New addition to policy?

[landy]

You feel at full magical power again.
>report I need GM assistance please
REPORT should only be used to notify the GemStone IV staff of emergency situations or gamewide technical errors. Please use ASSIST for general support.


Message sent to all online game staff. While no staff members are currently on duty, there are likely to be several lurking behind the scenes to investigate your report. If you feel the need to speak with the staff, please type ASSIST for a list of options.

>
A perfectly round, black hole appears on the floor, through which GameMaster Bernt clambers. He picks up the hole, folds it twice, and stuffs it in his pocket.
>
Bernt says, "Good morning."
>'Yes
You say, "Yes."
>'Good morning
You say, "Good morning."
>'I think I was put in here incorrectly
You say, "I think I was put in here incorrectly."
>
Bernt says, "Hmm, SGM Lothwyn disagrees."
>'I don't see how that's possible
You say, "I don't see how that's possible."
>'I wasn't gaining experience
You say, "I wasn't gaining experience."
>'or repetitions
You say, "Or repetitions."
>
Bernt says, "He put you here after finding that you appeared to be engaged in long-term scripting while AFK."
>'Or anything whatsoever
You say, "Or anything whatsoever."
>'I wasn't gaining ANYTHING
You say, "I wasn't gaining ANYTHING."
>'And I wasn't being disruptive in any manner whatsoever
You say, "And I wasn't being disruptive in any manner whatsoever."
>'Long term scripting is NOT against policy
You say, "Long term scripting is NOT against policy."
>
Bernt says, "You were, apparently, acting as a "spell bot"."
>'So I was gaining what from that?!
You exclaim, "So I was gaining what from that?!"
>'It's not prohibited in policy
You say, "It's not prohibited in policy."
>'If there was something wrong with it it should have been listed in policy
You say, "If there was something wrong with it it should have been listed in policy."
>
Bernt says, "The character [NAME REMOVED]? Perhaps nothing. But it is against policy, as the SGMs read it."
>'You can't enforce a law you don't describe
You say, "You can't enforce a law you don't describe."
>'It's ridiculous
You say, "It's ridiculous."
>
Bernt says, "Because you were providing material assistance to another character while not responsive to the gaming environment."
>
Bernt says, "Just as we don't allow empaths to be "auto-healers"."
>'Because they gain EXP FROM IT
You say, "Because they gain EXP FROM IT."
>
Bernt says, "That's only part of it."
>
Bernt says, "In any case..."
>'Tell Lothwyn to READ POLICY
You say, "Tell Lothwyn to READ POLICY."
>
Bernt says, "Well, here's what you need to do to get out of here."
>
Bernt says, "Debating with me is truly not helpful -- I'm a Dev GM who just happened to be around."
>'Oh
You say, "Oh."
>'Well
You say, "Well."
>'I want to speak to someone who enforces policy as soon as possible
You say, "I want to speak to someone who enforces policy as soon as possible."
>
Bernt says, "You need to read Policy, top to bottom."
>'This is an outrage
You say, "This is an outrage."
>
Bernt nods to you.
>
Bernt says, "Fair enough."
>'I've obviously read policy, maybe Lothwyn should do the same
You say, "I've obviously read policy, maybe Lothwyn should do the same."
>
Bernt says, "I will give you a referral."
>
Bernt says, "Here is what he wrote in logs:"
>
Bernt recites:

"Please make him read policy when he regains consciousness if you're around and he's still in the lounge, and let him know that that kind of behavior is unacceptable. If he wants to run scripts, he needs to be constantly monitoring them and paying attention to the environment."

>'Well that's something I can ask him why it's not in policy
You say, "Well that's something I can ask him why it's not in policy."
>shrug
You shrug.
>'But thanks for taking the time to come and let me out
You say, "But thanks for taking the time to come and let me out."
>l
[Consultation Lounge]
The cozy surroundings of this simple conference room provide a much-welcomed respite from the chaos just outside its walls. You notice several plush chairs arranged casually around the room in a comfortable grouping. You also see a polished obsidian mirror.
Also here: GameMaster Bernt
Obvious exits: none
>
Bernt says, "Note that in Policy 18, it says : However, ANY activity that's deemed by staff to be disruptive or not in the best interest of the game or its players can be warned when discovered."
>
Bernt says, "So, this is the "best interest of the game" thing."
>
Bernt says, "I believe."
>
Bernt says, "But I will refer you to SGM Lothwyn."
>
Bernt says, "Or another SGM."
>'The word ambiguous falls short of describing that
You say, "The word ambiguous falls short of describing that."
>
Bernt says, "Please reread policy, then REPORT when you are done."
>
Bernt says, "And I'll let you out."
>nod
You nod.
>
Bernt waves.
>
GameMaster Bernt takes a hole from his pocket, places it on the floor, and steps into it, vanishing utterly.


So I read the policy and noticed a line I haven't seen before:

ANY experience-gaining activity while being unresponsive to the gaming environment will be considered against policy. AFK scripting of ANY kind is entirely against policy and is an immediately warnable offense.

Am I crazy or was that last line not in there until just recently?

[Stunseed]

You read the other thread...You know the one with the table scripters getting busted? If not, it's a real interesting read and may shed some light on your problem.

[landy]

Yeah I did read that, but I didn't see that new line addressed in the thread.

[Joe]

That line's been in there for a while.

[Asha]

They probably got pissed off trying to cover all the bases induvidually when they just blanket ruled the whole thing with the 'best interest of the game'.

You script AFK you're risking a slap. Just don't do it even if you think you're onto a loophole becouse they'll probably change the policy before you read it :)

(Although I mastered fletching afk and still to this day never travel at the keyboard. heh)

[Sthrockmorton]

ANY experience-gaining activity while being unresponsive to the gaming environment will be considered against policy.

Even if that last sentence wasnt there before, spelling others up to aid them in gaining experience is an experience-gaining activity. Nowhere does it say it has to be experience-gaining for the afk scripter. Just ANY experience-gaining activity.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Even if that last sentence wasnt there before, spelling others up to aid them in gaining experience is an experience-gaining activity. Nowhere does it say it has to be experience-gaining for the afk scripter. Just ANY experience-gaining activity.


No, it's not. They are just busting balls on spell-up characters apparently (Probably because you hog a table all day).

Using your logic, anytime I use a script to spell up I can't walk away to the fridge. Those spells I'm casting on myself may be used for me to gain exp at some future date!

[Asha]

I bet you'd still get busted if they cought you doing even that.

[Sthrockmorton]

No, it's not. They are just busting balls on spell-up characters apparently (Probably because you hog a table all day).

Using your logic, anytime I use a script to spell up I can't walk away to the fridge. Those spells I'm casting on myself may be used for me to gain exp at some future date!

I'm with Ash on this. That 5 minutes at the fridge would be enough to get you busted if you had bad luck.

However, I think their afk checks take longer than 5 minutes. Usually they ask you to respond to random in-game actions 2-3 times (spread a few minutes apart) and then they'll send you one [send] all yellow and give you a few minutes to respond. So I imagine with a 5 minute fridge run you'd be able to respond to something in time.

[Gan]

Time to pick up a house and do all your spellups there. Just make sure to daydream or sleep your utility character when you walk out of the door.

[FinisWolf]

Gan they check houses just like they do anywhere else.

I was being a smartass and thinking about this. If this is how they want to play it, then they could check you for being afk while absorbing experience as well. (Granted it is their script that is running at this time.)

-or-

If you are in a public area and unresponsive with the sleep or daydream script of theirs running they could nail you then as well.

It kinda sounds to me like they are wanting to push more towards RP, instead of the many blank afk faces that are gazed upon when playing.

:shrug:

Finis

[Gan]

Gan they check houses just like they do anywhere else.
Ah well, glad I'm down to 1 account then. I spell up when I the spells are available, otherwise I make due on what I have. Simplifying from running 2 to 3 accounts simultaneously has definately made the game a little more enjoyable.

Is this a shift by SIMU to start discouraging MA'ing? I wonder if they've considered the financial implications of this policy shift?

And if so, they need to start looking at places like the park, TSC, Town Center, North Market, Dais, and other gathering areas where heal/spell zombies are camped in broad daylight. They're missing a shit load of zombies by just focusing on the tables/houses.


I was being a smartass and thinking about this. If this is how they want to play it, then they could check you for being afk while absorbing experience as well. (Granted it is their script that is running at this time.)
Heh, I quipped that remark out in one of the other script busting complaint threads. So much for idle absorbption of your exp bucket eh?
:banghead:



-or-

If you are in a public area and unresponsive with the sleep or daydream script of theirs running they could nail you then as well.

It kinda sounds to me like they are wanting to push more towards RP, instead of the many blank afk faces that are gazed upon when playing.

:shrug:

Finis
/Agreed

[Tsa`ah]

I don't really see what's so fucking difficult about logging on your spellupbitch, spelling up .... waiting for full mana ... and then logging the fuck off.

There's no need to take up a table ... and let's face it. Taking up a table isn't really very discrete to begin with if that was your goal.

There are so many secluded and safe places in the game .,... find one and use it. Log off when you're done and you'll never have to worry about warnings, suspensions, lock outs ... or even dealing with a GM or host.

[Gan]

Waiting on mana (and private mana nodes) turns into table reservations when table occupancy/scarcity turns into a premium.

Table reservations turns into private camps when power/cash hunting and needing a place to dump boxes from multiple hunts.

There's more to it than just spelling up, waiting for full mana regen and logging off.

From my experience as someone who used multiple utility accounts.

Then you compound the factor when you have friends who are in game at the same time and use the table for the same purposes.

[landy]

Just FYI this character wasn't at a table, was at a very low visibility public spot.

My two cents... they should stop being fucking pricks about little shit like this, a paying customer is good for GS4, and it's not like most people with spell characters are a detriment to the game. I don't even MA, I just leave the wizard on sometimes to spell up friends.

[Tsa`ah]

I MA'd for a time as well, and I pretty much cash/power hunted. Waiting for 4-8 pulses and then logging isn't difficult. If you're a rogue picking your own boxes, it's not a stretch to have your spell bitch(s) run off of a script.

Overall it's just laziness and being inconsiderate to park a zombie at a table. It won't take more than 5 minutes to spell yourself up at the beginning of a session and it won't take more than 10 minutes to unload and refresh later on.

There is absolutely no reason for unattended zombies at tables or within view of the public. I think it's great that they're starting to bust people for it .... they should have been doing it from the start.

[B2]

I was talking to some staff the other day about this. These are some quotes:

Spelling up others while you are AFK gives someone else a benefit, thus, it is against policy.

Spelling up, AKA the Lich tap spell up, is against POLICY 18

Any benefit granted while AFK is against policy, regardless of who gets said benefit.

Additionally, these AFK spellups usually result in profit for the caster via tips.

Thus, AFK scripting == bad.

~~~

Soooo, apparently the company line is that spells are a benefit, and benefits given when AFK are against policy. Thus afk spells are against policy.

But what else is a benefit?

Is keeping five people logged in so you can do audience reps easily a punishable benefit?

If someone comes along, finds my rogue AFK, and footstomps her to get reps, does that give them a benefit? I don't actually have to do ANYTHING, but it benefits the other person. Would that be punishable?

Or being grouped with someone to get the group exp bonus?

Because all those are benefits. If I use a script to stay in the game, would that be punishable?

They had a perfectly acceptable line here. Now they blurred it. There's SO much grey area here.

Stupid.

~Becca

[landy]

Well that's one opinion

[Tsa`ah]

Why script to stay in game though? I can see maybe absorbing exp, but beyond that?

[CrystalTears]

If someone comes along, finds my rogue AFK, and footstomps her to get reps, does that give them a benefit? I don't actually have to do ANYTHING, but it benefits the other person. Would that be punishable?
No I imagine just standing there and them getting reps off you isn't against policy because you aren't running a script to respond. It would be the same as you being there and not doing anything because you don't have to. Had there needed to be a response and it was scripted, then I'm betting there would have been a problem.


Or being grouped with someone to get the group exp bonus?
I'm not sure about this, but don't you have to actually injure the creature to get experience from it?

[Gan]

I'm not sure about this, but don't you have to actually injure the creature to get experience from it?

There's actually an absorbing bonus if you're in a group, its particularly noticable when you're on node.

Every time our respective group would arrive back at our table you join up to get the enhanced bonus.

I believe Plo was the first (or Anthony) to bring this to my attention when I ran my rogue/healer simultaneously out of Shimmarglin Inn. Thats the same time period that we all used Plo's tap spellup/heal script. Good times, good times.

[Danical]

I'm not particularly happy with the Nazi like enforcement on these things.

Seriously, the bottom line is GS is supposed to be fun and it's just not fun when this kind of shit happens.

[Danical]

I believe Plo was the first (or Anthony) to bring this to my attention when I ran my rogue/healer simultaneously out of Shimmarglin Inn. Thats the same time period that we all used Plo's tap spellup/heal script. Good times, good times.

I'm nearly positive they don't have the group bonus anymore when on a node. Or, if they did, it's capped because I never got more with a group of 4 than by myself on a node.

[Nieninque]

What the fuck do you do at the fridge for 5 minutes?

[Some Rogue]

What the fuck do you do at the fridge for 5 minutes?

Dar has to fight off the kids trying to steal his lucky charms.

[Katt]

Yep, Lothwyn busted me for spell bots too. He said not only the bot get an official warning but all of my characters/accounts if he catches me. I don't even use them anymore.... all that time making the scripts went to waste. You had to be awake to activate their scripts too so was kinda lame.

[Drisco]

Why script to stay in game though? I can see maybe absorbing exp, but beyond that?

Migrating Skills
Protecting Loot
Claiming an Area
Crtl+R

[Gan]

Dar has to fight off the kids trying to steal his lucky charms.

Or he gets distracted by that warm apple pie on the kitchen counter...

[Donquix]

I think that line is new, however, if i recall before that it said something to the effect that ANY "long term" scripting was disallowed, and defined that as 10 minutes or longer.

[TheWitch]

Excuse me, but this is supposed to be a multi-player game, not Johnny jacks himself off at a table.

If you have bots doing all your work for you, fine. But I think its a Very Good Thing that something's being done to force you to possibly, just possibly, get out of automoton mode and maintain a little bit of the spirit of the game.

Yea, everyone plays for different reasons and gets enjoyment from different things. And if your thing is to be self-sufficient to the exclusion of any involvment with anyone else, fine, Johnny jackoff.

But you have to realize that by doing that, many times you are making the game much less enjoyable for someone else - by hogging the table you're parked at, leaving zombie characters in public places that either just sit there or create scroll with your stay-in-game script, etc.

Short-term, this discouragment of blantant multi-accounting may in fact cost Simu some money. Long term, it could be the better thing for the game. New players, looking for an actual roleplaying experience (gasp) will see less zombie faces. In the final analysis, five new players is as much revenue as five accounts that were MA'ed - the bottom line stays the same, the game is a better place and more true to it's reason for being.

It would also seem to me that the person who does this blatantly and with total disregard for the fact that it is being policed is just looking for trouble and will likely find it.

Why are they being nazis? Because one person running six characters, while profitable in the immediate sense, is a perversion of the intent of the game.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You sound angry.

[Danical]

^

[diethx]

They aren't shitting on MA'ers, they're shitting on MA'ers who violate scripting policies. Big difference.

TheWitch, if someone standing there doing absolutely nothing in a public place makes you enjoy the game less, then maybe you should either move your character, or be less sensitive, seriously. You said it yourself:


Yea, everyone plays for different reasons and gets enjoyment from different things.

Everyone pays for this game, the same as you. You really don't have any right to tell anyone how they should play.

[thefarmer]

[QUOTE=TheWitch;662861
It would also seem to me that the person who does this blatantly and with total disregard for the fact that it is being policed is just looking for trouble and will likely find it.[/QUOTE]

Because a zombie at a table is looking for trouble...

[Drew]

They can tell how long a char has been logged on, that can be a tip-off if you keep them logged in forever.

[Tsa`ah]

Migrating Skills

I stopped playing just before the transition from 3 to 4, so if that's the case then that's the case. I assume you can switch skills now, but it takes time to do so. Sounds like the system wasn't thought out very well.


Protecting Loot

Not even. If you can't carry it or you're parking a zombie in a spot to pile up boxes ... I have no sympathy if everything on the ground gets pilfered or all accounts connected get spanked for afk scripting.


Claiming an Area

I always loved when someone tried to claim an area, be it with a zombie on a script or just assuming that I'd submit to the jackassery and move on.

You have listed one valid reason to keep a zombie logged on.


Excuse me, but this is supposed to be a multi-player game, not Johnny jacks himself off at a table.

If you have bots doing all your work for you, fine. But I think its a Very Good Thing that something's being done to force you to possibly, just possibly, get out of automoton mode and maintain a little bit of the spirit of the game.

Yea, everyone plays for different reasons and gets enjoyment from different things. And if your thing is to be self-sufficient to the exclusion of any involvment with anyone else, fine, Johnny jackoff.

But you have to realize that by doing that, many times you are making the game much less enjoyable for someone else - by hogging the table you're parked at, leaving zombie characters in public places that either just sit there or create scroll with your stay-in-game script, etc.

Short-term, this discouragment of blantant multi-accounting may in fact cost Simu some money. Long term, it could be the better thing for the game. New players, looking for an actual roleplaying experience (gasp) will see less zombie faces. In the final analysis, five new players is as much revenue as five accounts that were MA'ed - the bottom line stays the same, the game is a better place and more true to it's reason for being.

It would also seem to me that the person who does this blatantly and with total disregard for the fact that it is being policed is just looking for trouble and will likely find it.

Why are they being nazis? Because one person running six characters, while profitable in the immediate sense, is a perversion of the intent of the game.

You wouldn't happen to be Witchaven would you?

I'm sorry, but it's a bit too late in the game for Simu to be concerned about the spirit of the game, let alone little annoyances such as screen scroll created by the display of just a name ... once ... when you enter the room. By definition, you're creating more screen scroll than an afk zombie ... unless they're running an instrument script or any other script that produces text to other players ... so that's a very weak argument.

Zombies at tables and zombies in the field "claiming" an area or "protecting" a shit ton of boxes were my only concerns while playing.

Hell, the only reason I'm posting in this thread is because it's pretty silly to complain about being busted for afk scripting a zombie character when it could have been avoided so easily by typing quit. It's not like it's incredibly time consuming to log back on to GS in comparison to any other game out there.

[Stanley Burrell]

Migrating Skills

Hold up. What do you mean by that?

If I sit at a table/my premium home/loiter and press CTRL+R and leave my computer on while I'm gone for the weekend, there should be a question of policy being broken?

[TheWitch]

No, I'm not Witchaven and no, I'm not angry.

And maybe it is too late, but I appreciate the effort.

It's simply obvious to me that if you're walking the line with policy, it shouldn't come as a surprise when you're busted. I have no issue with people that MA and do so in a way that doesn't disrupt the game for other people. I had two accounts myself for awhile, but it felt like cheating to me. To each their own.

No, it doesn't necessarily "bother" me to see zombies around. After awhile, you know who the zombies are and don't even bother trying to have a conversation with them.

It is, however, my opinion that the zombies have taken over and if the GM's are making some effort to wake people back up again it's a good thing. They're doing this in a lot of different ways, not just policy enforcement and IMO, it's all good.

[Latrinsorm]

Everyone pays for this game, the same as you. You really don't have any right to tell anyone how they should play....unless they're breaking policy. :D

[landy]

...unless they're breaking policy. :D

Still don't have the right nor authority to tell someone how to play, unless you're Simu staff.

[Latrinsorm]

Of course I have the right. A person's inability to interpret policy does not in any way impinge upon my ability to correct them.

[landy]

How would you go about correcting anything, given your lack of any tangible power?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Of course I have the right. A person's inability to interpret policy does not in any way impinge upon my ability to correct them.

Nothing you could ever say would "correct" me.

[Latrinsorm]

Note how I used the word "person". The power is not mine!

[landy]

You used the word person referring to the scripter, you quite blatantly claimed the ability to correct them.

[CrystalTears]

You can try to correct them, however you're right. Just let them break policy and wait til they get kicked out of the game. That would be awesome.

[landy]

AFK script leveling ftw.

[Katt]

They were a lot nicer when I talked to them but then I wasn't freakin out either nor did they actually catch me afk.

It is a bit upsetting they are checking some of my afk people who don't even have scripts going but since that night that I got a million checks they haven't really bothered me.

Probably because they realized just because I am using spell up scripts doesn't mean I am AFK. I also don't flaunt it. Everytime I bring someone to the table to get spells they are usually shocked to learn that I do MA.

I use a table for what some pointed out, loot hunting. It is nice just to drop the boxes and have my rogue pick them later. But I still keep that on the downlow some what by picking tables outside of town that are never full.

But really if you had been a little more calm you probably wouldn't have gotten warned and such. I'd be careful, just because you were kinda a dick about it they are going to keep an eye out on you.

[Kyra231]

So sitting in my characters garden house afk while she migrates skills is now against policy? If that's the case it's just wrecked imo.

~K.

[peam]

AFK script leveling ftw.

Seconded.

[Fallen]

Thirded. Why the hell not?

[Halstein]

I just find it amazing that you post getting busted scripting and selling an account in the same 24 hour period.

[TheWitch]

I'm not telling anyone how to play, I'm expressing my opinion that those of you who play Johnny Jackoff are not good for the game. Which is supported by policy, and that policy is being enforced. Which pleases me.

I'm not in a position to tell anyone how to play, you're absolutely right.

The GM's are in a position, and they are doing it. Hopefully they'll ban you sooner rather than later, if you continue to ignore policy and do whatever the fuck you want.

Grow up.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Man you sound angry.

[peam]

Man you sound angry.

I'm just waiting for a "GOOD OL' DAYS" tangent.

[That Jay]

Who pissed in her cereal?

Come on somebody, fess up.

[diethx]

...unless they're breaking policy. :D

If you would have read my first line in that post, you would have noticed that I wasn't talking about those who break policy. Still though, she wouldn't have the right to tell them how to play anyway, unless she were staff. But that wasn't my point. :D

[diethx]

I'm not telling anyone how to play, I'm expressing my opinion that those of you who play Johnny Jackoff are not good for the game. Which is supported by policy, and that policy is being enforced. Which pleases me.

I'm not in a position to tell anyone how to play, you're absolutely right.

The GM's are in a position, and they are doing it. Hopefully they'll ban you sooner rather than later, if you continue to ignore policy and do whatever the fuck you want.

Grow up.

What I find funny, is that while you do mention scripters being punished, you seemed to focus your rant at simply people who MA and not necessarily script. You fail to realize that THOSE people aren't getting in trouble. It's those who illegally script that are getting in trouble. MA'ers aren't going anywhere.

And while you may be of the opinion that people who own more than one account ruin the game, i'm of the opinion that tight-ass whiners like you ruin the game, which remember, IS A FUCKING GAME. If only being a tight-ass whiner were against policy.

[Asha]

GO DIETHX!!!
Seconded, thirded and fourthed.

[Katt]

Well she did say that she once MA'ed and there was nothing wrong with it. But then she enforced more than once that people who MA at a table or not are "Johnny jackoff's."

I'm not sure where she stands on MAing.

[peam]

I wonder if the name "Johnnyjackoff" is available?

[Katt]

You'd probably have to fuck with the spelling to get it to pass and not end up in the last chance inn. Jonijakof? LOL. Probably end up in the bad names thread pretty damn fast.

[TheWitch]

Since my opinion seems to matter so much to the lot of you, let me clarify one last time.

I have no issue with MA'ers who don't break policy, and are not a disruption.

Clear? Good.

I don't necessarily think they are the best thing for the game but I do realize and accept people enjoy playing in this way and as long as it remains non-disruptive to the other people in the game, and somewhat subtle, I really don't care.

Still with me?

While it may be fun for MA'ers to script their way through the game, it does tend to create annoyances for other people, and via going akf while doing it, it is breaking policy. Mostly becuase that sort of thing has a tendency to lessen other peoples fun, in various ways. I am glad that the people in a position to crack down on such things (of which I am not one) are doing so.

It's a game, yup. It's got rules, like any game.
Some people find the game more enjoyable when they are followed.
If that makes me "uptight", I guess I am. I'm fine with that, too.

[Ilvane]

Wait, if I read this right..you were spelling up people and not getting a thing for it, and you got in trouble?

How is that disruptive, at all?

We have idiots walking around talking in chatspeak and whatever else, with names that are pulled from Star Trek and Harry Potter, and they pull someone for this? :( This is depressing, and sad.

I'm all for roleplay and having people to interact with, but how is this harming anyone?

:wtf: Don't they have better things to do with their time?

Angela

[Latrinsorm]

If you would have read my first line in that post, you would have noticed that I wasn't talking about those who break policy.The first line of your post (which I did read, incidentally) makes it sound like you're talking specifically about people breaking policy. Regardless, "everyone" means "everyone".

What I find peculiar about your posts is your continued insistence about peoples' "rights" or lack thereof combined with your attempt to belittle TheWitch's concerns by saying it's just a game.

[Stanley Burrell]

Again... I've never ran any sort of table/idle spot script before.

I've sat at obscure tables, camped in my premie home and even hid in remote locations, then went to sleep, IRL, while leaving my computer on and having my character DAYDREAM combined with CTRL+R for a good eight or nine hours while migrating skills, at a snail's pace still. Always with just one character.

Did someone actually say/know this was in violation of a policy or is this = spin?

[Katt]

I honestly don't think that was ever talked about after migration was put into swing. I'm pretty sure the only thing the policy covers is being afk with exp in your head. Not that I really think they check for just that... if they do I've been lucky as hell for the past ten years or so. lol.

[Stanley Burrell]

Yeah...

[diethx]

The first line of your post (which I did read, incidentally) makes it sound like you're talking specifically about people breaking policy. Regardless, "everyone" means "everyone".

What I find peculiar about your posts is your continued insistence about peoples' "rights" or lack thereof combined with your attempt to belittle TheWitch's concerns by saying it's just a game.

Since you seem to be having such a hard time, let me break it down for you.


They aren't shitting on MA'ers, they're shitting on MA'ers who violate scripting policies. Big difference.

This is where I address her first rant, which was focused on MA'ers and not scripting MA'ers (except for the mention of people scripting to stay in game).


TheWitch, if someone standing there doing absolutely nothing in a public place makes you enjoy the game less, then maybe you should either move your character, or be less sensitive, seriously.

This is where I address her hate towards "Johnny Jackoff" characters who do absolutely nothing except exist in the game.


Everyone pays for this game, the same as you. You really don't have any right to tell anyone how they should play.

And this is where I tell her that unless she's staff, she has no right to tell anyone how to enjoy the game they pay for (pay MORE for, incidentally, because they probably have more accounts). While I intended "anyone" to refer to those "Johnny Jackoffs" she claims to be a perversion of the game, it's true that she still has no right to tell even scripters how to play. Staff, however, does.

As far as people's rights, I looked and looked and couldn't find where I told TheWitch how she needs to be playing the game! Her entire first rant was towards MA'ers who were not necessarily violating policy, which I called her on.

Later, I simply shared *my* opinion of her attitude towards what she seems to think is *her* game. That's how she comes across, anyhow. Having concerns about people unfairly gaining benefits from illegal scripting is one thing. Calling people who operate more than one account at a time a "Johnny Jackoff" or a "perversion" of the game we ALL play is fucking stupid. So sure, i'll belittle her for that. The bottom line is, if you don't like how someone RPs (or doesn't RP), stay away from them. Don't fucking come here and act like your shit doesn't stink.

[FinisWolf]

I'm not sure where she stands on MAing.

In a puddle of crap? She needs to get her story straight.

I have MA'd since just after my first year in GS, and if she or anyone doesn't like that I spend the piddly funds to do so, o well. It's my privilege to do so.

I realize my second paragraph sounds a bit hostile, and I don't mean for it too. Guess I am just sick of the whiners.

Finis

~ Merry Christmas All!

[FinisWolf]

While it may be fun for MA'ers to script their way through the game, it does tend to create annoyances for other people, and via going akf while doing it, it is breaking policy.

So let me get this straight.

ALL MA'ers AFK script? :cough: If this is your stance, you need to re-evaluate your opinion, because your are WRONG!

Finis

~ Merry Christmas To All!

[Fallen]

No one should be sorry for MAing descretely for services and spells. For certain classes, it is pretty much required at higher levels. For instance, squares at endgame without a constant source of spells are going to DIE.

[diethx]

In a puddle of crap? She needs to get her story straight.

Seriously, ffs. You can't go from saying in one post:


Excuse me, but this is supposed to be a multi-player game, not Johnny jacks himself off at a table...

Yea, everyone plays for different reasons and gets enjoyment from different things. And if your thing is to be self-sufficient to the exclusion of any involvment with anyone else, fine, Johnny jackoff

Because one person running six characters, while profitable in the immediate sense, is a perversion of the intent of the game.

To saying this in your next post:


Since my opinion seems to matter so much to the lot of you, let me clarify one last time.

I have no issue with MA'ers who don't break policy, and are not a disruption.


She pools the entire MA'ing populace into the Johnny Jackoff group in her first post, and then tries to deny doing so in subsequent posts. And we all believe it because we have our HEADS UP OUR ASSES!!!!!!111

[FinisWolf]

I honestly don't think that was ever talked about after migration was put into swing. I'm pretty sure the only thing the policy covers is being afk with exp in your head. Not that I really think they check for just that... if they do I've been lucky as hell for the past ten years or so. lol.

No joke. I rarely sit at my PC when fried. I have other things to do, besides watching that retarded bar drop to go hunt again. The only times I absorb and stay at my PC is if I am RP'ing. So for my seven years I have also been lucky if that is the case.

Finis

~ Merry Christmas!

[Latrinsorm]

Since you seem to be having such a hard time, let me break it down for you.

<long post>Just so I'm totally clear, what you've done here is neither an incidence of someone being a "tight-ass whiner" nor someone forgetting that this "IS A FUCKING GAME". Right? Vociferously stating your displeasure is only whining or overstepping one's "rights" if it's anti-MA. Right?

[diethx]

So let me get this straight.

ALL MA'ers AFK script? :cough: If this is your stance, you need to re-evaluate your opinion, because your are WRONG!

Finis

~ Merry Christmas To All!

No joke. I have several accounts and I NEVER script, except to travel between towns or to a hunting spot that's far off. I do everything else by hand, even tedious tasks like full four-hour spellups on multiple characters. ES gives me shit about it and laughs at my impending carpal tunnel, but I don't care. I don't like scripting.

[diethx]

Just so I'm totally clear, what you've done here is neither an incidence of someone being a "tight-ass whiner" nor someone forgetting that this "IS A FUCKING GAME". Right? Vociferously stating your displeasure is only whining or overstepping one's "rights" if it's anti-MA. Right?

Just so you're totally clear, what i've done here is take five minutes of my time to explain a post to someone who clearly had his head too far up his ass to understand the first time.

Edited to add:
If you can't see the difference between the reasons for and the content of her rant, and my responses to her rant, then it really would be a waste of my time to explain anything else. :)

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

No joke. I have several accounts and I NEVER script, except to travel between towns or to a hunting spot that's far off. I do everything else by hand, even tedious tasks like full four-hour spellups on multiple characters. ES gives me shit about it and laughs at my impending carpal tunnel, but I don't care. I don't like scripting.

When I MA I also don't script-- and like Evarin pointed out, there are a lot of points where MA'ing is almost required unless you have a horde of friends who happen to always be online.

[Fallen]

You would be very hard pressed to find squares who are not in the rift near/post cap who do not MA. Some wont admit to it, but the vast majority does.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Spellbotting is in fact against policy. The second line of the scripting policy says:

"AFK scripting of ANY kind is entirely against policy and is an immediately warnable offense."

That can be read to include travelling - mind those cross realm hands free travel scripts!

Spellbotting is also against policy indirectly by something later on in policy, "Exceptions: In general, if you are running a script or are in Rest Mode and are not gaining any NEW experience, skills, money, or an in-game advantage, it does not fall under this policy." - Spellbotting is definitely an "in-game advantage". Skill migration also falls as "new" skills.

Rest Mode and migrating skills can also be interpreted as against policy from " If you are gaining skills passively, a warning may be issued based on your being unresponsive to the gaming environment."

However, Rest Mode and absorbing field experience is acceptable. "Being AFK or in Rest Mode while absorbing experience you have already gained is not a violation of this policy."

[Katt]

Keep reading in the policy. Travel scripts actually can be done afk, I double checked when I was talking to the GM that came down.

[FinisWolf]

Keep reading in the policy. Travel scripts actually can be done afk, I double checked when I was talking to the GM that came down.


I've actually had NIR's stand on both sides of afk travel scripts. So it depends on the GM you get (as usual ... it's just not well enough defined; however, if you are not a problem customer, odds are they are not going to target you).

Finis

~ Merry Christmas to All!

[Katt]

Here are some clips from the log that might some light on a few questions people had. Since we had the GM down on a scripting issue we thought we may as well take advantage of it and ask him a few questions. He really wasn't all that bad.


Lothwyn says, "A spellcasting bot is an in game advantage if the player is afk. The script is fine if you're attentive, though. We've had complaints of people going afk and running spell bots to do services before, and we're checking on ones we fine."


******* says, "Ok, and travel scripts from EN to Landing."

Lothwyn says, "Travel scripts are fine."

Lothwyn says, "Policy 18: if you script moving in and out of a room, a warning may be issued because it causes undue screen scroll."

Lothwyn says, "The general consensus is--Running a script while not paying attention to it--even if you're in the same room on another character--is bad. You need to be paying attention from the perspective that is running the script."


Lothwyn says, "Policy 18: Warnings for scripting or any unresponsive activities are based on the Staff's observation of the character, and the Staff's judgment may vary from instance to instance. Therefore, each instance of long term scripting will be judged independently. Furthermore, GMs have the right to verify any and all characters are following this policy at any time."


Lothwyn says, "GMs have an assorted ways of testing for afk scripting, because some players have scripted a response to standardized messaging."

Lothwyn says, "If you've been checked for scripting before, generally you'll be checked again to make sure you're still following policy."
>
Lothwyn says, "So so long as you turn off the scripts when you step away or stop paying attention, you're fine."

Lothwyn says, "There is no limit on our checking, as players can go afk 10 seconds after a check and not be back for hours thinking they're safe."

[Stanley Burrell]

I would imagine that as a GM, you probably are obliged to be discreet. Always.

However, I'm going to use my authori-tah and state on behalf of ... Pliny the Elder, that sitting alone, DAYDREAMING, using the new sleep verb, and CTRL+ R, with just one damn character, in your premium house, in Zul Logoth, belled and migrating at 0.01 is not against policy.

If it is, karma is getting at you for strangling puppies in your past life or something.

In Soviet GemStone, AFK SCRIPTS YOU!

.

Man. I am way too proud of that :blush:

[Parkbandit]

If a game is more fun playing while running a script and being afk to do other things.. then maybe the game isn't worth really playing?

Just saying.

[landy]

When I eat steak I cut away the fat to get to the good part of the meat, PB. Apply this general rule to all things in life.

[TheWitch]

Oye.

If anyone is whining here, guys, its you. I'm not whining, I'm stating an opinion - or set of them, if you wish - that clearly conflict with most of your opinions. I'm okay with that, and why you're not begs the question, perhaps you realize that botting through the game isn't necessarily playing it.

Johnny Jackoff was in response to the OP, who was clearly violating policy and was lamenting getting busted. That's who Johnny Jackoff is, the MA'ing bot scripter who sets it and forgets it. GSIV by Ronco.

Why do I care? Frankly, I don't. Until it starts to mess up other peoples game, people who don't want to play GSIV by Ronco. Like the JJ who was afk bot scripting escort bounties, and was killing other peoples PC's along with the bandits. Now, that can happen no matter how the situation unfolds but if there were people, or at least a person, behind the bots the dead person doesn't end up decaying because they're out in the middle of nowhere and get offed by a JJ bot.

What's the big deal? Well, you (JJ, generalized) just really fucked up that guys game time. And you weren't even at the keyboard to RP the situation, or rectify it in any way. That's why its against policy, and that's why I point a derisive finger at the JJ's of the world and suggest they perhaps buy themselves an Xbox.

Generally, and I've said this repeatedly, I have no particular issue with people that MA in a subtle, respectful way. I think it's unfortunate that people seem to think MA'ing is necessary, in a multi-player game. I see many other alternatives, both RP and mechanical, to MA'ing. Perhaps those alternatives don't appeal to you, and as I have also said repeatedly, to each their own.

The bottom line is, in my mind, this is a multi-player RP game. I, and many people like me, like to play it as such. For every one of you (generalized) that decides it is a better thing to buy a character, put it on a second (third, fifth, whatever) account and bot with it, there is one of me who prefers to make arrangements in game via RP and interaction to have their needs met. Who preferrs to make use of my characters skills to have their needs met.

Again, to each their own. But it does not make me wrong, nor a whiner, nor an uptight bitch. This is so not about being able to afford the second accout, either, Finis. If you want to be that childish in your assumptions, go right ahead. I have MA'ed, and it felt like cheating, so I stopped. Not because I couldn't spend the fifteen bucks a month.

[Tsa`ah]

When I eat steak I cut away the fat to get to the good part of the meat, PB. Apply this general rule to all things in life.

I consider the fat also a good part of the meat.

[Gan]

I consider the fat also a good part of the meat.

^^

[FinisWolf]

This is so not about being able to afford the second accout, either, Finis. If you want to be that childish in your assumptions, go right ahead. I have MA'ed, and it felt like cheating, so I stopped. Not because I couldn't spend the fifteen bucks a month.

$15.00 bucks? Cheapskate. Be a real GS'er, and pay $40.00 a pop for each additional account. Our, YES "OUR" lowest monthly bill to GS is $160.00 a month. So if you are going to do it, do it RIGHT! :-) The top we have paid is $320.00 a month for accounts, plus the cost of the occasional event (min. 2 tickets per event).

Seriously though. I was not being childish. I stated IF that was your stance, THEN argued that IF. Get it right. TRY and be consistent, which to this point you have not been yet (well at least until your last two or three posts, where you are wishy washy on your stance).

Finis

~ Merry Christmas To All !

[FinisWolf]

I consider the fat also a good part of the meat.

I consider the soft fat on steak the best part. Best natural steriod there is!

Finis

~ Merry Christmas!

[Methais]

Bernt says, "Debating with me is truly not helpful -- I'm a Dev GM who just happened to be around."

You say, "Oh."

I lol'd at that for some reason.

[Trinitis]

>
Lothwyn says, "So so long as you turn off the scripts when you step away or stop paying attention, you're fine."

This is a total and complete lie.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=26488

[TheWitch]

$15.00 bucks? Cheapskate. Be a real GS'er, and pay $40.00 a pop for each additional account. Our, YES "OUR" lowest monthly bill to GS is $160.00 a month. So if you are going to do it, do it RIGHT! :-) The top we have paid is $320.00 a month for accounts, plus the cost of the occasional event (min. 2 tickets per event).

Seriously though. I was not being childish. I stated IF that was your stance, THEN argued that IF. Get it right. TRY and be consistent, which to this point you have not been yet (well at least until your last two or three posts, where you are wishy washy on your stance).

Finis

~ Merry Christmas To All !

I was never inconsistent, my opinions on this haven't changed in years, they're not going to change this week. Perhaps the logic didn't flow smoothly enough across the posts. Whatever.

That's lovely you're spending that kind of money on the game, I'm sure the Simu bottom line appreciates it.

It begs the question though, how much are you making back via character, item and silver sales for RL cash? As a general observation, people who have that many accounts are doing that sort of thing, which I'm sure not surprisingly, I think is a shame can't be stopped.

[ElanthianSiren]

Why script to stay in game though? I can see maybe absorbing exp, but beyond that?

I just saw this thread, so I'm like two days late.

IMO, it's a bit late to run toward the RP people that were ignored for MANY years in GS. I used to love to RP, and I hate it now. Hanging out with anyone but my core group tends to give me crazy headaches now, so I'd rather cash hunt/exp hunt in the short time I actually DO get to play. I can't tell you if I changed or if the GS consumer changed, and I don't really care.

SIMU helped create an obvious iteration system for GSIV. Suck it up when you lose RPers or people change styles IMO, but don't start browbeating because it won't accomplish much. This will always be an issue until there's an active reward system for RPing (not spot checking OH MY GOD YOU"RE SUCH A GREAT RPER!!!!1111one, but a real system TIED to rp).

[Katt]

I was thinking perhaps that is one reason RP has gone down through the years. I remember back when if you were caught RPing well you could get a whole month free of premium and such. They don't seem to promote it as much anymore.

[diethx]

I remember back when if you were caught RPing well you could get a whole month free of premium and such.

When was this exactly? I don't ever remember any free (premium or basic) subscription incentives for RPing. I will admit that i've taken a few lengthy breaks from the game over the past 10 years, so I guess it's possible I missed something this huge. It still sounds a little unreal to me though.

[Stanley Burrell]

I really can't stand steak fat on brisket, no offense. Like, the liquidy fatness. For a broiled steak, I don't really mind all that much, although I'd prefer some poultry, more specifically duck, to steak most days.

Beef ribs though.

[Katt]

When was this exactly? I don't ever remember any free (premium or basic) subscription incentives for RPing. I will admit that i've taken a few lengthy breaks from the game over the past 10 years, so I guess it's possible I missed something this huge. It still sounds a little unreal to me though.

Hmmmm, Early GS3 for sure.

[thefarmer]

Early gs3 didn't have premium

[diethx]

Early gs3 didn't have premium

Early gs3 didn't even have basic. Heh.

[FinisWolf]

It begs the question though, how much are you making back via character, item and silver sales for RL cash? As a general observation, people who have that many accounts are doing that sort of thing, which I'm sure not surprisingly, I think is a shame can't be stopped.

Boy you sure LOVE to pigeon hole/stereotype/ASSume things don't you. Once again, you are WAY WAY off base. :lol:

Finis

~Merry Christmas All!

[Katt]

well... early gs3 to me... lol. I have only been playing for about 8-9ish years. Sorry my time line is little screwy.

[Joe]

I was thinking perhaps that is one reason RP has gone down through the years. I remember back when if you were caught RPing well you could get a whole month free of premium and such. They don't seem to promote it as much anymore.

Do you remember the electroshock therapy as well? That never happened.

[Joe]

well... early gs3 to me... lol. I have only been playing for about 8-9ish years. Sorry my time line is little screwy.

It's not just your timeline. :)

[ElanthianSiren]

Early gs3 didn't even have basic. Heh.

:rofl: Were you rockin' the dial up GS screen for nostalgia early this morning? A few weeks ago, Bri sent me the old GS graphic from keyword Gem Beta on AOhell, the one with the stereotypical characters plastered on front (big warrior with a claid, SEXAY looking sorceress, imbred looking halfling). Ahh memories!

I don't remember GS ever giving away a month free for RP. I think you (Katt) might be thinking of another game; they did used to give a month free occasionally for buddy referrals, but I don't believe they do that anymore either. There has never been a comprehensive system to attempt to keep RP at a forefront. They've always said it'd be too subjective/difficult when this topic was brought up on the officials. They might be working on it however, as I quit reading the officials probably four years ago.