Start Hoarding Those Raise Dead Scrolls

[Fallen]

It seems both Oscuro and Estild are pretty dead set on removing 318 from scrolls. They haven't come out and SAID that they are going to do so, but call it a hunch that it is in the works. I doubt they would give much warning were a change in the works for this very reason. They don't want the spell available en mass due to people collecting/preserving them.

I highly suggest everyone hold on to all the scrolls with the spell they can, and have a sorcerer unlock them to ensure their maximum usage. Know that the spell is very difficult to unlock, however, so pick your infusor accordingly.

[CrystalTears]

GODDAMNIT!!

[Fallen]

Yeah, I am not too thrilled either. Making a class more unique should not involve robbing the playerbase to save in coding time and effort. They should continue to make improvements to the clerical/paladin Raise dead spells, adding profession only perks, and leaving scroll borne raising a bastardized form of the spell.

Clerics can already do amazing things with the spell if trained properly. Were my character inclined, I would always seek out a cleric for their ability to preserve EXP and lessen Death's Sting.

Instead? They will make Clerics super neato-cool by nerfing scrolls. Heh. Pathetic.

[CrystalTears]

Well I swore because I think I had one, tried to use it, didn't work, got frustrated and may have sold it in a pawnshop. I R DUM!

[Nieninque]

pwnt

[Necromancer]

they never said they'd do it. In fact Oscuro gave a specific reason why they wouldn't do it. Most GMs don't like 318 on scrolls- that's no secret. But they keep them for a reason.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I have shitloads of 318 scrolls.

[Gan]

I have a few too. I dont use them because I play a cleric.

:welcome:

[Fallen]

Be sure not to invoke them if you wish to preserve their ability to be infused. Invoking any spell from a scroll locks it forever. I say have them infused now, as who knows what the changes will actually entail.

Am I being reactionary on this? Probably. I do know this; When Oscuro says he is going to do something, or believes something should be done, it is damn near always done shortly afterwards.

[Fallen]

they never said they'd do it. In fact Oscuro gave a specific reason why they wouldn't do it. Most GMs don't like 318 on scrolls- that's no secret. But they keep them for a reason.

Can you please X-post this here, provide a link, or just PM me this? I must have missed it and at this point I wouldn't mind being completely contradicted. Their talk in the folder of late doesn't really give the impression that this could "never happen".

[Sean of the Thread]

You know as an infusing Sorc I had a bunch of these around and never used them really. It's hard to beat the raise vultures to the punch in all reality.

[TheEschaton]

From an RP perspective, it only makes sense that clerics (and Paladins to a lesser extent) are the only classes which can cast Resurrection, putting aside the mechanical argument of invoking a spell off a scroll right now. The spell is literally invoking the intervention of a diety to bring a person back to life. Why should sorcerors and empaths, who are not bound to some sort of worship, be allowed to use it?

And before you bring up CONVERTing to no god, those clerics are already hurt substantially by their lack of devotion, spell-wise. The basic RP explanation is that 318 for them is hoping some god'll hear them and intercede.

-TheE-

[Fallen]

From an RP perspective, it only makes sense that clerics (and Paladins to a lesser extent) are the only classes which can cast Resurrection, putting aside the mechanical argument of invoking a spell off a scroll right now. The spell is literally invoking the intervention of a diety to bring a person back to life. Why should sorcerors and empaths, who are not bound to some sort of worship, be allowed to use it? >>

You're going to have to nerf a ton of the clerical spells, then, to make this argument hold water. Start with Prayer. Then try removing most of the other attack related spells found on scrolls on the cleric circle. You start going down a very crappy slippery slope. Further, what is to stop other characters from worshiping the Arkati? Plenty of the most reknown roleplayers of the Arkati High Clergy are NOT CLERICS. That is a stereotype that has never really held water in Gemstone, nor do I believe it would be good for the game if it did.

I do not think the Arkati and the general pantheons be the roleplay tools of the Clerics and Paladins alone.

[Celephais]

From an RP perspective, it only makes sense that clerics (and Paladins to a lesser extent) are the only classes which can cast Resurrection, putting aside the mechanical argument of invoking a spell off a scroll right now. The spell is literally invoking the intervention of a diety to bring a person back to life. Why should sorcerors and empaths, who are not bound to some sort of worship, be allowed to use it?

And before you bring up CONVERTing to no god, those clerics are already hurt substantially by their lack of devotion, spell-wise. The basic RP explanation is that 318 for them is hoping some god'll hear them and intercede.

-TheE-
Why can't a non-cleric be devoted to a god? The scroll invokes the diety to do the work... the caster doesn't actually do the work, basically the spell is saying "hey diety, use me as a conduit to raise this person... k?" It takes spiritual mana control... makes sense, anyone who has trained in spiritual mana control understands how to channel spiritual energy.

You're only taking this stance because you're a cleric.

(I play a wizard and a cleric).

[Fallen]

Or how about the cleric was the one who inscribed the spell into the scroll, thus already ensuring the Deity's favor? There are a hundred logical explanations to be made. Why change something that isn't broke?

What I wouldn't mind too terribly is for Clerics to be able to bless 318 into gems, and THEN remove the spell from scrolls. Give them dominion over the spell if you wish, don't just simply remove it from the hands of non-cleric playerbase entirely.

[TheEschaton]

But why would a deity suddenly say, "Hey, my cleric X inscribed this spell on a scroll, and now Y wants to use it. But Y doesn't follow me. No problem though, X is a good guy!"

That makes no sense.

Now, if you could restrict it to people who've CONVERTed to a specific god, I don't think I'd mind that. My main problem is a spell which is somewhat attuned to RP elements being used by non-religious types.

And yes, my main characters are both clerics.

-TheE-

[Fallen]

Again, setting this president does nothing for the game, and opens up more problems which will need to be fixed for the benefit of..what? It restricts roleplay and makes an already limited playerbase less able to help each other.

[CrystalTears]

I could really use raise dead scrolls when I'm hunting with someone somewhere that isn't foggable and they die. Getting a cleric to follow you somewhere isn't always available.

It's too bad I used the scroll because it's useless for me now, right (assuming I still had it)?

[Fallen]

It certainly isn't useless. It simply cannot be infused, thus limiting its charges to whatever it genned with. Well, minus 1, if that was the spell you invoked. Remember, you will need a WOL scroll or gem blessed with the spell before you can use it. Make sure you have 8 spirit as well.

[CrystalTears]

Well since we're on the raise dead scroll discussion, how do you use it, since you need to link to the corpse first?

[Teavangelical]

My ranger is closing in on the ability to do this, which would be useful in certain situations. Though I wonder where people get these 318 scrolls because I have never been able to locate one myself. I guess I mostly just suck at being uber.

But crap, if they seriously are thinking about nerfing it, it changes my training plans. I could probably drop off my AS and half my mana control...

[Teavangelical]

Well since we're on the raise dead scroll discussion, how do you use it, since you need to link to the corpse first?

I have a Well of Life scroll; those are available as well. Isn't that the other half of the equation?

[Kitsun]

I think you're overreacting to the thread, Fallen. From what I've seen, there's little to make me think it is in danger of imminent pulling.

[Fallen]

Perhaps, perhaps not. I simply advise people not to part with their Raise Dead scrolls for the time. Note, I didn't use the words OFFICIAL, and I said they didn't outright SAY they were going to remove the spell from scrolls, only that I have a hunch they will.

[Kitsun]

My ranger is closing in on the ability to do this, which would be useful in certain situations. Though I wonder where people get these 318 scrolls because I have never been able to locate one myself. I guess I mostly just suck at being uber.

But crap, if they seriously are thinking about nerfing it, it changes my training plans. I could probably drop off my AS and half my mana control...

They're pretty rare finds out of the treasure system. I think I've gotten almost more box found items than 318 scrolls (which is only like five).

[Fallen]

Indeed, which is yet another issue I have with them eliminating them entirely. Yes, some people will be able to get them in bulk, but for many others, they are a major find that the treasure system rarely delivers.

Along with spells like Mobility, they have a great after market value, and you're nerfing the treasure system by pulling them as well.

[CrystalTears]

Mine is old. As in I still had it from when I quit in 2004, and that was the only one I ever found. Hell I still had a scroll with 813 on it.

[Fallen]

I love the old empathic circle, and nearly have a complete collection of them, 801-820. I will have to make you an offer if I find it is one of the spells I am missing, or did you sell it?

[Teavangelical]

They're pretty rare finds out of the treasure system. I think I've gotten almost more box found items than 318 scrolls (which is only like five).

Apparently so have I. I found a bracer that increases the INF (I think) stat that seems to be worth quite a chunk, but never 318. I've seen the Well of Life one at least a few times though. I even bought one at a pawnshop.

[CrystalTears]

I love the old empathic circle, and nearly have a complete collection of them, 801-820. I will have to make you an offer if I find it is one of the spells I am missing, or did you sell it?
I'll have to look to see if I still have it. I went on a selling rampage so I'll let you know. The only one of my characters that can use scrolls is my empath so it's not really necessary.

[Fallen]

WOL is a common gen spell on scrolls, and is highly useful if you have 24 ranks of Spiritual mana share. Apparently many do not know that you can send spirit to another living target if they have enough spiritual mana ranks, and you will never kill yourself doing so.

Congrats on that INF bracelet. Those +5 enhancives are very cool.

[Teavangelical]

WOL is a common gen spell on scrolls, and is highly useful if you have 24 ranks of Spiritual mana share. Apparently many do not know that you can send spirit to another living target if they have enough spiritual mana ranks, and you will never kill yourself doing so.

Congrats on that INF bracelet. Those +5 enhancives are very cool.

Thanks! I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth, of course, but a +5 STR would have been way more useful for my character. So it just sits in my locker.

[Fallen]

Put it up for trade.

[Latrinsorm]

Why should sorcerors and empaths, who are not bound to some sort of worship, be allowed to use it?There are plenty of situations besides 318 use that demonstrate that the Arkati (by and large, but especially Lorminstra) are total whores. What doesn't make any sense is for them to abruptly cease whorishness for 318 but nothing else.

[Danical]

There are plenty of situations besides 318 use that demonstrate that the Arkati (by and large, but especially Lorminstra) are total whores. What doesn't make any sense is for them to abruptly cease whorishness for 318 but nothing else.

agreed.

[Fallen]

A truly fascinating post by Kardios from the officials. I only took a snippet, however.
----
With regard to infusing Raise Dead scrolls, there is already a substantially higher cost to infusing Raise Dead than any other spell I've found. Infusing the Raise Dead spell gobbles up the remaining mana capacity of a scroll more than twice as fast as the second most costly spell, which is Heroism.

(For the benefit of Sorcerers who are interested in the details: 318 reduces scroll value by 236 silvers per charge infused, compared to the high cost of 114 silvers per charge of 215 infused. Spell 618, another highly sought spell of equal level, reduces scroll value by only 40 silvers per charge infused. Even when the cost per charge is divided by spell level, 318 is still the most costly spell to infuse, and 215 is the second most costly per spell level. And, yes, I'm still slowly collecting data and will post a detailed table on the Sorcerer boards RSN, probably within the next 24 months.)

[Danical]

:lol:

"RSN, probably within the next 24 months"

[Fallen]

Heh, yeah I found that amusing as well. Kardios is a smart cookie. I believe he did a large portion of the original Scroll Infusion testing.

[Danical]

I thought that was Mekthros . . . as he created the whole tutorial thingie.

[Fallen]

Mekthros was certainly also a contributor. There were many. He was the one who actually submitted on official guide.

[ThatDamnTep]

Official announcement.

Raise Dead (318) has been removed from randomly generated treasure (scrolls, magical items, etc.), but it's not prohibited for special releases.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." - Michel de Montaigne

This message was originally posted in Magic Spells and Systems, Developer's Corner - Spell Systems. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=18&topic=2&message=1436

[Numbers]

Stupid, pointless change. Just makes an already tedious game even more so.

[Sean of the Thread]

Agreed.

Fucking retarded. Makes you wonder wtf they're thinking sometimes.

[Fallen]

I hope a few decided to hoard these scrolls. Remember, DO NOT invoke them until you have had a sorcerer unlock them, or you GREATLY diminish their value.

[Teavangelical]

World of Warcraft is looking really attractive right about now.

If I can figure out whether it will run on my computer, I might switch over before month's end.

Not just due to this... but for a lot of reasons.

[Necromancer]

I love reactionary GS players. The sky is always falling in Elanthia.

If you're seriously considering leaving GS over this change; it may very well be in your best interest to do so. I would assume your interest in the game is fairly tenuous already if this is the case.

[Fallen]

I love reactionary GS players. The sky is always falling in Elanthia.

If you're seriously considering leaving GS over this change; it may very well be in your best interest to do so. I would assume your interest in the game is fairly tenuous already if this is the case.


World of Warcraft is looking really attractive right about now....Not just due to this... but for a lot of reasons.

Hm.

[Teavangelical]

I love reactionary GS players. The sky is always falling in Elanthia.

If you're seriously considering leaving GS over this change; it may very well be in your best interest to do so. I would assume your interest in the game is fairly tenuous already if this is the case.

Trust me when I say it's not wholly reactionary, which is why I said "not just due to this." I've been mulling it over for a while, and this happens to be a good push toward actually making a decision.

I don't mean to be rude, but you're telling me what I already know.

[Kitsun]

I think you're overreacting to the thread, Fallen. From what I've seen, there's little to make me think it is in danger of imminent pulling.

Doh. Talk about being totally off. If people didn't talk about it on the officials it probably could've staved off this change indefinately.

[Fallen]

Virilneus started the topic by asking for exp from scroll rezzing. I knew we were boned when Oscuro and Estild both chimed in posts immediately following that they wanted it off scrolls for good.

[Necromancer]

From what I know about the situation, this was by no means prompted by V's post. It's been on the potential chopping block for a while (as per posts that we've seen since Uliq's time). At best, the discussions on the officials were a reminder that this was due for a change.

[Necromancer]

Oh, and my apologies. I missed the last line in your post indicating you weren't thinking of leaving for just this reason. I was viewing on my PDA, and it's a challenge at the best of times.

[Teavangelical]

Oh, and my apologies. I missed the last line in your post indicating you weren't thinking of leaving for just this reason. I was viewing on my PDA, and it's a challenge at the best of times.

It's quite all right. :)