THW Giant Warrior skills?

[Ben 2.0]

Armor Use x3
Two-handed weapons 2x
Combat Maneuvers 2x
Multi Opponent Combat 1x
Physical Fitness 2x
Dodging 2x


Any thoughts where I should put any extra points?

[Ben 2.0]

What are good cman skills to train in as well.
I havent played GS since GS3.

[Bobmuhthol]

I forget what it was called. Super Fucking Fantastic Attack or something like that. Actually I think it was called Mighty Blow. Get that.

[Back]

FATALITY!!!

[Bobmuhthol]

Coup de Grace.

[Durgrimst]

Spell Aiming, helps open aiming with a 2hander

[Ben 2.0]

....

[Silvanostar]

3x armor until you hit 140,
throw in extra tps into harness power if you go col, miu, mana control, scroll reading, perception

[Asha]

I forget what it was called. Super Fucking Fantastic Attack .

LOL

[Latrinsorm]

I would let armor slack off after 80 ranks; full plate isn't all that much better than MBP.

I wouldn't bother with more than .5x MOC. Once your character gets in halfway decent armor with halfway decent redux, you can probably ease dodge off to 1.5x. I'd put the points in 2x Ambush as soon as possible. After that you might tweak PF up to 3x, THW plans are comparatively light on redux points.

Try to avoid 4xing in Bigotry.

Once you get all the warrior skills squared away you might as well pick up some magic bs.

.

For maneuvers, in general there are four good gets:
1) A knockdown maneuver. (Bull rush unless you go tackle through the guild, but tackle kind of sucks.)
2) A disabling maneuver. (Feint through guild tricks is obnoxiously easy and good.)
3) Berserk. (Highly highly recommend getting this in the guild too.)
4) Weapon bonding. (Prerequisite of weapon specialization in the appropriate weapon base.)

After that you're probably best off finding something you like, as CMANs are in general for flair more than anything else. Truehand, Parry Mastery, Mighty Blow, Staggering Blow, Coup de Grace, Combat Mobility get pretty good marks if you're going in blank.

[Baelog]

Full Plate not much better than MBP? No no, of course not! I love that chainmail crit divisor on everything but my body! Oh yes, and I just love being warded extra easy compared to Full, or even Half Plate, because we all know that Warriors resist Warding incredibly well, not to mention the overall AvD of having Full Plate as compared to Breast Plate...

As far as CMANs go, Parry Mastery is pretty much a must for anyone that doesn't use a shield. Mobility is a big must for every Warrior...Weapon Spec is needed to get to Bonding, Surge of Strength is a good one for carrying any extra boxes that might encumber you as well as for hitting things harder. And, Tackle is still a good skill...yes, it takes 7 seconds to toss Tackle...but, Tackle knocks down on a 101 roll, as opposed to Bullrush, which takes about a 125...Oh, and really...don't bother getting these CMANs

Tackle
Berserk
Feint
Disarm
Spin Attack
And the one that allows you to change your stance in intervals of 10% and then 5% (Can't think of the damn name)

You learn all of that in the guild...Climbing and Swimming will help you reach certain areas, Ambush and Perception are good for weapon aiming, First-Aid helps your skinning ability, as well as cutting down the RT of eating Herbs by 1 RT per 10 First-Aid ranks. I'd recommend Magical Item Use and Arcane Language...Trading can reduce the cost of buying stuff from shops and increase the amount you sell stuff for...about all I can think of right now

[Danical]

Full Plate not much better than MBP? No no, of course not! I love that chainmail crit divisor on everything but my body! Oh yes, and I just love being warded extra easy compared to Full, or even Half Plate, because we all know that Warriors resist Warding incredibly well, not to mention the overall AvD of having Full Plate as compared to Breast Plate...

A whole 3 more TD!

2 more crit divisor!

18 more DS via AvD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FFS. If DS and consequent crits from attacks are your problem, you are failing at being a warrior (unless we're talking about warriors in OTF which is just retarded). 3xing to get 60 more ranks is a fuck of a lot of PTPs when you're strapped for points early on in levels.


Ambush and Perception are good for weapon aiming

Not in the open. It's only CM and Ambush.


. . . as well as cutting down the RT of eating Herbs by 1 RT per 10 First-Aid ranks

False. 1 RT per 20 skill, rounded up.

[Anebriated]

Full plate is every warriors goal and no warrior should not be aiming to get it. However you dont NEED full plate through the first 60 trains or so. Ive been rocking MBP since 34 or whereever it was(trippled to get into MBP then let it even out to 2x) and now im just slowly making progress to full plate. Cant say ive ever been hit and said damn, i wish i was in full plate. Just to give you something to work with heres my training at 51.

(at level 51), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 206 106
Combat Maneuvers...................| 206 106
Polearm Weapons....................| 206 106
Brawling...........................| 212 112
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 140 40
Physical Fitness...................| 206 106
Dodging............................| 206 106
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20
Perception.........................| 160 60
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 50 10
Trading............................| 152 52
Training Points: 0 Phy 104 Mnt (80 Mnt converted to Phy)

Slightly different training but it should be easy enough to convert to THW.


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Precision precision 1
Specialization I wspec1 3
Weapon Bonding bonding 5
Combat Toughness toughness 1
Surge of Strength surge 4
Parry Mastery pmastery 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 5

>gld
You are Guild Master of the Warrior Guild.
You are current with your dues and must check in again sometime in the next 14 days.
You currently have 182 ranks out of a possible 239 for your training.

You have 18 ranks in the Disarm Weapon skill.

You have 44 ranks in the Berserk skill.

You have 44 ranks in the Warrior Tricks skill.

You are a Master of Tackle.

You have 15 ranks in the War Cries skill.

You have 4 ranks in the Batter Barriers skill.

[Warriorbird]

Therapy.

[Asha]

Not in the open. It's only CM and Ambush.


Open AIMing is helped by perception isn't it? I'm losing what small knowledge I ever had of GS I think.

[Latrinsorm]

Full Plate not much better than MBP? No no, of course not! I love that chainmail crit divisor on everything but my body! Oh yes, and I just love being warded extra easy compared to Full, or even Half Plate, because we all know that Warriors resist Warding incredibly well, not to mention the overall AvD of having Full Plate as compared to Breast Plate...Minus the higher dodge penalty, not taking into account the higher maneuver penalties, and not taking into account how redux factor shrinks the gap between crit divisors, sure, that's an entirely accurate assessment.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Open AIMing is helped by perception isn't it? I'm losing what small knowledge I ever had of GS I think.>>

That depends. Aiming as an archer uses perception no matter what (pretty sure), but ambushing as a melee class only uses perception if you hide.

[Danical]

<<Open AIMing is helped by perception isn't it? I'm losing what small knowledge I ever had of GS I think.>>

That depends. Aiming as an archer uses perception no matter what (pretty sure), but ambushing as a melee class only uses perception if you hide.

Right, I assumed he wouldn't be hiding. I'd get 30-40 ranks of ambush; it seems to be skill based and not rank based.

[Riltus]

Minus the higher dodge penalty, not taking into account the higher maneuver penalties, and not taking into account how redux factor shrinks the gap between crit divisors, sure, that's an entirely accurate assessment.

Although the percentage difference remains constant, redux factor increases the gap between plate and chain crit divisors (in plate's favor).

The general (approximate) formula is: Crit Divisor/ ((1 - (2RF/3)

E.g., with no redux

Rank 1 chain crit divisor = 8.5
Rank 1 plate crit divsior = 10.5

Difference of 2 hit points

With a .500 RF ((1- (2*.500/3) = .667

Crit Divisor/.667

Rank 1 chain crit divisor: (8.5/.667) = 12.75 unreduced raw damage
Rank 1 plate crit divisor: (10.5/.667) = 15.75 unreduced raw damage

Difference of 3 hit points

This is per crit rank.

___________

At crit rank 9 the difference between plate and chain is 18 without redux and 27 with a .500 RF... a net gain of 9 HP's in favor of plate.

Without redux

Rank 9 chain crit divisor = 80.5
Rank 9 plate crit divisor = 98.5

With .500 RF

Rank 9 chain crit divisor = 120.67 (80.5/.667)
Rank 9 plate crit divisor = 147.67 (98.5/.667)

[Anebriated]

Yeah but is any warrior at that level going to lose sleep over 9 hp's?

[Danical]

Although the percentage difference remains constant, redux factor increases the gap between plate and chain crit divisors (in plate's favor).

The general (approximate) formula is: Crit Divisor/ ((1 - (2RF/3)

E.g., with no redux

Rank 1 chain crit divisor = 8.5
Rank 1 plate crit divsior = 10.5

Difference of 2 hit points

With a .500 RF ((1- (2*.500/3) = .667

Crit Divisor/.667

Rank 1 chain crit divisor: (8.5/.667) = 12.75 unreduced raw damage
Rank 1 plate crit divisor: (10.5/.667) = 15.75 unreduced raw damage

Difference of 3 hit points

This is per crit rank.

___________

At crit rank 9 the difference between plate and chain is 18 without redux and 27 with a .500 RF... a net gain of 9 HP's in favor of plate.

Without redux

Rank 9 chain crit divisor = 80.5
Rank 9 plate crit divisor = 98.5

With .500 RF

Rank 9 chain crit divisor = 120.67 (80.5/.667)
Rank 9 plate crit divisor = 147.67 (98.5/.667)

Motherfucking LOL @ someone trying to explaining Damage Reduction to Eric.

EDIT: when the fuck would a warrior ever take a rank 9 crit? Seriously?

----------------
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[Latrinsorm]

Mark knows a lot about redux! The trick here is that he's looking at the gap in *unreduced* damage (which gets bigger) while I look at the gap in *reduced* damage (which gets smaller). Given that unreduced raw damage doesn't physically exist in game, I think my choice is better. :)

[Riltus]

Mark knows a lot about redux! The trick here is that he's looking at the gap in *unreduced* damage (which gets bigger) while I look at the gap in *reduced* damage (which gets smaller). Given that unreduced raw damage doesn't physically exist in game, I think my choice is better. :)

:thanx: I feel like Rodney Dangerfield.

Although it may not be obvious to some, my post was not a comment on the plate/chain debate but just on the crit divisor inflation/deflation portion.

So, in that context, I'll explain it this way.

It is not possible for the gap to grow larger using unreduced damage and smaller using reduced damage. They are directly proportional. The gap between their absolute values and the crit divisor increases with an increasing RF but in opposite directions. Two scenarios: First, crit divisor 10.5, RF .500, RF1 .333 the unreduced damage at the crit divisor is 15.75 and 7.875 reduced damage. Second, CD 10.5, RF .600, RF1 .400 the crit divisor ureduced damage is 17.5 and the reduced damage is 7.

RF .500

10.5 - 15.75 = |5.25|
10.5 - 7.875 = |2.625|

(5.25/ 2.625) = 2
________________
RF .600

10.5 - 17.5 = |7|
10.5 - 7 = |3.5|

(7/ 3.5) = 2

From this, you can see that the gap away from the crit divisor increases for both reduced and unreduced damage, as the RF increases.
__________________________

and more....

RF = Total damage reduction (DFredux modified)
RF1 = DFredux

Until damage reaches a certain level (based on character level and redux points) there is only RF1 (DFredux). RF1 is a non-variable that spawns RF when this damage threshold is reached.

In reality, the crit divisor neither inflates or deflates, per say. The CD remains constant. However, as RF1 increases, the weapon damage factor decreases with (1- RF1) acting as a multiplier. This is key to understanding how this works.

Why so?... two reasons. First, when only RF1 is acting to reduce damage there is NO crit damage reduction, and second, RF1 is a constant. This exactly mirrors the old model and I've collected a ton of empirical data that supports this.

Here's where it gets a bit sticky. Even when damage is sufficient to move to total damage reduction (both raw and crit damage reduction), the crit divisor value is still only affected by RF1 and not RF, as we are both well aware. Trying to work backwards from RF (a variable) to RF1 (a non-variable) is somewhat problematic. Serendipitiousy, however, the data supports that a very close approximation is: RF1 = (2RF/3)

Rather than viewing the CD from reduced or unreduced damage, it is simpler to just use DFredux. This means that the endroll needed to reach the crit divisor threshold is an inverse function of the weapon damage factor. As RF1 increases the weapon DF decreases.

_________________________________

E.g., Handaxe versus plate with RF .500, RF1 .333, (1-RF1) = .667

1. Standard handaxe DF's by armor group (no redux):

.420/.300/.270/.240/.210

2. RF1 handaxe DF's (DF* .667):

.280/.200/.180/.160/.140

3. In the old model it would be (1- RF) or (DF* .500):

.210/.150/.135/.120/.105
_____________________________


Using the modified DF's, it is now possible to determine the success margin endroll necessary to cause a plate rank 1 crit.

No redux: success margin ER (10.5/.210) = 50

RF1 new model: success margin ER (10.5/.140) = 75

Old DFredux model: success margin ER (10.5/.105) = 100

As RF1 increases, the endroll necessary to cause a rank 1 crit increases because of the decreased weapon DF. This is the fundamental relationship.

______________________________________

You can now convert this endroll into either reduced or unreduced damage.

With a success margin ER of 75 --> (75* .210) 15.75 unreduced damage or (75* .140) 10.5 reduced damage for crit divisor purposes only. The actual reduced damage as it translates to HP damage is ((unreduced raw damage * (1- RF) which is (15.75 * .500) = 7.875 reduced damage.


And, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it :)

Mark

[Latrinsorm]

It is not possible for the gap to grow larger using unreduced damage and smaller using reduced damage.This is what I mean:
Reduced:
10.5 -> 7.875
8.5 -> 6.375

7.875 - 6.375 = 1.5

Unreduced
10.5 -> 15.75
8.5 -> 12.75

15.75 - 12.75 = 3

3 > 2 > 1.5

:D

[Riltus]

This is what I mean:
Reduced:
10.5 -> 7.875
8.5 -> 6.375

7.875 - 6.375 = 1.5

Unreduced
10.5 -> 15.75
8.5 -> 12.75

15.75 - 12.75 = 3

3 > 2 > 1.5

:D

I finally think I understand what you're doing. There is a problem with this. The crit divisor value doesn't actually deflate or inflate. It is a constant.

For a non-redux character it is the point when raw damage = 10.5. For a character with redux it is when reduced raw damage = 10.5 using the formula (unreduced damage * (1- RF1) = 10.5. or more likely, in my opinion, is that RF1 still acts on the weapon DF and reduces it just as in the old model. The reason that I prefer the latter is because the formula does not change. It is the same for redux and non-redux characters. (weapon DF * (ER -100) = 10.5 for a Rank 1 crit. The only thing that changes is the weapon DF.

When you try to deflate the crit divisor below 10.5 you have to use RF in the expression. But RF is a variable which changes from hit-to-hit and, therefore, would yield a constantly changing deflated crit divisor.

In terms of deflated/ inflated crit divisor with the plate values we have been using, it is: Deflated = 10.5 reduced damage and Inflated = 15.75 unreduced damage if the same weapon DF is applied to the success margin. If the weapon DF is modified by redux then it is much more elegant.

Using the previous example with handaxe DF.210/full plate/ RF1(.333). The redux handaxe DF reduces to (.210 * .667) = .140

It now requires a higher endroll for the 10.5 rank 1 crit threshold to be reached.

(ER 50 * .210) = 10.5 non-redux
(ER 75 * .140) = 10.5 redux

Mark

[Latrinsorm]

But RF is a variable which changes from hit-to-hit and, therefore, would yield a constantly changing deflated crit divisor.But this is what happens. Characters can get crit rank 1s on hits that only do 9 total damage in plate, for instance. I haven't yet seen hits that I could conclusively say showed different crit divisors for the same skill set (what with damage weighting being difficult to rule out), but it certainly happens that the crit divisor is less than 10.5 reduced raw damage (again, for plate).

[Riltus]

But this is what happens. Characters can get crit rank 1s on hits that only do 9 total damage in plate, for instance. I haven't yet seen hits that I could conclusively say showed different crit divisors for the same skill set (what with damage weighting being difficult to rule out), but it certainly happens that the crit divisor is less than 10.5 reduced raw damage (again, for plate).


Total reduced damage (HP damage) can be, and often is, less than the reduced (10.5) rank1 plate crit divisor. The reason for this is that total damage is reduced by RF. RF1 is not used to reduce this damage, exept under limited circumstances. It is only used to modifiy the weapon DF for the purposes of determining whether or not a crit will occur.

E.g.,

Let's look at this scenario:

Character A: RF.500, RF1 (.333), weapon DF.210, (ER -100) 75, modified weapon DF .140

Raw damage = 15.75
Crit damage = 3
Total unreduced damage = 18.75
HP damage = 9

((15.75 * (1- RF1) = 10.5 This means there will be a crit

18.75 * RF.500 = 9 HP damage This is the total reduced damage.

If RF was used to calculate the crit divisor, it wouldn't occur until the ureduced raw damage equalled 21.... (21 * .500) = 10.5


A determination is made using DF * ER to see if there is sufficient damage to cause a rank1 crit. In this case there is (.140 * 75) = 10.5 or if you prefer not to reduce the weapon DF, you can use RF1 (15.75 * .667) = 10.5

So now we've established that there is sufficient damage to cause a rank1 crit. What happens next?

For total damage reduction either RF or RF1 is used to reduce the damage. As it turns out once damage has reached a certain threshold then RF will always be used to reduce all the damage, but under no circumstance is it ever used for crit rank determination. That is one of the functions of RF1.

Even though RF1 and RF are not used simultaneously to reduce damage, RF1 is always used to calculate the reduced damage for crit divisors.

I hope this helps explain it. Quality explanations are not my long suit.:)

Mark

[Khariz]

How come I often get hit for 12 damage without getting a minor? I'm obviously missing something.

[AestheticDeath]

Probably the same reason I can get a 300 endroll to a creatures head and it survives. I am still pissed that only 50% or something of my rank 9 crits kill.

[Latrinsorm]

The 12 damage without a minor thing has two sources: damage weighting and that some crit tables (most commonly ensnare/grapple) don't do wounds at crit rank 1 (unlike the slash/crush/puncture tables).

Crit randomization cannot reduce a crit rank 1 to a crit rank 0, but it can (and does!) reduce crit rank 9s as far as crit rank 5s.