Teachers Rules Questionable?

[Drisco]

Okay, So today in class I got kicked out of Accounting because my teacher is a bitch and has no clue how to teach....

Okay a lie but, I believe I got kicked out of the class for a stupid reason.

We have a Work book and a Text book. Everyday she talks for a few minutes and assigns pages out of the work book. If anyone has taken accounting the work you get is like 5-10 pages. So I usually don't do any of the work, I copy down the answers from the book she supplies at the front of the room to check your work. Then I study how she came up with the answers and how to do it. Keep in mind that none of the work we do in class is for marks, only for our benefit because you learn from repetition. I then try some problems after studying the answer and see if I understand the concept. I learn better this way. I have never cheated on anything in this class and have a 94%.

Today though she sees what I am doing and asks to see my work. I explain how I do the work by copying and study the answers to find the formulas. She then goes on about how if everyone else in the class has to do the work then I should to. I then remind her that the work is all for out benefit and to help us learn. They are not worth marks but purely help us understand the concepts by repetition and asking questions. She then tells me that I am wrong and If everyone else has to do the work so do I. She says I am a student like the rest and I do not set the rules on how the class operates. She then asks me to leave.

Now. I am confused, I know I am like the rest of the class but if people want to get the answers, then study how she came up with the answers by looking at the work and then learn like this is there really a problem? You give us a test we have never seen it clearly shows I understand how to do the work by using my method of studying.

Why penalize someone who learns differently from others?

[Khariz]

If she never said you cannot look at the answers before working them out yourself, I don't see the problem.

In her ideal world, she may like things to happen in a certain order, but that's tough cookies. She should not supply that book if she didn't want what you do to be a possibility. That would force all students to learn her way.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Why penalize someone who learns differently from others?>>

Because it's her class, so she has complete authority over it.

Once again, I disagree with Khariz. OMG!!

[Khariz]

<<Why penalize someone who learns differently from others?>>

Because it's her class, so she has complete authority over it.

Once again, I disagree with Khariz. OMG!!

He's not claiming she doesn't have the *authority* to discipline him. He's asking why she should.

You have a comprehension and logic problem today.

[Bobmuhthol]

Having complete authority -> not needing a reason. The class is not a democracy, so no explanations are needed for the teacher's actions. I sometimes assume people can understand meanings, and I am sometimes incorrect.

[diethx]

Go talk to the department chair about the problem. If she never said before that you couldn't look at the answers first, and if she doesn't collect the work to grade or whatever (so you're not cheating), then she really had no right to kick you out. College is a bit different than high school, which is where i'd expect something like this to happen.

However, if you were arguing to the point of being disruptive and not asking passively like you made it sound, then she did have a right to kick you out.

[Drisco]

Once she told me I couldn't look at the answers I began to ask why. There should be no reason why I shouldn't be aloud to study the way I have been. It obviously is working for me. Why should she make me do it a different way and have me not understand it?

A) I do it my way understand it better and get better marks.

B) I do it her way and I don't understand as good.

As a teacher it is her job to help the student learn in the best way not go on a power trips and pretty much say my way or the highway.

[crazymage]

Sell her Xyelin that'll teach the Bitch!

[Katt]

If you are in college you should tell her to go fuck herself. You pay for the class... you are responsible for really getting the shit in your head and retaining it.


If you are in Highschool or under.... Respect your teacher and do as she says. If you are really worried about marks/grades, do it her way in school...take it home and do it your way for practice.

I did kind of what you are doing in highschool with math and wish I hadn't. I had to learn a lot of things over. Finding the answer yourself can really help drilling it in rather than working it backwards. Plus in the real world... how many times are they going to GIVE you the answer first?

[diethx]

If you are in college you should tell her to go fuck herself. You pay for the class... you are responsible for really getting the shit in your head and retaining it.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, and if you tell a professor to go fuck themselves you can count on not doing very well in that class. Even in college, the professors are in charge of running the classes how they choose, and that's universal. The difference between college and high school is that in college, students are treated like adults and a compromise can usually be reached amicably. I'll say it again, talk to the department chair.

[Katt]

Honestly I didn't mean to actually tell her to go "fuck herself" and figured most proffessors wouldn't really care if it's just class work etc. I haven't even really had any that let us do work like that in class, was usually assigned out of class and not even needed to be turned in. The tests are what counted. Things could be different though I have no idea. I've only had experience with one college.

My main point was that in RL you aren't always going to be given the answers. You should learn to do it the right way.

[Sean of the Thread]

Fucking stop being a whiny bitch and do what you're asked.


It's that simple.. you're not the John Lennon of education. It's her class and quite honestly you're lucky to be in it.

[Drisco]

Ooooo. I see now. You didn't go to school, explains hell of a lot.

[Stanley Burrell]

Your professor is always right. You have nothing to gain by going on some personal crusade no matter how stupid a university employee is. It is never, ever worth it.

Don't talk shit behind their backs after lectures either, no matter how burning the rage. Wait until you and your friends are literally buildings away before you stand on the soap box. Value a plastic smile like your life was forfeit without it.

And if you're in high school, take the time to be argumentative with your superiors now, because you absolutely must not at a collegiate level.

[Gan]

You need to visit with her during her office hours and explain your methodology. Then you need to clarify if you're dismissed for the rest of the semester or if it was a one class bannination.

If you're not satisfied with the results of the meeting then take it up with the department chair. After that you need to either DROP the class or STFU.

As Bob said, college courses are NOT a democracy.

[Sean of the Thread]

Ooooo. I see now. You didn't go to school, explains hell of a lot.

Obviously I have... if someone disagrees with my post it just goes to show that THEY do not know wtf they're talking about.


As stated courses are NOT a democracy.

You've got to learn to learn.

[TheEschaton]

Education should always be a democracy, a shared experience.

Slap that bitch silly.

Especially in math-based subjects, alternative thinking is how to learn it. I never learned math the way I was taught it, I came up with my own methods. Last I checked, I had enough college credits in math by the end of 10th grade to never take math again, despite being a comp sci major in college. My teachers let me learn the way I learned best.

[Gan]

Education should always be a democracy, a shared experience.

Slap that bitch silly.

Especially in math-based subjects, alternative thinking is how to learn it. I never learned math the way I was taught it, I came up with my own methods. Last I checked, I had enough college credits in math by the end of 10th grade to never take math again, despite being a comp sci major in college. My teachers let me learn the way I learned best.

I bet you dont take that approach in law school.

:lol:

[Kranar]

Education should always be a democracy, a shared experience.

Slap that bitch silly.

Especially in math-based subjects, alternative thinking is how to learn it. I never learned math the way I was taught it, I came up with my own methods. Last I checked, I had enough college credits in math by the end of 10th grade to never take math again, despite being a comp sci major in college. My teachers let me learn the way I learned best.


I don't know how other disciplines are taught but I can definitely agree that in math/computer science, students are often encouraged to find different ways of learning once they get to university.

In high school math I remember teachers always trying to shove their way of learning down your throat and you were basically just a sponge who memorized whatever came out of a teacher's mouth and then you squeezed it all out during a test. Once you hit university, that kind of spoon feeding should stop.

[TheEschaton]

Actually, I do, Gan, which is why my grades are only average. ;)

My teachers ask for rote black letter law, I question why the hell such a law would exist in the first place.

-TheE-

[Keller]

What's funny is that I have very good grades and I bet TheE actually knows more than I do. I've just mastered their silly law school game.

[Latrinsorm]

My main point was that in RL you aren't always going to be given the answers. You should learn to do it the right way.If he's learning the method, there's nothing inferior about seeing the answer and working towards it. If we were talking about a science course, I'd very much recommend not relying on that as it's very important in science to know how to discover the methods, but we're talking about an accounting course.

[Sean of the Thread]

Bottom line is follow the fucking rules when it comes to schools.


ez sauce

[TheEschaton]

Follow the line if you want good grades. Question the norm if you actually want to learn.

Luckily, the U.S. Attorney's office don't think my grades are that bad, I have an interview with them this Friday, woot woot.

[Katt]

If he's learning the method, there's nothing inferior about seeing the answer and working towards it. If we were talking about a science course, I'd very much recommend not relying on that as it's very important in science to know how to discover the methods, but we're talking about an accounting course.

If he did this to learn the method then he should be able to do it and should do so and make his teacher happy.

Science I feel is one way he could actually work problems backwards depending on what field he went into. There are tons of things that we know the result of but don't know why. However in math/accounting there isn't more than one right answer usually.

I agree that finding different ways to learn is a good idea. But he needs to get the right procedure down or one that doesn't require that he has the asnwer.

He can't just understand it, he needs to learn it and drill it in his head. He needs to practice so he can work the problem out in a timely fashion.
Homework/classwork is practice and practice makes perfect.

So what if he can understand a problem faster or better knowing the answer first? That isn't a good way of learning because he won't be able to use that method if he really gets a job. Yes find a method that works for you but also find a method that is practical and that can continue to work for you once you are out of school.


No reason he can't double check his answer by working backwards after he tries to find an answer on his own.

[Tsa`ah]

Accounting is mathematics, which is scientific to some extent.

My math grades in HS suffered because I would show my work, and although the answer I arrived at was correct, it wasn't the method the teachers instructed.

In college I breezed through the required math and my methodology didn't impede my grades.

Unfortunately in HS, there's not much you can do. If your teacher required you to adhere to the plan they have laid out ... adhere or accept the consequences.

On the argument that repetition is required ... that's just false for some people. Sure, maybe a class or two ... but then let's move on. Boring students to death is a sure fire way for them not to learn.

[Misun]

Most professors are agreeable to alternative ways of learning IF you explain to them ahead of time your methods and reasons for doing so. The key is communication and respect for each other. If you go into a class and set up an appointment with your professor to talk to them about your ways of learning certain subjects, they often work with you. I have never met a professor who wanted to see me fail and was always willing to work with me. Other than that...if you have a documented learning plan you can use that to your advantage. I worked for my department in college and helped many students to use various methods with learning. That way your rights are protected and the professor cannot deny you.

If this isn't the case though, I would first try to speak with the professor like an adult and try to come up with something that works for both of you.

But also as mentioned before, you aren't going to be given the answers once you are out of school so you might want to see if she has any suggestions to help you learn the way she is teaching.

And bitch or not....it's not their job to fail students, that only looks bad for them.

[diethx]

I agree that finding different ways to learn is a good idea. But he needs to get the right procedure down or one that doesn't require that he has the asnwer.

I don't think you're quite understanding the situation. He's doing things backwards now, because it's easier for him to learn the method of completing said problem when looking at it in reverse. Once he learns the method, like Latrinsorm said, he'll be able to do any similar problems without the answer. This is how he is "trying to get the right procedure down". He isn't expecting to always be given the answer, because if there's already an answer in the workplace, there will be no reason to have him working at all.

[girdhar]

Hi,
Indeed this happed to me also when I was in high school .
My opinion over your problem ar e as follows .
1) every one has his own right to tackle the things. It is not necessary that every one can understand the things or lesson the same way others do .
2)teacher may be correct if she thinks that your act may change the views of other students .
3)You can study the things the way you want but don't try to impose those thing in the class or teacher.
4)At last neglect (if you can ) the teachers remark and continue your own way of study and show her with example that how you were correct at your place.
I am sorry if I am wrong somewhere.

[Stanley Burrell]

Hmmm. Upgrades.

[Stanley Burrell]

Hi,
Indeed this happed to me also when I was in high school .
My opinion over your problem ar e as follows .
1) every one has his own right to tackle the things. It is not necessary that every one can understand the things or lesson the same way others do .
2)teacher may be correct if she thinks that your act may change the views of other students .
3)You can study the things the way you want but don't try to impose those thing in the class or teacher.
4)At last neglect (if you can ) the teachers remark and continue your own way of study and show her with example that how you were correct at your place.
I am sorry if I am wrong somewhere.

Which continent and/or planet are you posting out of, since I can't ax/s your IP?

[TheEschaton]

I got a PM from this "bot" last night being like "Hey, are you Indian? I'm from India!" No advertisements, thoguh.

Weird. Are spammers now hiring Indians to troll forums to put up real posts and then advertise?

[Apotheosis]

I would just speak with her during her office hours and see if you can't come up with a compromise of some sort.

Most professors are reasonable (you might have gotten an unreasonable one).

If you graded work is B average or above, than she should accept that you have a different learning style than others, and allow you the autonomy to learn the way that you learn best.

[Apotheosis]

Hmmm. Upgrades.

Priceless. Matrix quote FTW

[Asile]

Drisco, I hope you've been able to work this out with your teacher. If she never explicitly said that you COULD NOT look at the answers first for this work you don't get graded on (which I think would be a totally stupid way to go about it if she really wants to encourage students to learn), and she has no real reason to think you're cheating on work you ARE getting graded on, then she's just on some kind of power trip and I feel sorry for anyone in her classes.

People learn in different ways. I have to teach non-educational professionals this, even remind some educational professionals about this, and I constantly have to remind myself of this. The type of training I do doesn't often allow for a LOT of flexibility, but I have to be able to work with all sorts of students. Some people can learn by doing tons of practice exercises just as presented. Some folks are just like Drisco and, in the learning stages, need to see the answers to new concepts first and work backwards a few times...then they test themselves on their grasp of the concept and methodology by working a problem straight through from beginning to end and figure that if they were finally able to come up with the right answer, they understand what's going on. It makes perfect sense to me.

Is he always going to be able to get the answer first when he's out in the real world? Of course not. But he seems to be aiming to make sure he understands all the concepts in his class so that when the answers aren't given first, he can still get to them. And if he's making good grades on the tests and other work, where he has to work that way, then I'd say he's lucky that he's found his ideal learning style and works to utilize it to his advantage. And it's a huge shame he's got a teacher who doesn't see this.

[Stanley Burrell]

Priceless. Matrix quote FTW

SOMEONE UNDERSTOOD MY OBSCURE REFERENCE!

::spooge::

[Clove]

Drisco's process is a great way to get him through the class, but it's a shitty way to learn accounting. It's not really a math course, the math in accounting is simple arithmetic. But the methodology builds on itself and rote really helps go from the simple simulations to real-world complexity.

Working "backwords" helps you remember the shit just long enough to pass the course.

Beyond that- I did the daily 15 to 20 pages of worksheets you whiney bitch :). Quit you griping like a little Canadian and do the course the way you're instructed.

[Drisco]

Drisco's process is a great way to get him through the class, but it's a shitty way to learn accounting. It's not really a math course, the math in accounting is simple arithmetic. But the methodology builds on itself and rote really helps go from the simple simulations to real-world complexity.

Working "backwords" helps you remember the shit just long enough to pass the course.

Beyond that- I did the daily 15 to 20 pages of worksheets you whiney bitch :). Quit you griping like a little Canadian and do the course the way you're instructed.

ahahah lol! I hate them god damn worksheets.

I tried talking to her but she is a non negotiable buffoon. I went over her head and talked it out with the principle. After I had a convo with him (A well thought out, one sided argument about how she is punishing children who learn differently.) he said he would talk to her about it. She hasn't said a thing to me since. She mostly ignores me in class and when I want to ask a question she pretend she doesn't see me for a long time. Not really fazed though all the questions I ask are just simple things and the final exam is tomorrow and then I am done with her forever.

And for compensation I am stealing a Accounting and Economics book so I can study them this summer and preparer for University.

[Tea & Strumpets]

ahahah lol! I hate them god damn worksheets.

I tried talking to her but she is a non negotiable buffoon. I went over her head and talked it out with the principle. After I had a convo with him (A well thought out, one sided argument about how she is punishing children who learn differently.) he said he would talk to her about it. She hasn't said a thing to me since. She mostly ignores me in class and when I want to ask a question she pretend she doesn't see me for a long time. Not really fazed though all the questions I ask are just simple things and the final exam is tomorrow and then I am done with her forever.

And for compensation I am stealing a Accounting and Economics book so I can study them this summer and preparer for University.

I think you are in the wrong in this situation, but on the bright side your picture thing by your name made me laugh.

[Soulpieced]

I hate accounting. Somehow I managed to get by three undergraduate and two graduate level finance and accounting courses. Hated every minute of them. Ironic how my current job is basically budgeting and accounting....

[Drisco]

Really?! That is something I think I want to do. How do you like it? How much did you start out making? Is there much career advancement in being an accountant or stock broker? I really have no idea still working through HS probably things I should be asking my guidance consoler.