Best Combat Maneuvers?

[solidusx3]

Hey guys, I'm looking to see what you all think are the best combat maneuvers for a rogue, and in what order one should train them in?

I played mostly GS3 and this is my first week playing GS4. I have a FIXSKILLS available which I want to use, but I'm kinda lost on which combat maneuvers are useful.

I did searches on this forum and tried to navigate play.net's awful excuse for a forum, and the only one I found that people agree is good is "combat mobility." I understand that Surge of Strength and Shadow Mastery were changed and are not as good anymore..? My question is are they still worth it? If so, how many ranks deep?

Please discuss any other ones you think are useful.

Thanks!

[Gan]

Need to know your build first. CM's vary with your style of fighting.

Are you a sword/board? Archer? THW?

[solidusx3]

Sword/board, currently using brig hence the 30 armor trains.

(at level 23), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use..........................| 102 24
Combat Maneuvers..............| 132 36
Edged Weapons..................| 150 50
Ambush.............................| 150 50
Physical Fitness..................| 148 48
Dodging.............................| 148 48
Arcane Symbols...................| 40 8
Harness Power.....................| 30 6
Disarming Traps...................| 148 48
Picking Locks......................| 148 48
Stalking and Hiding...............| 150 50
Perception..........................| 148 48
Climbing.............................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15

[Asha]

I still have 5 ranks of surge even though it's now got a cool down. It's not very long at all. I'd use it for any build.
5 ranks of shadow mastery for sneaking with lowest RT. And yes 2 ranksof combat mobility is cheap and cheerful.
The rest I choose for fun not neccessity.

[Gan]

Combat Mobility
Silent Strike
Shadow Mastery
Specialization 1 (with your weapon category)
Surge

Then you want guild training in the following to make up the rest:
Combat Manuevers
Gambits
Sweep
Lock Mastery
Cheapshot
Subdue

[Ilvane]

Shadow Mastery and Surge to start with, since you are younger. As you get older, in my opinion, mobility and silent strike.

Angela

[875000]

Key question for me is whether or not you time your ambushes.

If you do, then start with Surge of Strength -- get it to 4 or 5 ranks. Then start focusing on getting 5 ranks of Shadow Mastery.

If you don't, start with Surge of Strength again -- 4 or 5 ranks. Then pick up 5 ranks of Dirt Kick.

Silent Strike is not really worthwhile until after your 40's.

[Sthrockmorton]

Silent Strike is not really worthwhile until after your 40's.
Kinda fun for RP, especially as a rogue

[875000]

Kinda fun for RP, especially as a rogue

Very true.

After I got an attack enhancer and a hiding one, I started picking up "fun" ones. Silent Strike was actually one of them.

The thing I realized, though, was that until the 40's I just could not afford to use Silent Strike much. The other one I really like, and have gotten some good use out of, is Garotte. But again, you need to get to a certain place before it really becomes both fun and worthwhile.

[Asha]

Hey when I use Cman Cutthroat its success doesn't have anything to do with my guild skill does it. I'm tired, and pretty drunk.

[Amaron]

cman Groinkick is fun.

But I agree with shadowmastery, silent strike, surge

J

[Gan]

Gkick
Garrote
Hamstring
Cutthroat

...are great for RP or PvP. Not something I ever used on a critter when hunting.

[solidusx3]

Thanks for the input everyone. It looks like I'll be focusing on Surge, Shadow Mastery and Silent Strike from now on (I went ahead and got rank 2 of Combat Mobility already).

I have a question about play.net's description for the skills though. Here is what is listed for Silent Strike:
Stamina Cost: base 25 (-10 rank 1, -7 rank 2, -4 rank 3)

Does that mean from rank3 on, activating silent strike only costs 4 stamina? 25-10-7-4? That's seems really cheap contrary to what someone said about it being expensive to use...so maybe I'm misunderstanding something?

Thanks.

P.S. - Ilvane, you're from the same town as me. That's pretty crazy considering the size!

[BigWorm]

No, that means it costs:
25 - 10 = 15 at rank 1
25 - 7 = 18 at rank 2
25 - 4 = 21 at rank 3
and 25 for ranks 4 and 5

[Gan]

Dont forget Spec 1:
Adds +2 to Attack Strength (AS) and bonuses to CML attack/defensive strength when using a weapon of the type chosen to specialize in.

Thats +2 per rank (5 ranks total available). Thats like adding a 2x enchant to your existing weapon enchant.

[solidusx3]

So the skill gets more expensive the better you get at it? Seems counter-intuitive...is Silent Strike that much more effective at rank 5 to justify the additional CMAN points and stamina cost?

Spec1 does seem good too, I just don't know how long before I get to that.

[Celephais]

Coup-de-gras is the most fun CMan in the game.

[Gan]

So the skill gets more expensive the better you get at it? Seems counter-intuitive...is Silent Strike that much more effective at rank 5 to justify the additional CMAN points and stamina cost?

Spec1 does seem good too, I just don't know how long before I get to that.

You're looking at it from a player perspective. I think from a training perspective, the cost of the skill increases as the particular skill increases in effectiveness (efficacy).

[875000]

So the skill gets more expensive the better you get at it? Seems counter-intuitive...is Silent Strike that much more effective at rank 5 to justify the additional CMAN points and stamina cost?

Spec1 does seem good too, I just don't know how long before I get to that.

A few things.

Originally, Silent Strike was only really effective at rank 5 and with Shadow Mastery running. It was recently changed, so you have "more" successed at ranks 3 and 4. But honestly? You need 5 ranks, because failing to pull off the maneuver is either embarassing or disasterous.

Which means it is pretty much going to cost you 25 stamina a pop. Which also means that you are not going to use it all that often due to stamina constraints at lower levels, particularly if you have Shadow Mastery or Surge of Strength running. And, if you reactive Surge or Smastery during their cooldown period, forget about even using another CMAN.

If you are under 40, I'd seriously wait before acquiring this skill. If you really want a good benefit -- besides Surge of Strength -- pick up the Weapon Specialization.

Here's why: in addition to the +2 each AS rank it provides, it also provides a bonus to Combat Maneuvers. For guild skills like Subdue and certain Cheapshots, this can be very helpful in gaining practice ranks and in using the abilities in the field.

[Gibreficul]

You currently have 372 ranks out of a possible 372 for your training.

You are a Master of Sweep.

You are a Master of Subdue.

You are a Master of Stun Maneuvers.

You are a Master of Lock Mastery.

You are a Master of Cheap Shot.

You are a Master of Rogue Gambits.


Click GLD MENU for additional commands.
>cman info
Gibreficul, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 4
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Groin Kick gkick 1
Specialization I wspec1 4
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5
Cutthroat cutthroat 5

Dirtkick is awesome. Nuff said.

[Stanley Burrell]

qs, su and ws