rogues

[Fraidycat]

How would a Sorcerer waste a hiding rogue of relatively the same level?

[Jonty]

Do something that would cause the rogue to stop stalking you, e-wave, then do what ever you have to do.

[Anebriated]

if they are hiding ewave and maelstrom, the maelstrom will pull them out of hiding each time. If they know what they are doing then they will move two rooms away. so just hit em with 706 or delimb them. If their TD is a bit high hit em with 413 to lower it and then have fun...

[Jonty]

If they are stalking you, e-wave won't work.

[Moist Happenings]

Nuts to that. hide yourself once. Either they'll come out and point at you, or they'll not be stalking you anymore and you're free to ewave them. Then just either stun, torment, implode, whatever. Rogues have low TDs.

[Parkbandit]

Sorcerers are funny... they should be smart enough NOT to fuck with a rogue.

Sorcerers have soft heads. :smug:

The simple solution. Beg the rogue for forgiveness and run away. Hopefully, the rogue will find it in their heart to forgive you.

[Jonty]

I suggest hiding ranks for that.... If you fail and end up in RT you open yourself up for attack.

[Fraidycat]

Well apart the town park 'idiot', that was useful info.
Low TD's = Inside out rogue.
Thanks.

[Gan]

If a sorcerer is attacking a rogue and the rogue is already in hiding, its too late for the sorcerer to do anything.

Pick any of the below to be the victim of:
rogue+stalk+cheapshot+ambush=dead sorcerer.

If you hide, he'll just point you out and put you in RT... then kill ya.

If you ewave, his stalking will negate that... along with all other area effect spells such as implode, maelstrom, major ewave, etc.

With the reduced defensive capabilities of people when being ambushed from hidden, most casters have become very vulnerable, heck, most anyone has become very vulnerable now unless the person being attacked has a huge level disparity over the atacker. Especially to daggers or crossbow bolts to the eyes.

The quickest way to stay alive while in conflict with a rogue is to give him all your gems...

[Prestius]

A rogue in hiding?

It goes like this: Quake --> Stun --> Nightmare --> Curse --> Limb Disrupt x4 --> Grab Rogue Arm --> Beat Rogue Over Head With Own Limb --> Hit the Bar


-P

[pennywise]

Ive always enjoyed rubbing an invisibility amulet, loosing the rogue, then giving him a couple days to get comfortable, and finally catching back up him, stunning him and toying with the now incapacitated moron for a while.

[Edited on 1-14-2004 by pennywise]

[Edited on 1-14-2004 by pennywise]

[Gan]

Originally posted by pennywise
Ive always enjoyed rubbing an invisibility amulet, loosing the rogue, then giving him a couple days to get comfortable, and finally catching back up him, stunning him and toying with the now incapacitated moron for a while.


That works both ways....
A light crossbow bolt flies out of the shadows toward xxxx
!
AS: +460 vs DS: +84 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +11 = +414
... and hits for 67 points of damage!
Incredible shot to the eye penetrates deep into skull!
* xxxx drops dead at your feet!
xxxx no longer looks so weak.
The light crossbow bolt sticks in xxxx's right eye!
* xxxx just bit the dust!


:lol:

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Ganalon
If a sorcerer is attacking a rogue and the rogue is already in hiding, its too late for the sorcerer to do anything.

Pick any of the below to be the victim of:
rogue+stalk+cheapshot+ambush=dead sorcerer.


No, it's like this:

ambusher already hiding + ambush sorcerer == dead sorcerer

No need for the other junk.



If you hide, he'll just point you out and put you in RT... then kill ya.


Nope, if he points you out HE gets 2 seconds RT. Which gives you time to cast....

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Prestius
A rogue in hiding?

It goes like this: Quake --> Stun --> Nightmare --> Curse --> Limb Disrupt x4 --> Grab Rogue Arm --> Beat Rogue Over Head With Own Limb --> Hit the Bar


-P

Again, if the rogue is stalking you, quake will not work to get him out.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by pennywise
Ive always enjoyed rubbing an invisibility amulet, loosing the rogue, then giving him a couple days to get comfortable, and finally catching back up him, stunning him and toying with the now incapacitated moron for a while.


Best idea I've heard yet, though I wouldn't wait a couple of days....

[Moist Happenings]

Open implode will pull you out of hiding too right? Just implode.

[J-Tech]

Originally posted by Prestius
A rogue in hiding?

It goes like this: Quake --> Stun --> Nightmare --> Curse --> Limb Disrupt x4 --> Grab Rogue Arm --> Beat Rogue Over Head With Own Limb --> Hit the Bar


-P

Yes - I will back P up on this method, i've used it before as a sorcerer (well something like it), its a very fun method.

-John

[Jonty]

If he's hiding and he's smart, he will be stalking you, so open implode wouldn't work either. I like the glass amulet idea.

[Jonty]

Yeah, I have a glass amulet if ya wanna buy it. ;)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Prestius
A rogue in hiding?

It goes like this: Quake --> Stun --> Nightmare --> Curse --> Limb Disrupt x4 --> Grab Rogue Arm --> Beat Rogue Over Head With Own Limb --> Hit the Bar
-P

Mr. P dude... you forgot one simple fact... quake does not bring the rogue out.. it merely makes him fall in hiding... and only if the rogue didn't stalk the sorcerer to being with.

So the formula SHOULD read:

Quake --> Look of confusion --> Inset of panic --> Swept off feet --> Left arm taken off --> Right arm taken off--> Laughed at by mean rogue--> Misery ended with cut to throat --> Dragged to an empath and cleric --> Lesson learned.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Jonty

If you hide, he'll just point you out and put you in RT... then kill ya.


Nope, if he points you out HE gets 2 seconds RT. Which gives you time to cast....

Actually, it puts you both in a 2 second rt.. and any rogue worth his salt will easily hide quicker than a sorcerer can prep a spell and cast it.

Rogue wins..

[Drew2]

No, it doesn't. Only the pointer gets RT. The rogue just can't hide again immediatly because he/she has to "Look for another hiding spot". They can however scamper off.

[Parkbandit]

I could tell you a foolproof way to defeat a common street rogue of around your level.. but I don't want to for obvious reasons. I will tell you that no one here has come up with the method yet... except maybe Pennywise. But there IS a method to take care of the rogue that day and time. I about shit my pants the first time someone pulled it on Falgrin.. was pretty ingenious.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Actually, it puts you both in a 2 second rt.. and any rogue worth his salt will easily hide quicker than a sorcerer can prep a spell and cast it.

Rogue wins..

Macros

Scripts

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tayre
No, it doesn't. Only the pointer gets RT. The rogue just can't hide again immediatly because he/she has to "Look for another hiding spot". They can however scamper off.

Damn.. Pwned by a Tayre. I need to go kill myself now. :sniffle:

He is right... and I should have remembered that. God I feel stupid.

Point Tayre.

[Drew2]

It was only because Falgrin has skillz and never gets pointed out, right? :smug:

[Xcalibur]

stalk?

march south/north anywhere

there you just removed the person stalking you
then, you do what you want to do

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Tayre
No, it doesn't. Only the pointer gets RT. The rogue just can't hide again immediatly because he/she has to "Look for another hiding spot". They can however scamper off.

What are you replying to? We're talking about the ROGUE pointing at the Sorcerer, which gives the rogue 2 seconds RT, not time to wait for a new hiding place. The sorcerer would be the one who would have to wait a few seconds to hide again.

[Fallen]

Every sorcerer should carry an invisibility amulet. Let the square try to pull out a scroll and dispel you, heh. Its funny when they think they have mad magical skillz.

To kill a rogue who is stalking you from hiding, use invis am, run to an area where they cannot follow (such as a table or tapestry) pop out the other side with quake.

Take your time and let them beg for their lives in that broken Common all you illegitimate ingrates adopt to speak.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
stalk?

march south/north anywhere

there you just removed the person stalking you
then, you do what you want to do

:lol: I totally forgot about that one.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Tayre
No, it doesn't. Only the pointer gets RT. The rogue just can't hide again immediatly because he/she has to "Look for another hiding spot". They can however scamper off.

Think ya got that backwards...

The person being pointed out gets the RT, not the pointer... so if the rogue, with his superior perception and hiding ability does the pointing, then the sorcerer, the one who attempts to hide and gets pointed out, gets the RT.

Thus...

Sorcerer hides
Rogue sees sorcerer, points out sorcerer
Sorcerer is revealed, suffers RT
Rogue sweeps sorcerer, hides, and starts removing limbs... leading to inevitable death.

nuff said.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Ganalon

Originally posted by Tayre
No, it doesn't. Only the pointer gets RT. The rogue just can't hide again immediatly because he/she has to "Look for another hiding spot". They can however scamper off.

Think ya got that backwards...

The person being pointed out gets the RT, not the pointer... so if the rogue, with his superior perception and hiding ability does the pointing, then the sorcerer, the one who attempts to hide and gets pointed out, gets the RT.

Thus...

Sorcerer hides
Rogue sees sorcerer, points out sorcerer
Sorcerer is revealed, suffers RT
Rogue sweeps sorcerer, hides, and starts removing limbs... leading to inevitable death.

nuff said.

No, the only thing Tayre has backward is the rogue being pointed out and having to wait to hide again; the sorcerer gets pointed out, not the rogue. ONLY the pointer gets 2 seconds RT.

[Edited on 1-14-2004 by Jonty]

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Actually, it puts you both in a 2 second rt.. and any rogue worth his salt will easily hide quicker than a sorcerer can prep a spell and cast it.

Rogue wins..

I WAS REPLYING TO THE POST DIRECTLY BEFORE MINE, KTHX.

[Xcalibur]

MARCH SOUTH
PREP 720
CAST
PREP 417
CAST AT VOID (OR WHATEVER)

ROGUE IS DEAD

BRING A DISK TO BE SURE TO KILL HIM

That being said, rogue sux in gs4. :P

[Fallen]

Laugh.. except they can push through all your stance defense without the use of a guild skill from hiding.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Tayre

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Actually, it puts you both in a 2 second rt.. and any rogue worth his salt will easily hide quicker than a sorcerer can prep a spell and cast it.

Rogue wins..

I WAS REPLYING TO THE POST DIRECTLY BEFORE MINE, KTHX.

OK, KTHX...

Geez, was just confused 'cause you were saying that the rogue would have to wait to hide when we were discussing the sorcerer hiding to get the rogue out of their group and then being pointed out by the rogue.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Fallen
Laugh.. except they can push through all your stance defense without the use of a guild skill from hiding.

Exactly, rogues do not suck in GS4.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I could tell you a foolproof way to defeat a common street rogue of around your level.. but I don't want to for obvious reasons. I will tell you that no one here has come up with the method yet... except maybe Pennywise. But there IS a method to take care of the rogue that day and time. I about shit my pants the first time someone pulled it on Falgrin.. was pretty ingenious.

Damnit..now you got me thinking..

-Adredrin

[Gan]

Originally posted by Jonty

Originally posted by Ganalon
If a sorcerer is attacking a rogue and the rogue is already in hiding, its too late for the sorcerer to do anything.

Pick any of the below to be the victim of:
rogue+stalk+cheapshot+ambush=dead sorcerer.


No, it's like this:

ambusher already hiding + ambush sorcerer == dead sorcerer

No need for the other junk.



If you hide, he'll just point you out and put you in RT... then kill ya.


Nope, if he points you out HE gets 2 seconds RT. Which gives you time to cast....

Guess my response was based on the last part of the above quote then... so there. :p

enough of the semantics... My money is on the rogue..

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
MARCH SOUTH
PREP 720
CAST
PREP 417
CAST AT VOID (OR WHATEVER)

ROGUE IS DEAD

BRING A DISK TO BE SURE TO KILL HIM

That being said, rogue sux in gs4. :P

Eh? I can push my OFFENSIVE defenses into the 400+ range if I want, and Falgrin/Edaarin can pretty much leg me at will. Simple guild skill stun and thats it for me. It's also fair to say if I get off a spell that wards before them, it might be my fight.

I think wizard/rogues are pretty even, and I know as a wizard I kick ass in GS4, so I disagree that rogues blow.

[Edited on 1-14-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Fallen]

Yep, just use an invisibility amulet. If they get off the attack from hiding before you have a chance to do anything, you have CoS if your stunned. Thats about it.

For some reason they thought it would be cool for rogues to be able to hit you from any stance.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Fallen
For some reason they thought it would be cool for rogues to be able to hit you from any stance.

I think its part of the powers that be trying to put a little reality into attack and defense... like, just how well can one defend from an attack that is not seen? such as from hiding...


**edited to add that I"ve reached my post quota for the next few weeks, so I'm going back to work.**

[Edited on 1-14-2004 by Ganalon]

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I think its part of the powers that be trying to put a little reality into attack and defense... like, just how well can one defend from an attack that is not seen? such as from hiding...

Like we can hide while standing right in front of the person right? :P

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Ganalon

Originally posted by Fallen
For some reason they thought it would be cool for rogues to be able to hit you from any stance.

I think its part of the powers that be trying to put a little reality into attack and defense... like, just how well can one defend from an attack that is not seen? such as from hiding...

Reality in GS? Yeh right. I'll never agree with that. There are too many holes. Like, a rogue being able to hide, un-noticed when I'm *watching them*. Or, how he can stand infront of me, holding a conversation while stealing from me? Its a joke.

-Adredrin

[Fallen]

Laugh, reality. Thats why my spells help stop a sword but not some morons leg. My spells can also tell the difference between a fist at my head for a normal strike, and one that is trying to guild stun me. Give me a break.

Its game balance, reality took an ass fucking on that one.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Jonty

Originally posted by Ganalon
I think its part of the powers that be trying to put a little reality into attack and defense... like, just how well can one defend from an attack that is not seen? such as from hiding...

Like we can hide while standing right in front of the person right? :P

:lol: touche!

I yield on that reality idea.

now back to work.

[DeV]

someone sell me a glass amulet or tell me where to get one..

[Jonty]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
someone sell me a glass amulet or tell me where to get one..

I'm in the rift right now, but I have one in landing. IM me if ya want it.

[Fallen]

Solhaven, though not in the alchemy store. Its in the dark building I think. They are expensive though, expect to pay 40-60k if I remember correctly. 50 rubs I believe.

[Parkbandit]

You people actually believe a rogue will stop stalking someone who rubs an invisibility amulet?

And kodos for Xcalibur.. you can also join someone else, disband the group and then cast your ewave. I also heard you can simply disband your group and then cast ewave.. but I haven't tried that yet.

[Xcalibur]

disband won't work

march is the solution, from a place that is sancted.

[Fraidycat]

So I take it sorcerers should be worried about rogues the most of any profession then?
Spikethorn is nice . . .

Is this thread trying to break the record for "most bad advice"?

Marching won't help in GS4, it doesn't break groups or stalking.

Invisibility won't necessarily help.

And lastly, at medium to higher levels, any rogue or warrior is going to have a hell of a time killing a like aged sorceror without getting seriously hurt. Even if you kill the sorceror in one swing, his cloak of shadows will still strike out at you with whatever spell they have set.

I'm not even sure what a rogue can do to a spelled up sorceror once they get to legend age.

[Halfsilver]

Exactly Fraidycat,

All this talk about rogues and sorcerors, when a well-trained ranger could just walk in and own them all.

And on that note, My 1000th post. Woo!

[Xcalibur]

march works

tested by someone just now

[Jonty]

Ahh, GS4 has changed many things. Can you still rub a glass amulet while hiding? You could try that, then you'll be hiding and invisible.

[DeV]

Jonty.. check your U2U

[Anebriated]

OK first off the crystal amulet will not work as you want it to. When someone is stalking a wizard or someone with a glass amulet and they rub it they go invis. obviously. BUT, the person stalking will continue to follow. Both members of the party will be 'invis' while moving around. best bet is to march and cast as was stated by X. Maelstrom will work on a hidden person IF you cast at them in the open. It wont work if they are already in hiding.

[Anebriated]

Just wondering, would an open cast of evil eye work? I know it hits everyone in the room but would it get someone in hiding?

[Fallen]

OK first off the crystal amulet will not work as you want it to. When someone is stalking a wizard or someone with a glass amulet and they rub it they go invis. obviously. BUT, the person stalking will continue to follow. Both members of the party will be 'invis' while moving around.>>

Just quickly go (while invisible/invulnerable) to somewhere where you cannot follow such as a table. Pop out of that area casting a spell like quake, from there its whatever you want to do with the square.

[Edited on 1-14-2004 by Fallen]

[Moist Happenings]

Flash a cursed diamond. works every time.

[Anebriated]

Well you cant go to a table invis, so unless you drop the invis, run to the table, run out and cast.... That is shaky too because i can only think of 3 inns that are outside of town, and only 2 of them are out of the reach of the constable. Although you could always try climbing the GY fence...

[Anebriated]

No, the best trick is to flash a diamond or emerald that has been poured on with a pure potion. Put that gem into a container full of cursed gems and youll see a pissed off rogue or two. Trust me, works great in the Park.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Neff
Flash a cursed diamond. works every time.

Shit.. forgot that one.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
Is this thread trying to break the record for "most bad advice"?

Marching won't help in GS4, it doesn't break groups or stalking.

Invisibility won't necessarily help.

And lastly, at medium to higher levels, any rogue or warrior is going to have a hell of a time killing a like aged sorceror without getting seriously hurt. Even if you kill the sorceror in one swing, his cloak of shadows will still strike out at you with whatever spell they have set.

I'm not even sure what a rogue can do to a spelled up sorceror once they get to legend age.

I don't know about marching.. but the sneaking movement does. You cannot be the head of a group if your movement is defined as 'sneak'.

Also, Ambush+blue crystal+madness+10x cleaver = dead sorcerer. Period. Level 60 sorcerer really has no chance of blocking that. Couple that with an ewaving rogue and you have one dead sorcerer.

Good point on the cloak spell though... I keep forgetting about that spell.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Elrodin
No, the best trick is to flash a diamond or emerald that has been poured on with a pure potion. Put that gem into a container full of cursed gems and youll see a pissed off rogue or two. Trust me, works great in the Park.

Bastard.

I hate you. :flamed:

[Edaarin]

You know what I love about GSIV aside from DS pushdown? Subdue. It's actually useful now. I can effectively bind anyone around my level. As for the hiding sorc, that's why smart rogues have e-wave. Waste 0 time searching, put them in RT and on the ground.

Good strategies though. Won't stop a rogue from hiding, quickstriking while getting the ambush pushdown and hiding in less than a second after the attack. Refer to threads where my rogue wasted Selfane and Drabbo to see ambush efficiency.

[Edited on 1-14-2004 by Edaarin]

[StrayRogue]

Can't be really fussed to read this thread, as a sorc trying to kill a rogue is asking for trouble in the GS4 environment. BUT, if they are hiding, simply march/skip/stride in a direction, cast Quake then move back in. Finish at your leisure.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Can't be really fussed to read this thread, as a sorc trying to kill a rogue is asking for trouble in the GS4 environment. BUT, if they are hiding, simply march/skip/stride in a direction, cast Quake then move back in. Finish at your leisure.

To repeat once again.. Quake doesn't bring you out of hiding.. it simply can knock you over.. but you are now laying down while hidden.

Which can easily be corrected with a little trick called rg stealth stand.

[Fallen]

Are you still stalking?

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Can't be really fussed to read this thread, as a sorc trying to kill a rogue is asking for trouble in the GS4 environment. BUT, if they are hiding, simply march/skip/stride in a direction, cast Quake then move back in. Finish at your leisure.

To repeat once again.. Quake doesn't bring you out of hiding.. it simply can knock you over.. but you are now laying down while hidden.

Which can easily be corrected with a little trick called rg stealth stand.

In GS4? I've been brought out of hiding with Quake before.

[Parkbandit]

When Klaive used to quake Falgrin's park... typically Falgrin would be hidden.

Klaive is generally the same level as Falgrin and it never brought Falgrin out of hiding.

Ewave will, but I don't think Quake will.

[StrayRogue]

I know I've been brought out of hiding by Quake, however this was in GS3, not GS4, so it may have changed.

[Xinister]

Forget the rogue, GS4 has made the warrior the most powerful ambusher.