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oldanforgotten
02-11-2008, 03:13 PM
Ok, so preliminary polls show the following:

Depending on which media outlet you use (AP, Realclearpolitics, NBC, FOX), Obama currently has a lead anywhere from 75 to 100 in Pledged Delegates, an approximate 200,000 vote lead in number of votes, and is behind by between 80 and 100 superdelegates.

Results vary from a 27 delegate lead for Clinton to a 5 delegate lead for Obama.

Polls in Virginia show Obama with anywhere from a 15 to 20 point lead:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/va/virginia_democratic_primary-507.html

Polls in Maryland show Obama with anywhere from an 18 to 26 point lead.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/md/maryland_democratic_primary-514.html

Preliminary but unscientific polls conducted in DC show Obama with a commanding lead of potentially 30 points or more.

There is an interesting contrast in some of the national polls as of late. In polls asking registered voters for a preference, Clinton and Obama are in a statistical tie (Clinton +1.8), which will skew a bit more as One older poll is replaced by the latest MSNBC poll showing 46-41 Obama.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

Now, given the national changes, why are the sample polls so off at times? The reason is very simplistic. To obtain a good random sample, the sample is generally screened via a litmus test of age, race, and party affiliation. As a result, generally a disproportionately small number of younger people (under the age of 35) and African Americans are polled (generally lower historical poll turnout), two areas that are strongly in favor of Obama, and two areas that are experiencing historically high turnout.

Estimates after the weekend are showing that Obama will probably have a generally unanimous poll lead once the day is complete. Estimates are saying that it is likely that Obama will pad his pledged delegate lead by anywhere from an additonal 35 to 60 delegates if the sample polls hold to form.

He is expected to pad his overall vote lead by another 200-250,000 votes as well.

Campaign officials for Hillary are trying to close the gap in Virginia, and are privately conceding Maryland and D.C., and while they are hoping the gap closes in Virginia, they are not optimistic about upset chances at this point. They are instead trying to solidify Ohio (which has reportedly become closer), and are pre-emptively starting up in Wisconsin (Chelsea is there already). Obama's campaign, on the other hand, has not revealed any part of their strategies in texas or Ohio, and are admitting that it is likely that both of those states, even with momentum, would be uphill climbs.

Another couple of interesting tidbits.

In the State of Washington, CNN reported that exit polls revealed that 44% of Obama's supporters would be happy with either candidate, whereas 47% said that they would not be happy if Clinton got the Nomination, whereas only 31% of Clinton voters said they'd be happy with either, and a whopping 63% said they would be unhappy is Obama got the nomination. Looks like Clinton is the more popular overall choice, right? Wrong.

Obama won the state with nearly 69% of the vote to Clinton's 31%. 63% of Clinton voters, or roughly, 19% of the people who voted, would be unhappy with Obama getting the nomination. 47% of Obama voters, or 32.5% (1.5% more people that voted for Clinton in the first place), would be unhappy with a Clinton nomination.

In what may become a big political blunder:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
Noting that "my husband never did well in caucus states either," Clinton argued that caucuses are "primarily dominated by activists" and that "they don't represent the electorate, we know that."

The New York senator went out of her way to say she was "absolutely" looking forward to the Ohio and Texas primaries in March, where she believes voters are more receptive to her bread-and-butter message.

She also downplayed many of Obama's Super Tuesday victories, describing them as states that Democrats should not expect to win in November.

"It is highly unlikely we will win Alaska or North Dakota or Idaho or Nebraska," she said, naming several of Obama's red state wins. "But we have to win Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Florida, Michigan ? And we've got to be competitive in places like Texas, Missouri and Oklahoma."

Not sure what she's thinking, but glad to know she thinks democrats in those states don't count. And if she was doing her research, she should know that Texas and Oklahoma are two of the reddest states out there, and Nebraska has been a swing state in the past.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's where the fun starts. Due to the way the delegates are divided in each state, estimates are showing that the most likely results going into the Convention, assuming both candidates stay in the race, will be Obama leading by between 180 and 250 delegates, or by around 160-220 pledged delegates.

That would give him a total delegate count from pledged delegates in the 1550-1600 range to Hillary's 1330-1380.

Making it up to the superdelegates. And With Hillary already possessing a near 2 to 1 lead in the pledged delegates (211-221 for Hillary to 118-137 for Obama depending on the source), with 796 up for grabs, and her husband and his clout actively calling for support, it is entirely possible that a person with a sizable lead in the vote could get Clinton'd out of the nomination.
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Trouble
02-11-2008, 03:20 PM
Hmm, I'll have to see how primaries work here in VA. I've never voted in one so I don't know if I can vote in both parties' or not. You don't pick a party in VA when you register, IIRC.

Edit - Doh, I'm SOL, from the VA website: "The last day to register to vote in the Virginia presidential primaries is January 14, 2008. The presidential primaries are scheduled to be held February 12, 2008. All registered voters may vote in either party's primary, but not both. Voters will be able to cast their votes in their normal polling place."

Some Rogue
02-11-2008, 03:20 PM
I wouldn't say that was a political blunder. I live in Illinois. Chicago determines how the state goes and it's always Democrat. I pretty much know my vote doesn't count either.

oldanforgotten
02-11-2008, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't say that was a political blunder. I live in Illinois. Chicago determines how the state goes and it's always Democrat. I pretty much know my vote doesn't count either.

There is a distinct difference in the self knowledge that your vote won't matter, and a candidate for president telling you that your vote doesn't matter, and that he/she doesn't care to have it. And considering she campaigned in Texas, Oklahoma, and Arizona, which are just as red, except even bigger.

Considering the crap turnout in Michigan and Florida in knowing their primaries had their delegates removed, I'm surprised she mentioned them as well.
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oldanforgotten
02-11-2008, 03:34 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23113858

She's touting that she's still ahead in delegates and popular vote. hrmmm, technically true in a sense, the average of the media sources shows that she is ahead by an average of about 11 delegates.

It's a solid spin for her with the popular vote as well, because technically, she is ahead there as well, if you count michigan, where Obama removed his name from the ballot months before the primary, and Florida, which had its delegates stripped and results invalidated by the DNC.

Outside of those two invalidated primaries, she's behind by over 200,000 votes and close to 100 pledged delegates.

Keep up the good spin Hillary!
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TheEschaton
02-11-2008, 03:35 PM
I don't think you should discoutn FL, no one campaigned there, everyone was on the ballot, so in a sense it was "even".

oldanforgotten
02-11-2008, 03:42 PM
I don't think you should discoutn FL, no one campaigned there, everyone was on the ballot, so in a sense it was "even".

I'm not discounting Florida. The DNC did. Not my call. I personally wouldnt accept Michigan from her perspective simply because his name wasn't even on the ballot, and neither was Edwards. Florida alone wouldn't give her the popular vote lead though, so she obviously does use Michigan data in her comment.

As for Florida, I think they should have a caucus or emergency primary, same with Michigan, because thats another 300+ delegates between the two states that could be seated, and it would give them an active chance to speak, without knowing in advance that their vote doesn't count. I don't think it will happen though, because the Clinton camp would unilaterally oppose it and demand if the seats were to be given back, that they be given back with the previous results counting, because under it, she would stand to gain every delegate in michigan, since she was the only major candidate left on it. It's a pickle for the DNC now in all honesty, with stupid decisions on every side of it.

And while Hillary did not actively campaign there, Bill did on her behalf, and they hosted fundraisers there.
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Clove
02-11-2008, 03:43 PM
I don't think you should discoutn FL, no one campaigned there, everyone was on the ballot, so in a sense it was "even".

Floridians can't vote.

Tsa`ah
02-11-2008, 03:55 PM
I don't think you should discoutn FL, no one campaigned there, everyone was on the ballot, so in a sense it was "even".

Actually, she did campaign.

Not in the direct way such as television and radio ads, but rather making it a point to bring up Florida several times after her SC debacle, that and the rallies her campaign put together ... and two of her co-chairs being FL politicians.

Clinton is not only gambling on OH and TX, but she's also gambling on the convention giving the nod to MI and FL delegates.

Sean of the Thread
02-11-2008, 04:11 PM
Clinton didn't "technically" campaign in Florida but she was all up in the face otherwise here. Crafty bitch.

oldanforgotten
02-11-2008, 05:47 PM
And apparently the once 30+ point lead in texas is down to 10 and presumptively falling.

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/polls/pdfs/ivrpolls-texas-democratic-republican-polls-jan30tojan31-2008.pdf
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Latrinsorm
02-12-2008, 10:28 AM
It makes sense that Senator Clinton would focus on later delegate-rich states and ignore the small fry. After all, it worked so well for Giuliani.

Parkbandit
02-12-2008, 11:18 AM
I don't think she's ignoring them.. I think she simply feels that it would be a waste of her already dwindling campaign funds to chase a contest she will probably lose. She can keep her name in the media by saying a reporter at MSNBC called her kid a whore, crying on demand, etc...

I hope she carries TX, OH and PA... I hope they basically are tied at the end of all this and the super delegates decide it. THAT will make for good entertainment.

oldanforgotten
02-12-2008, 11:22 AM
Party at Ilvane's!

we'll invite some FALNA people there while we're at it, so TheE can meet with Clinton friends who bombed and killed US citizens, so TheE can strategize with them how to win more Hispanic votes by freeing up gang leaders, drug cartel leaders, and and anything else for a cheap vote while calling the other side the moral abyss.
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Sean of the Thread
02-12-2008, 11:26 AM
Party at Ilvane's!


BUKKAKE!!!!!!

Bobmuhthol
02-12-2008, 11:29 AM
<<we'll invite some FALNA people there while we're at it, so TheE can meet with Clinton friends who bombed and killed US citizens, so TheE can strategize with them how to win more Hispanic votes by freeing up gang leaders, drug cartel leaders, and and anything else for a cheap vote while calling the other side the moral abyss.>>

It is, after all, completely infallible to believe every word in an editorial written by the wife of a pilot killed by terrorists. That's about as objective as you can get.

oldanforgotten
02-12-2008, 11:39 AM
<<we'll invite some FALNA people there while we're at it, so TheE can meet with Clinton friends who bombed and killed US citizens, so TheE can strategize with them how to win more Hispanic votes by freeing up gang leaders, drug cartel leaders, and and anything else for a cheap vote while calling the other side the moral abyss.>>

It is, after all, completely infallible to believe every word in an editorial written by the wife of a pilot killed by terrorists. That's about as objective as you can get.

Ok, let's just use the facts.

Clinton was about to leave office, and his wife was about to run for Senator in NY.

The voting base in NY is 13% Hispanic.

Clinton pardons 16 people who were convicted and admitted as such in court that they placed bombs in public buildings with the intent to kill over the exoneration of Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is still not exonerated.

the 16 people did not ask for clemency. 2 of them refused the clemency.

The Senate voted 95-2 condemning the pardons, and congress by a 400+ to 30 margin.

And to make my argument stronger, I'm googling the Bio of Dr. Gruber, hillary's health care advisor who said that freeing the Falna terrorists would make health care costs in the U.S go down.

Dr. Jonathan Gruber is a Professor of Economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he has taught since 1992. He is also the Director of the Program on Children at the National Bureau of Economic Research, where he is a Research Associate. He is a co-editor of the Journal of Public Economics, and an Associate Editor of the Journal of Health Economics.


Dr. Gruber received his B.S. in Economics from MIT, and his Ph.D. in Economics from Harvard. He has received an Alfred P. Sloan Foundation Research Fellowship, a FIRST award from the National Institute on Aging, and the Kenneth Arrow Award for the Best Paper in Health Economics in 1994. He was also one of 15 scientists nationwide to receive the Presidential Faculty Fellow Award from the National Science Foundation in 1995. During the 1997-1998 academic year, Dr. Gruber was on leave as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy at the Treasury Department. Dr. Gruber was elected to the Institute of Medicine in 2005, and in 2006 he received the American Society of Health Economists Inaugural Medal for the best health economist in the nation aged 40 and under. In 2006 he was appointed to the board of the Massachusetts Insurance Connector, the main implementing body for the state?s ambitious health care reform effort, and was named the 19th most powerful person in health care in the United States by Modern Healthcare Magazine.

Dr. Gruber's research focuses on the areas of public finance and health economics. He has published more than 100 research articles, has edited four research volumes, and is the author of Public Finance and Public Policy, a leading undergraduate text.
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Sean of the Thread
02-12-2008, 11:43 AM
Tamral is pretty good at google.

Bobmuhthol
02-12-2008, 11:43 AM
1. Those are some overwhelming facts, and I agree with your point but I probably would phrase it differently because I tend to support Bill Clinton.

2. Dr. Jonathan Gruber is fucking awesome. Posting his bio completely changes my opinion on the subject because he obviously knows what he's saying all the time.

Back
02-12-2008, 07:42 PM
Voted. Mission accomplished.

Respect the privilege that our Founding Fathers provided and those who died so you could have it.

Parkbandit
02-12-2008, 07:58 PM
Tamral is pretty good at google.

He's no Tsa'ah.

Parkbandit
02-12-2008, 07:59 PM
1. Those are some overwhelming facts, and I agree with your point but I probably would phrase it differently because I tend to support Bill Clinton.

Yea... if you just ignore the truth and facts.. Clinton was a kick ass President and very easy to support.

Back
02-12-2008, 08:01 PM
Looks like the Dem ticket is decided tonight but the Rep ticket is still in contest.

Hope McCain wins.

Parkbandit
02-12-2008, 08:03 PM
Looks like the Dem ticket is decided tonight but the Rep ticket is still in contest.

Hope McCain wins.


Jesus Christ, you've gotten dumber. How the fuck is that even possible?

Back
02-12-2008, 08:12 PM
Jesus Christ, you've gotten dumber. How the fuck is that even possible?

Ok, I am biased on the dem nomination. But it seems clear who has the real momentum now.

As for the reps, as I said before, I'd rather McCain than any of the other past and present nominees. Unfortunately the reps are in shambles and have been from the beginning.

Not laying blame on anyone here, just calling it like it is.

Parkbandit
02-12-2008, 08:37 PM
Ok, I am biased on the dem nomination. But it seems clear who has the real momentum now.

As for the reps, as I said before, I'd rather McCain than any of the other past and present nominees. Unfortunately the reps are in shambles and have been from the beginning.

Not laying blame on anyone here, just calling it like it is.

Damn.. the "How the fuck is that even possible" was more of a funny statement... I wasn't expecting you to prove it in the very next post.

Well done though.

Back
02-12-2008, 08:41 PM
Damn.. the "How the fuck is that even possible" was more of a funny statement... I wasn't expecting you to prove it in the very next post.

Well done though.

So what is your take on the primaries so far? That IS what we are talking about in this thread, right?

Back
02-12-2008, 10:16 PM
CNN is reporting sweeps in the Chesapeke Primary for Obama and McCain. I could not be happier.

Snapp
02-12-2008, 10:45 PM
Looks like the Dem ticket is decided tonight but the Rep ticket is still in contest.



Are you sure you don't have that backwards...?

Gan
02-12-2008, 10:49 PM
Are you sure you don't have that backwards...?

Consider the source. ;)

Back
02-12-2008, 10:49 PM
Are you sure you don't have that backwards...?

Odd question. Clearly Obama and McCain won the Chesapeke of the Potomic Primary. My contention is that the Democratic race is almost over, but the Republican race is still split. Sorry if that was not clear in my earlier posts.

Celephais
02-12-2008, 10:51 PM
Odd question. Clearly Obama and McCain won the Chesapeke of the Potomic Primary. My contention is that the Democratic race is almost over, but the Republican race is still split. Sorry if that was not clear in my earlier posts.
... no everyone understood what you said, it's just wrong. The Democratic ticket is much more up for debate than the Republican ticket, the Republican ticket is about as decided as it's going to get.

Snapp
02-12-2008, 10:52 PM
Posted by Back
Odd question. Clearly Obama and McCain won the Chesapeke of the Potomic Primary. My contention is that the Democratic race is almost over, but the Republican race is still split. Sorry if that was not clear in my earlier posts.

....

Okay.

Back
02-12-2008, 10:54 PM
... no everyone understood what you said, it's just wrong. The Democratic ticket is much more up for debate than the Republican ticket, the Republican ticket is about as decided as it's going to get.

You do have a point. Huck is still in it and getting lots of votes.

Huck is to McCain as Hillary is to Obama?

TheEschaton
02-12-2008, 10:57 PM
Huck has 200 something delegates, McCain over 800 now. They need 1091 or something to get the nomination. It's decided.

Whereas, Clinton and Obama are virtually tied in delegates, though I think tonight is Obama finally getting the momentum needed to win it.

-TheE-

Tsa`ah
02-13-2008, 01:46 AM
Huck has 200 something delegates, McCain over 800 now. They need 1091 or something to get the nomination. It's decided.

That is unless Huck's campaign co-pilot appears to the voters of the remaining states to endorse Huck ... resulting in Huck carrying 80% or more in each state.

Gan
02-13-2008, 08:10 AM
Politico and RCP have McCain at around 800 delegates. Huckabee's still around mid 200's. Romney has bowed out and still has more delegates than Huckabee and has not pledged his to anyone yet. And Ron Paul, still hanging in there with under 20.

Its becoming patently obvious that Huckabee wants the 2nd seat on the McCain bus. Some pundits are saying this is the only combo that will beat Obama. Others are saying that its likely to scare moderates and independants who like McCain over to Obama.

The Huckabee factor. Its going to have an impact one way or another.

Good article on the guessing game of running mates beginning:
http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080212/NATION/504804903/1001

http://images.politico.com/global/08211_edtoon2-12_336.jpg

Parkbandit
02-13-2008, 08:16 AM
Huck has 200 something delegates, McCain over 800 now. They need 1091 or something to get the nomination. It's decided.

Whereas, Clinton and Obama are virtually tied in delegates, though I think tonight is Obama finally getting the momentum needed to win it.

-TheE-

:rofl: @ you trying to explain it to Backlash. It must be so nice to have him back... makes you look slightly more normal.