Koops

[dszabo]

UNSQUASH
The sign in Koops' shop reads, "The white ora weaponry is more of a collection of mine, but for sale if your willing to pay the price. All are sanctified, equal to eonake with random zests."

I am not that experienced a player. I needed a 4x, sanctified two hander. I go in and purchase the "white ora flail". It turns out to be 2x and nothing else.

I brought it up with Koops, asking for a refund.

"If I felt I was at fault I would definetely reimburst you, but I feel if you had any questions they should have been asked beforehand. My amulet is always on should someone have a question or want to haggle on anything." is the response I got.

I know I know I know, it's my fault, buyer beware and such. I know Koops' reputation as an honest merchant, and hearing that from him just really bugged me. The sign was definitly misleading. I'm just frustrated because I only ever hear good things about Koops and he wont help me out at all. The price tag was 400k...to me that's a nice chunk of money, so that's why Im frustrated. I'm not trying to bash Koops or anything...just this situation - which is my fault. And im venting.

Ashuron

[Khariz]

Good, cause Koops is awesome.

Edit: Bah, was responsing to the removal of the original post.

[Bobmuhthol]

I could kind of understand his logic if this wasn't GS where you can make a return knowing that your item has not been damaged or abused and you're not the victim of fraud.

What a dickhead on all counts (price, misleading sign, not refunding, and being a fucking idiot in general).

[Khariz]

I could kind of understand his logic if this wasn't GS where you can make a return knowing that your item has not been damaged or abused and you're not the victim of fraud.

What a dickhead on all counts (price, misleading sign, not refunding, and being a fucking idiot in general).

You may be the only one who saw what he actually wrote! Damnit. You are FUCKING SUPPOSED TO QUOTE YOU COCKWEASEL!

[dszabo]

It's back up if you're interested Khariz

[Bobmuhthol]

The only thing he edited was he made paragraphs.

[Khariz]

The only thing he edited was he made paragraphs.

He completely removed it and put it back. Yay! Drama is fun.

[Griffith]

*All are sanctified, equal to eonake with random zests*

Visited his Pshop, it's definetly misleading especially if you're buying from the armory section of his store. And 400k usually equals a 4x locked white ora weapon NOT a 2x. Ah well...

[Bobmuhthol]

I'd kill him with it, or if I couldn't do it myself I'd get a high level character with shadowstrike to do it.

It's worth it, considering 400k is like $4.80.

[Drisco]

I'd be so pissed. His sign is totally misleading, and sounds like he is a big douche bag.


]"If I felt I was at fault I would definetely reimburst you, but I feel if you had any questions they should have been asked beforehand[/B]. My amulet is always on should someone have a question or want to haggle on anything." is the response I got.

What questions would you need to ask?
His sign clearly states. "All are sanctified, equal to eonake with random zests."

[Khariz]

UNSQUASH
The sign in Koops' shop reads, "The white ora weaponry is more of a collection of mine, but for sale if your willing to pay the price. All are sanctified, equal to eonake with random zests."

I am not that experienced a player. I needed a 4x, sanctified two hander. I go in and purchase the "white ora flail". It turns out to be 2x and nothing else.

I brought it up with Koops, asking for a refund.

"If I felt I was at fault I would definetely reimburst you, but I feel if you had any questions they should have been asked beforehand. My amulet is always on should someone have a question or want to haggle on anything." is the response I got.

I know I know I know, it's my fault, buyer beware and such. I know Koops' reputation as an honest merchant, and hearing that from him just really bugged me. The sign was definitly misleading. I'm just frustrated because I only ever hear good things about Koops and he wont help me out at all. The price tag was 400k...to me that's a nice chunk of money, so that's why Im frustrated. I'm not trying to bash Koops or anything...just this situation - which is my fault. And im venting.

Ashuron

You do realize, if you go to http://www.playershops.com/koops

That the sign you are quoting above is in an entirely DIFFERENT ROOM than the room you bought the Flail from, right?

The ARMORY contains the White Ora weapons the sign refers to.

The MAGIC SHOPPE is the room that contained the Flail.

God am I glad that playershops.com doesn't instantly refresh.

User error was the problem here.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm still significantly iffy on the whole thing. You're a fucking dick under any circumstance to try to sell a regular white ora weapon for 400k. Don't forget that rooms have item limits, so it's not impossible to assume that the sign applies to any white ora weapon in the store (why the fuck does he have white ora weapons that aren't like the others?).

[The Ponzzz]

You do realize, if you go to http://www.playershops.com/koops

That the sign you are quoting above is in an entirely DIFFERENT ROOM than the room you bought the Flail from, right?

The ARMORY contains the White Ora weapons the sign refers to.

The MAGIC SHOPPE is the room that contained the Flail.

God am I glad that playershops.com doesn't instantly refresh.

User error was the problem here.

Though, that is setting people up at 400k to believe it is something else.

I mean, buyer beware... But still, selling a 2x flail for 400k is a bit out there when they sell them at the cleric shop.

[Khariz]

I'm still significantly iffy on the whole thing. You're a fucking dick under any circumstance to try to sell a regular white ora weapon for 400k. Don't forget that rooms have item limits, so it's not impossible to assume that the sign applies to any white ora weapon in the store (why the fuck does he have white ora weapons that aren't like the others?).

Not impossible, but retarded. I now understand why Koops suggested ASKING about it.

Can you buy a white ora flail in a regular shop?

[AestheticDeath]

I think it's pretty obvious that the 10m+ weapons are the ones the signs are referring to. And not to something in another room.

Whether 400k was too much for a 2x weapon is irrelevant. It is white ora, it has the flares/zests or whatever that a normal ora weapon would not have. I am pretty sure the white ora ones normally go for a decent amount.

[dszabo]

In his defense, when I asked to return the flail for 300k (I was willing to give up 25% for idiocy tax), he offered to refund me 100k on the price of the flail. But beyond that he wasn't budging.

The blue crystals on the table are 40 rub blue crystals and hard to come by under the new charging system.
The dust can create a magical distraction, allowing the user to slip into hiding. Fresh raffle item complete with it's 50 charges
All magic items are mage rechargable and non crumbly with the exceptions of the enhansive trading ring and the magical dust, they're merchant rechargable.
Black ora locksmith kit is refillable with enough room to hold a good many lockpicks.

The bodice is a lacable with various sleeves and buttons that I sell. Pinworn, interchangable with assessories, pocketed and 2 pound.
Glowbark amulets work like crystal amulets and make great material for alters.

there are the signs in the other two rooms though - nothing about weapons, leading me to believe the sign about weapons referred to all weapons for sale.

Ashuron

[AestheticDeath]

You inferred something. Really you should have realized there was something odd going on if all his weapons are uber, but one is 400k in another room, and the rest are millions.

And if a weapon is not bard sung, or assessed so it shows its real properties under the shop system, you should NEVER buy that item, without talking to the owner. Thats just asking to be screwed. Like a mystery item.

[Koops]

To clarify any further misleading, the clipping of the sign post in the main room of my shop describing the Iasha white ora weaponry is not where the gentleman purchased the white ora flail in question. The flail in question was purchased in a room to the side where there is no claim of it being a Iasha weapon whatsoever. Now if I falsly advertise something I will definetely make the situation right, but leading others into believing something entirely different is not only wrong, but one-sided.

Since the topic is out in the open, might aswell hear the whole story instead of partial.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "Hello, I just purchased a white ora flail from your shop this morning...it was billed as an Iasha flail...but it isn't."

Think to Rimerdall It was never billed as an Iasha weapon.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "The white ora weaponry is more of a collection of mine, but for sale if your willing to pay the price. All are sanctified, equal to eonake with random zests."

Think to Rimerdall No your referring to different weaponry in another room then where you purchased that particular piece.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "You're right, not billed as an Iasha, but as 4x."

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "As far as I can tell, it's a 2x white ora flail."

Think to Rimerdall My amulet is always on should you have a question on anything. That post is in referrence to the higher priced altered pieces in a different room then where you recieved the white ora flail.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "I understand that now, but can you at least not see how it's a misleading sign?"

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "In regards to the item I purchased."

Think to Rimerdall I do see your point, and I will refund you 100k but I do wish if you have any questions about anything or want to haggle to look me up beforehand.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "Nah, I'll stand by my purchase then if that's it, I made a mistake."

Now with the whole conversation out in the open, with this said .. had the white ora flail in question been in the same room as the other advertised pieces on sign I would would be at fault, but as you can see I even went out of my way to offer a refund of a partial denomination of moninatary gain even tho I do not feel I was at fault with his mistake.

[Khariz]

PWNED

[Crazy Bard]

What a bitch ..This is the same as putting three weapons of the same type/description on a table one of which is 4x, and setting them all to the same price. You have a 1/3 chance that someone is going to buy the weapon with no enchantments. Kill the little bastard because you just got robbed. Your sign says *ALL* white ora weaponry ..just give him a refund.

[Koops]

To clarify any further misleading, the clipping of the sign post in the main room of my shop describing the Iasha white ora weaponry is not where the gentleman purchased the white ora flail in question. The flail in question was purchased in a room to the side where there is no claim of it being a Iasha weapon whatsoever. Now if I falsly advertise something I will definetely make the situation right, but leading others into believing something entirely different is not only wrong, but one-sided.

Since the topic is out in the open, might aswell hear the whole story instead of partial.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "Hello, I just purchased a white ora flail from your shop this morning...it was billed as an Iasha flail...but it isn't."

Think to Rimerdall It was never billed as an Iasha weapon.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "The white ora weaponry is more of a collection of mine, but for sale if your willing to pay the price. All are sanctified, equal to eonake with random zests."

Think to Rimerdall No your referring to different weaponry in another room then where you purchased that particular piece.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "You're right, not billed as an Iasha, but as 4x."

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "As far as I can tell, it's a 2x white ora flail."

Think to Rimerdall My amulet is always on should you have a question on anything. That post is in referrence to the higher priced altered pieces in a different room then where you recieved the white ora flail.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "I understand that now, but can you at least not see how it's a misleading sign?"

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "In regards to the item I purchased."

Think to Rimerdall I do see your point, and I will refund you 100k but I do wish if you have any questions about anything or want to haggle to look me up beforehand.

[Private] Rimerdall: [Merchant]: "Nah, I'll stand by my purchase then if that's it, I made a mistake."

Now with the whole conversation out in the open, with this said .. had the white ora flail in question been in the same room as the other advertised pieces on sign I would would be at fault, but as you can see I even went out of my way to offer a refund of a partial denomination of moninatary gain even tho I do not feel I was at fault with his mistake.

[Khariz]

What a bitch ..This is the same as putting three weapons of the same type/description on a table one of which is 4x, and setting them all to the same price. You have a 1/3 chance that someone is going to buy the weapon with no enchantments. Kill the little bastard because you just got robbed. Your sign says *ALL* white ora weaponry ..just give him a refund.

You have GOT to be fucking kidding me! It's not even close to the same thing.

It was in a DIFFERENT FUCKING ROOM, with a DIFFERENT FUCKING SIGN.

Some people are so fucking retarded that I don't understand how their body remembers to breathe.

[Crazy Bard]

It says *ALL* white ora weaponry. I wonder what that means to you.

[Stunseed]

All the weapons in the room. 3 rooms = 3 signs.

[Khariz]

It means all white ora weaponry IN THE ROOM WITH THE FUCKING SIGN.

Okay, imagine this:

You go to Wal-mart and you see a display in the middle of the aisle that says Candy 50% off. There is a bunch of candy on this display.

Do you also thing you can walk to the other side of the store to the candy aisle, and pick up a whitman's sample or some truffles and get 50% off on those too? I think most sane and reasonable people who know that the sign referred to the candy on the display ONLY.

If course it's insane and unreasonable people that Wal-Mart has to include in little text on the sign "Candy on this Display Only".

/shrug. I guess the real world's stupidity flows into GS just the same.

[Crazy Bard]

Ok ..This dumbass put a sign that reads "The white ora weaponry is more of a collection of mine, but for sale if your willing to pay the price." In the armory section of his shop. That itself is misleading ..You can only assume that sign is for the vicinity of his shop

[diethx]

Ok ..This dumbass put a sign that reads "The white ora weaponry is more of a collection of mine, but for sale if your willing to pay the price." In the armory section of his shop. That itself is misleading ..You can only assume that sign is for the vicinity of his shop

Stop being dumb.

[CrystalTears]

Ok ..This dumbass put a sign that reads "The white ora weaponry is more of a collection of mine, but for sale if your willing to pay the price." In the armory section of his shop. That itself is misleading ..You can only assume that sign is for the vicinity of his shop
And yet he bought the flail in the MAGIC section of his shop, where it doesn't state anything about the weapons in that room.

[Stunseed]

You don't get to name the theme of the shop, it's made with the majority of your items.

[Drisco]

It means all white ora weaponry IN THE ROOM WITH THE FUCKING SIGN.

Okay, imagine this:

You go to Wal-mart and you see a display in the middle of the aisle that says Candy 50% off. There is a bunch of candy on this display.

Do you also thing you can walk to the other side of the store to the candy aisle, and pick up a whitman's sample or some truffles and get 50% off on those too? I think most sane and reasonable people who know that the sign referred to the candy on the display ONLY.

If course it's insane and unreasonable people that Wal-Mart has to include in little text on the sign "Candy on this Display Only".

/shrug. I guess the real world's stupidity flows into GS just the same.


First off why are you getting so involved in this situation when it has nothing do with you. You are getting all worked up over a silly thing when really they both have a good point.

Now... this is completely ridiculous and a stupid comparison first off he had the longsword in a room with totally different items. He has a list of almost everything in detail in the room except the longsword. He also had it at 400k which is misleading itself. If you want an example of "Walmart" here is one that would be better.

You walking into Walmart and notice that douchebag who is sitting there making sure you have a sticker/receipt before walking out. I dislike them they do nothing. Anyways..

You notice on the shelf that all Toy swords are for sale!! Yay!! But you are not sure you want it. So you keep shopping and go down the next aisle, as you walk down you see two kids fighting with them and you decide, fuck it I am going to buy a sword. Instead of turning around you keep walking down the aisle and will just go up the other aisle again. But as you are sifting through the Toy Wands you notice that the exact same looking sword is mixed in with all these wands! Wow Lucky you don't have to turn around! Well of course you assume that it is on sale, it looks like the other ones on the other aisle but maybe got placed here by accident. You don't see anything on the signs that indicates this one sword is different from the rest sooo Misleading no?

ZOMG look at my story it makes more sense.

Really it doesn't matter. He doesn't have to refund the guys money if he is that cheap, but it wouldn't hurt.

[Soriel]

Some shopkeepers use one sign to describe multiple rooms. But, the price on the weapon is iffy.Had he sold the white ora for 50k or something similar to the price of the off the shelf weapon in the cleric shop I could understand, and Rimerdall should NOT have recieved a refund.

However, Koops is an experienced merchant and probably knows that a 4 enchant twohander white ora goes for around 400k... -Iashas- go for around that much that hasn't been unlocked or whatever. Plus, even a newb won't pay 400k for a basic 2 enchant weapon.

However, its buyer beward and all, but with the known facts from above it's awful fishy about the intent of Koops what with the signs, the pricing, and the fact that white ora iashas are so prevalent in the market for that exact pricing. Maybe Koops genuinely thought it was a 4 enchant Iasha...but then his talk with Rimerdall says otherwise.

[CrystalTears]

Now... this is completely ridiculous and a stupid comparison first off he had the longsword in a room with totally different items. He has a list of almost everything in detail in the room except the longsword. He also had it at 400k which is misleading itself.
Not necessarily. The magic section has a whole bunch of different kinds of items. He only detailed a handful of them. There are armor and weapon pieces in that room that are not discussed on the sign at all. And how is the price misleading? It was altered and other items in there, including that longsword you brought up, have special qualities.

a white ora flail - 400,000 silvers Heatless violet flames burn across the flail After a careful inspection you determine that a white ora flail requires skill in twohanded weapons to use effectively. It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of white ora.

Maybe some are coming to the defense because there are plenty of shady dealers and lousy merchants in the game as it is, so it's best to make sure the good ones are kept that way.

[Drisco]

I say give the man his silvers back. You know it was wrong of you to charge 400k for a 2x enchant and you were just waiting for someone to buy it. You are a sketchy merchant in my eyes.

[Drisco]

But it is still the only Ora Weapon in that room. Which makes it look like he put it there on accident or because there was no more room.

I am only coming to his defense because it looked like there were to many people against him and I always go for the under dog. Plus it does look like a shady deal no matter how you put it. If you are going to set a weapon in a magic room when you already have a weapon room you better damn well tell the reason.

Oh and also if you do go to a store and buy the wrong type of milk, cheese, or pretty much anything, they will give you the money back or an exchange.

[Davenshire]

I say give the man his silvers back. You know it was wrong of you to charge 400k for a 2x enchant and you were just waiting for someone to buy it. You are a sketchy merchant in my eyes.

What he said.

Any "honest" merchant would refund the person their silvers in return for the item back. :wtf:

regardless of any misunderstanding, reading thr wrong sign, blablabla... If you are going to be a decent merchant you should make sure your customers are happy. Just reading this thread has me not even bothering with this shop/merchant in the future.

[Gan]

I'd refund the silvers, 400k isnt worth losing your rep as an iffy playershops merchant.

[Khariz]

First off why are you getting so involved in this situation when it has nothing do with you. You are getting all worked up over a silly thing when really they both have a good point.

You notice on the shelf that all Toy swords are for sale!! Yay!! But you are not sure you want it. So you keep shopping and go down the next aisle, as you walk down you see two kids fighting with them and you decide, fuck it I am going to buy a sword. Instead of turning around you keep walking down the aisle and will just go up the other aisle again. But as you are sifting through the Toy Wands you notice that the exact same looking sword is mixed in with all these wands! Wow Lucky you don't have to turn around! Well of course you assume that it is on sale, it looks like the other ones on the other aisle but maybe got placed here by accident. You don't see anything on the signs that indicates this one sword is different from the rest sooo Misleading no?



You'll quickly learn that I get involved in just about anything I deem worth getting involved with. This typically occurs when there is an asinine level of stupidity being promulgated on one side of an issue, and a lack of representation of the other.

And your story making more sense? No. Sorry, but just about everything you have ever posted on this board has been some of the most fucked up, retarded shit I have ever read in my life. I don't think you've ever posted one thing here that was of any worth.

Wal-Mart has price scanners for a reason. Koops has his amulet on at all times for a reason. If you scan the price and the toy sword is twice the cost (or in this case a fraction of the cost), it would normally lead someone to investigate WHY.

Brains and Self-Reponsibility solve many problems in life.

[Bobmuhthol]

My main complaint in this situation is only that Koops is refusing a full refund, or even like 85% or something (15% restocking fee, lol!). It's not like he's out anything by doing it, and the argument that the buyer should contact him before every sale is absolute shit.

[CrystalTears]

And maybe it was the only white ora one that wasn't sanctified therefore put in a different room.

When it comes to weapons, people really do need to do their research and make sure that it's what they want, rather than just pay first, ask questions later. He really should have asked about it prior to the purchase.

[Snapp]

I do see both sides of the argument, but I agree that he should just refund the money. If he has items worth millions in that shop, what's 400k to keep a customer happy (and prevent a thread like this)?

[Soriel]

If it was a 50 mil weapon of doom, yes, ask a ton of questions and get a GM to sit there witnessing the transaction //just for affect.

But this is a commonly traded item and the price is set exactly to that particularly well traded item. It's like having two versions of a vultite sword with one being 4x and another being 2 enchants. Both are very prevalent one is worth a whole lot more then the other and the person prices this common item at the whole lot more one.... it doesnt sound right.

[Methais]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/vidara/clip_smooth_criminal.jpg

[Khariz]

I do see both sides of the argument, but I agree that he should just refund the money. If he has items worth millions in that shop, what's 400k to keep a customer happy (and prevent a thread like this)?

I disagree. Like he said when he was talking to the customer (in the log that he provided), if he did this for everyone who wasn't happy with a weapon for one reason or another, he'd be little more than a Pawn Shop.

There was no sign on the shop referring to the item in question. The item was not affirmatively misrepresented. I see no reason to refund.

And you folks that keep blabbing about 2x weapons and 400k. Take a look at the twohander market. Try to go to the cleric shop and buy a sanctified flail. Hint, you can't. THe rules are different in stuff like this. That was a pretty good deal.

[Soriel]

Screw it!

Now that I think about it in a RP way, you should just keep the money. You're a merchant out to make some silvers! Stick to your guns and keep the silvers!

[Koops]

The point of the matter is far beyond the silvers, it's the principle.

It's not like I refused work out the kinks, I did offer a partial refund. If I gave this gentlemen his entire purchase price refund I would have to do it for everyone who buys something uses it and then decides something better has come along and wants a return, not saying this was his case but it has happened before and there has to be some ground rules or else all you are is a pawnshop. Am sorry some of you will not agree but it's the way it is. If anyone ever has a question about an item in anyshop it's always best to confirm with the seller then to assume anything.

Any transaction I've ever made has been honest, not saying I don't charge a premium but my pricing is not the issue at hand, it's my integrity.

[Khariz]

Screw it!

Now that I think about it in a RP way, you should just keep the money. You're a merchant out to make some silvers! Stick to your guns and keep the silvers!

Wow!

[Snapp]

I disagree. Like he said when he was talking to the customer (in the log that he provided), if he did this for everyone who wasn't happy with a weapon for one reason or another, he'd be little more than a Pawn Shop.


If he has that many people who are unhappy with the stuff he sells, then he sucks as a merchant.

[Khariz]

If he has that many people who are unhappy with the stuff he sells, then he sucks as a merchant.

No, you aren't getting the point.

The OP's reason might have been genuine. There are other people out there who suffer "buyer's remorse" for buying something they didn't want/need, and try to return it to shop owners all the time. There's no way to differentiate one from the other (assuming you did NOT affirmatively mislead them).

You can't cater to people's whims about wanting to return items. Mechanting just doesn't work like that.

[CrystalTears]

If he has that many people who are unhappy with the stuff he sells, then he sucks as a merchant.
Has this merchant been questioned before?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<It's not like I refused work out the kinks, I did offer a partial refund.>>

I would pissed beyond measure if I bought something for 400k, realized it wasn't what I expected it to be based on the literature of the shop owner, and he offered to pay me 100k for it. I would never give anyone the satisfaction of getting a free 300k and then making the 400k again selling the same item to someone else. What an absolutely retarded idea.

<<If I gave this gentlemen his entire purchase price refund I would have to do it for everyone who buys something uses it and then decides something better has come along and wants a return>>

Except there's a valid reason why he expects a refund, and the timeframe is minimal. It doesn't take a pawn shop, as you put it, to offer refunds on sales within a couple days of purchase.

<<Am sorry some of you will not agree but it's the way it is.>>

The way it should be is not at all as you describe it; your "way it is" sucks.

<<If anyone ever has a question about an item in anyshop it's always best to confirm with the seller then to assume anything.>>

That's an absurd statement. As has been pointed out, there's a lot of evidence that would lead the buyer to believe what he did, and not every little detail needs a formal inquiry. Moreover, it would be pretty responsible for you to say "ALL SALES ARE FINAL" or something similar if you're going to enforce such a ridiculous policy; people shouldn't have to ask if you're going to fuck them.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<You can't cater to people's whims about wanting to return items. Mechanting just doesn't work like that.>>

Maybe this turned into Bizarro World overnight, maybe I'm completely batshit insane, I don't know... but I'm pretty sure GS isn't a good representation of actual merchanting, and any self-respecting store would give a refund in a situation like this.

[Soriel]

The point of the matter is far beyond the silvers, it's the principle.

It's not like I refused work out the kinks, I did offer a partial refund. If I gave this gentlemen his entire purchase price refund I would have to do it for everyone who buys something uses it and then decides something better has come along and wants a return, not saying this was his case but it has happened before and there has to be some ground rules or else all you are is a pawnshop. Am sorry some of you will not agree but it's the way it is. If anyone ever has a question about an item in anyshop it's always best to confirm with the seller then to assume anything.

Any transaction I've ever made has been honest, not saying I don't charge a premium but my pricing is not the issue at hand, it's my integrity.


Ok but that doesn't make sense. For some ultra high end item where the properties are unique I can see that. Hey I don't like those self-cast tremors it doesn't do much damage, "Can I get a refund?!"

But this is a white ora weapon, it's common and is known to come up as 2x and 4x. Plus how long has passed since he bought it? Less then a couple days.... really why would anyone buy a 2 enchant white ora weapon for 400k just to use it for the next 2 days??

Bottom line: Noone wants to joy ride in a Honda Civic, a Ferrari yes, a Civic no.

[Khariz]

<<It's not like I refused work out the kinks, I did offer a partial refund.>>

I would pissed beyond measure if I bought something for 400k, realized it wasn't what I expected it to be based on the literature of the shop owner, and he offered to pay me 100k for it. I would never give anyone the satisfaction of getting a free 300k and then making the 400k again selling the same item to someone else. What an absolutely retarded idea.

<<If I gave this gentlemen his entire purchase price refund I would have to do it for everyone who buys something uses it and then decides something better has come along and wants a return>>

Except there's a valid reason why he expects a refund, and the timeframe is minimal. It doesn't take a pawn shop, as you put it, to offer refunds on sales within a couple days of purchase.

<<Am sorry some of you will not agree but it's the way it is.>>

The way it should be is not at all as you describe it; your "way it is" sucks.

<<If anyone ever has a question about an item in anyshop it's always best to confirm with the seller then to assume anything.>>

That's an absurd statement. As has been pointed out, there's a lot of evidence that would lead the buyer to believe what he did, and not every little detail needs a formal inquiry. Moreover, it would be pretty responsible for you to say "ALL SALES ARE FINAL" or something similar if you're going to enforce such a ridiculous policy; people shouldn't have to ask if you're going to fuck them.


:club:

There's no valid reason. There was no mis-representation. There was a foolish (and in my opinion unreasonable) assumption by the buyer. Basically nothing you said in your post was true.

[Bobmuhthol]

Everything in my post was true. You literally just argued against one point in my post and called it everything.

Oh, and you also argued against a point I never made to support your argument, which is dumb.

[Davenshire]

Any transaction I've ever made has been honest, not saying I don't charge a premium but my pricing is not the issue at hand, it's my integrity.

......?

1. Guy is disatisfied.

2. You blow him off.

3. You get a 4 page thread about how rediculously greedy it is to short someone for a x2 weapon. grats on your "honesty and integrity." I especially like the playing it off with the whole "pawnshop scenario." Did he use it for months, or contact you immediatly?

Blacklist this shop/merchant. :nono:

[Drisco]

You'll quickly learn that I get involved in just about anything I deem worth getting involved with. This typically occurs when there is an asinine level of stupidity being promulgated on one side of an issue, and a lack of representation of the other.

And your story making more sense? No. Sorry, but just about everything you have ever posted on this board has been some of the most fucked up, retarded shit I have ever read in my life. I don't think you've ever posted one thing here that was of any worth.

Wal-Mart has price scanners for a reason. Koops has his amulet on at all times for a reason. If you scan the price and the toy sword is twice the cost (or in this case a fraction of the cost), it would normally lead someone to investigate WHY.

Brains and Self-Reponsibility solve many problems in life.

Brains and Responsibility I think you meant.


Hmm you turned into a bitch real fast when I disagreed with you... Have you read all of my posts to know if there is anything of worth in them? If you have, you need to get outside more, if you haven't shut the fuck up? It is quite obvious you are sucking Koops cock, and have shit for brains. (No offense Koop, I have bought things from you and they have been fine!)

There is no one completely in the right here, they both make good points. It's really up to Koop and what he wants to do, so there is no point in really arguing the matter on who is right and wrong. The argument should be about how Koop should handle the situation.

Also are you a guy or girl? I don't know if I should use douche bag or bitch. Although I guess bitch could work for both.

[Snapp]

You can't cater to people's whims about wanting to return items. Mechanting just doesn't work like that.

I wouldn't call this a "whim." It was a real misunderstanding, not a "oh, i dont want this anymore" incident. I'll just agree to disagree.

Posted by Crystaltears
Has this merchant been questioned before?
I have no idea who this Koops guy even is. I was just responding to the "Pawn shop" comment.

[Khariz]

Everything in my post was true. You literally just argued against one point in my post and called it everything.

Oh, and you also argued against a point I never made to support your argument, which is dumb.


----->>>>



I would pissed beyond measure if I bought something for 400k, realized it wasn't what I expected it to be based on the literature of the shop owner, and he offered to pay me 100k for it.

That's not what happened. The literature said NOTHING about this item. Way to lie about what happened. What happened was ignorant assumption]


Except there's a valid reason why he expects a refund...

Like I just said above. There was no valid reason.

As has been pointed out, there's a lot of evidence that would lead the buyer to believe what he did, and not every little detail needs a formal inquiry. Moreover, it would be pretty responsible for you to say "ALL SALES ARE FINAL" or something similar if you're going to enforce such a ridiculous policy; people shouldn't have to ask if you're going to fuck them.

If by "a lot of evidence" you mean "anecdotal bullshit worth nothing, where people are pretending that a sign on a DIFFERENT room referring to multi-million coin weapons should apply to sub-million coin weapons in another room" then, yeah, sure you are correct.



There, I addressed it all. Give me a fucking break. Don't be a dumb shit.

[Khariz]

......?

1. Guy is disatisfied.

2. You blow him off.

3. You get a 4 page thread about how rediculously greedy it is to short someone for a x2 weapon. grats on your "honesty and integrity." I especially like the playing it off with the whole "pawnshop scenario." Did he use it for months, or contact you immediatly?

Blacklist this shop/merchant. :nono:

LOL, like 2 people who have responded think Koops did anything wrong. Everyone else has no probelm with the way it panned out. The 4 pages are mostly in SUPPORT of him.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<That's not what happened. The literature said NOTHING about this item. Way to lie about what happened. What happened was ignorant assumption>>

The buyer thought the literature said something about the item. I didn't lie about what happened, I stated it pretty accurately. I never said the buyer wasn't wrong in his interpretation, but he DID interpret it. Sorry that you have your views (the wrong ones) and I have mine (the right ones), but that's the way it is.

<<Like I just said above. There was no valid reason.>>

As I said above, there was.

<<sure you are correct.>>

Thanks. :)

[Snapp]

The 4 pages are mostly in SUPPORT of him.

And a good chunk of the posts in those 4 pages are just you being a condescending asshole.

[Khariz]

<<That's not what happened. The literature said NOTHING about this item. Way to lie about what happened. What happened was ignorant assumption>>

The buyer thought the literature said something about the item. I didn't lie about what happened, I stated it pretty accurately. I never said the buyer wasn't wrong in his interpretation, but he DID interpret it. Sorry that you have your views (the wrong ones) and I have mine (the right ones), but that's the way it is.

<<Like I just said above. There was no valid reason.>>

As I said above, there was.

<<sure you are correct.>>

Thanks. :)

The buyer *thought* (read erroneously assumed), and was wrong. The buyer didn't bother to ask. It was not reasonable.

[Khariz]

And a good chunk of the posts in those 4 pages are just you being a condescending asshole.

That's what I do. You'll get over it.

[Davenshire]

LOL, like 2 people who have responded think Koops did anything wrong. Everyone else has no probelm with the way it panned out. The 4 pages are mostly in SUPPORT of him.


Support is about 2 pages of you burying yer head up his ass, but ok ;)

Merchanting works on trust. Someone is upset with a purchase they made in your shop, if it is within reason you make them happy. All I am seeing here is Koops happily blowing smoke up this guys ass, and walking away with his 400k. A return woudn't put anyone out here except maybe 2 minutes of the sellers time to make the person happy and avoid a smirch on his rep.

Will I not do business with this guy ever? I won't. Will I be sure to point others to this thread and bring it up in conversation? I will.

And seriously khariz, are you guys tuckus buddies or what?

[Methais]

How much were the 4x white ora weapons he was selling?

[diethx]

.
How much were the 4x white ora weapons he was selling?


I think it's pretty obvious that the 10m+ weapons are the ones the signs are referring to. And not to something in another room.

[Lord Nelek]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I'd like to offer this:

Whether negative or positive, do you want people to make judgements about you over 400k?

If you don't, it's probably a good idea just to give the silvers back. Do you have an extra 400k to spare? Is it worth it just to make this situation go away and you come out the nice guy?

[Griffith]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I'd like to offer this:

Whether negative or positive, do you want people to make judgements about you over 400k?

If you don't, it's probably a good idea just to give the silvers back. Do you have an extra 400k to spare? Is it worth it just to make this situation go away and you come out the nice guy?

He already stated it was about principle rather then the silvers. He argues, if he were to give this person a refund then it would open the doors for others to recieve a refund from him also.

[dszabo]

I appreciate all of the support for me, and I feel I have been very open about both sides of this. I wasn't trying to misrepresent the situation. I stated in the first post that I know Koops as a merchant, an honest merchant. I also said it was my fault. I also said I was just "venting" my frustration over my idiotic loss of 400k. I also posted the other signs so you guys could see what those included, to show there was only one reference to any weapons in the shop. I had come to terms, before I posted originally, with my loss of 400k, but I do appreciate everyone's two cents, and viewing the situation from both sides. I'll probably still deal with Koops anyways - he does carry some good things. I've just paid 400k to learn a lesson.

Thanks everyone!

Ashuron

[Gelston]

Oh no, I've been jipped for four dollars.

[Boora]

I've had nothing but positive dealings with Koops. I've purchased several items from him over the past couple of months and everything is what he said it was.

I appreciate your honesty and integrity, Koops.

[dszabo]

Nope, I've lost, I was never jipped outright, 400k. I don't equate in game money with US currency.

Ashuron

[Davenshire]

Dzabo please check your PM's.

[Gelston]

It doesn't matter if you do or not, it has a monetary value, and its equal to a little over 4 bucks. I suppose if you were going on the principal of the thing though.. Whatever.

[The Ponzzz]

It doesn't matter if you do or not, it has a monetary value, and its equal to a little over 4 bucks. I suppose if you were going on the principal of the thing though.. Whatever.

If the pizza man "jibbed" me of $4 I would hunt his ass down, on the principal...

[Gelston]

I'd consider it payback on me, for the many times I've paid in dimes and nickles when I was younger.

[The Ponzzz]

I'd consider it payback on me, for the many times I've paid in dimes and nickles when I was younger.

Money is money! Whether it is 100 pennies or 20 nickles!

[Celephais]

I did offer a partial refund.
Your partial refund offer was a slap in the face. If he came to you looking for a refund because of an ambiguous signage then the only right thing to do would be to offer a full refund, or as bob said, a small restocking fee. The fact he came to you offering to take only a 75% refund shows extreme generosity on his part. Any merchant would be out of their mind to not take an instant 25% profit with no reduction in value of the item (GS doesn't have wearing of the item). So obviously that shows your intention was to bilk someone.

[Gelston]

Tell that to the asshole at the circle K who wouldn't take my 20000 pennies because he didn't have enough room in his change drawer.

[Hunter D]

I've always known Koops to be a honest merchant in my dealings with him but, this particular case is confusing. Hm.

[Davenshire]

Your partial refund offer was a slap in the face. If he came to you looking for a refund because of an ambiguous signage then the only right thing to do would be to offer a full refund, or as bob said, a small restocking fee. The fact he came to you offering to take only a 75% refund shows extreme generosity on his part. Any merchant would be out of their mind to not take an instant 25% profit with no reduction in value of the item (GS doesn't have wearing of the item). So obviously that shows your intention was to bilk someone.


Its lile the small time version...

Minnie Me is to Dr. Evil

what

Koops is to Zimzum

[diethx]

Its lile the small time version...

Minnie Me is to Dr. Evil

what

Koops is to Zimzum

To equate this situation to the Zimzum situation is a serious stretch.

[Davenshire]

well now, if yer minnie me, compared to dr. evil....


4$ vs. 400$....


ok, maybe I am padding minnies weight just a little :(

at least he came away with a x2 flail with a resale value of..........,

right?

[diethx]

well now, if yer minnie me, compared to dr. evil....


4$ vs. 400$....


ok, maybe I am padding minnies weight just a little :(

at least he came away with a x2 flail with a resale value of..........,

right?

It's pretty funny how you're more offended by this situation than Ashuron is. He realizes that he fucked up and in the future will hopefully read much more carefully. And not make assumptions about signs that most people understand to only reference the room they're posted in, unless a note is written to cover the entire shop.

[Nilandia]

I'm not getting involved in this argument other than to say that no Iasha weapon was sold off the rack as just 'a white ora flail.' Flails with that description are sold off the rack on Teras, and are not scripted.

Iasha flails were sold either as an ash-handled white ora flail (from the FWI festival) or a ruic-handled white ora flail (the Wavedancer).

Gretchen

[Skeeter]

Not giving back the 400k is a total douchebag move.

[Khariz]

Your partial refund offer was a slap in the face. If he came to you looking for a refund because of an ambiguous signage then the only right thing to do would be to offer a full refund, or as bob said, a small restocking fee. The fact he came to you offering to take only a 75% refund shows extreme generosity on his part. Any merchant would be out of their mind to not take an instant 25% profit with no reduction in value of the item (GS doesn't have wearing of the item). So obviously that shows your intention was to bilk someone.

Except that it wasn't ambiguous signage.

That's what is pissing me off about this thread. All you morons who keep saying this.

See if you people can follow this:

There is Rooms A, B, and C. Koops, unlike some other stupid merchants employs the use of signs in all three. The signs are for the items in their respective rooms. OMFG.

You have a sign that explains the properties of 10mil+ White Ora weapons in one room. You have a lone 400k white ora weapon in a *different* room. There is *absolutely no* reason to think one has to do with the other.

If *either* the 400k white ora weapon had been in the room with the sign *or* the white ora weapon in the room *without* the sign about white ora weapons would have been 10mil+ too, then *maybe* this point would have *some* merit.

As it stands though, this was an illogical, and unsubstantiated assumption made by the buyer. Koops owes him NOTHING.

[Silique]

I think it odd for someone who plays a merchant to have an inventory that not bard sung. At first blush that seems shady and as a rule I dont waste my time with shops without the bard info.

[Jayvn]

wow..i'm glad gs doesn't affect me anymore/at the moment... this is fucking retarded.

[Gan]

......?

1. Guy is disatisfied.

2. You blow him off.

3. You get a 4 page thread about how rediculously greedy it is to short someone for a x2 weapon. grats on your "honesty and integrity." I especially like the playing it off with the whole "pawnshop scenario." Did he use it for months, or contact you immediatly?

Blacklist this shop/merchant. :nono:
I own about 10m in white ora weaponry right now, of which I intend to stock my next shop with. I've been in Koops shop and found the items priced as stupid as the signage was, not to mention they werent at a minimum bard sung to for attribute verification. His shop is a complete waste of time coming from someone who's been merchanting for quite a while in low to moderately ranged items.


LOL, like 2 people who have responded think Koops did anything wrong. Everyone else has no probelm with the way it panned out. The 4 pages are mostly in SUPPORT of him.
Sorry, you're blinded by the light here. Basically there's 2 or 3 posters in support at this point. Significantly more who think other wise.


And a good chunk of the posts in those 4 pages are just you being a condescending asshole.
:yeathat:


I didn't read the entire thread, but I'd like to offer this:

Whether negative or positive, do you want people to make judgements about you over 400k?

If you don't, it's probably a good idea just to give the silvers back. Do you have an extra 400k to spare? Is it worth it just to make this situation go away and you come out the nice guy?
Exactly.


I appreciate all of the support for me, and I feel I have been very open about both sides of this. I wasn't trying to misrepresent the situation. I stated in the first post that I know Koops as a merchant, an honest merchant. I also said it was my fault. I also said I was just "venting" my frustration over my idiotic loss of 400k. I also posted the other signs so you guys could see what those included, to show there was only one reference to any weapons in the shop. I had come to terms, before I posted originally, with my loss of 400k, but I do appreciate everyone's two cents, and viewing the situation from both sides. I'll probably still deal with Koops anyways - he does carry some good things. I've just paid 400k to learn a lesson.

Thanks everyone!

Ashuron
I think someone has already contacted you privately for assistance. If you have not received any, U2U me and I'll buy the weapon from you for what you paid for it.


Its lile the small time version...

Minnie Me is to Dr. Evil

what

Koops is to Zimzum
ROFL. This made me laugh out loud. Caveat Zimzum (Emptor)?


I think it odd for someone who plays a merchant to have an inventory that not bard sung. At first blush that seems shady and as a rule I dont waste my time with shops without the bard info.
Thats a minimum requirement for anything thats been in any of my shops. Sometimes I have items bard sung then stacked with a warrior assess so there's no doubt as to the items attributes. And that definately helps with sales.

Good thread. I give it 5 stars.

Oh and...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=koops+gemstone

GO GO GOOGLE WEBCRAWLER!
(anyone wanting to look up Koops via Google will find this thread. Gotta love the PC. :)

[CrystalTears]

The one problem I have with player shops, and I honestly don't know how they work, but that most of the time the shops don't show all the properties of the item.

I can understand the OP getting upset because he thought it was a 4x but it was really a 2x, as it didn't say anywhere what the enchant was in the first place. Some of the other items showed the information but not always.

What's the deal with that?

[dszabo]

Thank you for your offer to purchase the flail from me Gan. I really appreciate that. Davenshire has offered me the use of his Bastard Sword though and I have taken him up on that. Thank you both! And everyone else. :)

Ashuron

[Davenshire]

Why does this piss me off?

because some underhanded bastard throws up a x2 flail anyone can purchase.

He then gives it a HUGE mark up.

Then he has the audacity to hide behind some BS about "honesty and integrity."

Hmm lets take a trip to teras Isle.


+++Teras Clerical Shop+++
item-a white ora lance type-polearm base-lance weight-16lbs price-25k

item-white ora flail type-THW base-flail weight-8 price-40k

item-a white ora awl-pike type-polearm base-awl-pike weight-7 price-50k


So koops, if you wanna reset your "honest" unsuspecting purchaser trap by mixing in low end white ora at high prices, just head back to teras isle and pick up a lance or flail. Hell you can probably make more coin of the lances, put those at 600,000 silver.

Hell you don't even need back room access. I guess the 360,000 silver mark up is the transport fee's from the isle???

I really hate thieving godless fucks who act like "honest merchants with integrity." the whole while selling marked up shit at 4000% profit. I guess a FEW others do to.

As far as I am concerned yer actions here should black list you from playershops.com. Unfortunatly that isn't my call. AND I woudn't want to hassle the swell fella that runs it with cleaning up after a slappy like you.

Any decent fella would go, "oh wow, I didn't know these were sold off the shelf for nickels!!!" and quickly give a refund. not dick someone and then run with their silvers.

You aren't a decent merchant. You are the lowofthelow who takes advantage of the unsuspecting and makes silvers off it.

:tool:

[FinisWolf]

Having merchanted items for years, a simple refund is the correct answer.

Stating that every slap happy so and so would use you as a pawnshop is a load of crap. In my years of play, I have had to do three refunds. So what? Two of the three were because the seller thought the item was something else then what I advertised it as. The other one was simply because they changed their minds.

Guess what? I didn't give a rats ass either way. Within no more then two days they contacted me requesting the refund, and they got it. Why?

Because keeping my customers happy means more to me then a few silvers.

Finis

[Halstein]

I'm all for bringing back the phrase "Zimzum'd"

[Khariz]

I seriously cannot put into words how stupid most of you are being in this thread. There's so many factual inaccuracies, logical errors, etc., that it is completely mindboggling.

With regard to the Sign: You can't have it both ways, folks. It's either a sign that claims all white ora weapons in the shop are 4x (and also acknowledges that they are his *personal* collection, but can be purchased *if someone wants to pay the price*) or not. So either (a) You have to admit that the sign does not apply to weapons not IN THAT ROOM, or (b) you have to acknowledge that he admits that things are overpriced for what they are because they aren't priced to sell.

I still stand by the idea that running to Teras to buy something isn't a realistic thing for most people I know to do.

And the Bard sung thing: Any merchant worth his salt would have everything in his shop sung to? Please! Without doing any official stat-glancing, I would have to anecdotally say that 90% of the items in the Playershops are un-sung. You either have to ASK the merchant what the properties are or take a risk in a *majority* of the shops.

Yes, there are a few people out there who anally sing to anything of worth, and you know when you buy from their shop that you are certain to see the properties of an item. I wouldn't call that the majority of shop owners though. Not by any stretch.

The ultimate point, that nearly EVERYONE is ignoring here though, is that he *did not* do anything to affimatively mislead the buyer. It is his discretion to not issue a refund. It's fine for people to have the personal opinion that he's an asshole for not doing it, but these presumptuous and unsubstantiated accusations of shadiness and other claims are just plain silly.

Again, what *actually* happened was: A guy walked into a shop, read a sign in one room, went to another, rediculously assumed that an item one tenth the cost of other items in a completely seperate room had the same properties, bought the item, and got mad when his assumption didn't pan out. The merchant did nothing wrong here. Get over it.

[Khariz]

And on that note, I've decided that I'll never convince anyone here of anything, and that none of you will convince me of anything, so I'm just going to fly off into the sunset on my Roflcopter, and watch the idiocy roll in from above.

Holla!

[Davenshire]

Khariz,... you truly are a monkey.


I still stand by the idea that running to Teras to buy something isn't a realistic thing for most people I know to do.

I don't know whats better. you slappies playing off this "pawnshop" BS..- or that you actually believe yer above quote makes it ok to sell it at 400k.

You can chase your tail all you want about "signs, and misrepresentation" quible over semantics and sign placement. try to blow enough smoke to cover up the fact you riped someone off by selling junk....

The problem is you guys comment on HONESTY & INTEGRITY.

Give me a break. Some guy who isn't very well traveled, or nieve in assuming an "honest merchant" woudn't put up a 40k flail for 400k....



honest merchant my ass. you guys are a fucking joke.


Let's take a trip to teras:

You ask about the price of a white ora flail.
You try to engage Garntek in pleasant conversation, hoping to soften him up a bit, but he doesn't appear to be interested in chatting about much besides the price. After some business-like haggling, you settle on a price of 39984 silvers.
You may ORDER something else, or BUY this item.

yeah definitly zimzum'd

:shit:


P.S. I "might" understand if Koops wasn't aware of them for sale on teras. If he immediatly gave this guy a refund I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. It sure doesn't help him with you yelling at the top of your lungs, "nothings wrong here, move along, he didn't rip anyone off!!!!"

because he did rip someone off.

The buyer definitly made a mistake. He made a mistake in trusting that koops wasn't some turnip farming quick change artist. he was wrong.

[Anebriated]

Honestly, his signs were marked as they should have been, and the buyer should have picked up on the differences between rooms and prices. On the other hand though its good business practice to leave your customers happy, the only reason you would not give a full refund is because you were trying to catch someone in your little trap. If the seller had any integrity as a merchant they would have AT LEAST offered to refund the 300k or 350k in this case to give the buyer the actual price. To offer a return of 100k on a 400k investment is just being a complete dick.

[Sean of the Thread]

Yeah it strikes me as a crock of shit. This guy seems like a douche.

Who really cares about fucking 400k anyways? I mean it's been a long while since I was noob and can't really remember what it's like being poor but wtf?? That's like ashtray change.

[we2monkeys]

That's like ashtray change.

Not to everyone! I had a whole 3,000 and some change to my name earlier this week.

I really don't understand the not giving a refund deal. Though the 400,000 price for a 40,000 silver item is a bit sketchy, it's the absolute refusal to refund a decent amount that has tarnished this merchant for me.

It's good the community as a whole is made up of better people, willing to help the guy out, and not just tell him to piss off.

- Fehala's Puppeteer (with a first post!)

[Methais]

If nothing else, avoiding this thread being made to begin with by giving the guy a refund on overpriced bait & switch vendor trash should be worth far more than 400k.

[Gan]

Yeah it strikes me as a crock of shit. This guy seems like a douche.

Who really cares about fucking 400k anyways? I mean it's been a long while since I was noob and can't really remember what it's like being poor but wtf?? That's like ashtray change.

I remember being a noob and not knowing how to generate silvers other than hunt and loot for treasure around the landing (worst place to try to get rich off of gathered coins/loot from hunting).

I remember finally crossing 100k and celebrating. I remember the first million balance I saw. Being a noob, a true noob, is tough. You dont know or have the resources to know where items can be found normally and money is not easy to come by, so yea, 400k is a substantial amount of change for a noob. Hence why I offered to buy the flail off the new guy, because to me it represents a small fraction of what I have in the bank and dont use. To him, its something different.

And Khariz, thanks for finally STFU.
:clap:

[Bobmuhthol]

Lol @ Khariz calling it "unrealistic" to go out to Teras to buy something. What does it cost, 100k to instantly teleport between towns or some stupid shit? He could have done that twice and bought the flail from the cleric shop for 240k, and let's not forget that it costs 50k to go to Teras and come back if you don't mind waiting to do it.

[Tsa`ah]

Reminds me of the time when the Mule first opened, I was a lowbie with no clue, and I bought a bone-hilted iron warsword for 50k.

[Davenshire]

The point of the matter is far beyond the silvers, it's the principle.

It's not like I refused work out the kinks, I did offer a partial refund. If I gave this gentlemen his entire purchase price refund I would have to do it for everyone who buys something uses it and then decides something better has come along and wants a return, not saying this was his case but it has happened before and there has to be some ground rules or else all you are is a pawnshop. Am sorry some of you will not agree but it's the way it is. If anyone ever has a question about an item in anyshop it's always best to confirm with the seller then to assume anything.

Any transaction I've ever made has been honest, not saying I don't charge a premium but my pricing is not the issue at hand, it's my integrity.




LOL.

We need to start a blacklist for con-artists. Who else goes on it other then zimzum and Koops.

[Savageheart]

Funniest thing about this thread, the arguments being made have nothing to do with the situation, but with the people representing pro and con.

We've all had people not offer refunds in good faith. Sucks, but you take the good you take the bad the facts of life... the facts of life... Ahh some day Trudy will have me. Anyway you get the idea, there is no right and wrong here certainly no classical good and evil. This is just the kind of shit that happens, sometimes shit stinks, sometimes when you eat a lot of fruit and chew competently it smells... well either way it still smells bad.

Moving on, some highlights for those vocal people.

Cele: Well crafted argument, logical forthright, and at least presentable, I still hate you with a rage that could fuel a thousand suns. I have no idea why, but I'm going to go with it. You're not a ginger are you, if you were that would be great.

Sean2: Who are you again and why do we care? Outside of representing old and forgotten contingent of the caustic internet tough guys around the world, do you serve any purpose or higher power? If so I would like to subscribe to your news letter.

Khariz: Switch to decaf, the number of logical fallacies represented in your arguments are both staggering and admirable in their own fashion. I mean you are taking full of shit on to the pro circuit there. Secretly, I think you know it to you just were wearing your devil's advocate panties when you woke up (I bet they are black aren't they?).

Koops: You have expressed your right to be a prick, excellent! Now go home and punch yourself in the crotch. Saying you have integrity by stating up front you reserve the right to apply an over generalization implicitly does not grant you immunity from scrutiny. Any good merchant would tell you and in fact several have, you don't offer refunds to keep customers you offer them so they leave quietly. Now you are comfortable resting upon the laurels of your past exchanges and I don't blame you. Do try and remember something though, you can build a thousand bridges in your life, and you can suck one cock. At the end of the day, they'll still be calling you a cocksucker.

Whoboughttheflail: You sir or ma'am require a little more backbone in your endevours. Yes, you did make an honest mistake of assumption. However, you diligently brought this to the vendors attention and very politely requested a refund. He then offered you a 75% restocking fee. When a stranger tries to mount the south face of your rectum the proper response is not gentile discourse and further apology. He feed you shit with a rusty spoon and you not only smiled but asked for the recipe!

Now the deliciously ironic part is that this whole exchange has been blown so far out of rational proportion that people here whose attention spans are already limited will forget all about the good time within five minutes of this thread going silent.

At least I had some fun with it first, which is really the whole point... Now who are all you people and where did I park my car?

[Tsa`ah]

We could coin the phrase "Kooped".

"Son of a bitch ... I paid 200k for this piece of shit I thought was X and it turns out it's off the rack crap sold for 20k."

"Lol ... the newbie got Kooped."

[Gan]

Yea, I remember getting taken on a few deals because I didnt know they could be procured from other areas. I guess part of that represents the realism of a completely 'free market' as represented by the amunet of old.

Playershops have pretty much been under a lazziez faire regulation by the GM's unless someone is blatantly abusing a mechanic or bug to rip someone off.

And to clarify, I only sing to items that either have a magical charge amount, an enchant to identify, or levels of padding or weighting to identify. Everything else gets a note on the sign or is sold as-is. And I have no problem offering up a refund to buyers who can present the original item back to me that was sold.

[Savageheart]

And now to randomly reminisce

I made a silly amount of what's now considered pocket change (back then a little was a lot more though) with the elven village back when men were men and goats wore pants. I was selling the target shields and knives for about a month before the general population figured out where the stuff was coming from.

Never did have a request for a return though, but then even at a 200% mark up the items were generally cheap.

Ahh good times.

[Lyonis]

As it stands though, this was an illogical, and unsubstantiated assumption made by the buyer.

Unless there was a sign mentioning the properties of the purchased 2x flail, then another poster noted correctly that by saying "The white ora weapons" you're implying all of them. It's about as dry as logic can get and more than substantiates the buyers claim that he was mislead.



Koops owes him NOTHING.

What does he owe you for the salad toss?


so yea, 400k is a substantial amount of change for a noob. Hence why I offered to buy the flail off the new guy, because to me it represents a small fraction of what I have in the bank and dont use. To him, its something different.


Gan is a bleeding heart liberal!!!

It's actually a very nice gesture of you, I just couldn't resist :)

[dszabo]

In response to Savagehearts "critique" of our debate I would just like to let you know that I don't lack backbone. What I lack is the conviction to really slam my head against a brick wall. Nothing I could have done would have changed Koops' mind - and I did pick up a lesson here. Could my almost titled paladin do anything to change his mind? Highly unlikely. I picked up on a few good things here, met some kind people, and learned a little about the "honest" merchants Elanthia has to offer. All in all, Davenshire has helped me out incredibly, Gan offered to, and others have shown their support. I just didn't really care too much to get my coin back after speaking with Koops in game. I knew that line of text involving my promissary note was too valuable to him. I appreciate everything you guys have helped me with!

Ashuron

[Gan]

OH NOEZ, IM A LIBERAL IN GOP CLOTHING!

No offense taken. ;)

I just remember how it sucked to be new and dont mind helping someone out who's going through that process. Just dont beg. :(
I have this thing about helping those who actually try to help themselves. I cant stand freeloaders.

[Gan]

And now to randomly reminisce

I made a silly amount of what's now considered pocket change (back then a little was a lot more though) with the elven village back when men were men and goats wore pants. I was selling the target shields and knives for about a month before the general population figured out where the stuff was coming from.

Never did have a request for a return though, but then even at a 200% mark up the items were generally cheap.

Ahh good times.

I bet you like re-reading your cute witty non-substantial posts after you've posted them. I bet it makes you feel like you've contributed in some odd little way.

Good for you. There's a little bit to be had by everyone here on the PC, even for idiots like you.

:)

[Savageheart]

They do amuse me, which I find is the only pertinent matter. In the end most likely we're all just typing for one of three reasons.

1. We believe what we have to say is important, pertinent, and relevant, that ours is a voice that must be heard among the cacophony of others!

2. We desperately want to insult the target of our discourse in some embarrassing or demeaning fashion

3. We are trying to amuse ourselves and or others but in a pinch the primary will do.

You my friend take yourself far too seriously. As a duly appointed representative of the organization I can assure you the internets do not. The sum of your parts will never make an important or meaningful impact on any message board, such mediums are exist for flames, flippantry, melodrama, and the exchange of only passably correct information.

So lighten up, have a frogurt, and enjoy the rest of your Tuesday afternoon :aww:

[Anebriated]

lol @ savageheart

[Danical]

5 star thread.

Comedy Gold.

[dszabo]

So lighten up, have a frogurt, and enjoy the rest of your Tuesday afternoon :aww:

Frogurt? Is that frozen gogurt? That stuff is fantastic!

Ashuron

[Anebriated]

this thread definitely delivered with a few things PC hasnt seen in a bit. good reading.

[Gan]

They do amuse me, which I find is the only pertinent matter. In the end most likely we're all just typing for one of three reasons.

1. We believe what we have to say is important, pertinent, and relevant, that ours is a voice that must be heard among the cacophony of others!

2. We desperately want to insult the target of our discourse in some embarrassing or demeaning fashion

3. We are trying to amuse ourselves and or others but in a pinch the primary will do.

You my friend take yourself far too seriously. As a duly appointed representative of the organization I can assure you the internets do not. The sum of your parts will never make an important or meaningful impact on any message board, such mediums are exist for flames, flippantry, melodrama, and the exchange of only passably correct information.

So lighten up, have a frogurt, and enjoy the rest of your Tuesday afternoon :aww:

And yet you take the time to respond, thus continuing the real reason why I post on this online community.

I do give you credit for a well framed response, even if it was originated with the help of being in front of a mirror. ;)

[Crazy Bard]

The point of the matter is far beyond the silvers, it's the principle.

It's not like I refused work out the kinks, I did offer a partial refund. If I gave this gentlemen his entire purchase price refund I would have to do it for everyone who buys something uses it and then decides something better has come along and wants a return, not saying this was his case but it has happened before and there has to be some ground rules or else all you are is a pawnshop. Am sorry some of you will not agree but it's the way it is. If anyone ever has a question about an item in anyshop it's always best to confirm with the seller then to assume anything.

Any transaction I've ever made has been honest, not saying I don't charge a premium but my pricing is not the issue at hand, it's my integrity.

This excuse would have worked had this been the situation, but it's not. If someone bought one of the white ora weapons in the room that you claim the sign was meant for there would be no issues. Your sign however mislead someone into believing something else. From what I hear over the forums your a known merchant, but your set price says otherwise which is another factor that makes me believe you cheated this man 400k. The fact that I visited your shop, and saw no sign of clearing up the situation with the signs makes it easier to understand why you won't give this man a refund.

Dszabo, you tried to deal with this idiot. You approached him respectfully, and didn't freak out like many do. I think the least you deserve is a complete refund ..And a apology for such a hard time he's given you.

[Griffith]

I would actually give Koops the benefit of the doubt had it been priced at 50k or so. But Koops is a prolific merchant and he knows the going rates for all these things, pricing at the exact level of a 4 enchant weapon and then posting that sign in the other room is highly suspicious.

[Askip]

Unless I despised the customer or did not care about my reputation, I would give a refund to anyone who had a concern or complaint about something sold in my shop.

[Asha]

I agree with Askip. The guy didn't know and was understandably confused. Granted it's a pretty dumb mistake to make but it's still an honest overlook.

The rules of playershops generally state that you buy at your own risk.
Now wether the owner of said shop laughs at your idiocy and walks away, or offers you a full or even partial refund is up to him.
It's a general reflection of the service we'll all recieve from said merchant, and may or may not provide unease to future potential browsers, affecting his sales.

[Parkbandit]

A good merchant will protect his reputation above all else.. if he wants to remain a good merchant. Imagine how great Koop's reputation would be right now if he had come here and offered the guy his 400k back immediately.. instead of offering excuses. Hell, I imagine he would have easily recouped his 400k in additional sales to others. Now, 13 pages later.. Koop's reputation is at least tarnished to many people who will think twice from buying something from him in the future.

[Brielus]

INTO THE PIT WITH HIM!!!

[Griffith]

I don't think it'll affect him too much. He mostly sells his wares in the Landing, and I believe his shop is in the Landing. Most of us here are in Illistim or maybe Teras. These type of merchants tend to hang out in Landing, too many suckers there.

[Gan]

I'm in the landing. Lots of non-participants on these boards frequent the landing I bet. And not everyone who buys from landing shops lives solely in the landing. A big thank you to playershops.com for making that possibility a reality. ;)

And dont forget. Koops is now google accessable. :lol:

[Methais]

And dont forget. Koops is now google accessable. :lol:

And the result is:

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/8/84/180px-Koops.jpg

EDIT: And some poultry websites cause google things you mean KOPPS.

[Koops]

Like the majority of you I stand by my beliefs and don't stray from that just because they do not coincide with yours. Whether it be you not agreeing with my pricing or with giving a full/partial refund. It's not to say I have never given a refund or will never do so in the future, but it's at my descretion to do so. Each of you is entiled to your own beliefs whether they are ficticious of factual and until now I've held my ground and would continue to do so if for not this newly discovered information of this particular white ora flail being sold in a common shop on Teras Isle. I've not been to Teras in ages and while I'll come forthright and testify that my intend was not to shaft this invididual I do not expect many to believe my words since the vast majority of you will believe what you want anyways.

I'll elaborate on the flail since assumptions are being tossed around that I would deliberately stock a Teras Isle common item in one of my shops, which are incorrect by the way. The white ora flail was aquired from an individual whom I befriended awhile ago who decided to go the shield and edged weapon route. I gave him an eonake falcion free of charge, but my generousity did not sit well with him so he gave me the flail in exchange informing me it was from a past merchant event. I find it somewhat disturbing the amount of labeling and branding of intentions and assumptions that goes on without actually knowing the person.

So on the ground of the item being a Teras Isle common item I'll offer Rimerdall 1million silvers(his original 400k, an additional 200k for his trouble and an additional 400k to give to the individual whom aquired the white ora flail in an act of kindness) and my appologies for the item turning out to be a common store item. Seek me out when you have a moment.

I'd like to point out that my current actions are not placed into effect because of this thread, it's something I would have done anyways had he pointed out to me the item was a common item.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd like to point out that my current actions are not placed into effect because of this thread, it's something I would have done anyways

Rofl... my ass.


If you would have done it anyways and in the first place this thread wouldn't exist.


At any rate fuck it. Zimzum happens.

[Methais]

I'd like to point out that my current actions are not placed into effect because of this thread,

But if it weren't for this thread you'd never know it was sold in Teras shops....

[Bobmuhthol]

I feel better about the situation now, but the 1 million definitely was a result of this thread (I don't doubt that at least 360k would be returned in any other instance).

[Gan]

GO PC!

:rah:

[dszabo]

I have receieved the full reimbursement. Thank you for everything everyone, including Khariz, the literature you spawned was fantastic reading.

Ashuron

[Danical]

. . . including Khariz, the literature you spawned was fantastic reading.

:lol2:

[AestheticDeath]

Where is the flail in question?

[dszabo]

Where is the flail in question?

He wouldn't take it back lest, "anyone call him a crook again."

Ashuron

[AestheticDeath]

Let me see the thing?

[Gan]

I have receieved the full reimbursement. Thank you for everything everyone, including Khariz, the literature you spawned was fantastic reading.

Ashuron

Glad your issue was resolved. And welcome to the PC.

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