that people will scorn him for it for not giving other people chances is all.

[Khariz]

I am a priest of Charl. There's water in Solhaven, in fact, there's a "Charl's Quay" there where I do a yearly sabbatical. However, I don't think there's reason to involve myself in quests in Solhaven to protect Charl's interests.

I jusst happen to think his reasons for showing up all over the world are bullshit, and stem from a psychological need to be the center of attention.


And I just happen to think that your opinion is retarded and not one that someone can even legitimately have.

He didn't just snap his fingers and pretend to be the things that he is. He became them through the people he knows and the networks that he established in the game over the long course of time.

Are you saying that the people in the game who have special titles, special roles to play in organizations, many of which were bestowed upon them by GMs for their ability to roleplay and MEAN something to this game, are just "bullshit" and don't deserve any sort of prominence in the game? That's laughable.

You can't take away the things that people have done and accomplished. I know that's hard for someone so liberal minded to understand. His reason WOULD be bullshit if he just showed up one day after power hunting from level 1 to 100 and was like "I R teh leet, I will capture every story line and slaughter every invasion." This is kinda like what Tsin does when he shows up to kill shit in invasions. He'll transport over from Teras, slaughter everything, and transport back. *That* is the kind of shit that's silly and has no real RP to back it up.

A dude that leads an established, supported, endorsed, and condoned, real-in-game-militia though? That's bullshit? Please. Your, sir, are an idiot.

[Khariz]

And like I said, you can find any reason to validate why you need to be somewhere. It still doesn't mean that as a character he has to be.

As a player, he's selfish and wants to be involved in everything and will say and do what he has to in order to be involved. That's fine and that's his right as a paying customer. Just understand that people will scorn him for it for not giving other people chances is all.

No, you still obviously don't get it either. This guy isn't fucking Miracle Grow. He didnt' sprout up over night to take away the fun of others. He's a real, established dude.

He isn't "making up a reason to validate his RP". He's participating in a game and earning the positions and respect of other players, and using that position and respect to further play the game in comport with what he has accomplished. That's the pinnacle of RP if you ask me. Not even 1/4 of us will ever accomplish half of what dudes like him have in this damn game.

[CrystalTears]

We'll just agree to disagree. You see him as some sort of roleplaying god and I see him as a quest whore, nothing more.

I won't get into the pinnacles of roleplaying since we're going to disagree on what that is anyway.

[Khariz]

We'll just agree to disagree. You see him as some sort of roleplaying god and I see him as a quest whore, nothing more.

I won't get into the pinnacles of roleplaying since we're going to disagree on what that is anyway.

People always "agree to disagree" when they can't be anything but wrong.

You can't ignore what I just said. He isn't making anything up. He ACTUALLY accomplished these things. That's not that case with most players in the game. There's nothing to argue about.

[CrystalTears]

Of course not because you insist on being right, when there really is no right or wrong as far as he is concerned, it's a matter of opinion. You feel he's entitled to be there, and I (and others) feel that he's overdoing it.

IN MY OPINION, he is making up validations to be there. Yes he's established. Yes he's well known. No he doesn't need to be IN EVERY QUEST IN EVERY TOWN.

If you want to justify that, that's fine, but don't tell me that I'm not allowed to get annoyed by players that have their characters involved in every quest.

[Celephais]

Yeah, but in order to accomplish said things you would have to be a quest whore... it's a circular arguement.

I don't think it's invalid for him to participate, but I also still think he's a quest whore (a deserved quest whore).

[Khariz]

Of course not because you insist on being right, when there really is no right or wrong as far as he is concerned, it's a matter of opinion. You feel he's entitled to be there, and I (and others) feel that he's overdoing it.

IN MY OPINION, he is making up validations to be there. Yes he's established. Yes he's well known. No he doesn't need to be IN EVERY QUEST IN EVERY TOWN.

If you want to justify that, that's fine, but don't tell me that I'm not allowed to get annoyed by players that have their characters involved in every quest.

Hold up. I'm not saying you aren't allowed to be annoyed. I'm just saying that you can't "make up" the fact that he's "making stuff up". He's not.

You can have the opinon that he doesn't NEED to be at every event, and that's fine. I'm just saying that the events he chooses to go to, particularly those in Icemule, Landing, and Solhaven, have established, real, non-made-up RP backup for why he is there. All independant of him having to "make stuff up".

As long as you can admit that such is the case for certain people (he's certainly not alone in that regard), I can admit that he attends WAY MORE than his "fair share", so to speak. That's certainly a legitimate opinion. I disagree, but THERE is where we can agree to disagree. On a point that actually has two sides.

[Khariz]

Yeah, but in order to accomplish said things you would have to be a quest whore... it's a circular arguement.

I don't think it's invalid for him to participate, but I also still think he's a quest whore (a deserved quest whore).

Exactly. No dispute here. As long as we differentiate players from characters. The player is certainly a quest whore, whereas it makes sense that the character is always there.

That's been my point all along, but people like to drag shit out, and I love beating a dead or dying horse. It's great fun to me.

[CrystalTears]

When the NPCs in Vaalor or Illistim are telling Perigourd that he has no business there for being a part of the human militia and yet the player insists on having his character be a part of the quest anyway and not stepping back, then yes, in my opinion, he as a player is giving rationalizations for his character to remain there strictly for being part of any quest.

[Khariz]

When the NPCs in Vaalor or Illistim are telling him that he has no business there for being a part of the human militia and yet he insists on being there rather than stepping back, then yes, he's finding reasons to remain there strictly for being part of any quest.

Right. That's why I said Icemule, Landing, and Solhaven. I'll agree with you there. That's all you are gonna get from me though.

Also, occassionaly the Vaalor militia would explicitly ask the Northern Fury for assistance. That's not Perigourd's fault, nor him making stuff up!

Just sayin'!

[Fallen]

Perigourd is not a member of the Northern Fury. His character told mine that.

My argument against his activities is that people have posted on numerous occasions that when the "usual crowd" shows up to their storyline, they stop participating. That is horrible to hear if you actually care about this game. Your presence detracts from other people's enjoyment of the game. I know the allure of 740'ing to any and all invasions that I hear about IG our out and killing stuff..not even getting involved in the storyline. Invasions are an absolute blast for me.... But I don't. Why? Because that drives some people crazy.

I understand it is in his, and in other people's roleplay to defend a certain area. He has every right to get involved in storylines concerning the safety of such towns as Wehnimer's Landing, Solhaven, and Icemule. I also understand that global storylines always give you an "in" to get involved, no matter what town you live in. The Kiramon potion sickness, the Grimswarm mechanic, etc. Still, you as a PLAYER must make the decision to take responsibility for your character, and preserve the enjoyment of the game for others in say, Ta'Vaalor, and not rush off there just because your character has an "in".

Like CT (I think) said, you can have IC justifications for nearly anything IG. That doesn't mean you should act on every single one of them. I started a thread on this issue some time back, about when you believe a character SHOULD get involved in a quest. What criteria must be met before you will go out of your way to involve yourself in an event that is happening. If you find a way to have your character justified in EVERY single storyline, you are, in fact, a quest whore.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

LOL, people complain for not having a chance at the Onar event (not enough participation for everyone) and people complain because too many participate in another.

Just another shining example of you cannot satisfy everyone, all the time.

[Fallen]

The Onarian thing rubbed people the wrong way because it was intentionally hidden from 99% of the game, yet it took up GM's time like a major quest. I never wanted to be involved in that storyline, but I do like to know when one is going on. In my opinion, I do not believe Onarians were given enough chance to join in. There should have been posts in the Onar folder drawing attention to the fact that something was happening in Solhaven that concerned the Lesser Spirit.

In light of this thread, though, I suppose sometimes you NEED to hide storylines from people...IG and Out. That's sad.

[Khariz]

Perigourd is not a member of the Northern Fury. His character told mine that.

My argument against his activities is that people have posted on numerous occasions that when the "usual crowd" shows up to their storyline, they stop participating. That is horrible to hear if you actually care about this game. Your presence detracts from other people's enjoyment of the game. I know the allure of 740'ing to any and all invasions that I hear about IG our out and killing stuff..not even getting involved in the storyline. Invasions are an absolute blast for me.... But I don't. Why? Because that drives some people crazy.

I understand it is in his, and in other people's roleplay to defend a certain area. He has every right to get involved in storylines concerning the safety of such towns as Wehnimer's Landing, Solhaven, and Icemule. I also understand that global storylines always give you an "in" to get involved, no matter what town you live in. The Kiramon potion sickness, the Grimswarm mechanic, etc. Still, you as a PLAYER must make the decision to take responsibility for your character, and preserve the enjoyment of the game for others in say, Ta'Vaalor, and not rush off there just because your character has an "in".

Like CT (I think) said, you can have IC justifications for nearly anything IG. That doesn't mean you should act on every single one of them. I started a thread on this issue some time back, about when you believe a character SHOULD get involved in a quest. What criteria must be met before you will go out of your way to involve yourself in an event that is happening. If you find a way to have your character justified in EVERY single storyline, you are, in fact, a quest whore.

Perigourd is not *currently* in the Northern Fury. This hasn't been the case for all that long.

Events that he has RECENTLY been involved with since LEAVING the Northern Fury, he has certainly, of his own volition chosen to attend (being a couple with the current commanding Field General of the Fury doesn't hurt though).

Before he quit the Fury though, what the hell was he supposed to do? Sit out the events under the Fury's charge so that 50 players would have no general commanding then during an invasion? That seems like an unreasonable request. If he was online, he led us.

Nowadays, even though he is NOT a Fury member, most of us still think of his as our General, and ask or expect him to lead battles. Amazingly he DECLINES to do so, as he is not a member of our organization. His wife, or whatever, Missioni, though IS the General, and does lead us. Usually with him attached at her hip (which he is attached to 24/7 whether or not an invasion or storyline is going on).

So again, only recently has he been making purely volitional, potentially selfish decisions to participate in storylines. I've already admitted that he doesn't "need" to be at all these things, but rather that he has legitimate RP reasons to be so, ones that are better than one most people would have to "make up" to do so.

For example, you'd have a hard time legitimizing why your role in the Obsidian Tower justifies you in 704ing to every invasion and participating, as you put it. If the Obsidian Tower just happened to be a militia that was charged with protecting three cities though, if would not be one bit strange for you to 740 back to the landing for an invasion. People would expect that of you, and seek your leadership.

[Fallen]

For example, you'd have a hard time legitimizing why your role in the Obsidian Tower justifies you in 704ing to every invasion and participating, as you put it. If the Obsidian Tower just happened to be a militia that was charged with protecting three cities though, if would not be one bit strange for you to 740 back to the landing for an invasion. People would expect that of you, and seek your leadership. >>

But I don't, because I as a player realize that is detrimental to the game to bogart every invasion/storyline. Inroad or not, Khariz, the NF often travels far far away from its home base. Are they a global militia, or are they Icemule Trace's Militia?

[Khariz]

For example, you'd have a hard time legitimizing why your role in the Obsidian Tower justifies you in 704ing to every invasion and participating, as you put it. If the Obsidian Tower just happened to be a militia that was charged with protecting three cities though, if would not be one bit strange for you to 740 back to the landing for an invasion. People would expect that of you, and seek your leadership. >>

But I don't, because I as a player realize that is detrimental to the game to bogart every invasion/storyline. Inroad or not, Khariz, the NF often travels far far away from its home base. Are they a global militia, or are they Icemule Trace's Militia?

You keep picking isolated incidents to try to legitimize your point.

The Northen Fury is the Standing Militia of Icemule Trace. It is *also* the Banner of Sir Valicar who has sworn an oath to the Baron of the T Empire to protect his lands. We protect Solhaven and the Landing whenever we can, and if there is a conflict of interest, we protect Icemule at all costs.

There are other Militias worldwide though. When those Golden Hawks or whatever the hell they are called in Vaalor ask for our assistance with battle, we respond and mobilize to Vaalor. When then Drakes Vanguard or the Silver Gryphons specifically as for our assistance with something that is other than general defense of the Landing, we respond.

Out of anyone on this board, I would expect that you, Fallen/Evarin, would understand roleplaying in a way that comports with who you are in the game. I think you DO understand that, which is why Evarin does NOT participate in half the things that YOU (the Player) want to.

Hell, I have the opposite problem. I'm level 97, trying to grind my way to cap. As a player, I want everyone to leave me the hell alone and grind to 100. With these Grimswarm and Minotaurs though, I get Called to Arms on almost a nightly basis, and have to spend 100k to 300k to orb back from Teras isle to participate in Storylines that I personally don't give a shit about. I *hate* having to go back to the Landing (or Solhaven or Icemule) every freaking day to kill another camp full of Grimswarm. But my character, who is part of this standing militia, out of a sense of DUTY to the organization, does so whenever it's physically possible (meaning the port isn't one hour and 20 mins away and he woldn't make it in time anyway). *I* don't want to, he does. If I did what *I* want to do all the time in the game, there would be no RP.

Sure, Perigourd COULD have not led his army into battle. Perigourd COULD not stand by his wife's side (who is the General of the militia), but he doesn't have to, and it would make no Roleplaying sense for him to do so.

What I'm trying to get you to understand is that you are thinking backwards. You are thinking "Perigourd chooses to do A, so he is legitimizing it by making up B". When it actually it's more like "B situation exists, therefore Perigourd acts A."

[Fallen]

I by no means think that Perigourd is the cause of all problems relating to the same people showing up at every event. I understand people wish to stay true to their roleplay. I also understand that people will purposefully distance themselves from a storyline when the usual suspects show up...for whatever the reason. That bunch of usual suspects extends beyond Perigourd, but almost always includes him.

On some fronts, "Staying true to your character's roleplay no matter what", will have you violating policy. On other fronts, it just pisses people off and ruins people's enjoyment of the game. I think this is more a case of the latter than the former. People have complete control over what their characters do. To say the roleplay forces you to do something that compromises other people's good time is not acceptable to me. I think Perigourd, and the Northern Fury/Drake's Vanguard in general, need to take a look at how their presence impacts other people's enjoyment of the game.

[Khariz]

I by no means think that Perigourd is the cause of all problems relating to the same people showing up at every event. I understand people wish to stay true to their roleplay. I also understand that people will purposefully distance themselves from a storyline when the usual suspects show up...for whatever the reason. That bunch of usual suspects extends beyond Perigourd, but almost always includes him.

On some fronts, "Staying true to your character's roleplay no matter what", will have you violating policy. On other fronts, it just pisses people off and ruins people's enjoyment of the game. I think this is more a case of the latter than the former. People have complete control over what their characters do. To say the roleplay forces you to do something that compromises other people's good time is not acceptable to me. I think Perigourd, and the Northern Fury/Drake's Vanguard in general, need to take a look at how their presence impacts other people's enjoyment of the game.

Well, I'll just be blunt about my opinion on that matter. I don't give two shits if my presence bothers other people in the game. Ever. Am I an asshole? Yeah.

But I still pin more of the blame on the GMs rather than myself (or Perigourd). That was one of my sub-points through all this. When GMs decide to deliver nearly every storyline via the "massive invasions, crescendoing with level 100+ critters, and then an NPC shows up" style delivery system, there's only a handfull of people left alive or logged in by then end of it each time. Perigourd and I are two of those people.

I understand that this "in-crowd" that you keep talking about frustates people. That's why, as a player, I joined it, instead of trying to fight it for attention. There's still plenty of people that steal the spotlight from them though. People just have to get in there, RP well, stay alive (that's the hard part, especially if you aren't GROUPED with the "in-crowd" at the time, etc.

I mean, hell, look how Sepher "handled" us the other day. Very amusing.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I personally love fighting in invasions and will join every single one I can. I don't usually travel to another city though, unless it's a siege and I can join the forces defending it.

It's something out of the ordinary -- most the people accused of quest hounding are CAPPED. Anything unusual beyond the everyday grind is something they should be allowed to participate in. If it were not for the grimswarm, I wouldn't be playing other than to liquidate my stuff.

[Fallen]

I too think we're done. We disagree on a fundamental level. I roleplay an asshole in some respects. However, I try to keep my assholery limited to IC matters. When I feel my character is ruining other PEOPLE's enjoyment of the game, I will usually attempt to hug that shit out OOG (IMs, E-mail, Boards), or withdraw from the situation. I understand why people would choose not to do this, I simply disagree that it is a smart thing to do with such a small population sustaining the game.

No hard feelings, Khariz. I think this was a good discussion. I've enjoyed my interactions with Perigourd/Missoni, and hope to continue to do so with them and the NF in the future. As I said, I just disagree with how they choose to do business.

[Khariz]

I too think we're done. We disagree on a fundamental level. I roleplay an asshole in some respects. However, I try to keep my assholery limited to IC matters. When I feel my character is ruining other PEOPLE's enjoyment of the game, I will usually attempt to hug that shit out OOG (IMs, E-mail, Boards), or withdraw from the situation. I understand why people would choose not to do this, I simply disagree that it is a smart thing to do with such a small population sustaining the game.

No hard feelings, Khariz. I think this was a good discussion. I've enjoyed my interactions with Perigourd/Missoni, and hope to continue to do so with them and the NF in the future. As I said, I just disagree with how they choose to do business.

Well, unlike with CT earlier, I actually understand what we are disagreeing about, so I'm not about to tell you that you can't disgree with me, hehe.

As far as I'm concerned, my character is never concerned about the feelings of other players as long as he is comporting with his RP. I respect you for doing things otherwise. I especially respected you for that back in the day when I played Beaumian. We would have long imploded each other had you not.

[Fallen]

I personally love fighting in invasions and will join every single one I can. I don't usually travel to another city though, unless it's a siege and I can join the forces defending it.

It's something out of the ordinary -- most the people accused of quest hounding are CAPPED. Anything unusual beyond the everyday grind is something they should be allowed to participate in. If it were not for the grimswarm, I wouldn't be playing other than to liquidate my stuff.


I personally believe there is a difference between showing up for invasions and fighting, and taking an active role in the storyline behind the invasion (If there is one). This is why I considered simply showing up for invasions and not involving myself in the storyline.

However, doing this sometimes REALLY fucks things up for the GMs. Case in point, there was an invasion in River's Rest. However, since a bunch of near/capped people showed up (Not naming names as I don't know exactly who), the GM running it (Scribes) admitted to having to up the level of the monsters invading, and all the regulars there got slaughtered for the most part. Is that fair for those that live there full time? Was that good for the storyline/quest?

[CrystalTears]

Well, unlike with CT earlier, I actually understand what we are disagreeing about, so I'm not about to tell you that you can't disgree with me, hehe.
Fallen understood what I was arguing about since I agree with him, he was just able to explain it better to you, that's all.

[Khariz]

However, doing this sometimes REALLY fucks things up for the GMs. Case in point, there was an invasion in River's Rest. However, since a bunch of near/capped people showed up (Not naming names as I don't know exactly who), the GM running it (Scribes) admitted to having to up the level of the monsters invading, and all the regulars there got slaughtered for the most part. Is that fair for those that live there full time? Was that good for the storyline/quest?

Yeah, that's actually pretty shitty. That's the kind of thing that we would let lie though, unless specifically asked for help. I know I wouldn't attend such an event, and if Called to Arms, I would ask for a specific reason why. I don't need a reason in those three cities though. I understand the permanent reason.

[Khariz]

Fallen understood what I was arguing about since I agree with him, he was just able to explain it better to you, that's all.

Right. After I understood that you were talking about your personal disdain with the fact that he mucks in everyone's sandbox, and not you just arbitrarily claiming that he was making shit up, I was cool with what you meant.

We are all on the same page now.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

If the GM doesn't plan for capped players coming in and wrecking the invaders, they aren't planning completely. I've been in invasions (capped) where I didn't cast a spell offensively, I just helped others with strength or a drag or an ewave here and there. Sometimes you just have to recognize they can't hurt you and let the younger ones play.

I'm not sure, but I would expect that a full third of the player base has a near or capped player in their stable. If you want to destroy town, you will always have to include some sort of manuever attack, mass ewave, mass sympathy, something... that destroys CAPPED players. If you don't, expect that town will not be overrun.

[Fallen]

See, that's the problem with invasions as others in this thread have already stated. Unless you plan for, and eventually release creatures that can handle capped players, the invasion will be easily crushed. YET, you see people complaining that they cannot survive invasions unless they are super high level. More has to be done to ensure that people from 20-60 are able to get something out of invasions..and no, I dont count helping the dead and typing fire arrow in ballista towers.

Coming up with solutions to that problem, however, is tough. You could EASILY do it by installing things like that stupid bench mechanic where the game forces you in an almost OOC way to "follow the rules and common courtesy". Coming up with IC mechanics and means of better handling invasions isn't so easy, or it would have long since been done by now.

[Khariz]

See, that's the problem with invasions right there. Unless you plan for, and eventually release creatures that can handle capped players, the invasion will be easily crushed.

YET, you see people complaining that they cannot survive invasions unless they are super high level. More has to be done to ensure that people from 20-60 are able to get something out of invasions (and no, I dont count helping the dead and typing fire arrow in ballista towers).

Coming up with solutions to that problem, however, is tough. You could EASILY do it by installing things like that stupid bench mechanic where the game forces you in an almost OOC way to "follow the rules and common courtesy". Coming up with IC mechanics and means of better handling invasions isn't so easy, or it would have long since been done by now.

Yeah, I've put thought into this too, but all the solutions I've come up with are blatantly OOC.

Like when the invasion mechanics are turned on, characters physically CANNOT kill things they can't learn from. I type attack grimswarm, and the game returnes "Sorry, that creature is too low level for you to attack".

I personally think that would be horrible, but I can't think of any other way that you could really prevent invasion inflation from occuring. Instanced invasions? hehe.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I've always liked the waves that are usually done. Low level, mid level, high level, then crushing onslaught of psycho crazies. Most invasions don't last long enough, for my tastes. I like them long and drawn out, with regular thrusts at town (or wherever) where the field can set up triage points, etc.

Also cool is when those triage points get overrun. I find when I'm outside the north gate defending town, it's kind of sad that I can take one step through the gates or into waysides inn and be protected. Not too realistic, but it's what we have to play with.

[Fallen]

What's worse, creatures you are unable to learn from can most assuredly kill you. Letting them pile up is a death sentence.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'd seriously like to see the landing get overrun again and put under martial law. Huge critters roaming the streets, shops and banks closed. There are alternatives nearby, and the Landing is supposedly not a newb drop off now. I'd like to see it that way for a freaking month!

[Khariz]

I'd seriously like to see the landing get overrun again and put under martial law. Huge critters roaming the streets, shops and banks closed. There are alternatives nearby, and the Landing is supposedly not a newb drop off now. I'd like to see it that way for a freaking month!

I'm totally game for that as well.

[TheEschaton]

And have an underground resistance in the sewers!

[Some Rogue]

And have an underground resistance in the sewers!

There's a joke about sewers and smelly Frenchmen here somewhere....

[CrystalTears]

There's a joke about sewers and smelly Frenchmen here somewhere....
And a stolen loaf of bread...

[Dwarven Empath]

There are a few areas in Gemstone that are aged based.

Just one example is the tower in Ta'illistim. You need to be a certain age/level to hunt in that area.

Now, I wonder why GM Scribes couldn't make River's Rest an aged based area for that invasion? Say nobody over 45 levels could enter that area.

Then the capped folks can sit in an area and wait for the deaders to be fogged. Then we all could help by healing, raising and spelling up!

Or would any over 45 levels even show up?

I don't know, just an idea.


Medi...

[Fallen]

Level based restrictions are certainly one way to go. Having portals you have to go through, one for lesser leveled character, and one for older ones. As was mentioned, this was done on the Wavedancer. Two Krolvin ships attacked the boat. One would only allow lesser trained characters to board it and fight, the other was for the near/capped characters.

However..Is that really what you want? Some mechanic telling your character that it would be against his morals to go after weaker creatures while there was stronger ones to be killed? I HATE system that force feelings/decisions upon my character that are based upon his moral judgement.

I think they could work it so that your "Lifeforce is too powerful to pass through this portal!" or something, because some kobold Shaman cast a spell to keep people too strong from attacking them. It is all in the implimentation. However, the tools have to be readily available for GMs to use before these system can be in place. Sometimes...A GM just wants to dump creatures on an area. They dont want to spend weeks coding mechanics to do it, too.

[Celephais]

They should make a type of creature that has acidic blood or something, kind of like Alien, and any "overkill" damage gets redirected back at the attacker, maybe not even that obtuse (because several like level attacks can cause way too much damage, or some high level could just use very weak attacks).

Something like if you're too high level and you kill it it "splatters" (regardless of overkill) and you dodge it the first time around and think to yourself that "it was luck you survived that one, not sure if you'd be able to handle it again", as a warning. The higher levels would either have to figure out that they need to stay out of it, or get pasted by the splatter.

[Fallen]

Pretty clever, Celephais.

[LMingrone]

Bring back GM PCs like Spike and Stump...yeah Stump was a GM, but he hung around quite a bit. When GS first hit AOL I remember being a nub and running into Spike in the Catacombs. Obviously when someone new sees a giant war rat they attack them. Well he talked me out of it and had me join his group during the ensuing invasion. To a 16-17 year old that was fucking cool.

Same thing with Stump. His cigars used to prized possesions, and having him take a new player a give him unique cigars ( I think they were the only cigars that existed at the time) and a humidor rocked my face off. GMs need to be more interactive. PAY THE GMS Simutronics!

Basically they need to concentrate on giving new or relatively new players a unique RP experience. New players have no clue what a "quest" or festival is now.

Oh, and bring back the Jugg.

[Dropped_In]

1. Advertising
2. Voraviel
3. Pictures

[Celephais]

Great suggestions LM, one thing I was thinking about was along the same lines (except I didn't have a Spike experience to back it up):

(obviously would have to pay them for this)
Have a GM a day pick a random person, monitor them for a little bit, see if they are interested/attentive enough, and then do a simple one person/group quest with them, either have a fake PC come into the area and chat w/ them or cause some minor event local to their hunting ground. Kind of like a little more personal/in depth AG task.

I really liked the idea of a profile page that only staff could see (optionally turned on for players) that could let GMs customize an RP event for them.

That's the power a text mud has over graphical, you can really create a personalized experience... GS hasn't been doing that lately.

[CrystalTears]

Great suggestions LM, one thing I was thinking about was along the same lines (except I didn't have a Spike experience to back it up):

(obviously would have to pay them for this)
Have a GM a day pick a random person, monitor them for a little bit, see if they are interested/attentive enough, and then do a simple one person/group quest with them, either have a fake PC come into the area and chat w/ them or cause some minor event local to their hunting ground. Kind of like a little more personal/in depth AG task.

I really liked the idea of a profile page that only staff could see (optionally turned on for players) that could let GMs customize an RP event for them.

That's the power a text mud has over graphical, you can really create a personalized experience... GS hasn't been doing that lately.
Sure they do. It's called signing up for platinum.

It's partly why I'm opposed to them continuing that system because people who don't want to pay that much for a text game yet still want to have a fun experience get screwed.

They need to pay GMs and hire more to be STRICTLY roleplaying GMs who create NPCs to interact with, or watch for roleplaying opportunities or whatnot. It shouldn't be a passerby thing and it needs to be done way more often.

[Celephais]

Platinum was such a bad idea... $15/$40 a month should more than cover any staffing needs to provide an appropriate RP enviroment, they certainly shouldn't be having the hardware/development/distribution requirements of a full fledged graphical MMO

[Fallen]

Anyone remember when plat was like...80 dollars a month, or sommat?

[LMingrone]

Funny thing is how they could pull of all the unique experiences with 2000-3000 people on at a time, but can't seem to manage it with 300-700.

Less focus on balencing and nerfing and more focusing on player experience.

And advertise you morAns!

I'm more and more accepting of the fact that the money makers could care less as long as they are scooping up their monthly profit.

HJ is a joke.

[CrystalTears]

Anyone remember when plat was like...80 dollars a month, or sommat?
When it first started, that's how much it was, and that's how much I paid. I was single and bored. After about 3 months of that, I quit.

The fun of everyone being around the same level, helping each other out, starting the town new from the ground up was worth experiencing.

After that, it completely frustrated me that the experiences and interactions I was seeing was what prime should have had all along. I didn't understand why we had to pay MORE for what the game should have STANDARD.

I'll never ever pay that much for this game again.

[Celephais]

I'm sure this has been attempted before (infact I think I can recall someone doing it on the PC), but what if we got a large enough group together and all started new characters...

Agree on NO outside help, highlight all the members of the group and pretty much start fresh... no buying from people outside the group, no selling to people outside the group (IE fresh economy), enforcement would be a problem (short of using an outside program to enforce it). Limit interaction outside of the group (obviously impossible to eliminate)

This is extreme of course, but a middle ground would be a fun way to acheive this.

[Warriorbird]

I've done that in non GS games. It can be fun.

[Dwarven Empath]

"Sometimes...A GM just wants to dump creatures on an area. They dont want to spend weeks coding mechanics to do it, too."

Well once it is coded, then they can store it. Then just take it out of storage when needed in the future.

[Warriorbird]

And, y'know? It's okay if GMs just dump creatures on an area. They should do more of it. They just tend to do it really badly.

[Celephais]

And, y'know? It's okay if GMs just dump creatures on an area. They should do more of it. They just tend to do it really badly.
I would rather like more sporadic occurances myself; they just do it too heavy usually. The GMs seem to either want it to be this massive thing, why can't a single small group (3-8) of raiders enter a hunting ground, and when they're dead they're dead. Seems a much better way to introduce random "cool" items instead of dropping them into the treasure hopper. (so long as the monsters go to a random area, and are appropriately leveled).

[Amaron]

I go to work and I come back to pages and pages...

First as far as the quest whore/milita thread going on:

The Golden Hawks of Ta'Vaalor NEVER asked the Northern Fury to come help in any quest or event.
As a commanding officer of the group I know that for a fact.
Maybe one of the mixed race militas did, but not the Hawks.


Also Valicar may have been knighted by the Baron, but the whole Northern Fury was never asked to come and be Solhaven or the baron's milita or protectors.

Other cities have militia and the Fury tends to walk in and step all over them.

I respect Valicar, hell my character was his lady at one time. I respect the Fury, but at no time did the Fury become the official protectors of Solhaven. If they stayed in Icemule and let other town's militia have a chance at protecting their towns more folks might be able to participate without upper level characters and massive groups taking over.


So as far as joining in the thread.

1) I would love to see events take town milita affiliation into consideration and more events take town citizenship.

2) All towns have a variety of upper level hunting. Communities keep folks together and having to move all over to hunt is a pain.

3)More small quest events like the onar one. I do not think it took as much Gm time as it seems and it was very worthwhile rp. So more of these small quests maybe other arkati based and race based. Maybe milita based.. the baron's or the elven armies run training sessions with competitions or something.

[TheWitch]

The Golden Hawks of Ta'Vaalor NEVER asked the Northern Fury to come help in any quest or event.
As a commanding officer of the group I know that for a fact.
Maybe one of the mixed race militas did, but not the Hawks.


Also Valicar may have been knighted by the Baron, but the whole Northern Fury was never asked to come and be Solhaven or the baron's milita or protectors.

Other cities have militia and the Fury tends to walk in and step all over them.

I respect Valicar, hell my character was his lady at one time. I respect the Fury, but at no time did the Fury become the official protectors of Solhaven. If they stayed in Icemule and let other town's militia have a chance at protecting their towns more folks might be able to participate without upper level characters and massive groups taking over.



I find this interesting. I know a couple members of the Fury on an OOC basis, and they also are somewhat disgusted with the way Perigourd and Missoni insert themselves into every situation happening anywhere in the realm. Not just show up and fight, but INSERT themselves.

There was an event I attended a couple years ago, as I recall it was the release of 730. And Missoni stuck her nose right in front and center on that too, despite the fact that a lot of the build up was going on in Ta'Illistim - a place I had never seen her until said event. She showed up and ... tried to take over. Happily, Querthose had his elton john self firmly entrenched in the situation, and she didn't succeed all that well. However, since then, anything she's involved in, I'm not.

It's good to hear occasionally they do get upstaged and to a certain extent I blame the GM's too, if only for the fact I have heard tales of NPC's going directly to one of these two with conversation regarding the quest.

Yea, on the one hand, you know you have a solid RP'er there.
On the other hand, would it friggen kill you to give someone else a chance to show they too are solid RP'ers?

I stay out of all of it, for similar reasons to Evarin's player, but also because all of it always involves those two Thundering Fucks(tm). Neener, Jeno.

[Khariz]

I go to work and I come back to pages and pages...

First as far as the quest whore/milita thread going on:

The Golden Hawks of Ta'Vaalor NEVER asked the Northern Fury to come help in any quest or event.
As a commanding officer of the group I know that for a fact.
Maybe one of the mixed race militas did, but not the Hawks.


Also Valicar may have been knighted by the Baron, but the whole Northern Fury was never asked to come and be Solhaven or the baron's milita or protectors.

Other cities have militia and the Fury tends to walk in and step all over them.

I respect Valicar, hell my character was his lady at one time. I respect the Fury, but at no time did the Fury become the official protectors of Solhaven. If they stayed in Icemule and let other town's militia have a chance at protecting their towns more folks might be able to participate without upper level characters and massive groups taking over.





Sigh, I thought I was done with this sidetrack.

Couple things in retort to this:

1. The Golden Hawks have stopped short of issuing an official missive formally asking us to come help, but I am 100% certain of collaboration on certain attacks, for which our help "might" be needed at a moment's notice. We have been on standby MANY times, ready to help the Golden Hawks in the event they ask. You are correct that you have never formally asked us for our help, but when we are put on alert, a good chunk of our members will head that way of their own volition and help. If you don't like, feel free to slaughter them.

2. I never claimed that the Fury was the official protectors of the Baron or Solhaven. Nothing even close. That their Fury sees it as their "problem" when the Landing or Solhaven is under attack though, is 100% true. The Landing is most certainly MORE The Drakes and The Gryphon's problem when it's under attack, and Icemule is most certainly MORE our problem, but that doesn't mean we don't help each other out.

3. Yes, okay, Jesus Fucking Christ, Missoni and Perigourd are extremely over-zealous. That's half of what makes them who they are though.

[AestheticDeath]

Sounds like a town war is upcoming! Wouldn't that be fun?

[Khariz]

Sounds like a town war is upcoming! Wouldn't that be fun?

Absolutely not. We go to GREAT LENGTHS to assure that will never happen.

Here is a missive from May 7th, 2007, as an example:


Events transpired yesterday in a city that is our charge to defend for many reasons. One of these reasons is the debt of honor the North owes to Baron Malwind whose aid (both diplomatically and militarily) helped keep our beloved Northland free of Janatlarian rule. Also, many of our own number call Solhaven home not to mention the vast population of townspeople and adventurers alike who live there and whom have long been our friends.

And now, when scandal and corruption seek to pit friends against one another, our position at first glance may be difficult to discern. However, our service does not end when political lines blur. For politics are all that has become gray and faint. The lines of loyalty, honor, and duty are clear and bold. Our service is to those who have proven themselves with honorable deeds and selfless sacrifice, and that is clearly the Baron Dunrith Malwind of Vornavis.

It is for this reason that I must call upon the solidarity of the Northern Fury in their dedication to perpetuating the Four Corners of our creed. I must call upon them to put their faith in me as they have done of old and yet follow knowing that in this hour, an honorable and courageous death may be the only reward. It is for and by all these things that I must command our membership who hold foreign military allegiances to break such bonds be they Imperial, Vaalorian, Nalfien, or otherwise until these matters are resolved. For we know not yet who our friends or foes are beyond a scant few. But we will at least know that with each other, we have stalwart allies.

That said, the time is not yet come for us to act in strength. Please conduct yourselves peacefully. Do not engage in altercations among fellow adventurers, but rather give aid in duties such as extinguising the Baron’s castle which was burning only yesterday.

~General Valicar VonWraithmaster

That's just one example of the lengths we go to in order to AVOID conflict.

[Warriorbird]

The lengths you NOW go to.

[LMingrone]

I'm sure this has been attempted before (infact I think I can recall someone doing it on the PC), but what if we got a large enough group together and all started new characters...

Agree on NO outside help, highlight all the members of the group and pretty much start fresh... no buying from people outside the group, no selling to people outside the group (IE fresh economy), enforcement would be a problem (short of using an outside program to enforce it). Limit interaction outside of the group (obviously impossible to eliminate)

This is extreme of course, but a middle ground would be a fun way to acheive this.

^That actually sounds fun. No help from other characters.

I was actually putting together docs for a Gnome PRO just to try to start an underdog movement. I gave up after one page, I don't have the time. But joining a fresh "underdog" group would probably be fun.

Getting a bunch of knowlegdable players together that can RP and not rely on Big Brothers is ideal. I'm in.

[Khariz]

The lengths you NOW go to.

No, Valicar isn't really involved any more anyway. That was the past. Dude is the founding General...wtf.

[Warriorbird]

I'm not tremendously anti NF myself. I'm impressed that it has lasted this long. I find the "Icemule militia" notion a conceit though. You really end up basically playing "cops of the world." The worst issue the Northern Fury had has been a fairly regular poster here off and on and his name isn't Valicar or Perigourd.

[Khariz]

I'm not tremendously anti NF myself. I'm impressed that it has lasted this long. I find the "Icemule militia" notion a conceit though. You really end up basically playing "cops of the world."

It's almost 9 years old. And yeah, I agree with the cops of the world thing. That's why I enjoy being a part of it. The disdain is invigorating, most of the time.

[Lysander]

Someone should make an evil war band, like an anti-Northern Fury band whose sole purpose it is to go around slaughter other Northern Fury members and innocent bystanders.

[Warriorbird]

I wish that could work. My last attempt to make a CvC group got severely busted up by PVP policy idiocy. Simu needs some serious change in the way it treats PVP.

[LMingrone]

Even better. Get a bunch of wizards up to as close to meteor swarm as they can in a free trial, pay the extra month if needed. Worldwide meteor swarm on the town centrals.

Profit?

[Khariz]

I wish that could work. My last attempt to make a CvC group got severely busted up by PVP policy idiocy. Simu needs some serious change in the way it treats PVP.

I wholeheartedly agree with this as well.

[LMingrone]

They busted people who AGREED to duel on the boulder and in the dinghy. They hate fun.

[Celephais]

I wholeheartedly agree with this as well.
Except...

Even better. Get a bunch of wizards up to as close to meteor swarm as they can in a free trial, pay the extra month if needed. Worldwide meteor swarm on the town centrals.

Profit?
... This is why they don't allow it.

A great way to retain new subscribers is to have them helplessly meteor swarmed in tc.

I'd love for it to be allowed, but there are always going to be the idiots that ruin the system for everyone else... I do think it's time Simu try again at letting PvPers do their thing, and if it stays responsible, then fine; but I can understand why they don't want it running amok (people getting griefed, too much GM time spent moderating)

[875000]

Someone should make an evil war band, like an anti-Northern Fury band whose sole purpose it is to go around slaughter other Northern Fury members and innocent bystanders.

There already is one. It goes by the name of "Sepher."

[Stretch]

Little late here, but:

1) Women can't be generals

2) Northern Fury and Ardenai Temple Knights are both jokes

3) Playershops and Psinet will go down as two of the things contributing to Gemstone's slow death

[LMingrone]

Except...

... This is why they don't allow it.

A great way to retain new subscribers is to have them helplessly meteor swarmed in tc.

I'd love for it to be allowed, but there are always going to be the idiots that ruin the system for everyone else... I do think it's time Simu try again at letting PvPers do their thing, and if it stays responsible, then fine; but I can understand why they don't want it running amok (people getting griefed, too much GM time spent moderating)

I was just kidding. Just adding to the flames.

[Crazy Bard]

I was going to cast Evil Eye /w Eye Spy in the park, but GMs intercepted me as I was talking about it to one of my friends ..I'll get around to doing it one of these days.

More people that do dumb shit like that will make GS fun. They may bitch about in IN-GAME, but they know they're laughing they're ass off.

[875000]

It's almost 9 years old. And yeah, I agree with the cops of the world thing. That's why I enjoy being a part of it. The disdain is invigorating, most of the time.

Just out of curiousity, why are the Northern Fury getting involved with the Minotaurs?

1. They have not invaded the Landing, Icemule, or Sol Haven.
2. Every NPC involved --- from Pardus right down to the minotaurs themselves -- has gone through great lengths to explain that the Minotaurs have no interest in the Landing and have turned their attention inwards and towards the Krags.
3. I am fairly certain the Minotaurs have not asked the Northern Fury to get involved.
4. Its not like there is a personal hook, either, unless someone can enlighten us.

[Khariz]

Just out of curiousity, why are the Northern Fury getting involved with the Minotaurs?

1. They have not invaded the Landing.
2. Every NPC involved --- from Pardus right down to the minotaurs themselves -- has gone through great lengths to explain that the Minotaurs have no interest in the Landing and have turned their attention inwards and twords the Krags.

To let this thread come full circle:

Because we are all a bunch of quest whores.

[Celephais]

I was just kidding. Just adding to the flames.
Not like it's not completely far fetched though (and the way the PvP rules are now, doesn't really affect that plan)

I was going to cast Evil Eye /w Eye Spy in the park, but GMs intercepted me as I was talking about it to one of my friends ..I'll get around to doing it one of these days.

More people that do dumb shit like that will make GS fun. They may bitch about in IN-GAME, but they know they're laughing they're ass off.
I'd probably laugh, but there was a time when I wouldn't have, and I'm certain there are more than enough tight pricks w/ sticks up their asses who'd make it a major hassle for GMs to have to deal with if you "impeded their fun"

[Fallen]

Remember people, a CvC Arena is being (re)coded. It will soon be possible to have GM/GS sponsored CvC.

[LMingrone]

We need troll king invasions in town again too.

ambush leg

[Warriorbird]

Remember people, a CvC Arena is being (re)coded. It will soon be possible to have GM/GS sponsored CvC.

There were multiple sets of code for this that could have been updated years ago. There's a serious degree of GM hate for PVP/CVC behind the scenes because it does indeed waste a lot of staff time... with that said, like the "War on Drugs" the fight perpetuates the problem.

[Warriorbird]

They busted people who AGREED to duel on the boulder and in the dinghy. They hate fun.

Yup!

[TheEschaton]

I think we need a 3rd society to make GS better.

...

[Warriorbird]

A certain GM ought to code more enhancive drugs. I'd return to make my warrior a drug addict. A consumptive drug addict gunslinger would be even better, but hey, aim small.

[Khariz]

I think we need a 3rd society to make GS better.

...

Yep! Too late!

[Celephais]

Yep! Too late!
Went right over your head, huh?

[Farn]

I always wanted to be a GM whose sole purpose was to play NPCs and interact with the PCs. It wouldn't even have to be big storyline-related stuff. Wouldn't it make things thoroughly more interesting to know there was a decent possibility that when you're out hunting reivers, one of them actually talks to you and asks you to come have a drink and talk things out instead of fighting? I don't know, I always thought it'd be neat. Any nonstandard, non-"kill critters, go rest" interaction is fun to me, it doesn't always have to be a big quest or storyline. It's the little things.

Sometimes I try to spice things up on my own. My friends and I have set up our own little "mini-quests" before and tried to get other PCs involved. One time it was a success - the people involved had fun. Most other times I try to do this, people realize I'm not a GM and just walk away (most of those who know I'm not a GM from the start usually don't get involved because they'd rather be out hunting and getting "exp"). Apparently getting involved in storylines/plots/etc. isn't about the roleplay and fun experience (and I don't mean "experience points") - it's about being noticed by the Powers that Be.

Granted, I haven't attempted something like this in years now. Too much disappointment during previous attempts.

[Alfster]

Went right over your head, huh?

Swing and a miss!

[Methais]

I always wanted to be a GM whose sole purpose was to play NPCs and interact with the PCs. It wouldn't even have to be big storyline-related stuff. Wouldn't it make things thoroughly more interesting to know there was a decent possibility that when you're out hunting reivers, one of them actually talks to you and asks you to come have a drink and talk things out instead of fighting? I don't know, I always thought it'd be neat. Any nonstandard, non-"kill critters, go rest" interaction is fun to me, it doesn't always have to be a big quest or storyline. It's the little things.

Sometimes I try to spice things up on my own. My friends and I have set up our own little "mini-quests" before and tried to get other PCs involved. One time it was a success - the people involved had fun. Most other times I try to do this, people realize I'm not a GM and just walk away (most of those who know I'm not a GM from the start usually don't get involved because they'd rather be out hunting and getting "exp"). Apparently getting involved in storylines/plots/etc. isn't about the roleplay and fun experience (and I don't mean "experience points") - it's about being noticed by the Powers that Be.

Granted, I haven't attempted something like this in years now. Too much disappointment during previous attempts.

It's probably more due to the fact that an event run by a GM has potential for pretty much anything, since the GM can make just about anything they want happen.

Sorta like whispering to someone in a CvC conflict asking for their permission to be attacked. It just waters things down.


A certain GM ought to code more enhancive drugs. I'd return to make my warrior a drug addict. A consumptive drug addict gunslinger would be even better, but hey, aim small.

You can always sniff those opalescent orbs on Teras, they have a nice cocaine type effect.

[StrayRogue]

2. Make levelling, the fry/unfry thing, less boring.

[Methais]

2. Make levelling, the fry/unfry thing, less boring.

I'm surprised they haven't made it more tedious. Like for every exp pulse, you have to do some retarded shit to show you're not afk, like when you do jail time and they ask you questions.

[Aphyd]

The Character though has a legitimate RP reason to be at MOST of the in-game quests that he's at (I say most because of the Vaalor type things mentioned above).

Because every character magically knows something else is going on in another town and shows up there at the perfect time.

Some people call it in-character, and justifiable...I call it using out of character knowledge to whore himself around to as many quests as possible...and having someone make up excuses for his actions on the forums.

[Warriorbird]

I always wanted to be a GM whose sole purpose was to play NPCs and interact with the PCs. It wouldn't even have to be big storyline-related stuff. Wouldn't it make things thoroughly more interesting to know there was a decent possibility that when you're out hunting reivers, one of them actually talks to you and asks you to come have a drink and talk things out instead of fighting? I don't know, I always thought it'd be neat. Any nonstandard, non-"kill critters, go rest" interaction is fun to me, it doesn't always have to be a big quest or storyline. It's the little things.

You'd have been a great one. I wish GS had a staff of 15 or so people dedicated to just that. You could pull off some brilliant stuff.


Make levelling, the fry/unfry thing, less boring.

Yep! Once I realized I'd never have any trouble hunting ever the game became pretty dull.

[Khariz]

Because every character magically knows something else is going on in another town and shows up there at the perfect time.

Some people call it in-character, and justifiable...I call it using out of character knowledge to whore himself around to as many quests as possible...and having someone make up excuses for his actions on the forums.

Don't be a dumb fuck. As a militia, we have a WORLDWIDE AMULET CHANNEL that we can communicate on. I type think on fury We have an uprising in the landing, get your asses over here, and OMG, people come!

OMFG! How fucking "magical" and OOC was that? Answer: It was neither.

[Tolwynn]

Don't be a dumb fuck. As a militia, we have a WORLDWIDE AMULET CHANNEL that we can communicate on. I type think on fury We have an uprising in the landing, get your asses over here, and OMG, people come!

OMFG! How fucking "magical" and OOC was that? Answer: It was neither.

And this amulet system has been in place since the Fury's inception?

[Khariz]

And this amulet system has been in place since the Fury's inception?

It's been in place since the inception of the current iteration of the ESP system.

[Warriorbird]

So... a year, say?

[Khariz]

So... a year, say?

Yep, and before that we utilized runners to send to Icemule and Solhaven to tell everyone on the thought net what was going on. It's really not a hard concept to understand that we are an IC organization.

[Aphyd]

Don't be a dumb fuck. As a militia, we have a WORLDWIDE AMULET CHANNEL that we can communicate on. I type think on fury We have an uprising in the landing, get your asses over here, and OMG, people come!

OMFG! How fucking "magical" and OOC was that? Answer: It was neither.


I'm going to just take the low road and repeat the question:

LoL, suck his dick much?

[Khariz]

I'm going to just take the low road and repeat the question:

LoL, suck his dick much?

Every single night and twice on sunday.

[NocturnalRob]

http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-844.png

[AnticorRifling]

1) PvP would be nice. Something setup kind of like WoW (certain areas you're flagged for PvP when you enter, other areas you have to flag yourself for PvP) That way if I was in town and flagged someone else could attack me without being arrested, attacking someone who is not flagged would = arrest.

Moving from GS to WoW looking back I have to say I would love to have seen a PvP system in place.

2) Continued incentive for capped characters would be nice but that's kind of like asking for more effort be given to plat. you're asking that a small player base be given more attention. I'd like to see 40-80 get more love. (Maybe because I never capped though).

3) Again stealing from WoW maybe some soulbound quest reward items. Hit level 20, bang out moderately difficult quest and get a 4x weapon. It doesn't have to be something huge or over powered but it would usable and appreciated by, I'm guessing here, a lot of people.

Every now and then I get the urge to fire up the GS account again but I have to remind myself one electronic crack at a time.

[Raffles]

1. a nursery town so new players can learn the ropes and maybe get to level three before mixing with the general population

2. more neat critter finds at earlier levels, not talking enhancive items just more neat bits, the odd 4x weapon and some better clothing items etc

3. from a personal point of view more merchants and 'stuff' at earlier times

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time]

That's pretty lame. The mentor system is fine, and the faerie teaches you everything you -need- to know to get rolling.

EDIT: As an aside, GET THE FUCK BACK TO RUNESCAPE, n00b. Hehe, couldn't resist.

[Raffles]

That's pretty lame. The mentor system is fine, and the faerie teaches you everything you -need- to know to get rolling.

EDIT: As an aside, GET THE FUCK BACK TO RUNESCAPE, n00b. Hehe, couldn't resist.

lol, yes the sprite guide is cool for the most part, but im thinking it might stop people coming in and shouting ooc stuff & chat room talk in front of everyone as the sprite doesn't teach that and might stop us having to act like unpaid mentors some times?