Looking for help rebuilding Rogue after years away.

[TommyTheCat]

I have a level 39 rogue who I originally setup as a magical rogue training every other level(didn't start off right but got up to 410 and 107 training every other levels) and am considering keeping magics or maybe not but am having a real hard time finding guides on how to build characters in the new system.

More than likely at my low level if I were to work magics I'd just stop at 410 but just looking for some feedback and maybe point me to some good resources :(

Thanks guys

-TtC

[Gan]

Browse through the rogue folder. The search option can be specifically used for that folder by clicking on the [search this thread] button.

Lots of ideas there that probably wont be rehashed in general here. Once you have some ideas, ask specific questions and folks will probably respond pretty quickly.

My rogue experience was mostly sword/board and archery (up to level 89). There are some that do the magical rogue thing so you're looking in the right spot.

[Kitsun]

There aren't many guides because it is hard to go wrong. If you just came back(Pre-GSIV), you'll have a month of instant migration on the GOALS page.

How many TPs you have to fiddle with for picking, skinning, etc will be determined by what kind of hunting style you want to support.

While spellrogues fell out in popularity, now you have extremely viable options in archer/picker, sword/board, TWC, THW builds. From my experience, archer/pickers seem to have many more free TPs to shove into spells than the other choices.

Essentially you'll want:
Armor 1x to 1.5x per level till you hit the AsG you want
2x Dodge
1x CM (less if going archery)
2x Weapon Skill
0x to 1x Shield (Depending on route)
2x Ambush
1x to 1.5x PT
2x to 3x hiding
2x Perception
Miscellanious amounts of climbing/swimming
Choose whether or not you want to pick and how much.

[TommyTheCat]

Yeah dodging, parrying, blocking doesn't mean anything to me right now. They changed the mana system and I don't know if the success of e-wave is curved by training in different stuff lol.

I would really like to hold 410 @ level 39 where I am now but logging in I have 40 mana when I used to have like 120 at this point when I was playing before. Because I wouldn't be wearing heavy armor w/ spells in that case I guess that would warrant a heavy dose in dodging?

I don't care too much about locksmithing, I would probably do least rank a level because it's so cheap, in my last life I had good disarming because I could just pop boxes with 407 or whatever....

Thanks :)

-TtC

[Kitsun]

Forgot about that. You now start with some piddly amount of mana then you gain more from training in Harness Power. It'll give you 3 mana per rank.

[Gan]

Dont forget to reset your stats during this free migration period. That will determine your training point availability.

http://home.mchsi.com/~cphillips73/StatCruncher/StatCruncher.html

[TommyTheCat]

Well I went out last night after rerolling, why the hell don't things die? How do crits work now? I went out smashing some stone gargoyles and rolling +300 hitting things in head they wouldn't necessarily die. Back in the day with my Fel Hafter I could roll +120's and spray brains everywhere :(

-TtC

[Warriorbird]

BIIG Ambush change a bit back.

[Lucas]

They changed GSIV to more tedium and more leveling time. The longer you play the greater you pay. Thus, Crits have been randomized, so you won't neccesarily get one shot guaranteed kills even with massive rolls.

I'm sorely disappointed about the Paladin profession. They just said to themselves..."Oh they'll like BIG AS's so we'll give them that." Sorry Simu people aren't stupid they realize it's just glam and flash and no substance. Then they wonder why so many people left after the conversion. Fixskills is just idiotic, "It made what people have worked for years worthless in a instant" If they can make fixskills/fixstats much more difficult to get I would be happy with that.

[Gan]

As lucas mentioned. All crits have been randomized whether its from your ambush skill or the weighting of your weaponry. Its now random on a sliding scale of intensity rather than a constant based on training and or weighting.

Really bit the younger rogues in the ass. As my rogue got older I found I would have a greater instance of one shot kills so the randomization still takes ambush skill into account somewhere, but its still not a guaranteed thing if you're going to expect a one shot kill everytime when combining ambush training with a crit weighted weapon.

[TommyTheCat]

Just seems ridiculous when you end up with over a +200 roll, crit weighted weapon, hit the area you're looking for and it creates a minor injury with 82 ranks of Ambushing.

I'm hoping Stone Gargoyles have a very high armor rating relative to other creatures which is why it's so ridiculous.

-TtC

[Gan]

If stone gargoyles are any semblance to Illoke (made of stone) then ambushing and expecting an instant crit is not plausable.

I hated hunting Illoke with my rogue for that very reason. I can remember many a time of sweeping or legging them to get the head reachable only to have to ambush it several times from hiding in order to get the crit kill.

Run some frequency tests on softer armor targets and see what you come up with.

[TommyTheCat]

Here's my fucking point

You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a fel hafted vultite waraxe at a stone gargoyle!
AS: +270 vs DS: -7 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +62 = +368
... and hit for 79 points of damage!
Eye crushed by a hard blow to the face!
Roundtime: 6 sec.

[Kitsun]

I would quit trying to smack stone things and move to something more squishy.

[Asha]

Shan, man!

[TommyTheCat]

Eh I tried Shan forever ago and would get swarmed, disarmed, and find myself as a ghost weeping. I really want to get back to Vornavis but feel that I could use some company.

[CrystalTears]

Shan are not ideal for rogues. They're actually more difficult than they were before. If you're a few levels over them it's not so bad, but they tend to swarm a lot, mixed in with the arachnids. They're... um.... fun. :D

[Asha]

:( sorry.
Go to RR instead then. I had a blast there with my ranger at 40.

[McWhanger]

around 40, you could also try sheru, they wear robes, and initiates are only 40 or 41. I've got a war-rogue build going that i'm extremely happy with:

(at level 53), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 155 55
Combat Maneuvers...................| 210 110
Edged Weapons......................| 210 110
Ambush.............................| 210 110
Physical Fitness...................| 155 55
Dodging............................| 210 110
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 105 25
Stalking and Hiding................| 210 110
Perception.........................| 155 55
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10


No picking, but I don't care much about that, free'd up a lot of extra points to get the spells and cman up :) I open ambush a lot, and even with no crit weighting, I get plenty of one or two shot kills, even hunting over my level. Prone and me ambushing from hiding? game over.

[TommyTheCat]

around 40, you could also try sheru, they wear robes, and initiates are only 40 or 41. I've got a war-rogue build going that i'm extremely happy with:

(at level 53), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 155 55
Combat Maneuvers...................| 210 110
Edged Weapons......................| 210 110
Ambush.............................| 210 110
Physical Fitness...................| 155 55
Dodging............................| 210 110
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 105 25
Stalking and Hiding................| 210 110
Perception.........................| 155 55
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10


No picking, but I don't care much about that, free'd up a lot of extra points to get the spells and cman up :) I open ambush a lot, and even with no crit weighting, I get plenty of one or two shot kills, even hunting over my level. Prone and me ambushing from hiding? game over.

Any reason for training in arcane symbols/magic item use? Like to be able to read scrolls or more practical use? What armor do you use? Good redux?

-TtC

[Stanley Burrell]

Good redux?

Say what now?

[TommyTheCat]

Well back in day I was mystically magically ambushing things and my redux was either non existent or made no difference.

I respecced tonight because I'm still in my 30 day transition period with a similar build but I can't afford doubling in CM but I'm only like 8 ranks short of being maxed at level. I have Surge maxed along w/ WSPEC1 and 2 shadow mastery ranks. Seems to be working well w/ strength and surge on swinging for over 300.

Things are so much different :( I really need to get somewhere other than Gargoyles more frequently as it's depressing dropping 400 rolls without a crit kill.

-TtC

[McWhanger]

Any reason for training in arcane symbols/magic item use? Like to be able to read scrolls or more practical use? What armor do you use? Good redux?

-TtC

MIU for haste imbeds, very useful for clearing a swarm of thraks after I've ewaved em. I guess AS is a remnant from when I did have picking for disarming scarabs, I dont actually read scrolls anymore, so I guess I could drop it, but I probably wont, Ive got a couple phoen's scrolls that are nice in a pinch. Right now, I'm wearing brig since it's much easier to cast in, but I really miss my hauberk, definitely need to get some padding on my armor. As for the redux, it has also gone way down since I picked up 410, I havent even bothered to calculate it, I know its there, but it aint great.

All in all, I'm very happy with the build though, extremely effective vs pyros, thraks and wind wraiths. Except for the picking, it is what I have in my minds eye for how a rogue should be able to roll :)

EDIT:
Oh, and this is what I've got for my CMANs, seems good so far, but I'm sure it could stand tweaking:

Combat Movement cmovement 5
Shadow Mastery smastery 4
Silent Strike silentstrike 2
Specialization I wspec1 5
Surge of Strength surge 5

surge and wspec because I love AS, smas at 4 for the 2 second hide, cmove at 5 is cheap and gives a decent little bonus to DS, silent strike is there simply because its cool as shit to kill stuff without coming out of hiding, or assassinate someone without revealing your identity :)

[Gibreficul]

Here's my fucking point

You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a fel hafted vultite waraxe at a stone gargoyle!
AS: +270 vs DS: -7 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +62 = +368
... and hit for 79 points of damage!
Eye crushed by a hard blow to the face!
Roundtime: 6 sec.

If you weren't an idiot, you'd use PUNCTURE weapons on eyes. You'd use crush weapons on the head and neck. Trust me, it's good advice.


As for a magical rogue build. It's easy enough, and still viable. You just have to know where to shave skills ranks from 2x down to 1x, and let your spells suppliment your hunting style.

[AestheticDeath]

For constructs and stone things, you cannot crit kill them. If you still want to hunt them, dont bother hiding, unless they are hurting you and thats your defense. Just open ambush to the abdomen or back or wherever it was that you can get a lot higher amount of HP damage. Pretty sure that high endroll you did to the head would have done 40+ more damage on the back/abs.

Scroll reading is needed to help with disarming scarabs, and there is a place in the misty chamber where you read runes to go through, which requires a certain amount of scroll reading. 15 ranks or more I think. And I think you have to have that to get to the acolytes/initiates someone was talking about.

I think darkstone has some things around your level. Kiramon, and some older things you might be able to hunt.

Through those runes I talked about and another puzzle or two, you could go hunt lesser vruul, and myklians.

Honestly though if you are not just stuck with OHE/ambush tactics. You should give archery a try. Its one of the preferred styles for rogues now I think. You don't need as much CM, no shield, and you have more TPs for spells or picking, or both.

[TommyTheCat]

If you weren't an idiot, you'd use PUNCTURE weapons on eyes. You'd use crush weapons on the head and neck. Trust me, it's good advice.


As for a magical rogue build. It's easy enough, and still viable. You just have to know where to shave skills ranks from 2x down to 1x, and let your spells suppliment your hunting style.

This is my new favorite guy right here lol. Now if I said I constantly go for eyes because it's the most pwn thing to do then yeah you could reasonably question my sense but hammering someone in eye square on from an ambush with such force should count(and always did back in the day). I still have ok success ambushing and one shotting Gargoyles but the power of which I'm hitting and at times they don't drop makes me sad :(

My new problem is I want to use garotte to see it's effectiveness and fun but I don't see much published on where one could find a good wire or a garotte itself(I bet I could find a scarf but I'm not interested in itching someone's neck to death) :(

Any suggestions where and stuff?

I am kind of stuck on OHE style of fighting, I enjoy the ambush and that style of combat as well as I am equipped for that(costs of things is ridiculous now).

-TtC

[Gan]

Garroting in the field can leave you too exposed to counter attack by other foes - its not an instantaneous process (unlike Gremloks).

I've seen some platinum wires and other cool looking garrote's for sale recently here on the PC. They are subject to breaking, so I wouldnt invest too heavily in one.