Official: Upcoming Animate (and other) Function Improvement

[Fallen]

>>All of the group spell casting critters may soon be far more attractive should Oscuro's hinted changes to spells turn out to be a method for receiving their spell bonuses, as well as being able to affect them with mass spells.

>>I for one am hoping, considering the rather useless state of lower level casting animates at the moment. - Evarin

That's precisely what's happening. Currently, the 419, 611 and 911 are in QC. When they go live, those spells will affect any group member, player or creature. That is, animates, animal companions, escortees, Sympathied creatures, etc. will all be affected when someone grouped w/ them (not necessarily their "owner") casts the spell. This will also applies to creatures casting the spells. E.g. an animate casting 419 will affect its sorcerer, a ranger grouped w/ the sorcerer and that ranger's animal companion.

These updates are extremely tedious, however, which is why I decided to do them in stages. 419, 611 and 911 are the first batch. Eventually, I intend to update all group spells, though.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[mgoddess]

Oooh, very awesome.

That'll make spelling up various "follower" animals/people much easier.

[Fallen]

Indeed. It will also make Cleric, Bardic, and Paladin creatures very, very groovy as animates.

[Necromancer]

god I heart Oscuro. I've been on his back about this stuff since he became a GM. He's fixed Censure and Mass Interference, and now he's got these three. Go O!

[Fallen]

Take a gander at the Experience from Raise Dead on Scrolls thread, Querth. That is one area where he and I cannot disagree more completely. The word diametric comes to mind.

[Danical]

Oscuro DOES NOT FUCK AROUND.

He's open to suggestions and willing enter into a discussion with players. When he says something, it gets done. If more GMs like him come on board I'd be a happy panda.

As far as animates . . . Sorcerers everywhere will love to get a Siren for their Song of Tonis. It'd be freaking nuts.

[Warriorbird]

Sorcs get...even more spells. They totally need them!

[Fallen]

This benefits far more than sorcerers. I simply posted it here as the discussion was originally in the Sorcerers folder on the officials. People spelling up their pets, escorts, and the like will also benefit. Heh, if you're so jaded as to think this update be modified to prevent sorcerers from eventually getting a few more mass spells, well. Have you tried the sorcerer profession? They're pretty groovy, and I hear we are getting new mass spells soon too!

[Warriorbird]

Yes. It was my single simplest Gemstone experience. It eventually got boring.

[Fallen]

Then why begrudge them a few mass spells, eh? They apparently could use the variety.

[Warriorbird]

Wouldn't a simpler/longer duration for the whole thing have been more useful? Varied ways of animating?

[Fallen]

Getting Nilven to provide AD with any perks is like pulling teeth. He enjoys the current form of the spell, which is to say nearly useless outside of massive training and actively working to incorperate it into your normal hunting scheme. As Necromancer and I have both posted from time to time, duration increases would be GREATLY appareciated, but will likely never happen. Nilven doesn't see the spell as something a sorcerer should always employ. If said sorcerer does choose to do so, he will have an annoying upkeep process to maintain. Requests for refreshable animates, reusable animates, and longer durations have been flat-out denied.

[Warriorbird]

Reasonable enough then. From a "not playing the profession" perspective I just don't see spells as something sorcs lack.

[Fallen]

Spell tanking has sort of become the sorcerer's niche. I wouldn't describe 725 or 730 as profession defining, as both spells are rather lackluster IMO.

[Celephais]

Spell tanking has sort of become the sorcerer's niche.
Which is my single biggest pet peeve in GS lately... this used to be the domain of wizards, because wizards were the casters expected to stay in offensive stance, now sorcs can hunt from guarded and spelltank like crazy... of course now wizards have reasonably viable (albiet mana prohibitive early) CS attack methods and Sorcs see benefit in going offensive stance...

[Numbers]

Until animates last longer than a fart, they'll be worthless.

[Necromancer]

Animates are far from worthless. Take an animated Scout with a claidhmore out, and you'll see what I mean.

[Fallen]

If it only lasts for most of a hunt, and the ingredients are a pain in the ass for the average sorcerer to get, then it doesn't matter if they provide a decent service. It simply isn't worth the cost to most sorcerers.

As I have said before, I was on the verge of dropping all my necro lore if it wasn't for pain Infliction and my wand. Animate Dead was really a non-factor.

[AestheticDeath]

Spell tanking has sort of become the sorcerer's niche. I wouldn't describe 725 or 730 as profession defining, as both spells are rather lackluster IMO.

I hear this from you a lot. How many sorcerers beyond yourself actually use a lot of scrolls to spell up to the gills to hunt?

[Fallen]

More than those that bother with 725/730.

[Necromancer]

Any sorcerer worth their animation salt in OTF or The Temple makes liberal use of scroll infusion. So...not many.

And though people love to complain about the difficulty in acquiring AD materials, the truth is that only moonflowers are potentially a pain to gather. Water and blood for 60 batches can be collected in 15-20 minutes tops. And moonflowers can simply be purchased from a ranger cheaply. In the past a four hour spellup has been more than tempting enough.

And especially with alchemy out, thungs really have to be put into perspective. I have no sympathy for high level sorcerers who complain. It's everyone else I feel bad for.

[Fallen]

I understand that while it may seem "easy" and perhaps it even is to make crystals, it is still a pain, and still most sorcerers do not bother with it. Whether that is their misfortune, or due to a badly implimented spell is a subject of debate.

I know of several sorcerers in OTF who spell tank, and they very seldomly have a demon with them, and even less seldomly an animate.

[Necromancer]

between the upcoming rp verbs (word is they're close) and the sanctuary updates (I think Oscuro said they were in QC, vut I may be making that up), demons should take on a new life in GS. That's my hope anyway.

[Fallen]

Indeed. It will make them that much closer to being worth summoning. I think a HUGE, HUGE fix towards making them viable is a warning for when your illusion is about to fall. We have warnings for several of our spells, some of them even illusion based (Eye Spy), why not demon illusions?

It isn't like Illusions are a gimme, anyway. They are a full fledged guild skill to learn, and even then are rather crappy. What the heck happened to THOSE fixes, eh?

[Necromancer]

I believe Oscuro is looking in to some updates to 725 now. So sometime in the future we should have some of those little tweaks we've been asking for. I know the illusion warning is on his radar.

[Fallen]

He said he would pass it (illusion dropping warning) along to Nilven, which is akin to putting an idea into a suggestion box, then burning the box.

[Necromancer]

I wouldn't give up just yet. A lot of fixes that have gone through needed Nilven's feedback. Just because he's light on the coding these days doesn't mean he's not still an active participant in discussions or nonresponsive to the other dev GMs.

[Fallen]

Hey. I would love to be proved wrong. Demons need all the help they can get.

[FinisWolf]

Good update. Glad to hear it.

Finis

[Danical]

I hear this from you a lot. How many sorcerers beyond yourself actually use a lot of scrolls to spell up to the gills to hunt?

Mekthros did and as far as I know he pioneered it. I'd have to say, of the capped players I've known from day 1 he died the least and it was because of he spell tanked like none other.

He also helped Wulfhen out with spell tanking as well.

Jesus fucking Christ . . . I miss those two.

[Numbers]

Animates are far from worthless. Take an animated Scout with a claidhmore out, and you'll see what I mean.

We're talking about a level 30 spell that doesn't become worthwhile until level 90+.

[Necromancer]

Yup, and I agree with that criticism.

[Numbers]

And that's my primary problem with the spell.

For a level 30 spell, it's absolutely absurd that not only can you not use it reliably until level 90+, but you've pretty much gotta be 2x in necromancy to do even that. Especially since it requires so many components.

Fact of the matter is, sorcerers can hunt just fine without animate dead. Using AD just makes it easier (debatable, considering all the pain in the ass micro-management the spell requires) and more fun.

[Fallen]

There are a lot of spells that have this criteria, really. Scroll infusion is NOT a level 14 spell. You will need to be much older or very specifically trained to make use of it. 650, Assume Aspect doesn't really seem to be able to be regularly used until cap, and even then some rangers say they cannot work it into their hunts.

Not all spells are designed to be used the moment you learn them. Some are, but then become near to useless later in levels. Examples of this is Focused Maelstrom, and a lot of the lesser wizard bolts. Sure, every now and then you throw one on for variety, but they will most certainly not be your mainstay spells.

The thing is, Animate Dead's problems lie more in the design of the spell than the cost. The annoyance factor, the lack of decent animates at a younger level with the MAL factor of non-necro heavy sorcerers, Non-BCS creatures...And most importantly, non refreshable/reusable animates.

I fail to see how taking a creature that has once been animated, and animating it again once it has died is such a huge balance concern. You will need more crystals, and yet another gem, as well as 30 mana to get it going again. It will also have lost all the spells it had at the time of death. Even if the duration of that creature was cut in half each time you reanimated it, I think this would STILL go a long ways into making the spell more attractive to the average sorcerer.

[Stunseed]

< 650, Assume Aspect doesn't really seem to be able to be regularly used until cap, and even then some rangers say they cannot work it into their hunts. >

At 84, I can't in OTF. Of course I'm only 1x in HP so mana can be a factor.