Ambushing Weapons

what is the best ambushing weapon to use as a OHE rogue?

[Artha]

If you're going for speed, use a short sword, dagger, or rapier. If you're going for damage, and axe or a falchion.

how about a longsword if your hunting things that are not going to be puncture proof?

[Souzy]

Falchion. :thumbsup:

6 second rt time though with a falchion

[Souzy]

Yup, but if you can find a nice wizard to imbed Haste for you, it cuts it down to 3, heh.

[Rowi]

I doubt Edine could find such a wizard! dont like the RT swing a katar! but thats OHE and brawlin

[StrayRogue]

I'd tell you, give you the best weapon of every class against every armor, cross-sectioned with speed, availability, advantages and disadvantages, much similar to what I did months ago about polearmers, but I don't really think its worth boring you all with another one of my endless "I hate America" or "I'd do her" posts which, according to most of you, comprises of my 4100+. Shame, eh?

[AnticorRifling]

Boring isn't the word that comes to mind when refering to your "I hate America" drivel. I just sift through it and find the good information that you tend to have. The word that comes to mind shall remain unsaid :cool:

now now stray i didnt get into that whole conflict if ya can help im willing to accept it from everywhere i can get it

[StrayRogue]

Bah, I'll do one in the morning, just for you Edine. Its 5:40.

[StrayRogue]

I felt guilty. Its now 7:14 AM and I am halfway through Die Hard 3.

OHE Ambushing Weapon Guide:

Ambush may be used with hiding or while in the open. When used from hiding, successful strikes may be much more lethal, and an opponent's defenses may be substantially reduced. The Ambush, Stalking and Hide, and Perception skills are recommended. When used from the open, the Ambush and Combat Maneuvers skills aid in achieving success. CM, as it adds to AS, still factors into the Hidden Ambush formula. However it has little to do with aiming, unless used from the open.

Aiming attacks with Ambush increases the RT for the attack. While some of this increased RT can be offset by high Agility and Dexterity (every , the Roundtime will always be at least one second longer than a normal swing would have been.
Ambushing from hiding will reduce or possibly completely negate the increase in defenses that a target gains from stance. The "stance reduction" is based on a comparison of the attacker's Ambushing ranks to the target's level. For example, if an ambusher leaps out and attacks an opponent that is in STANCE DEFENSIVE, the opponent's defenses will be downgraded, possibly even treating the opponent as if he were in STANCE OFFENSIVE, due to the surprising nature of ambushing from hiding. Age difference and skill in ambushing particularly are the prime factors in calculating the DS push-down. Never will it go below the targets Offensive Stance DS. All spells, DBs, shield/armor enchant etc will also apply to this total, and will never be reduced beyond this DS.

Ok, now onto each actual weapon in the OHE category.

There are fourteen weapon bases in the OHE range:
Backsword, Bastardsword, Broadsword, Dagger, Estoc, Falchion, Handaxe, Katar, Longsword, Main Gauche, Rapier, Scimitar, Short Sword, Katana

Now each weapon has its own advantages and disadvantages. This study will include the following details on each of the above weapon variants: Base Speed, Attack Vs Defense (AvD), Damage Type, and Damage Factor.

Each study will be related to each of the armor sub groups in regards to effectiveness.

Finally there will be a comparison of each weapon and their effects in regards to attacking and ambushing.

First we will each individual bases Damage types:
There are four primary types of damage which weapons can deal: puncture, crushing, slashing and grappling. Some damage types are more likely to cause greater amounts of damage than others. For instance, crushing is much more damaging than piercing.

Backsword: Slash, crush, puncture
Bastardsword: Slash, crush
Broadsword: Slash, crush, puncture
Dagger: Slash, puncture
Estoc: Puncture
Falchion: Slash, crush
Handaxe: Slash, crush
Katar: Puncture, slash
Longsword: Slash, crush, puncture
Main Gauche: Slash, puncture
Rapier: Slash, puncture
Scimitar: Slash, crush, puncture
Short Sword: Slash, crush, puncture
Katana: Slash

So, the Backsword, Bastardsword, Broadsword, Longsword, Scimitar and Short Sword are the most versatile in regards to the fact they can cause three of the four damage types (the fourth being grapple).

However looking at the AvDs and Damage Factors, the best weapons (for raw damage) for each armor type is...

Attack vs Defense (more commonly referenced as AvD) can be described as the effectiveness that a particular weapon has against a particular type of armor. Some weapons are more effective than others against some types of armor, and their AvD is correspondingly higher. For instance, an axe is more effective against heavier armors than a rapier. Likewise, all weapons react differently to different amounts of armor.

None: Rapier, followed by Longsword (45, 41)
Leather 1: Longsword, followed by Rapier (42, 40)
Leather 2: Longsword, followed by Rapier (41, 39)
Leather 3: Longsword, followed by Rapier (40, 38)
Leather 4: Longsword, Followed by Rapier (39, 37)
Scale 1: Longsword, followed by Katar (43, 40) (or Falchion or Handaxe for none brawlers)
Scale 2: Longsword, followed by Katar (41, 38) (or Falchion or Handaxe for none brawlers)
Scale 3: Longsword, followed by Katar (39, 36) (or Falchion or Handaxe for none brawlers)
Scale 4: Longsword, followed by Katar (37, 34) (or Falchion or Handaxe for none brawlers)
Chain 1: Katar, followed by Handaxe (45, 41) (or Estoc for none brawlers)
Chain 2: Katar, followed by Handaxe (41, 37) (or Estoc for none brawlers)
Chain 3: Katar, followed by Handaxe (37, 33) (or Estoc for none brawlers)
Chain 4: Katar, followed by Handaxe (33, 29) (or Estoc for none brawlers)
Plate 1: Handaxe, followed by Katar (41, 40) (or Falc for none brawlers)
Plate 2: Handaxe, followed by Katar (35, 34) (or Falc for none brawlers)
Plate 3: Handaxe, followed by Katar (29, 28) (or Falc for none brawlers)
Plate 4: Handaxe, followed by Katar (23, 22) (or Falc for none brawlers)

*1, 2, 3, 4 are all the various ASG (Armor Sub Groups). For example Leather 4, is Double leather, leather 3 would be reinforced etc. Chain 4 is hauberk etc etc.

So the falchion, perhaps the most popular weapon in the OHE world, is not the top on ease of use, however it nears the top of each category. Handaxe's tend to be best against the heavier armors, while Longswords dominate the Scale class and below.

However, ease of hitting does not equate to damage. The following is the damage factors for each class:
(Damage Factors:

How much damage is done by the weapon is calculated using the following numbers:
Trunc[(final result - 100) * DF + 0.5] = Raw HP damage)

The four armor types here are the lvl 4 variants - Double Leather, Brig, Hauberk, And Full Plate respectively (note all the polearm weapon types are not here, I am afraid, only the important ones):
Backsword .440 .310 .225 .240 .150
Bastardsword .450 .325 .275 .250 .185
Broadsword .450 .300 .250 .225 .200
Dagger .200 .125 .100 .080 .040
Estoc .425 .300 .200 .200 .150
Falchion .450 .325 .250 .250 .175
Handaxe .420 .300 .270 .240 .210
Katar ?
Longsword .425 .275 .225 .200 .175
Main Gauche .220 .130 .110 .090 .060
Rapier .220 .130 .110 .090 .060
Scimitar .300 .225 .175 .150 .125
Short Sword .300 .225 .200 .150 .125
Katana ?

So the Bastardsword, Falchion and Broadsword do perhaps the most damage per hit, with the Handaxe being slithtly better at the higher armors.

Speed will also be a factor however:
Backsword +5
Bastardsword +6
Broadsword +5
Dagger +1
Estoc +4
Falchion +5
Handaxe +5
Katar +4
Longsword +4
Main Gauche +2
Rapier +2
Scimitar +4
Short Sword +3
Katana +5

Now here we see where the lighter weapons come into effect. Remembering that an ambushing RT will always be 2 seconds (1 (regular rt) + 1 (ambush rt) =2) the dagger is easily the swiftest blade.

Weapon size is also an important role now in Ambushing. While this is pure speculation on my part, from my testing I'd conclude that most of the above weapons fall into the medium category, with the exception of Bastardsword (which is large), Short Sword and Dagger (which are the smaller weapon variety). Aiming with a smaller weapon is significantly easier, however the aforementioned factors (Ambush, Perception etc) still play the primary roles. Weapon size, I believe, does not effect criticals from ambushing. It was also announced that the medium weapons (and large) are easily more aimed now after a tweak to the system.

From the above data we can draw a number of conclusions. Primarily, the weapons that are most effective against each of the Armor groups are slow and medium in size. However, the small weapons, while having an the ability to be swung swiftly and aimed well. For the dodging rogue, perhaps the speed of the daggers 3 sec ambush rt is preferable to 6 secs from a falchion. Training can help you decide here: Are you going to 2x pt for Redux, 2x Armor for more toughness? Or are you going to stop at brig and triple Dodge? Each weapon can compliment the training.

Personally, I like to see high damage results. If I don't hit what I aim for, or don't even do enough damage to crit the location as much as I should (for example, a low endroll), higher damage (created by the Damage Factors) can still result in a stun and still wears away a proportion of the targets HP.

Another point is availability and functionability. Not many daggers or short swords or amazing or mid range quality exist. Plus, it is annoying to carry around four weapons at once just so you can be exceptional against one armor type.

CM Maneuvers apply also. QuickStrike can reduce a medium weapons ambush rt to comprable that of a small weapon. Presicion is also slated for release which will allow the weapon wielder to specify the Damage type done. Perhaps a weapon with more damage types will be better in that case (these are invariably the heavier OHE's)

However, effectiveness of ambush is pretty personal. Some "Have" to kill them in one hit. Others go for the back hit (an easy location and an easy, long stun) then raw HP damage. It all depends on how you RP and play your character.

I hope this helps.

thanks stray