Nieninque
12-24-2007, 04:54 AM
I play alliance on Dunemaul and am neither 8 years old nor a cigarette.
Actually, with the introduction of blood elves to the horde, I would say that things have pretty much levelled out.
Having both horde and alliance on Dunemaul, I can say with an air of authority that you face the same issues (pugs that dont listen...etc) on both sides. It's actually quite funny listening to people complaining that people on the other side have these mysterious scripts/hacks that give the other faction an unfair advantage, when in reality it is just that the other person was that much quicker than they.
In terms of alliance sucking at PvP, the racials for the horde characters are built for PvP and give them a good advantage. Take them away and I would say that you have sucky players across the board. The amount of players that are good at PvP are fairly limited, IMO.
Methais
12-24-2007, 04:59 PM
I play alliance on Dunemaul and am neither 8 years old nor a cigarette.
Actually, with the introduction of blood elves to the horde, I would say that things have pretty much levelled out.
Having both horde and alliance on Dunemaul, I can say with an air of authority that you face the same issues (pugs that dont listen...etc) on both sides. It's actually quite funny listening to people complaining that people on the other side have these mysterious scripts/hacks that give the other faction an unfair advantage, when in reality it is just that the other person was that much quicker than they.
In terms of alliance sucking at PvP, the racials for the horde characters are built for PvP and give them a good advantage. Take them away and I would say that you have sucky players across the board. The amount of players that are good at PvP are fairly limited, IMO.
I have a 70 gnome mage and a 70 undead mage, and the majority of pug BGs I play on Horde, we win, and the majority of pug BGs I play on alliance, we lose. At best the racials are situational, and both factions have plenty of useless racials. Escape Artist is just as awesome as WoTF I think, it just depends on what class you're fighting at the time. Overall I'd say most of the racials in the game aren't that great for pvp. WoTF, EA, and the orc passive stun resist racial are great. The rest are kinda meh across the board except perception, which is good vs. 2 classes.
Overall I think blaming losses on racials doesn't exactly hold much water. Yeah, Horde has 1 or 2 more useful pvp racials than alliance, but it's usually not going to determine whether you win or lose. Kind of like how Horde used to bitch about Alliance having an advantage in PvE due to fear ward and stone form and whatever else, yet most of the world first kills were accomplished by Horde guilds, despite their supposed disadvantage.
Nieninque
12-24-2007, 05:28 PM
I have a 70 gnome mage and a 70 undead mage, and the majority of pug BGs I play on Horde, we win, and the majority of pug BGs I play on alliance, we lose. At best the racials are situational, and both factions have plenty of useless racials. Escape Artist is just as awesome as WoTF I think, it just depends on what class you're fighting at the time. Overall I'd say most of the racials in the game aren't that great for pvp. WoTF, EA, and the orc passive stun resist racial are great. The rest are kinda meh across the board except perception, which is good vs. 2 classes.
Overall I think blaming losses on racials doesn't exactly hold much water. Yeah, Horde has 1 or 2 more useful pvp racials than alliance, but it's usually not going to determine whether you win or lose. Kind of like how Horde used to bitch about Alliance having an advantage in PvE due to fear ward and stone form and whatever else, yet most of the world first kills were accomplished by Horde guilds, despite their supposed disadvantage.
Cant say I blamed losing on racials. That's the only difference I can see between the factions, in the main.
I only do BGs from time to time now, but I win more than I lose. I guess the difference between my PUG BGs and yours is that I am doing them as a healer. That's primarily the difference between winning and losing BGs as far as I can see. Throw a few heals in and it makes the world of difference. I get in PUG BG's and when we start to win, pugs start sounding surprised, and yet for me it is something that happens more than not. We get people in our BG talking about losing 15 BGs in a trot. I havent done that since the old style honour grinds when I was pugging solo against farming teams.
Trouble
12-26-2007, 09:51 AM
Cant say I blamed losing on racials. That's the only difference I can see between the factions, in the main.
I only do BGs from time to time now, but I win more than I lose. I guess the difference between my PUG BGs and yours is that I am doing them as a healer. That's primarily the difference between winning and losing BGs as far as I can see. Throw a few heals in and it makes the world of difference. I get in PUG BG's and when we start to win, pugs start sounding surprised, and yet for me it is something that happens more than not. We get people in our BG talking about losing 15 BGs in a trot. I havent done that since the old style honour grinds when I was pugging solo against farming teams.
Alliance have pretty good racials for pvp (don't forget Stoneform and the nice priest racials), but yeah, racials don't make THAT much of a difference in BGs. Maybe in a specific 1v1/2v2 encounter, but not a BG as a whole.
I agree, the main issue is healing and suggest that the second most important is guarding. You can sometimes overcome a lack of either/both by zerging, but not always.
There have been times when I'm the only healer in a BG and/or one of the only ones guarding. I've even hit (and stayed at) the top of the AV heal meters just in the first 3 minutes of the rush from the cave to Balinda, SH GY, and then capping/guarding IW bunker. AB is horrible too, no one guards and the ones who do are semi-AFK (flags/bunkers are the new cave). In EotS, Horde in our battlegroup haven't realized you need to do more than hold two towers; either get a third or get flags. Oh, and in both AB and EotS, it's WAY too easy to pull people from the flags for a stealthy type to cap.
I've been real bored with my Horde toons lately so maybe I'll try Alliance to see how bad it really is. I can't imagine it's any worse than Barrens chat. I'll probably go PvE this time since I avoid PvP outside of BGs.
It's actually quite funny listening to people complaining that people on the other side have these mysterious scripts/hacks that give the other faction an unfair advantage, when in reality it is just that the other person was that much quicker than they.
While I'm the first to admit I suck at PvP, I do occasionally run into rogues (always seem to be NE rogues) in AV who blink around my screen while everyone else is moving normally, I figure they have to be using some sort of hack. I have a good connection and rarely lag.
Nieninque
12-26-2007, 12:54 PM
I agree, the main issue is healing and suggest that the second most important is guarding. You can sometimes overcome a lack of either/both by zerging, but not always.
Horde seem to be far superior at zerging than alliance. No idea why.
AB is horrible too, no one guards and the ones who do are semi-AFK (flags/bunkers are the new cave).
That's not new though. I cant even begin to count the amount of times I have capped a flag with people stood there "guarding it".
I dont know if you were on the server when Warpig was around. He was a really shitty rogue that capped a ton of flags in AB by being ridiculously obvious and just walking up to the flag amongst a ton of horde. Sometimes he got away with it. He taught me that people watching flags are not necessarily watching.
Here's my video I made of Warpig, just to show what he was best at (i.e. nothing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mG_v0vIJgg#GU5U2spHI_4
In EotS, Horde in our battlegroup haven't realized you need to do more than hold two towers; either get a third or get flags. Oh, and in both AB and EotS, it's WAY too easy to pull people from the flags for a stealthy type to cap.
That's my specialty.
While I'm the first to admit I suck at PvP, I do occasionally run into rogues (always seem to be NE rogues) in AV who blink around my screen while everyone else is moving normally, I figure they have to be using some sort of hack. I have a good connection and rarely lag.
That could be anything down to them having lag, server lag or the tried and trusted printscreen method of roguecraft.
Methais
12-26-2007, 03:03 PM
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