Hate them all you want, but...

[oldanforgotten]

God damn it the Pats look unbeatable. A drop of a relatively easy catch by Welker, another that hit Ben Watson?s hands, but it goes beyond that. The Jags generated 0 pass rush after the first play of the game, and their front 4 was completely shut down by the Pats offensive line. The Jags played incredible offense, especially strong QB play by Garrard, but couldn?t keep up. Fred Taylor was shut down, but they were able to move the ball through the air. Brady made what I honestly think to be 0 mistakes in the entire game. They actually ran the ball. The Jags had a game plan, executed it extremely well, and if you really look at it, they missed very few tackles, moved the ball on offense, and while Garrard did have a fumble, that was really the only mistake he made all game. The int at the end was more the function of the Pats knowing Jax had to pass and playing mixes of zone, zone under, man inside, and other such defenses to stop big pass plays.

Barring something on the order of the team bus getting into an accident that injures a lot of people, I don?t see the bolts even keeping it close. Keep 8 in the box, jam the crap out of Gates off the line, and watch Rivers make mistakes.
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[Sean of the Thread]

Meh minus my hate I'm not terribly impressed. Overrated certainly comes to mind.

[Skeeter]

LOL

[Sean of the Thread]

Overrated.

[Bobmuhthol]

It's hard to overrate a team with a perfect record.

[Stunseed]

That's difficult...Your team played 6 of its games in the AFC North. BFD.

[TheEschaton]

AFC East, tyvm. And even the Bills swept the Jets and the Dolphins, lol. And the Patriots swept us on top of that.

[Stunseed]

There you have it.

[Latrinsorm]

It's hard to overrate a team with a perfect record.Hawaii is the best college team ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently not that hard. :)

[Gelston]

I love seeing the faces of the hawaiian when their team lost. WAC ftl.

[Hulkein]

Hawaii is the best college team ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently not that hard. :)

Are you serious with this?

[crazymage]

I can see his point Hawaii did play some pretty bad teams, Patriots did too, Jets, Bills, Indy, Cowboys..

[Gelston]

Hawaii played a lot of shitty teams, and then they played Georgia.

[Sean of the Thread]

It's hard to overrate a team with a perfect record.

No it's not.

[Bobmuhthol]

You can't do better than perfect.

[Sean of the Thread]

You can't do better than perfect.

If a win/loss record is all that is measured.

[Latrinsorm]

Are you serious with this?Hawaii was the first undefeated that came to mind, but it is fair to say that the Patriots have faced stiffer competition, so let's say Ohio State going into the BCS title last year: undefeated and beat four ranked teams including the #2 twice. Is there any way to say they weren't overrated?

[Sean of the Thread]

Hawaii being undefeated means absolute shit. They played nobody and they're a bunch of druggie assholes to boot.

[oldanforgotten]

Supposedly the NFC east was the toughest conference in the NFC, and the Pats were 4-0 against them. They beat Pittsburgh on the road, Indy on the road, now Jacksonville. I mean, the Hawaii argument holds water when the team didn?t play anyone else at all, but at the end of the regular season, the Pat?s had wins over Dallas, Indy, Pittsburgh, Giants, Redskins, San Diego.

12 NFL teams made the playoffs. The Pats had wins over 6 of them, by an average of over 20 points per game. They also had a win over the only 10-6 team that didn?t make the playoffs. Now they?ve beaten Jacksonville as well. Exactly what would they have to do to not be overrated?

They beat all 3 other division winners in the AFC, two of them on the road.
They beat 3 playoff teams from the NFC, two of them on the road as well

Yes, they had 4 easy games built into the schedule with the Jets and Miami.

To compare them to Hawaii speaks volumes about how little you know about football.
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[Alfster]

I love the fact that the game this week is in Green Bay. I love how the stadium is literally in the middle of a huge residential zone. Everyone within a 10 block radius just plows their yard and charges 20-30 bucks per car.

I'll make a quick 400 bucks if the girlfriends parents are staying out of town for the weekend.

[Skeeter]

Hawaii was the first undefeated that came to mind, but it is fair to say that the Patriots have faced stiffer competition, so let's say Ohio State going into the BCS title last year: undefeated and beat four ranked teams including the #2 twice. Is there any way to say they weren't overrated?

If you know anything about football. Yes.

[Sean of the Thread]

I love the fact that the game this week is in Green Bay. I love how the stadium is literally in the middle of a huge residential zone. Everyone within a 10 block radius just plows their yard and charges 20-30 bucks per car.

I'll make a quick 400 bucks if the girlfriends parents are staying out of town for the weekend.

I paid $20 to park across the street of Ray Jay for the Outback bowl but it was well worth it.


I also used to charge $10 for people to park in our field next to the Blue Jays stadium for spring training. 4 of us that shared the lot (apartments) split it every week for a shit fuck of money.

The red area shows the money zone!!!! 3 blocks from the stadium we cashed nice. Even sold cans of beer from our porch.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/parking.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

To compare them to Hawaii speaks volumes about how little you know about football.I wasn't comparing them to Hawaii. I was offering an example of an undefeated team that was (nevertheless) overrated. Once it became apparent that people were taking my statement as a direct comparison to New England, I offered a new example. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you didn't notice this, though.

Incidentally, it's hilarious that you would cite margin of victory when talking about the Patriots while taking shots at what I know about football.
If you know anything about football. Yes.So you're saying the title game last year was what, a fluke? Ohio State was really the better team?

[Sean of the Thread]

I rolled my eyes at the margin of victory statement as the patriots have been very fucking lucky not to have lost a few games by the skin of their teeth.

[Tsa`ah]

I rolled my eyes at the margin of victory statement as the patriots have been very fucking lucky not to have lost a few games by the skin of their teeth.

While I think the AFC is in the bag for the Patsies ... Let's just hope Favre takes Brady to school and shuts down their bid for the second perfect season in NFL history (you have to exclude both Bears teams since they were pre-Superbowl).

[BigWorm]

Exactly what would they have to do to not be overrated?

Winning the Super Bowl would be a start. You Pats fans do realize that hasn't happened yet, right?

[oldanforgotten]

Winning the Super Bowl would be a start. You Pats fans do realize that hasn't happened yet, right?

Except I'm not a Patriots fan, I'm a Dolphins fan.

I never said they were the greatest team of all time, but they certainly have played some extraordinary football this season.

Yes, they won some close games. Wow, find me the perfect team that blows out everyone, and I'll show you the 1995 Nebraska Cornhuskers, the last team to do that in any sport. In terms of comparing seasons, I'd love to hear of who would be comparable in recent memory, specifically in the NFL, at least to this point in the season.

85 bears were good, but they had close calls as well, and they dumped a game by 2 TD's to the Dolphins.
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[Anebriated]

Closest I can think of in recent memory would be the greatest show on turf, and they werent undefeated any of the years they were together.

[Tsa`ah]

85 bears were good, but they had close calls as well, and they dumped a game by 2 TD's to the Dolphins.

Don't remind me .... and it marked the downslide of a number of players. McMahon just to name one.

[Danical]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AHRNKQXTL._AA240_.jpg

[Tsa`ah]

I miss Sweetness.

[Skeeter]

So you're saying the title game last year was what, a fluke? Ohio State was really the better team?

I'm saying one bad game does not make a team over-rated. Shit happens, teams lose. LSU / GA and USC all lost 2 games this year are they all over rated?

By your argument is it even possible to not be over-rated unless you win all your games? I guess every single team this year was over-rated.

If you want to look at it even farther bowl games should only loosely be an indicator of season success. All of them except one are meaningless exhibition games, and they take place so far from the end of the season that they are almost a season in themselves.

You shouldn't get all your sports "knowledge" from ESPiN

[oldanforgotten]

Don't remind me .... and it marked the downslide of a number of players. McMahon just to name one.

I think the downslide was more honestly because they went off and did a music video together.

The biggest credit I'll give the 85 bears is this. The west coast offense and play action became popular because of them. No other way to counter that 46 defense with 9 or 10 guys lined up in the box. Only reason the Fish got them that year was because Marino had a psychotically fast release time and held onto the ball until the last second most plays. So to their credit, they changed the way a lot of offenses played football, and they made the New England 5 step drop passing system look awful because by the time the quarterback made his 4th step, the ends/LBs were already on him.
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[Skeeter]

Was Mcmahon the last legitimate starter at QB?

[Tsa`ah]

I think the downslide was more honestly because they went off and did a music video together.

The Super Bowl Shuffle was ground breaking and completely destroyed that EZ listening crap the Patsies tried to come back with.

85 was McMahon's apex. Truth be told, he should have hung it up after he was traded. His entire career was a laundry list of injury ... in 84 he had the worse hit of his career, lacerating a kidney.

As good as the O line was, he was sacked 105 times in 4 years. The 10th sack of 84 ended his season. 26 sacks in the 85 season.

Walter was 31 in 85 and showing his age, though still ahead of the curve in league offerings.

Singletary, Dent, McMichael, Hampton ... hell most of the D and every other team had many members with a big step into their 30s.

The 85 season was largely a compilation of well seasoned vets. There really wasn't any other direction to go.

[Tsa`ah]

Was Mcmahon the last legitimate starter at QB?

You could say Tomzak was, or maybe Flutie ... but you'd be pushing it.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm saying one bad game does not make a team over-rated. Shit happens, teams lose. LSU / GA and USC all lost 2 games this year are they all over rated? LSU didn't lose any game by 27 points.
By your argument is it even possible to not be over-rated unless you win all your games? I guess every single team this year was over-rated.My argument is that a "perfect" team can be overrated: nothing I've said indicates that any team that loses was overrated.
If you want to look at it even farther bowl games should only loosely be an indicator of season success. All of them except one are meaningless exhibition games, and they take place so far from the end of the season that they are almost a season in themselves.I'm not saying anything about OSU's season success. What I am saying is that it has been resoundingly demonstrated that OSU was not the best team in the nation in 2006: they didn't just lose or fall victim to a bad call, they were absolutely outclassed. Therefore, for them to be described as the best team (7 point favorites ffs) would be an instance of overrating. Given that they were undefeated at the time, the only possible conclusion is that an undefeated team can be overrated.

[Daniel]

I was 2 in 1985, and I knew every single word to the super bowl shuffle.

[Tsa`ah]

In respect to overrated ... I don't think the Pats (as a team) are overrated in the least. A win is a win in the NFL and that's the only thing that matters in the end (unlike college ball), and that Pats have done nothing but.

I think the Pats O line is probably underrated where as Brady is probably a bit overrated. Brady has 21 sacks and 8 picks on the season. He couldn't have the season he's had without the O line. Honestly, that line with the receiving options Brady has ... Grossman could have had an incredible season ... and I say that with a straight face.

[oldanforgotten]

Any decent QB would have a good year with what Brady has this year, but that doesn?t make him an bad or mediocre QB. Ultimately, the difference between a good QB and a great one usually falls down to 10 or 12 decisions in the entire year. I?d hesitate to agree on Grossman simply because he makes too many boneheaded decisions and makes a lot of outright errant throws. Brady is what you see. He is a very accurate passer who makes good decisions and has a decent arm. He does not excel at putting the ball into tight spaces, but instead he finds the open guy and feeds him the ball instead.

As a pure passer, Brady will always be inferior to an Elway, Marino, or Favre, because they are/were capable of making throws that he cannot. But he has always been a more accurate passer and throws fewer picks because he?s more apt to find the open guy on a lower yardage route rather than try and fit the ball into a tight space 15 yards down the field. That?s what makes him great.

Yes, his line is underrated, and he may be overrated, but the fact is, to build a team around, I?d still choose him over any other QB right now to build a team around. Vince Young is the most talented (even with his shitty girl shot put throw), Peyton Manning is the best playcaller and does the best job of recognizing defenses, Favre has the best arm and the best downfield passing skill, but Brady makes the best decisions, and overall, I?d take him by a hair over Peyton.

On the other hand, where the QB decision is close, the line decision is not. I?d take the Pats line over anyone. I?d take their receiving corps over anyone. Get that many great players together, and they?ll set records, which is what they did. Defensively, there are a lot of squads I?d take over the Pats. The defense is overrated this year because opposing teams were playing from behind all the damn time, and one dimensional offenses are easier to stop than balanced ones.

The Giants have a better line. The Cowboys had far better linebackers, and there are a few of secondaries (San Diego, Jacksonville, Tampa) I?d take over the Pats.

In the end you can argue coulda woulda shoulda lost all you want, but they haven?t, and if they win the Super Bowl, that?s an accomplishment. When the naysayers, idiots and haters can find an undefeated team that didn?t have some close games, then talk. Relative dominance? They?re no 95 Cornhuskers, 2001 Miami (who almost lost to BC at home OMG OMG OMG OMG they?re so lucky, they?ve overrated, they must suck ass amirite?), or 2004 USC (who almost lost to ND and Fresno State OMG OMG they shoulda woulda wah wah wah wah lost they must suck suck suck, they got lucky!), but in the NFL, no one as of yet has achieved a perfect record in such a dominant method overall.

Personally, I?d like to see Favre win one more so he sticks around at least another year. I just don?t cloud myself with a bias when a team truly has stepped up and been great. Pretty much 90% of America will be rooting for Favre from here on out, which will step up to 98% if they make it to the Super Bowl (the only 2% against will be the folks from NE or SD).
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[crazymage]

In respect to overrated ... I don't think the Pats (as a team) are overrated in the least. A win is a win in the NFL and that's the only thing that matters in the end (unlike college ball), and that Pats have done nothing but.

I think the Pats O line is probably underrated where as Brady is probably a bit overrated. Brady has 21 sacks and 8 picks on the season. He couldn't have the season he's had without the O line. Honestly, that line with the receiving options Brady has ... Grossman could have had an incredible season ... and I say that with a straight face.

Although you are right on the O-line being Tomterrific, Brady was still masterful at the end of the year with backups on the right side of the line, including against the Giants the best pass rushing team in the NFL.

[Drew]

They look really good now, but certainly not invincible. Don't forget that if that Ravens coach doesn't call time out, the Patriots have a loss right now. They've had every break fall their way, Colts losing last week included.