What shield should he use?

[thefarmer]

Got a friend that's asked me about what shield type to use, and seeing as how I haven't used them since maybe '98 or 99, and what with the changes, I'll ask you folks.

He's a ranger, hurls from hiding, 1x dodge, 1x shield.

Currently he's got one of those enhancive bucklers from the winter caravan, but isn't sure what to upgrade to.

Any help?

[Stanley Burrell]

Who 1x shields?

Um, anything from tower to buckler.

1x shields?

[Stanley Burrell]

What's his dodging like, because it gets nerfed %30 with towers.

[Stanley Burrell]

Quizza-quizza-quiggity-quizza-Quizno's-question mark.

[Stanley Burrell]

I've been playing ZWOK way too fucking long.

Honestly, can it to .5x and invest in shields or switch it up to steroid his dodge and give him a little Ranger shield.

[thefarmer]

Can someone decode Stanley-speak?

[diethx]

Can someone decode Stanley-speak?

Not worth the time.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

The less shield ranks you have, the better smaller shields are for you. My warrior only 1x's in shields, and from tower to buckler, he gains about 45 DS, each step gaining a little DS along the way in offensive.

I believe the bigger shields are better for those with lots of shield ranks.

[Stanley Burrell]

Can someone decode Stanley-speak?

I wouldn't really take any advice from Bill/Tayvin about shielding one's self.

Also, what diethx says because she knows the down low. The up high. The middle. She is like a space time goddess. Soulpieced keeps being a nancy and ditching his homies when he gets a bad angle in ZWOK :mad:

[Latrinsorm]

Having equal shield and dodge training = use a small shield.

[FinisWolf]

What's the best shield size for Block and DS when you .5X shield and 0X dodge?

I am guessing small, but could easily be incorrect.

Finis

[Latrinsorm]

If you have no dodge, you have no (or very little) Dodge DS to hurt with a larger shield. You'd be best suited with a tower shield, but it's worth noting that the flat penalties for having larger shields may belie this advice in the earlier levels.

[Stunseed]

< Currently he's got one of those enhancive bucklers from the winter caravan, but isn't sure what to upgrade to. >

I downgraded to this shield to use in OTF. But a buckler is the mechanically correct shield to use to maxiumize performance. Also worthy to note, somewhere on these boards it's shown that going from 1 to 2x in shield in the same setup yields like 20 DS or some bullcrap.

[Celephais]

Depends on armor and spell ranks too:
From a post about THW vs Shield use... but gives you the info on armor/shield size/dodge DS.



Mobility (618): +20 [102] dodge ranks [Ranger 100 spell ranks]
Blurs (911): +20 dodge ranks

Both of these are readily availible.

These 40 [122] ranks of dodge have the following DS benefit given the following circumstances (I'm unsure of rounding):

Dodge DS
Offensive Stance (0.75)
-Augmented Chain (0.920)
--Medium Shield (0.70)
--- (0.483000) * 40 [122] = +19.320 [58.92600] DS
--Tower Shield (0.50)
--- (0.345000) * 40 [122] = +13.800 [42.09000] DS
-Full Plate (0.825)
--Medium Shield (0.70)
--- (0.433125) * 40 [122] = +17.325 [52.84125] DS
--Tower Shield (0.50)
--- (0.309375) * 40 [122] = +12.375 [37.74375] DS
Defensive Stance (1.00)
-Augmented Chain (0.920)
--Medium Shield (0.70)
--- (0.644000) * 40 [122] = +25.760 [78.56200] DS
--Tower Shield (0.50)
--- (0.460000) * 40 [122] = +18.400 [56.12000] DS
-Full Plate (0.825)
--Medium Shield (0.70)
--- (0.577500) * 40 [122] = +23.100 [70.45500] DS
--Tower Shield (0.50)
--- (0.412500) * 40 [122] = +16.500 [50.32500] DS

Shield DS (0.667)
Offensive Stance (0.5)
-Medium Shield (1.0)
-- (0.3333)
-Tower Shield (1.3)
-- (0.4333)
Defensive Stance (1.0)
-Medium Shield (1.0)
-- (0.6667)
-Tower Shield (1.3)
-- (0.8667)

Parry DS
Offensive Stance (0.2)
Defensive Stance (0.7)

So in Stun's case dodge ranks provide 0.483/0.644 DS per rank, and the shield ranks provided 0.333/0.667 DS per rank. There are no diminishing returns on defensive skill ranks. I would say that since offensive DS is more important than defensive DS that 1x/1x will producer better DS than 2x/0x Shield/Dodge.

For Bigby’s case (adding parry), you’re considering 3x/2.4x/2x vs 0x/3.4x/3x (shield/dodge/parry) essentially. So in the shield case, lets find out what shield is best.
Offensive (shield/dodge)
Tower: 3 * 0.4333 + 2.4 * 0.309 = 2.042 DS per level
Large: 3 * 0.3833 + 2.4 * 0.371 = 2.040
Medium: 3 * 0.3333 + 2.4 * 0.433 = 2.039 DS per level
Small: 3 * 2833 + 2.4 * 0.495 = 2.038 DS per level

I’m not going to do defensive because it’ll favor larger shields more and Tower already won (a 0.5 jump for shields vs a 0.25 jump for dodge).
Defensive Tower
3 * 0.8667 + 2.4 * 0.4125 = 3.6 DS per level

So the OHE/Shield plan favors Tower shields, and when we add on the parry DS we get:
Offensive: 2.442 DS per level
Defensive: 5.0 DS per level

As for the dodge plan we get Parry DS of 0.6/2.1 DS per level Off/Def.

Lets add on the dodge DS
Offensive: 3.4 * 0.61875 + 0.6 = 2.704 DS per level
Defensive: 3.4 * 0.825 + 2.1 = 4.905 DS per level

This all assumes you’ve got blurs and mobility constantly, so in offensive stance 3x dodge and a 2H weapon actually produce more DS. But how EBP suffers I'm not sure...

But you'll always lose out when you add in the flat bonuses for the shield, especially a 10x.

[FinisWolf]

If you have no dodge, you have no (or very little) Dodge DS to hurt with a larger shield. You'd be best suited with a tower shield, but it's worth noting that the flat penalties for having larger shields may belie this advice in the earlier levels.

Thanks Latrinsorm. I do get blurs self spelled. I also noted in a post following yours that armor also matters, and this char has zero armor ranks. I think in this case it would still be tower if I understand what has been shared.

Finis

[BigWorm]

From my experience, the difference between a small, medium, and large shield isn't much if you're 1x, even at cap. Don't have any experience with tower shields though. I would recommend not worrying much about it.

[Celephais]

Thanks Latrinsorm. I do get blurs self spelled. I also noted in a post following yours that armor also matters, and this char has zero armor ranks. I think in this case it would still be tower if I understand what has been shared.

Finis
Stance is also important; At cap, single trained the flat penalty of a tower shield will actually be equal to the extra bonus DS the tower shield gives you, and then you'll have the extra weight and extra penalty to dodge bonus (provided by spells/stats), although the extra EvP will be worth it. In defensive stance the tower shield provideds an extra 10 DS.

Armor isn't so much important to your shield choice, as it is to your dodge DS, assuming you're in full leathers you'll have no penalty (half a percent, no idea on rounding) to dodge from armor anyway.

[FinisWolf]

Cool, thanks all.

Finis

[thefarmer]

Appreciate the advice, too.