Go Giants

[Sean of the Thread]

fuck the patsies.

[Anebriated]

I cant root for division rivals. I especially cant root for Eli Manning. Its too soon for his career to be validated by a superbowl.

[Sean of the Thread]

It's too young in Brady's career to have another superbowl win.

[mgoddess]

Fuck the Pats, go Giants!

[Ilvane]

Pfft..Go Pats!!

[TheEschaton]

At the half. Fucking Giants are gonna make this a game and then break my heart by losing at the end. Damn it.

[diethx]

I fucking love Tom Petty. Finally a half-time show that doesn't eat cheesy balls.

[Gelston]

I don't like either team. Although this guy I know is from New York and likes the Giants, and I don't like him so much, so I'm for the Patriots.

[Ilvane]

Yeah, he pretty much rocks..woohoo.

[Augie]

My mom is praying that the Giants win because she is a Dolphins fan and doesn't want anyone else having a perfect season.

I hope the Giants win cause I hate the Patriots. Although the Giants are on my shit list for knocking out the Packers.

[TheEschaton]

Does Tom Brady look a little yellow to anyone else? Like jaundiced yellow?

[Makkah]

I noticed that too. (about the liver problems)

[Daniel]

BOOYA BITCH!!!

[TheEschaton]

I don't dare to hope. Please. Please.

[Gan]

Nice touchdown for the Giants... :)

[Makkah]

Three fucking passes on the 6 with 3 minutes left. Fucking idiots.

At least they scored. Too much time.

[Daniel]

I literally just busted all of my knuckles jumping into the ceiling from that scramble and catch.

[Gan]

TOUCHDOWN GIANTS!!!

[Daniel]

FEJRGJGARKHDKGkfgkg


YES!!!!

[Makkah]

With an offensive line playing like the Pats... they deserve to lose.

[diethx]

huzzah, go giants

[Gelston]

Fucking hell man.

Now I get to hear all this shit tomorrow.

[Soulpieced]

MVP = Entire Giants Defense?

[Stanley Burrell]

HOLY FUCK

[Sean of the Thread]

roflroflrofl

Fucking sweet.

[Skeeter]

rofl belicheat walking off the field before the game was over. Stay classy Bill stay classy.

[Gelston]

In his defense, I'd hurry the fuck off too. Traffic is probably a bitch there.

[TheEschaton]

YES! I look forward to mocking everyone tomorrow at work.

[diethx]

MVP = Entire Giants Defense?

qft

[Skeeter]

should cowboys fans be chaning NFC East NFC east?

[Augie]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111oneonelevenwtfbbq

[Stanley Burrell]

hOLY FUCK

[Sean of the Thread]

I fucking sweat the last few minutes I'm not going to lie however the Giants made me cream tonight.

[Gelston]

Oh, and those Terminator vs. Robotic Football player clips were awesome.

[Daniel]

OMFG. GREATEST GAME EVER. THAT FUCKING SCRAMBLE AND 35 YARD PASS WAS AMAZING.

[Daniel]

Bill Bellichek sux cox.

[Adhara]

OMG I cannot stop giggling. I want to order my 18-1 t-shirt right this second! And I have a number of ideas for other shirts as well. I'm so hyper right now! What a rush!

[RichardCranium]

should cowboys fans be chaning NFC East NFC east?

Lol somebody's still bitter.

[Skeeter]

Lol somebody's still bitter.

was just curious if that's how it worked. You know, give those cowboy fans something to cheer about.

[Durgrimst]

WOW, that was a great 4th quarter, and someone needs to check the stats, but Im guessing that Brady was pressured more in this game than most of the regular season.

[Soulpieced]

I'd wager that Brady was rushed or hit more times this game than for any stretch for at least 6 consecutive games in the regular season.

[Hips]

FUCK YES!!!


Thank youuuuuu Giants, I just won $200!!

[Sean of the Thread]

OMG I cannot stop giggling. I want to order my 18-1 t-shirt right this second! And I have a number of ideas for other shirts as well. I'm so hyper right now! What a rush!

Holy shit that's a great idea. Do you have a link?

[Sean of the Thread]

FUCK YES!!!


Thank youuuuuu Giants, I just won $200!!



I just won 6k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gan]

The helmet catch and that sack on Brady in the Pats posession right afterwards was fucking artistry.

[mgoddess]

Boo. Fucking. YEAH!

Go Giants!

Greatest game of football I've seen in a long time.

(Take that fucking Patriots... fucking Mosshole and traitor Seau.)

[Sean of the Thread]

If I was at the sports bar tonight there would be a 78% chance that I'd end up searching for bail.

Dunedin, FL. Is like little Boston. Annoying as hell.

[Bobmuhthol]

Giants cheated.

[Daniel]

I'm surprised that half of new england hasn't committed suicide by now.

[Numbers]

I'm just glad we finally got a Super Bowl game that was more exciting than the commercials.

[LMingrone]

I just got home. HAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAH FUCK you Patriots! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[BigWorm]

Pats cheated.

There, fixed it for you.

[Kefka]

HOLY FUCK

Ahhh! As I called it! No team's sweeping these Giants this year! Wooh! Next bold prediction, Mets are gonna take it! You heard it here first!


By the way, about that brick you was gonna shit...

[Stanley Burrell]

Ahhh! As I called it! No team's sweeping these Giants this year! Wooh! Next bold prediction, Mets are gonna take it! You heard it here first!


By the way, about that brick you was gonna shit...

Oh geeze.

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time]

Don't worry, New York is permitted one decent story each year. Lord knows it wont happen in baseball, basketball, or hockey, so why not let Eli smile for once?

PS: I won my fantasy league, BUT, I don't live in New York. Had I in fact lived in New York, I doubt the Giants would've won, as the yearly feel-good-story-quota would've since been reached.

[Lyonis]

Congratulations to the Patriots who will leave a legacy of the most awesome, most perfect team ever in the history of the NFL to not win the Super Bowl.

~Life long Laker fan raised to hate all things Celtic

[Ilvane]

Good for Eli Manning, congrats Giants fans.

We still love the Pats. 18-1 is nothing to be ashamed of..even if they lost the Super Bowl.

Angela

[RichardCranium]

Good for Eli Manning, congrats Giants fans.

We still love the Pats. 18-1 is nothing to be ashamed of..even if they lost the Super Bowl.

Angela

18-1 is nothing to be ashamed of, but cheating and having the most classless coach in the NFL as well as the most sorry piece of shit to put on a football uniform in Rodney Harrison is.

[Daniel]

18-1 is awesome. Go niners. Go Bears.

However, being 18-1 and not winning the superbowl is ROFLSKFJFSKFKFKDKFGJK
hahahahhahahahah
a

[Sean of the Thread]

Rofl @ patriots

[Arkans]

I mean, the Patriots totally deserve a FUCKING PWNED!!!11

Unfortunately, they did deserve it. They played shitty football last night. Good work for the Giants, seriously.

As for us New England fans, why not just blame this all on some under represented minority group?

- Arkans

[TheEschaton]

Yeah, when Bellichek left the field before the game was over like the truly classless piece of shit he is, I knew I had done well in going against my usual "root for the AFC" bias to cheer for a team that's beaten my team in the Super Bowl.

Now for the season's worth of excuses from the Pats fans at school today. I'm just gonna keep on pointing out Bill walking off the field early, stupid fuck.

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

Eli is still a douchebag for the shit he pulled on draft day.

[Daniel]

In retrospect. I would have peed my pants in Excasty if Eli Manning would have taken that last play and threw a bomb to Toomer. "To finish out the game". That would have been amazing.

[Tsa`ah]

Yeah, when Bellichek left the field before the game was over like the truly classless piece of shit he is, I knew I had done well in going against my usual "root for the AFC" bias to cheer for a team that's beaten my team in the Super Bowl.

Now for the season's worth of excuses from the Pats fans at school today. I'm just gonna keep on pointing out Bill walking off the field early, stupid fuck.

-TheE-

You should also note that it appeared he ran out on the field to congratulate Coughlin, but instead bitched to the officials that there was a single second left on the clock and the game wasn't over .... and then walked off the field.

It just shows what I've said the entire second half of the season ... Brady is over rated. Last night, as that awesome Pats line was picked apart by NY .... and Brady was knocked to the dirt over and over again ... he just couldn't recover. Double cover Moss, take Faulk out of the picture and he's just confused.

[Skeeter]

rofl

[Bobmuhthol]

<<You should also note that it appeared he ran out on the field to congratulate Coughlin, but instead bitched to the officials that there was a single second left on the clock and the game wasn't over .... and then walked off the field.>>

Because you were there, and you know what was said.

<<Double cover Moss, take Faulk out of the picture and he's just confused.>>

I think it had more to do with not having an offensive line that could hold the pocket. Especially since I, you know, actually watch Patriots games so I don't make retarded claims like "double cover Moss ... and he's just confused." Moss hasn't been a huge receiver for weeks.

[Latrinsorm]

Nominating Tsa`ah for the "PBJT of football" award.

[Sean of the Thread]

Patriots are just plain overrated. Yes I've said it all season feel free to go pull the posts.


18-1 and no superbowl = lamers.

[Tsa`ah]

Because you were there, and you know what was said.

No because I watched the game and say him ignore Coughlin's hand, point the clock and run his mouth in the direction of the official. Even the commentator's noted it.

<<Double cover Moss, take Faulk out of the picture and he's just confused.>>


I think it had more to do with not having an offensive line that could hold the pocket.

Hahaha ... Bob, don't be a dumbass. I commented that the Pat's O line was awesome and that wasn't sarcasm. I said Brady was over rated and it showed because the NY defense picked the line apart.


Especially since I, you know, actually watch Patriots games so I don't make retarded claims like "double cover Moss ... and he's just confused." Moss hasn't been a huge receiver for weeks.

You're right .. I said pick apart the line, put force Brady to make friends with the turf all games, and remove his big passing options (Faulk and Moss) ... and he's confused.

Way to completely not understand what I posted, and way to go using my words slightly out of context.

The point, in case you missed it, is that Brady can't perform with pressure on him. He had an outstanding season ... due to his line. The Giants picked that line apart last night. If they had a QB that is able to perform while being pressured (see QBs like Favre, Montana, McMahon, Young) ... they would have had the game.

[Tsa`ah]

Nominating Tsa`ah for the "PBJT of football" award.

Really ... then give us your wonderful insight on last night's game.

How did the Giants beat the Pats? Clearly it wasn't the outstanding offensive effort of the Giants.

[BigWorm]

Greatest team in the history of the world...

to come in second place

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Hahaha ... Bob, don't be a dumbass. I commented that the Pat's O line was awesome and that wasn't sarcasm. I said Brady was over rated and it showed because the NY defense picked the line apart.>>

I know what you said, and you're wrong.

<<The point, in case you missed it, is that Brady can't perform with pressure on him.>>

I could see how you would think that if you were a retard, but it had, again, a lot more to do with the fact that he had no pocket.

[Tsa`ah]

How am I wrong Bob? Please enlighten me and point out where I erred.

Right now you're using the logic of a kid who learned about sports playing Madden ... and it shows.

[Latrinsorm]

Really ... then give us your wonderful insight on last night's game.1) Every team double or triple covered Moss. The guy with the most receptions on the team is Welker for a reason.
2) Brady has been pressured in games before (c.f. Giants I, Eagles, Ravens). The Patriots scored 38, 31, and 27 points respectively in those games.

Why did the Giants win?
1) Belichik is an idiot and passed up a 48 yard field goal (IN A DOME) for a 4th and 13 attempt. I'm amazed nobody is talking about this.
2) 0 turnover margin. (Compare to the Patriots being +1, +3, +1 in the above games.)
3) Destroyed the running game. (Under 3 YPC. Only the Giants did that before in the abovementioned 3 games.)
4) Minimize penalties. (Baltimore had 13 for 100 yards, SB Giants had 4 for 36.)
5) Clock control / field position. (Only the Ravens had more TOP. In this game the Patriots started every drive in the second half from within their 30.)

[Tsa`ah]

1) Every team double or triple covered Moss. The guy with the most receptions on the team is Welker for a reason.

Yet the back up to that, Faulk, didn't have a spectacular game either.


2) Brady has been pressured in games before (c.f. Giants I, Eagles, Ravens). The Patriots scored 38, 31, and 27 points respectively in those games.

Brady has never been in a game where his O line was picked apart in such a manner. He was sacked 5 times ... and how many other meet and greets did he have with AZ turf?


Why did the Giants win?
1) Belichik is an idiot and passed up a 48 yard field goal (IN A DOME) for a 4th and 13 attempt. I'm amazed nobody is talking about this.

And yet they still would have lost by 1. People are talking about it, but they concede that a win is a win, be it by 1 point or 100 points.


2) 0 turnover margin. (Compare to the Patriots being +1, +3, +1 in the above games.)

Manning was picked once.


3) Destroyed the running game. (Under 3 YPC. Only the Giants did that before in the abovementioned 3 games.)

And destroying the passing game. As I implied, the NY defense won the game.


4) Minimize penalties. (Baltimore had 13 for 100 yards, SB Giants had 4 for 36.)

Which further compliments my assertion that Brady is over rated.


5) Clock control / field position. (Only the Ravens had more TOP. In this game the Patriots started every drive in the second half from within their 30.)

Which also furthers my assertion about the NY defense.

[Sean of the Thread]

Yeah going for it on that 4th and 13 was a little early. there was still 22 minutes left to play at that point.

That aside watching you girls argue football is amusing to me. Don't stop.

[Celephais]

And yet they still would have lost by 1. People are talking about it, but they concede that a win is a win, be it by 1 point or 100 points.
What was the final score? How much are FGs worth? If you're insinuating a two point conversion as a given...



Manning was picked once.
You didn't really get what he was saying there... MARGIN


... I would say Latrin's anaylsis was pretty good, certainly better than I could do.

[Tsa`ah]

What was the final score? How much are FGs worth? If you're insinuating a two point conversion as a given...

My bad ... no excuse. So they would have gone into OT ... if the attempt was good.


You didn't really get what he was saying there... MARGIN

He said 0 turnover margin.

[zhelas]

Pats looked tired.

[BigWorm]

Yeah going for it on that 4th and 13 was a little early. there was still 22 minutes left to play at that point.

That aside watching you girls argue football is amusing to me. Don't stop.

I totally would have gone for it in Madden. Field goals are fucking hard

[Sean of the Thread]

I totally would have gone for it in Madden. Field goals are fucking hard

Fucking agreed. They're even harder in EA NCAA.

[Kefka]

For those who missed it. Play of the game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e5BWzoyzVbc

[Bobmuhthol]

<<How am I wrong Bob? Please enlighten me and point out where I erred.

Right now you're using the logic of a kid who learned about sports playing Madden ... and it shows.>>

I guess, to be fair, I should respond to this with the same level of intellect and genuine football knowledge that you've demonstrated here.

Having said that, I only have one thing with which to retort: You're a fucking idiot.

[Tsa`ah]

Classic Bob .. just classic.

The best thing you could have done would have been not to reply since you've offered absolutely nothing else other than what was expected of you 2 years ago.

[Sean of the Thread]

For those who missed it. Play of the game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e5BWzoyzVbc

That play locked in his MVP vote.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<The best thing you could have done would have been not to reply since you've offered absolutely nothing else other than what was expected of you 2 years ago.>>


Manning was picked once.

He said 0 turnover margin.

You don't even know what the fuck a turnover is, rofl.

[TheEschaton]

For those who missed it. Play of the game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e5BWzoyzVbc

This is why I hate Joe Buck. He can take the most exciting play in a football season and make it sound merely mildly amusing.

-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

The best thing about Joe Buck was his microphone smack in the pepsi commercial.

[Tsa`ah]

You don't even know what the fuck a turnover is, rofl.


Bob ... a pick is a turnover. Same as a fumble recovered by the defense. Same as possession lost on downs.

[Celephais]

Bob ... a pick is a turnover. Same as a fumble recovered by the defense. Same as possession lost on downs.
So now put it all together... turnover margin is...?

[Sean of the Thread]

Bob ... a pick is a turnover. Same as a fumble recovered by the defense. Same as possession lost on downs.

Possession lost on downs is not a "turnover" when talking about margins.

Turnovers (in American football) are simply an interception or fumble ending in the defense gaining possession.

[Bobmuhthol]

Downs count as a turnover. That's why they call it a turnover on downs.

[Sean of the Thread]

Downs count as a turnover. That's why they call it a turnover on downs.

It's called a turnover. It doesn't count on the +/- margin.

[Bobmuhthol]

Oh, right, not on margins. My bad.

[Sean of the Thread]

Think of it as "Give aways/Take Aways".

[Latrinsorm]

Yet the back up to that, Faulk, didn't have a spectacular game either.Faulk has 0 TDs this year - he hasn't had any spectacular games. His Superbowl receiving performance is statistically comparable to any other regular season game.
Brady has never been in a game where his O line was picked apart in such a manner.You clearly didn't watch any of the aforementioned games. I'd say even the Indy game highlighted the offensive line's inadequacies (leg whip, anyone?).
Manning was picked once.Brady fumbled once. MENOS DOS MAS DOS IGUALES? (And yes, I recognize that dos is two, not one. It's a quote. Get over it.)
And destroying the passing game. As I implied, the NY defense won the game.Brady managed an 82.5 passer rating. Hardly destroyed.
Which further compliments my assertion that Brady is over rated. If by "compliment" you mean "has nothing to do with", sure.

[Latrinsorm]

p.s.

145 yards, 59.3% completion rate, 5.37 ypa, 1 TD, 0 int -> MVP
266 yards, 60.4% completion rate, 5.54 ypa, 1 TD, 0 int -> passing game DESTROYEZD

[Alfster]

p.s.

145 yards, 59.3% completion rate, 5.37 ypa, 1 TD, 0 int -> MVP
266 yards, 60.4% completion rate, 5.54 ypa, 1 TD, 0 int -> passing game DESTROYEZD

Their passing game was destroyed. Brady had no rhythm because he was hurried/sacked just about every single time he dropped back for a pass.

[Bobmuhthol]

Sacking a QB, as demonstrated by passer rating and the above numbers, doesn't affect the passing game. Brady was passing just fine... when he was getting good blocking.

[Latrinsorm]

The numbers speak for themselves (when added correctly).

[Tsa`ah]

Faulk has 0 TDs this year - he hasn't had any spectacular games. His Superbowl receiving performance is statistically comparable to any other regular season game.

Really? NFL.com lists him with a TD this year.

My point was that Faulk, in my observation, has been the sneaky bastard for the Pats this season. He pops up out of nowhere and gets tagged for crucial yardage ... that didn't happen last night.


You clearly didn't watch any of the aforementioned games. I'd say even the Indy game highlighted the offensive line's inadequacies (leg whip, anyone?).

Eh, Brady was sacked 21 times in the regular season, he shares the 18 spot with 3 other players (Peyton Manning, David Garrard, and Jason Campbell). Conversely he had 572 passing attempts in the regular season, that's the number 2 slot (top goes to Brees) and 398 completions 68.9% .... 4,806 yards.

I'm sorry ... without the O line that wouldn't have been possible. I'd say it was probably one of the best lines in NFL history.


Brady fumbled once. MENOS DOS MAS DOS IGUALES? (And yes, I recognize that dos is two, not one. It's a quote. Get over it.)

And?


Brady managed an 82.5 passer rating. Hardly destroyed.

When you manage a 117.6 rating on the season ... yes .. it is destroyed.


If by "compliment" you mean "has nothing to do with", sure.

Actually it does. Brady had fewer "gimme" yards (36) in this game than he has become accustom to.


145 yards, 59.3% completion rate, 5.37 ypa, 1 TD, 0 int -> MVP
266 yards, 60.4% completion rate, 5.54 ypa, 1 TD, 0 int -> passing game DESTROYEZD

Where do you get your stats from? Patriotsfanboy.com?

Manning went 19/34 for 255 yards with an interception, Brady went 29/48 for 266.

[Bobmuhthol]

Wow, what a complete surprise (no it isn't), a recent article was headlined: Patriots' offensive line fails Brady in Super Bowl.

<<And?>>

And you clearly still have no fucking idea what turnover margin means, what the fuck.

[TheEschaton]

He's talking about when Brady was named MVP.

[Hulkein]

Brady is the best QB in the league and isn't overrated. Giants defensive line was awesome and controlled the line of scrimmage making it hard for Brady to dominate the game like he usually does. That was the only way to beat them (which was the blueprint the Eagles laid down) and the Giants executed it beautifully as a defense.

[Latrinsorm]

Really? NFL.com lists him with a TD this year.A receiving TD. I made a mistake and only looked at rushing TDs. The point stands that he didn't have any spectacular games.
And?That makes the turnover margin zero. Do I have to get MSPaint out?
When you manage a 117.6 rating on the season ... yes .. it is destroyed.That's a pretty weak definition of "destroyed". When I hear "destroyed" I don't think "still in pretty good shape", but hey, that's apparently just me.

I'm all for saying Brady is overrated for lots of reasons (penalties not being one of them). Saying he gets "confused" when Moss gets double covered is not only asinine on its face but empirically disproven.

[BigWorm]

Brady is the best QB in the league and isn't overrated. Giants defensive line was awesome and controlled the line of scrimmage making it hard for Brady to dominate the game like he usually does. That was the only way to beat them (which was the blueprint the Eagles laid down) and the Giants executed it beautifully as a defense.

When did Peyton Manning retire? The numbers aren't even close. This is the only year that Brady has put up numbers like that and the first year that Manning has not. He's also won a Superbowl more recently.

[RichardCranium]

When did Peyton Manning retire? The numbers aren't even close. This is the only year that Brady has put up numbers like that and the first year that Manning has not. He's also won a Superbowl more recently.

qft

[Sean of the Thread]

Peyton should is a hall of famer just for his atomic sit up incident alone.


*and there is really no argument against Peyton being the best QB currently or of all time. So save it massholes.

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time]

Peyton should is a hall of famer just for his atomic sit up incident alone.


*and there is really no argument against Peyton being the best QB currently or of all time. So save it massholes.

That makes me think Sean shouldn't be allowed to talk about football. Peyton wouldn't even make the top three all-time quarterbacks on my list, much less anyone else's outside of Indy or southern Florida. Four GREAT seasons and one ring doesn't really push him into my top five, much less my top three.

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time]

Hell, with that said, you could compare Peyton Manning to Andre Reed. Reed has a ring, and had a number of ridiculously high quality seasons in what was a very balanced offense in Buffalo, yet lord knows he isn't even close to the top 3 receivers of all time.

[BigWorm]

What does Marino's resume look like. Is he not in the top five? He didn't even win a superbowl.

[TheEschaton]

Andre Reed doesn't have a ring...at least not with Buffalo.

Top 3 QBs ever:
Marino
Peyton
and I think Joe-Mo has been bumped to 3rd now. Sorry.

TB was propped up by the Steel Curtain. Even I know Jim (Kelly) isn't up there, though for sheer guts he should be. He beat Danny boy more often than not.

[Gan]

Top 5 QB's for me:
1. Marino
2. JoMo
3. Staubach
4. Farve
5. Bradshaw

No way in hell will I ever vote for Ellway to be on my top list. NO WAY!

[Skeeter]

tough to compare QBs across eras. should break it down into decades.

[Gan]

Agreed its not an apples to apples comparison with the advances and differences in play, rules, equipment, training, etc.

Thats still my list though. ;)

[BigWorm]

That's a reasonable list, but I probably wouldn't put Bradshaw up there for the reasons mentioned earlier. Other players I would consider candidates to be on the shortlist include John Elway, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Brett Favre, and Otto Graham off the top of my head.

Gan, you know Elway deserves to be ranked in the top 5.

[Gan]

That's a reasonable list, but I probably wouldn't put Bradshaw up there for the reasons mentioned earlier. Other players I would consider candidates to be on the shortlist include John Elway, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Brett Favre, and Otto Graham off the top of my head.

Gan, you know Elway deserves to be ranked in the top 5.

I'll put Tarkenton, Theisman, Young, and FlAikman up there before Elway. Blasphemy!

http://afroelich.com/Cubs_Blasphemy.jpg

[Ilvane]

Oh, Brady deserves to be on the list.:)

Angela

[TheEschaton]

Brady is a mediocre quarterback in a good system implemented by a diabolical coach who surely sold SOMETHING (quite possibly his capacity to be a genuine, loving human being) to the devil in exchange.

[Latrinsorm]

Brady is a very good quarterback, certainly in the top 5 of his generation. It's impossible to be the best quarterback ever. Of the past 5-10 years I'd only say with certainty Peyton and Favre ahead of Brady (and Favre's kind of an exception to the "generation" thing). It gets pretty murky in Brady's class: McNabb? Garcia? Hasselbeck?

[Sean of the Thread]

Garcia.. Mcnabb and Hasselbeck are all better than Brady thus far.

[BigWorm]

Palmer looks to be on his way up as well. You could put Culpepper up there, but his career nosedived quickly. Numbers wise, Mark Bulger has gaudier stats than Brady, but I think Brady would do at least as well in St. Louis' system.

[Bobmuhthol]

Brady is better than all of the aforementioned active QBs.

[BigWorm]

Brady is better than all of the aforementioned active QBs.

Maybe if he finds out you're supporting him on a teh intarweb, he'll let you suck his cock. Keep hoping!

[Bobmuhthol]

... the same could be said about anyone else talking about "the best QB" ...


Palmer looks to be on his way up as well. You could put Culpepper up there, but his career nosedived quickly. Numbers wise, Mark Bulger has gaudier stats than Brady,

You guys should have a foursome, LOL, since you love all of them homosexually!!

[Anebriated]

Brady is a very accurate passer, his system is designed for an accurate passer. How often does he actually have to leave the pocket?

[BigWorm]

Bob, you have any numbers to back that up?

[Bobmuhthol]

Yeah, a season passer rating of 117.2, which is 13.1 above #2: Roethlisberger. A season completion percentage of 68.9, which is 0.1 above #2: Chad Pennington. A season 4806 yards, which is 383 above #2: Drew Brees. A season average 8.3 yards per attempt, which is 0.2 above #2: Tony Romo. A season 50 touchdowns (NFL record), which is 14 above #2: Tony Romo. A season 300.6 yards per game, which is 24 above #2: Drew Brees. A season 240 first downs, which is 8 above #2: Drew Brees. Brady falls 0.1% short of Roethlisberger (who isn't mentioned as a notable QB anywhere in this thread) and had a season first down percentage of 41.5.

There seem to be a lot of numbers in Tom Brady's favor.

[Sean of the Thread]

Brady is good.

However there are better.

Brady also needs to stop being a whining vagina to gain any points in the poll.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<However there are better.>>


you have any numbers to back that up?

[Sean of the Thread]

<<However there are better.>>

I don't mind anyone's opinion on sports. Somebody could think Trent Dilfer is the greatest and that's their prerogative.

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time]

The only way Tom Brady could possibly get any better is to work on his arm strength, which he already has enough of. He has hit his ceiling, and a rather high ceiling at that, in terms of reading defenses, accuracy, and overall perception. His knowledge of his position is only matched amongst active quarterbacks by Favre, and I sincerely believe Peyton is behind by a decent margin.

In terms over overall quality, though, I'll put Carson Palmer above Tom Brady a year from now, when he finally gets his head back together. Rings or no rings, he's simply better. I will continue to give the snub to Manning in terms of #5 all time material, if only because he's looked like garbage without Marvin going for 100 yards on a week-by-week basis. Reggie Wayne can't possibly keep holding the team up on his own, and until Anthony Gonzales is ready to step up into the #2 receiving slot, Dallas Clark will be a huge variable in any success Manning has next season. If they don't get receiving help in the late rounds of the draft, they could have serious depth issues.

[Latrinsorm]

if only because he's looked like garbage without Marvin going for 100 yards on a week-by-week basis.You seriously want to claim that Harrison makes Manning look good and not massively the other way around?

[Skeeter]

I don't mind anyone's opinion on sports. Somebody could think Trent Dilfer is the greatest and that's their prerogative.

You've really got to get over that man crush on Dilfer.

[BigWorm]

Yeah, a season passer rating of 117.2, which is 13.1 above #2: Roethlisberger. A season completion percentage of 68.9, which is 0.1 above #2: Chad Pennington. A season 4806 yards, which is 383 above #2: Drew Brees. A season average 8.3 yards per attempt, which is 0.2 above #2: Tony Romo. A season 50 touchdowns (NFL record), which is 14 above #2: Tony Romo. A season 300.6 yards per game, which is 24 above #2: Drew Brees. A season 240 first downs, which is 8 above #2: Drew Brees. Brady falls 0.1% short of Roethlisberger (who isn't mentioned as a notable QB anywhere in this thread) and had a season first down percentage of 41.5.

There seem to be a lot of numbers in Tom Brady's favor.

One year != career. This is the only year Brady has ever put up those numbers. 25% of his career TD total came this year.

[BigWorm]

Yeah, a season passer rating of 117.2, which is 13.1 above #2: Roethlisberger. A season completion percentage of 68.9, which is 0.1 above #2: Chad Pennington. A season 4806 yards, which is 383 above #2: Drew Brees. A season average 8.3 yards per attempt, which is 0.2 above #2: Tony Romo. A season 50 touchdowns (NFL record), which is 14 above #2: Tony Romo. A season 300.6 yards per game, which is 24 above #2: Drew Brees. A season 240 first downs, which is 8 above #2: Drew Brees. Brady falls 0.1% short of Roethlisberger (who isn't mentioned as a notable QB anywhere in this thread) and had a season first down percentage of 41.5.

There seem to be a lot of numbers in Tom Brady's favor.

Alright, let's even compare Brady's 2007 to Manning's 2004 season and all the numbers you cite.

Passer Rating: Brady - 117.2, Manning 121.0.
Season Completion Average: Brady 68.9, Manning 67.7
Yard Per Attempt: Brady 8.3, Manning 9.2
Touchdowns: Brady 50, Manning 49.

Can you argue that those numbers are significantly different in Brady's favor? He has one more touchdown and a 1% higher completion percentage, where Manning averages a yard more per attempt and has a 4 point higher passer rating.

So each of their best seasons are pretty close.

I'll give you the career comparison after dinner. Manning blows Brady out of the water.

[Bobmuhthol]

That kind of defeats the purpose of rating QBs if you're just going to look at career totals in a "right now" context. Tom Brady IS the best active quarterback in the NFL no matter what his previous numbers were (even though they were still good).

For all intents and purposes, Brady has effectively played in 7 seasons. He won 3 Super Bowls, so for the people who argue that not winning a ring is an indication of lack of skill, there goes that argument. Brady is nowhere near retiring, and his stats have been inconsistent but never subpar. And now, he's the best quarterback there is. Hasselbeck doesn't compare in 2007 and he's still behind Brady over his career in the same amount of time.

You can say that there have been better QBs, active and inactive, than pre-2007 Brady, and I'll agree with you. But no one comes close to matching him now, and you can't take that away by saying he wasn't always the best.

[Latrinsorm]

Tom Brady IS the best active quarterback in the NFL no matter what his previous numbers were (even though they were still good).Why not look at the last game played then, rather than the last season? Manning (Eli this time) clearly had a better game in the Super Bowl, he must currently be the best active quarterback, right?

[Bobmuhthol]

You'd have to be a fucking idiot to say that the difference between consecutive seasons and the difference between consecutive intraseason games are the same thing, and I like to think that you're not a fucking idiot.

PS. Postseason inherently doesn't count, unless you also want to claim that there are 2 quarterbacks in the NFL.

[Latrinsorm]

So it turns out Bob's talking about something completely different. NM.

[BigWorm]

Kevin Faulk was 3 superbowl wins so he must be the best running back ever

[Bobmuhthol]

Hey, interestingly enough, that's a complete counterexample of my arguments. You actually agree with me; good job.

[BigWorm]

Ok, maybe Brady is as good as Hasselback, but you haven't even addressed Manning