White Supremacy Group Plans Jena Rally on Martin Luther King Jr.

[RichardCranium]

The Nationalist Movement, which describes itself as "pro-majority," says it will hold a rally in Jena, La., on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

The organization issued a statement this week saying "Jena Justice Day to Empower the Majority" would be held on Jan. 21, 2008, the day set aside to celebrate the birthday of the slain American civil rights leader.

The statement says the Nationalist were "bringing their 'tools for empowerment' to Louisiana to defeat the demands of Al Sharpton." The events planned include a two-mile parade, speeches, ceremonies and petitions as a centerpiece to abolish King Day."

The announcement of the event follows a massive rally held in Jena on September 20th. The rally was in support of six black teenagers arrested in December 2006 and charged with attacking Justin Barker, a white classmate at Jena High School.

Jena Mayor Murphy McMillin says that the town had received information about the January event but that no application for a permit had yet been made and no permit yet issued.

Link. (http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=7276895)

[TheEschaton]

Oh, some white boys are gonna get themselves killed.

But I support their right to free speech.

Damn, they're crazy.

[Parkbandit]

No different than the first march through Jena imo. Stupidity and racism on both sides.

[TheEschaton]

You are incredibly moronic.

[Parkbandit]

You are incredibly moronic.


Classic.. coming from you.

That would be like me considering you brilliant or intelligent.

Perhaps instead of slinging insults.. which you tend to cry about when directed toward you.. you could actually make a point?

[TheEschaton]

Here's the point: considering the march on Jena by Sharpton/Jesse Jackson to promote equal race relations, to be equally racist to a white supremacist group marching on Jena to not only heighten race tensions, but call for the abolition of a civil rights leader who won the most substantive rights for blacks ever, is moronic. They are in no way equal.

-TheE-

[Clove]

Mychal Bell got a raw deal but both marches are retarded.

[Androidpk]

No different than the first march through Jena imo. Stupidity and racism on both sides.

Agreed.

[Gan]

No different than the first march through Jena imo. Stupidity and racism on both sides.

x2

[Parkbandit]

Here's the point: considering the march on Jena by Sharpton/Jesse Jackson to promote equal race relations, to be equally racist to a white supremacist group marching on Jena to not only heighten race tensions, but call for the abolition of a civil rights leader who won the most substantive rights for blacks ever, is moronic. They are in no way equal.

-TheE-


Do you honestly believe the bullshit you post.. or do you post bullshit to get a rise out of normal people?

An honest answer would suffice here from you.

[TheEschaton]

I honestly believe that you cannot equate this particular white supremacist's march with Sharpton/Jackson's march, in terms of how racist it is.

-TheE-

[Tsa`ah]

That only people like Sharpton would march should be enough to show that they were the only group(s) willing to suck up the PR for a social injustice. There would be no need for the Sharpton's and Jackson's if every day people would stand up for social injustice as it happened.

What these 6 kids did deserved punishment, as well as every incident leading to it .... however, justice was never done in any case ... nor was justice in mind from the onset of the incident that sparked all of this.

While I think Sharpton and Jackson are nothing but opportunistic media whores who love to extort money ... no one else bothered to escalate the issue.

A white supremacy group marching on Jena is not the same, nor can it be logically compared to black groups marching in Jena. There was a string of injustices based on skin color. It wasn't until the black people raised enough fuss about that the rest of the country cared about.

Where is the injustice that this white supremacy group marches for? Where white kids charged with crimes that have the potential to see them incarcerated until middle age or longer?

[CrystalTears]

Yeah let's argue over how much more stupid one event is over another.

[Artha]

If there's one thing the majority needs, it's more support.

[Tsa`ah]

Yeah let's argue over how much more stupid one event is over another.

Which event was stupid?

The event where 6 teens were under prosecution for attempted murder instead of being tried as dumb ass teens for assault?

Or maybe the event where a white kid pulled a firearm on some black kids and was never charged?

Maybe the event where the prosecutor addressed the student body, specifically the black kids upset over nooses strung up in a tree, and told them he could take their lives away with a pen stroke?

I find it stupid that BET brought these 6 kids out on an award show to "honor" them. I find it stupid that because the parish prosecution was so racist and inept ... these 6 kids will never really be brought to justice for assault.

I also find it incredibly stupid that a march for justice is labeled as stupid as a march to incite racial strife and racial superiority.

[CrystalTears]

No different than the first march through Jena imo. Stupidity and racism on both sides.


Mychal Bell got a raw deal but both marches are retarded.


Agreed.


x2

What, I can't agree with them now? Tough crowd.

[Davenshire]

Do you honestly believe the bullshit you post.. or do you post bullshit to get a rise out of normal people?

An honest answer would suffice here from you.


Normal people? hahahahahaha. You're a fucking idiot Parkbandit. Are you actually trying to say you are the norm? This.... really scares me.

IT IS A SUPREMECIST GROUP marching. You can gripe all oyu want about sharpton and gang marching for being in the spot light, go ahead. There is a big difference when you get a bunch of nazi loving cross burning freaks marhcing down there. They aren't looking for anyhting but to sew discord and cause a flare up.

Are you marching with them Parkbandit? Go bleach your sheets!

[Tsa`ah]

What, I can't agree with them now? Tough crowd.

So you believe 6 teens should have been tried as adults for attempted murder, none of the white kids involved in incidents leading up to this, nor the prosecutor were in the wrong and nothing should have been said, let alone done in an effort made to seek equality in justice? It was only the black people making a fuss over nothing? The white folk were obviously innocent, the blacks were guilty ... and this is just drumming up race bullshit?

I see.

[CrystalTears]

Yep, let's make assumptions about how I feel with the way this situation was handled because I don't agree with the marches. I'll let someone else who didn't agree with either march argue with you. I get tired of it.

[TheEschaton]

I can see how you can see how Sharpton/Jackson's march was a bunch of PR BS.

But I cannot see how you can equate the two marches with each other, because their goals are vastly different - one was promoting actual justice, one is promoting idiotic racism.

[Davenshire]

I can see how you can see how Sharpton/Jackson's march was a bunch of PR BS.

But I cannot see how you can equate the two marches with each other, because their goals are vastly different - one was promoting actual justice, one is promoting idiotic racism.

Exactly.

[Androidpk]

The white supremist march is incredibly stupid and serves no purpose. The same thing goes for both Sharpton and Jackson who, in my opinion, do nothing BUT fan the flames on racial injustice.


http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/monthly_10_2007/post-5490-1191357595_thumb.jpg

[TheEschaton]

They bring attention to racial injustice, whether it be in a good way or bad.

[DeV]

While I think Sharpton and Jackson are nothing but opportunistic media whores who love to extort money ... no one else bothered to escalate the issue.



The white supremacists should have beat them to the punch and organized a march in support of the initial punishment for the black teens. That would have done the trick. Fucking idiots.

[Artha]

They bring attention to racial injustice, whether it be in a good way or bad.

They also blind a lot of people to it, as evidenced in this thread, by doing it the wrong way.

[Parkbandit]

Normal people? hahahahahaha. You're a fucking idiot Parkbandit. Are you actually trying to say you are the norm? This.... really scares me.

IT IS A SUPREMECIST GROUP marching. You can gripe all oyu want about sharpton and gang marching for being in the spot light, go ahead. There is a big difference when you get a bunch of nazi loving cross burning freaks marhcing down there. They aren't looking for anyhting but to sew discord and cause a flare up.

Are you marching with them Parkbandit? Go bleach your sheets!

Yea.. because I should do the "PC"thing like you and support known racists like Sharpton and Jackson and claim that they are only doing what is in the best interest of all.

I'm far more normal than you will ever hope to be.. whoever you are.

[Parkbandit]

So you believe 6 teens should have been tried as adults for attempted murder, none of the white kids involved in incidents leading up to this, nor the prosecutor were in the wrong and nothing should have been said, let alone done in an effort made to seek equality in justice? It was only the black people making a fuss over nothing? The white folk were obviously innocent, the blacks were guilty ... and this is just drumming up race bullshit?

I see.

You shouldn't get all of your 'facts' from the case from www.sharpton.com or www.jackson.com.

You make it sound like these 6 'victims' were just walking around.. got into a fight with this mean old white kid and things got out of control.. instead of what actually happened: A premeditated ambush and a ruthless beating.

I also bet you believe that the 'white' tree was for white people only.. and that the nooses were put there to keep the blacks out from under the white tree.

[LazyBard]

You make it sound like these 6 'victims' were just walking around.. got into a fight with this mean old white kid and things got out of control.. instead of what actually happened: A premeditated ambush and a ruthless beating.

I also bet you believe that the 'white' tree was for white people only.. and that the nooses were put there to keep the blacks out from under the white tree.

First off I don't believe that it was just a fight. And I do think the black kids should have faced jail time but not to the extent that they were facing under the attempted murder charges.

But as someone of mixed (black and white) race who grew up in the south there is only 1 reason to hang a noose from that tree. And that is to send a message to the black students. It wasn't a innocent practical joke and if you belive that you really have your head in the sand this time.

[Jazuela]

Sharpton and Jackson create racial injustice wherever they roam. If it isn't already there, they'll make something up and take a stand against it. Their issues against "the white man who pulls us black brothas down" is equally as inane as the white supremacists who insist "them thar neegrahs" should go back to Africa and leave God-fearing white people alone.

Both sides are racist. One against whites, one against blacks. Both totally fucked up any possible chance of "justice" for the Jena 6 AND for the kids who put the nooses on the tree, and for the kid they beat up. Fair trial for either side? Are you kidding? Not gonna happen. You can thank Sharpton, Jackson, and the *other* supremacists for that.

[Warriorbird]

Complicated mix of issues here.

Once again we have Republicans waving the "White supremacists are the same as pro black leaders" idea. Man. I guess segregation will rise again.

Just because Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are involved in something does not eliminate the reasons they show up to places.

There should've been some agg battery charges by Louisiana standards. There weren't. There should've been a whole lot of suspensions of white kids. There weren't. You wonder why the black community is mad?

Somehow blaming the racially motivated prosecution on black people is fucking stupid.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Jazuela
Sharpton and Jackson create racial injustice wherever they roam. If it isn't already there, they'll make something up and take a stand against it. Their issues against "the white man who pulls us black brothas down" is equally as inane as the white supremacists who insist "them thar neegrahs" should go back to Africa and leave God-fearing white people alone.

What racial injustice did the fabricate in this instance?

[Parkbandit]

Complicated mix of issues here.

Once again we have Republicans waving the "White supremacists are the same as pro black leaders" idea. Man. I guess segregation will rise again.

Just because Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are involved in something does not eliminate the reasons they show up to places.

There should've been some agg assault and battery charges by Louisiana standards. There weren't. There should've been a whole lot of suspensions of white kids. There weren't. You wonder why the black community is mad?

Somehow blaming the racially motivated prosecution on black people is fucking stupid.

Once again we have Democrats waving the "Pro black leaders are the answer to all the black troubles in the world" idea. Man. I guess affirmative action will rise again.

Just because Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are involved in something most likely means that there is a racial shakedown and racial blackmail going on.

Somehow pulling out the it must be racism card because you didn't like the verdict is fucking stupid.

[DeV]

What racial injustice did the fabricate in this instance?
Inquiring minds really want to know. Looking forward to your answer, Jazuela.

[Warriorbird]

Uhm... what, Parkbandit?

Even crazed local conservatives think there was a sentencing disparity/punishment disparity between the white kids and the black kids in the entire situation. The main local Republican beef is that the Jena 6 shouldn't be freed...just charged better.

I'm sorry you don't believe in anything but "reverse racism."

Some of us live in the real world though.

So far only one verdict was given and it got overturned. You seem to have even less grasp of the situation that the "Free the Jena 6" people.

"Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson wuz thar! Ah gots to protect tha whate people!"

[Parkbandit]

Uhm... what, Parkbandit?

Even crazed local conservatives think there was a sentencing disparity/punishment disparity between the white kids and the black kids in the entire situation. The main local Republican beef is that the Jena 6 shouldn't be freed...just charged better.

I'm sorry you don't believe in anything but "reverse racism."

Some of us live in the real world though.

So far only one verdict was given and it got overturned. You seem to have even less grasp of the situation that the "Free the Jena 6" people.

"Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson wuz thar! Ah gots to protect tha whate people!"

Um, what WB?

I'm sorry you don't believe in anything but racism can only originate from a white person.

"Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson wuz thar! They r gonna make sure us black folks are protected, cause we need them ther!"

[Parkbandit]

Inquiring minds really want to know. Looking forward to your answer, Jazuela.

I'll help here out:

1) Noose was never proven that it was a signal from the white kids to the black kids to stay out of their white only tree.

2) It was never proven that there even was a white only tree, as many of the teachers and the Principle testified that blacks and whites have sat under this sinful tree.

3) It was inferred that the fight in question was a schoolyard fight that went too far.. instead of a premeditated ambush and brutal attempted murder.


Those are just 3 off the top of my head.

[Warriorbird]

I just try to look at the facts of a situation before I make statements. I'm sorry that the mere existence of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton somehow mitigates any instance of racism to you. It helps that I'm actually taking Louisiana criminal law right now. We've been discussing this situation since before Jackson and Sharpton were anywhere near.

[DeV]

I'll help here out:Newsflash, you're not Jazuela, bitch.

[Parkbandit]

Newsflash, you're not Jazuela, bitch.

Oh.. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to give her then answers.

Sorry to ruin your fun. Bitch.

[Parkbandit]

I just try to look at the facts of a situation before I make statements. I'm sorry that the mere existence of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton somehow mitigates any instance of racism to you. It helps that I'm actually taking Louisiana criminal law right now. We've been discussing this situation since before Jackson and Sharpton were anywhere near.


OMG I almost missed this post. Are you fucking serious? You try to look at the facts before making a statement? Dude.. do yourself a favor and put this in italics before people start pulling your past posts and making you look more retarded than normal.

Also, you are going to be a lawyer? LOL.. that clears up alot of questions I had.

[DeV]

Oh.. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to give her then answers.You failed to answer the question. Nice try though, Jazuela Jr.

[Warriorbird]

:smirks:

I think agg battery was a question for a jury to decide and they decided it. I find it noteworthy that the level of charge was dropped on Bell before it went to trial. That's not something that a DA in Louisiana would usually do. Attempted murder? Yeah. If these six teens were such bad influences, why wouldn't they have just gotten a weapon apart from tennis shoes?

Are you going to be totally unqualified to judge criminal cases? Yeah, that clears up some questions I had. Are you going to equate white supremacy with instances of people trying to fight against racism?

Yeah... that makes you pretty fucking pathetic.

"Nooses mean nothing in the Deep South!"

:rolls eyes:

"White supremacy is okay because of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton!"

EDIT: ...and just as an added note, Parkbandit? This is an example of me criticizing a Democratic D.A.

[Parkbandit]

You failed to answer the question. Nice try though, Jazuela Jr.

My pardon that they weren't the answers you wanted to hear.. or could understand. Did you want me to fabricate them again.. or just dumb them down for you?

Newsflash.. either case, you are still a dumb bitch.

[Parkbandit]

:smirks:

I think agg battery was a question for a jury to decide and they decided it. I find it noteworthy that the level of charge was dropped on Bell before it went to trial. That's not something that a DA in Louisiana would usually do. Attempted murder? Yeah. If these six teens were such bad influences, why wouldn't they have just gotten a weapon apart from tennis shoes?

Are you going to be totally unqualified to judge criminal cases? Yeah, that clears up some questions I had. Are you going to equate white supremacy with instances of people trying to fight against racism?

Yeah... that makes you pretty fucking pathetic.

"Nooses mean nothing in the Deep South!"

:rolls eyes:

"White supremacy is okay because of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton!"


I find white supremacists to be retarded. I find black victimizers to be equally retarded.

I find you pathetic

"It has to be racist because there was a black and there was a white"

Now all we need is Daniel to pop in.. post how much of a racist bigot I am.. and this thread will be complete.

[Warriorbird]

For juvenile actors in "hate crime" there isn't anything other than school administered punishment in Louisiana. None was given.

The victim had brought weapons to school multiple times. He was never charged. He recieved a $5,000 dollar fine yes, after the incident, but he was never charged.

There'd been a series of racially motivated fights in the area. The highest a white kid got was simple battery.

Another schoolyard fight happens? Black kids do it? Attempted murder.

The D.A. apparently got a talking to before the trial and it was dropped to agg battery. This is pretty much unheard of down here.

Nooses don't come across as a light-hearted "prank" in this area. Sentencing for white high school kids was dramatically less (or non-existent) than that for the black high school kids. There are serious problems with that.

"I can end your lives with the stroke of a pen!"
DA Reed Walters to the black high school students of Jena

The trial had a number of serious procedural issues.

If these kids had been white Duke lacrosse players you'd be on the other side.

[DeV]

Did you want me to fabricate them again.. or just dumb them down for you?


I just want you to stop being a ignorant hillbilly, but I know you were born and raised that way so it's just wishful thinking on my part. Next time, try not failing to answer a question not aimed at your retarded ass, lol.

[Warriorbird]

It's funny looking at all the issues with what went on with the prosecution. Some of the local Republicans have actually gotten somewhat wise and are using the case to score points on Democrats.

[Parkbandit]

I just want you to stop being a ignorant hillbilly, but I know you were born and raised that way so it's just wishful thinking on my part. Next time, try not failing to answer a question not aimed at your retarded ass, lol.

You know about as much about my life as you do about anything else. Pretty much nothing.

So bitch.. how did I not answer the question? Or do you just like being a little cunt for chuckles?

[Parkbandit]

For juvenile actors in "hate crime" there isn't anything other than school administered punishment in Louisiana. None was given.

The victim had brought weapons to school multiple times. He was never charged. He recieved a $5,000 dollar fine yes, after the incident, but he was never charged.

There'd been a series of racially motivated fights in the area. The highest a white kid got was simple battery.

Another schoolyard fight happens? Black kids do it? Attempted murder.

The D.A. apparently got a talking to before the trial and it was dropped to agg battery. This is pretty much unheard of down here.

Nooses don't come across as a light-hearted "prank" in this area. Sentencing for white high school kids was dramatically less (or non-existent) than that for the black high school kids. There are serious problems with that.

"I can end your lives with the stroke of a pen!"
DA Reed Walters to the black high school students of Jena

The trial had a number of serious procedural issues.

If these kids had been white Duke lacrosse players you'd be on the other side.

So, which side of the Duke case were you on from the beginning? It was a black 'victim' and white racists.. do I need to guess?

[Warriorbird]

Because attacking me somehow lets you off the hook?

[Snapp]

1) Noose was never proven that it was a signal from the white kids to the black kids to stay out of their white only tree.


I'm curious as to what else the noose could mean?


Also posted by Parkbandit
Perhaps instead of slinging insults.... you could actually make a point?

Hilarious coming from you. Just read some of your posts in this thread.

[Parkbandit]

Because attacking me somehow lets you off the hook?

How did I attack you? Oh.. by asking you a question of which side of the Duke case you were on? I guess you were on the black 'victim's' side.

And I'm far from being on any hook. This is the internet. I couldn't give a shit what you or anyone else here thinks. I post here for entertainment purposes only... and you are very, very entertaining. If it weren't for you liberals, I wouldn't even be here.

[Parkbandit]

I'm curious as to what else the noose could mean?


Hilarious coming from you. Just read some of your posts in this thread.

My insults were in response to either stupidity or other insults... cockbreath.

The noose is a knot, normally made from a small-diameter rope, that is often used by campers and hunters to catch small game. The noose has also traditionally been known as a suicide method; however the actual knot associated with this is the Hangman's knot, which is also known as the "hangman's noose".

I guess you would have a point if only black people were ever hung using one.... but unfortunately for you and Al and Jesse.. white people were hung by them as well :(

[Warriorbird]

:laughs: Then we're equally not on a non existent hook.

This case is very illustrative. I have to respect some of Bobby Jindal's handlers for putting it back on "Democrats don't care about black people." Brilliant move.

[Parkbandit]

By the way WB.. when you use :laughs: or :nods sagely: it makes you look retarded.. since we're not fucking roleplaying. Just an FYI.

And I agree.. there is no way the Democrats hate black people.. only Bush hates Black people.

[Snapp]

The noose is a knot, normally made from a small-diameter rope, that is often used by campers and hunters to catch small game. The noose has also traditionally been known as a suicide method; however the actual knot associated with this is the Hangman's knot, which is also known as the "hangman's noose".
So you think they were just hunting for squirrels and it was all a big misunderstanding? :lol:


Also posted by Parkbandit
By the way WB.. when you use :laughs: or :nods sagely: it makes you look retarded.. since we're not fucking roleplaying.
I do agree with you there.

[Warriorbird]

Sort of like how your sig makes you look retarded...and comparing Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to the KKK makes you look retarded, Parkbandit?

Thanks! I'm sure we can help each other present ourselves in a better fashion.

:::

With a bit of effort this whole media circus/Jackson Sharpton opportunity could've been avoided.

[Sean]

Given PB's stance on the noose as a symbol I fully expect his next post to be about him taking back the phrase Porch Monkey.

[Warriorbird]

The noose is a symbol of his pride and Southern heritage...like the Confederate Battle Flag.

Every times he stands against us he stands up for Tabor (and all the other poor disenfranchised white folks who can't find their voting cards).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEb2hFOSFFk

[Parkbandit]

The noose is a symbol of his pride and Southern heritage...like the Confederate Battle Flag.

Every times he stands against us he stands up for Tabor.

This post is almost sig worthy, since it really sums up your ignorance in a nice tidy little package.

[Warriorbird]

Step your insult game up.

[Parkbandit]

Sort of like how your sig makes you look retarded...and comparing Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to the KKK makes you look retarded, Parkbandit?

Thanks! I'm sure we can help each other present ourselves in a better fashion.

:::

With a bit of effort this whole media circus/Jackson Sharpton opportunity could've been avoided.

How does my sig make me look retarded exactly? Sorry I ruined your roleplaying on a forum.. sorry I hurt your feelings.

Feel free to continue to roleplay on a fucking forum, you dumb nerd.

:nods sagely:

:rofl:

[Parkbandit]

Step your insult game up.

I really did hurt your roleplaying feelings. :(

:Cries softly:

[Warriorbird]

This is what's known as the Internet. Stuff like that developed out of chat rooms on the Internet. I'd never use something like that when I was roleplaying.

Feel free to continue calling people on a forum nerds...you fucking idiot.

:)

You make yourself look totally superior!

I wanted to embed the video of the fellow with the 1/8th size fiddle playing Dixie...but he talked to much. It would've been indicative of all kinds of things.

EDIT:

If you can't follow how your sig makes you look like a fucking idiot...well...not much hope for you.

Keep posting. Maybe you can shift me owning you onto another page.

[Davenshire]

It isn't only his sig, but his avatar.


Jesus Parkbandit shut up while you are behind. :tool:

[Kembal]

My insults were in response to either stupidity or other insults... cockbreath.

The noose is a knot, normally made from a small-diameter rope, that is often used by campers and hunters to catch small game. The noose has also traditionally been known as a suicide method; however the actual knot associated with this is the Hangman's knot, which is also known as the "hangman's noose".

I guess you would have a point if only black people were ever hung using one.... but unfortunately for you and Al and Jesse.. white people were hung by them as well :(

WTF?

Let's break down your logic here:

- Someone hung the noose.
a) To catch small game - No, I doubt anyone's trying to catch a rabbit.
b) To commit suicide - Would make sense if someone had actually hung themself using it.
c) To signal the hangman's noose as a threat - Ok, that's a possibility, which you admit.

- To whom did they signal it to?
a) A student hung the noose to threaten another student - How would another student interpret that as a threat? The noose is a generic threat in the context it has been hung, which you also have admitted.
b) A white student hung the noose to threaten all students generally, regardless of race - Alright, but then why use the noose? The ability to convey a threat can be accomplished in many ways, none of which have the distinctions that the noose has in the history of race relations in the U.S.
c) A white student hung the noose to threaten black students - The case everyone is arguing, based on the historical distinctions the noose has.
d) A black student hung the noose to either threaten all students generally or some subset of students - If there was any evidence of this, sure, this could be considered. Except there's no evidence of this, and no one's claimed it to be so. And of course, again, why use a noose?

So we're looking at case b or c. And if you're arguing b (which seems to be your logic in claiming it's not a racially motivated threat), then why the hell would they use a noose?

And if you're arguing that the noose has no distinction in the history of American race relations, I suggest you read up on the era after the Civil War, about the use of lynchings in vigilante mob justice, almost always done after dubious accusation by a white person against a black person.

[Davenshire]

And to cut you off before you try and label me as "unpatriotic" PB, I think it is embarassing having a close minded fuck with blinders on like you having that for an avatar.

It's shaming seeing it on you with some of the bullshit you write. Maybe we should start a pole on, "what parkbandit should have for an avatar."

I'd vote for a picture of the grand mug wump.... or maybe a horse with blinders on hauling a wagon full of manure.

And seriously where is yer dumb ass chillmonster comments, I havent seen them in awhile, and you usually toss them in if he is present or not.

[Warriorbird]

Parkbandit's heritage is very important to him.

http://www.airbrushfrankhazen.com/rebel_flag-eagle_rip_285x317.jpg

[Gan]

I'm curious as to what else the noose could mean?

Until it is evidenced by those who put it up, most of the generalizations that have occurred thus far are just that, with a little speculation thrown in for seasoning.

:popcorn:

[Warriorbird]

Given all the stuff tossed out at the school it was quite evidenced. The principal moved to expel the students but the superintendent reduced it to a day of in school suspension. Investigators found what would have been considered a hate crime in other jurisdictions or age groups. There's just no applicable law in Louisiana.

[Gan]

Given all the stuff tossed out at the school it was quite evidenced. The principal moved to expel the students but the superintendent reduced it to a day of in school suspension. Investigators found what would have been considered a hate crime in other jurisdictions or age groups. There's just no applicable law in Louisiana.

Objection: speculation.

[Kembal]

Until it is evidenced by those who put it up, most of the generalizations that have occurred thus far are just that, with a little speculation thrown in for seasoning.

:popcorn:

It's not much of a speculation though. What other meaning could you attach to a noose in that context? I broke it down like I did for a reason.

[Gan]

It's not much of a speculation though. What other meaning could you attach to a noose in that context? I broke it down like I did for a reason.

Unless you have direct proof that it was meant to be racial, then its speculation.

What is your direct proof?

[Artha]

What the hell do you want, a note that says TO: Black people FROM: KKK?

[Warriorbird]

Provided there was an actual statute it might be a crime with a specific intent or a crime with general intent...where all the mental element required would be carrying out the act.

It isn't a crime in Louisiana and especially not so for juvenile defendants though so none of that matters.

I'm just going by what was read to me from the descriptions from the FBI agents sent to investigate. They disagreed with Bush's appointed investigator. The local DA (a Democrat) held entirely different views...

:shrugs:

Leaning on the superintendent might've ended the entire issue. The DA charging some of the white kids involved in the fighting might've done the same. Now it looks pretty bad for the DA (and his vast legion of Republican defenders)...though the people who suggest that the Jena 6 be "freed" also seem pretty crazy to me.

[Parkbandit]

Parkbandit's heritage is very important to him.

http://www.airbrushfrankhazen.com/rebel_flag-eagle_rip_285x317.jpg


So is yours:


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/airshoe1.jpg

[Gan]

What the hell do you want, a note that says TO: Black people FROM: KKK?

Simply put, proof that it was racially motivated and that the nooses were really meant to be a racial slur by white students aimed at black students. Proof that will stand up in a court of law.

[Warriorbird]

:chuckles:

Closest I got to French is Alsace-Lorraine. My family held slaves. It isn't something I'm particularly proud of. I'm not doing my best to protect the poor white supremacists these days, however.

[Artha]

But they didn't break any law, so why does that matter?

[Gan]

Media myths about the Jena 6 (http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1024/p09s01-coop.html)

An interesting article that raises some interesting points. More media BS or is there some validity in what is pointed out?

A few of the 'myths' listed in the article, reprinted below:



Myth 1: The Whites-Only Tree. There has never been a "whites-only" tree at Jena High School. Students of all races sat underneath this tree. When a student asked during an assembly at the start of school last year if anyone could sit under the tree, it evoked laughter from everyone present – blacks and whites. As reported by students in the assembly, the question was asked to make a joke and to drag out the assembly and avoid class.


Myth 2: Nooses a Signal to Black Students. An investigation by school officials, police, and an FBI agent revealed the true motivation behind the placing of two nooses in the tree the day after the assembly. According to the expulsion committee, the crudely constructed nooses were not aimed at black students. Instead, they were understood to be a prank by three white students aimed at their fellow white friends, members of the school rodeo team. (The students apparently got the idea from watching episodes of "Lonesome Dove.") The committee further concluded that the three young teens had no knowledge that nooses symbolize the terrible legacy of the lynchings of countless blacks in American history. When informed of this history by school officials, they became visibly remorseful because they had many black friends. Another myth concerns their punishment, which was not a three-day suspension, but rather nine days at an alternative facility followed by two weeks of in-school suspension, Saturday detentions, attendance at Discipline Court, and evaluation by licensed mental-health professionals. The students who hung the nooses have not publicly come forward to give their version of events.



Myth 3: Nooses Were a Hate Crime. Although many believe the three white students should have been prosecuted for a hate crime for hanging the nooses, the incident did not meet the legal criteria for a federal hate crime. It also did not meet the standard for Louisiana's hate-crime statute, and though widely condemned by all officials, there was no crime to charge the youths with.

[Gan]

But they didn't break any law, so why does that matter?

It matters because its a base line for establishing fact over supposition/speculation/hearsay/etc.

[Warriorbird]

He's connected to the case. The article got brought up in class discussion.

[Gan]

He's connected to the case. The article got brought up in class discussion.
Facts man!

Lets hear em! Lets see em!

Consider it great practice for your law career.

::nods::

::chuckles::

[Parkbandit]

:chuckles:

Closest I got to French is Alsace-Lorraine. My family held slaves. It isn't something I'm particularly proud of. I'm not doing my best to protect the poor white supremacists these days, however.


Yea.. 'cause if we even question yer claims, we're southern, racist hicks who don't know no better, huh.

Tunnel vision and being spoon fed is no way to go through life.

:nods sagely:

:laughs hysterically:

:spit rudely:

OMG! I r roleplaying on forum 2!!!

[Warriorbird]

He's related to the sheriff, friends with the DA, and apparently his wife gave a statement. This was brought up and heavily debated by two of my classmates from that area.

Made for a lively class. There've been suggestions that the whole thing has both killed and "caused a boom in" the town.

[Parkbandit]

Facts man!

Lets hear em! Lets see em!

Consider it great practice for your law career.


Stop confusing him!

[Gan]

But they didn't break any law, so why does that matter?

Holmes, my old bean, perhaps you might be onto something afterall.

;)

[Gan]

He's related to the sheriff, friends with the DA, and apparently his wife gave a statement. This was brought up and heavily debated by two of my classmates from that area.

Made for a lively class. There've been suggestions that the whole thing has both killed and "caused a boom in" the town.

Then disproving the points the article makes should be really easy then? No?

[Warriorbird]

Like many things...tough to prove one way or another. He's certainly got reason to make the town look better, however.

I certainly didn't go to the "Free the Jena 6" protests. I think the charges were too high though. I think the white students should've been dealt with more strongly (those involved with the fights and shouted out namecalling as much as those who hung the nooses.) I think that if the DA's going to be tossing out attempted murder charges...maybe he might want to consider being a little less lenient on allowing students to have firearms on school grounds. This could've ended much worse. In an area as racially tense as Jena... you've got to consider what your actions might trigger.

[Gan]

Stop confusing him!

I'm afraid its been too late for that for quite some time. :(


Speaking of more confusion...

https://www.aiga.org/Resources/SymbolSigns/gif_large/57_downarrow_inv.gif

[Tsa`ah]

You shouldn't get all of your 'facts' from the case from www.sharpton.com or www.jackson.com.

Actually, go back and read the original thread pertaining to this issue.


You make it sound like these 6 'victims' were just walking around.. got into a fight with this mean old white kid and things got out of control.. instead of what actually happened: A premeditated ambush and a ruthless beating.

I guess you missed my post ...


What these 6 kids did deserved punishment, as well as every incident leading to it .... however, justice was never done in any case ... nor was justice in mind from the onset of the incident that sparked all of this.

and ...


I find it stupid that BET brought these 6 kids out on an award show to "honor" them. I find it stupid that because the parish prosecution was so racist and inept ... these 6 kids will never really be brought to justice for assault.

No on denies that these 6 kids deserve to be charged with a crime, just that they be charged with the appropriate crime ... as well as every white and black kid leading up to this incident.

The kid that was beaten was not beaten as severely as the prosecution wanted everyone to believe, nor as bad as the kid himself (and his parents) wanted everyone to believe. Yes they knocked his ass out and shit stomped him. Yes he went to the hospital ... and then went to a school function after.

What his involvement was beyond being a friend to one of the kids that strung up nooses is beyond me ... and yes he was a victim of assault, but I doubt the he's as innocent and uninvolved as he claims ... but a victim of attempted murder he was not.


I also bet you believe that the 'white' tree was for white people only.. and that the nooses were put there to keep the blacks out from under the white tree.

I bet you didn't read the story. I also bet it's time for you to get your lens presciption checked ... because you overlook way too much to competently keep up in this sort of debate.

And Gan ... can you be more retarded? Christian Science Monitor ... an article without any names of testimony given, let alone references? I thought you took the brain dead route with the noose bullshit ... but then this.

[Gan]

And Gan ... can you be more retarded? Christian Science Monitor ... an article without any names of testimony given, let alone references? I thought you took the brain dead route with the noose bullshit ... but then this.

Feel free to dispute then, with names, relevant sources, and facts. Learn to go after content instead of the source, it will get you further than announcing that you're a BBS troll.

I will await your unretardedness.

Until then, you're just defending supposition with more supposition. Period.

Yes, I'm taking this to extremes, even with my obvious and well documented dislike of racisim here on the PC, because the whole thing smacks of sensationalism from the start.

Fact: The people who hung the nooses have never stated why they were hung. No admissions or confessions.

Fact: The people who hung the nooses were not charged with a crime, because without supposition, no violation of any law exists.

So yes, feel free to refute the 'cause' of the incidents that led up to the ensuing violence with facts, and not supposition.

Otherwise, consider looking in the mirror when you so casually throw out who's being retarded.

[Warriorbird]

They were suspended. No crime existed to charge them with. Your ideas of proof are somewhat amusing and not terribly applicable here.

[Gan]

Your ideas of proof are somewhat amusing and not terribly applicable here.

According to you?

Thanks for the validation buddy.


:lol:

[Tsa`ah]

He's not the one posting about the only article in support of his weak position from the Christian Science Monitor.

I guess when you don't have a leg to stand on, reach for one from God.

[Gan]

He's not the one posting about the only article in support of his weak position from the Christian Science Monitor.

I guess when you don't have a leg to stand on, reach for one from God.

Way to refute the content with facts. ;)

[Gan]

Ironically enough, this is one of the first racisim based events/stories I've seen with national/international attention (from the US) where the only people who got the shit beat out of them were the 'white' folks.

[Warriorbird]

You're trying to Latrin it up, Gan. It's cute.

Do you have a point that comes anywhere near the issue of overcharged black kids v undercharged white kids (and no, nowhere have I said that the people who hung the nooses needed to be charged with a crime) or are you just pretending to be a criminal lawyer?

A primary source related to the local sheriff and friends with the DA isn't exactly doing you any good.

Defend those noose hangers!

I certainly don't see you saying anything about the original subject of the thread either.

[FinisWolf]

Looking past the pissing contests ...

(This is a generalized response, that utilizes parts of the topic to create the response.)

Interesting.

Ok, really it's not. It may seem cold, but seriously who gives a fuck?

With people in power it is their job to get the general public to look away from them and blame others. It would be my opinion that throughout this thread you can easily see that the people in power have certainly succeeded. (Ask yourself why they want the general public to bicker amoungst itself. My answer is so that we (the general public) do not look at what they are doing.)

Look past all the bullshit, look past all the pointing fingers and the waving of flags of injustice. What is the REAL problem?

The real problem is not the supremacists (not the same as the KKK by the way), it's not those "media whores" screaming inequality. It's not those that take sides to aide the people in power (usually unknown they are even helping the people in power). On and on through the whole damn list until you reach the part where accountability should be held.

Let's make everyone color blind. DONE!

Law is written in black, on white. There is NO gray. Period!

Now, you have asshats over there breaking rules/laws that should be expelled.

Next, you have asshats over there that assaulted the other asshats and should go to jail for assault, or attempted murder (if the victim in this situation falls into what the law says becomes attempted murder).

Next, the superintendent did not do his job because of alleged (I don't know, I am not reading all this crap, so only going by what the group here is stating.) favoritism that caused more collateral damage. Suspend him without pay with the possibility of termination, as well as a minor possibility for negligence or some other low rent criminal charge.

Next, the DA. From the statements that I have gathered here. He did not follow the letter of the law (remember the law is black on white with no gray, and it sees NO color/gender/religion), put him in front of the BAR, possible suspension, whatever to make him accountable for his role.

Next, fine or incarcerate those that incite strife and add fuel to the fire causing or possibly causing civil unrest that leads or may lead to fights/brawls/riots.

This goes on, right down the line to anyone that should be held accountable. Period. No IF's AND's or BUT's. It is my opinion that should a situation such as this arise, and all involved are held accountable for their actions, these types of things would happen less.

It is also my opinion that those that have fought for equality in the past did so for good reasons, but the law is now so cluttered with equality that it clutters the general publics minds and actually CREATES inequality (different discussion, but ties to this one).

Simply put, treat everyone, regardless of race, religion, or gender the same. Remove those things from judgments, and use the letter of the law to decide. (I feel I should add that I believe in extenuating circumstances, but race, religion, and gender should NOT be utilized as an extenuating circumstance.)

Anyway, a lot of the posters here seem educated. Don't let the people in power clutter your minds by distracting you from their own wrongs. Look past the bullshit. See the above situation for what it is. A series of mistakes.

What would our world be like if we didn't see in color? Pretend that everyone involved were all purple. What then do you have?

If we can educate the general public to only see human, then we remove the discrimination that creates a situation such as this that is no more then a snowball effect. A series of events that continue to escalate.

Carl

[FinisWolf]

Side Note:

I find the Christian Science Monitor to be a very trustworthy source of information when I am doing research. More so then CNN, some news channel ecetra. Maybe because when I read an article I like to know who wrote it (and what their position is as well as what motivates them on the topic), who published it (and what their position is as well as what motivates them on the topic), who backs the news source (and what their position is as well as what motivates them on the topic). I look at all this so I can see what twist they are putting on the story.

:shrug:

[Gan]

You're trying to Latrin it up, Gan. It's cute.
Quit hitting on me, I'm not gay.



Do you have a point that comes anywhere near the issue of overcharged black kids v undercharged white kids (and no, nowhere have I said that the people who hung the nooses needed to be charged with a crime) or are you just pretending to be a criminal lawyer?
I'm playing both devil's advocate as well as representing a different perspective, one that creates reasonable doubt, asks legitimate questions, and should be considered in light of the evidence (and lack thereof) in this case. Both sides of the story deserve equal representation do they not?


A primary source related to the local sheriff and friends with the DA isn't exactly doing you any good.
And yet your efforts of attempting to discredit the source (and in Tsa'ah's efforts of discrediting the medium in which it was published) still do not refute the content or the perspective it represents. Something you might want to consider.


Defend those noose hangers!
How very 1L of you.


I certainly don't see you saying anything about the original subject of the thread either.
Well, since your efforts at discrediting everything else has failed, lets start screaming OFF TOPIC!!111ONEone.
Predictable and pathethic. At this point, you're not even making a good prospect for ambulance chaser. You need to step up your game.

[Warriorbird]

As Parkbandit so eloquently reminded me...this is an Internet forum. Why do I care? I don't have to follow the rules of legal writing or argument here in the slightest. There'd be no point to anyways.

The initial charges were excessive. This is simply illustrated by how quickly the DA's office dropped attempted murder against Mychal Bell and how the entire sham got overturned on appeal. Bell will have adequate council in his new trial. The "evidence" was intensely contradictory...which is quite a problem for the state. Several of the witnesses will be quite impeachable by adequate council.

If Bell was as critical as he's been played out to be by the DA, I don't think the state has the best chance versus the untried remaining defendants.

When somebody brandishes a loaded shotgun at someone else...trying the people who the shotgun was pointed at is sort of ridiculous.

Claiming that you don't know the significance of a noose in the Deep South is also ridiculous.

For the fifth time...let me repeat myself...I'm not suggesting the "Jena 6" be freed...just charged properly. Between the DA and the superintendent this whole situation could've been avoided.

You also might need to look up the meaning of devil's advocate, Gan. It tends to mean you're taking up a position solely for the sake of argument.

[Gan]

As Parkbandit so eloquently reminded me...this is an Internet forum. Why do I care? I don't have to follow the rules of legal writing or argument here in the slightest. There'd be no point to anyways.
Retreat!


The initial charges were excessive. This is simply illustrated by how quickly the DA's office dropped attempted murder against Mychal Bell and how the entire sham got overturned on appeal. Bell will have adequate council in his new trial. The "evidence" was intensely contradictory...which is quite a problem for the state. Several of the witnesses will be quite impeachable by adequate council.
I never said the charges were fair. In fact, I believe that the DA was a little over the top by going with attempted murder. However, I'm focusing more on the events that led up to the violence, namely the circumstances surrounding the tree and the noose hanging.


If Bell was as critical as he's been played out to be by the DA, I don't think the state has the best chance versus the untried remaining defendants.

That remains to be seen.


When somebody brandishes a loaded shotgun at someone else...trying the people who the shotgun was pointed at is sort of ridiculous.

Right, because everyone who has a weapon pointed at them are a victim. Regardless of what they were doing to begin with. Is that what you're going to put on your business card? (Right behind the title - ambulance chaser)


Claiming that you don't know the significance of a noose in the Deep South is also ridiculous.
Claiming the only definition of a noose in the deep south is for hanging a black man is also ridiculous. Way to buy into the sweeping generalization and stereotype.


For the fifth time...let me repeat myself...I'm not suggesting the "Jena 6" be freed...just charged properly. Between the DA and the superintendent this whole situation could've been avoided.
Actually your argument involving the thread diversion I'm discussing has been something completely different. But yea, ok, whatever you say. ;)


You also might need to look up the meaning of devil's advocate, Gan. It tends to mean you're taking up a position solely for the sake of argument.
ZOMG! According to WB, you cant be devils advocate and something else too! I gues you got me there. Does that mean you win?

[Warriorbird]

Yep.

The idea that I'm also going to go into anything other than transactional law is also funny. I'm also somehow going to go into defense and chase ambulances at the same time? Do you even read what you're typing?

Going to give us your plan for making hanging nooses in the Deep South okay now, Gan?


However, I'm focusing more on the events that led up to the violence, namely the circumstances surrounding the tree and the noose hanging.

I find this line particularly amusing.

[Tsa`ah]

No ... let alone anything said by anyone else.

Considering what he linked is an op-ed and not an article, it's pretty hard to disprove. You can point out his lack of sources and use of hearsay ... it's essentially a blog by the assistant editor of the local paper ... who is saying the same thing every other white person in Jena is saying.

And I'm sorry to point out to Fin ... when most of the articles you chose to publish are garbage, even from a moral standpoint, well it kind of invalidates the credibility of everything else in your archive.

[DeV]

Ironically enough, this is one of the first racisim based events/stories I've seen with national/international attention (from the US) where the only people who got the shit beat out of them were the 'white' folks.Justin Sloan would probably beg to differ.

[TheEschaton]

Fact: The people who hung the nooses have never stated why they were hung. No admissions or confessions.


So, what, if a person never confesses to murder, oh well, we have to drop the charges!!!!!!! THERE'S NO CONFESSION!!!!!!!!!111!!1one

As someone has already broken down before, the only logical reason to hang the nooses is to threaten black students. That you don't know the actual mindset of a person doesn't mean you can't discern it. It's done in criminal justice ALL THE FUCKING TIME. The writer of that op-ed in the CSM would have you believe that the nooses were a prank on the rodeo team (how is this a prank towards the rodeo team? They would have hung lassos, fit to ROPE A COW, not nooses, which are meant to string up people. They would also have you believe these kids DID NOT KNOW THE LONG HISTORY OF LYNCHING PEOPLE. That's either an outright lie, or there is a serious, serious problem in La. education that white high school students don't know the legacies of slavery.


Fact: The people who hung the nooses were not charged with a crime, because without supposition, no violation of any law exists.

The problem with this supposition is assuming that everything that is unjust is against the law. The confederate flag is a widespread sign of racism, so are men in white sheets, so is a noose. Just because those symbols aren't illegal doesn't mean they aren't hateful, and incite racial tensions.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

The committee further concluded that the three young teens had no knowledge that nooses symbolize the terrible legacy of the lynchings of countless blacks in American history.To answer your disjunction, this would be MEDIA BS. Here's a legalist phrase for you: plausible deniability.

[oldanforgotten]

Some of the interesting things to consider about racism in this country:

1) Why is it that if a fraternity declares itself open to white people only, it is immediately branded as racist, yet fraternities, colleges, and even government funded organizations can be for black people only, yet it never comes under question?
2) Why is it that we have government sponsored quotas that would demand that race be used as an automatic academic qualifier for people, forcing institutions to turn down more qualified people in order to ensure that specific racial mixes are kept?
3) Why is it that if a high profile university, company, or coaching position opens, there is an outcry if no black people are interviewed, yet in the cases where no white people were interviewed, it shows ?progress??
4) Why is it a race crime that when a black escort accuses 3 white lacrosse players of rape, it is a racial and hate crime, yet when it is found that she made the whole thing up, there is no apology from the blacks?
5) Why do affirmative action and low income housing communities in this country specifically cater to minorities, giving them nearly 4 times the approval rate for affordable housing than low income whites and Asians?

A lot of people automatically make generalized statements that are instantly qualified as racism. I myself am not white. Neither am I Jewish or Christian. But if I were to make the statement such as ?Black people in America are more likely to commit violent crimes and do drugs than white people, or asian people?, that would make me a racist somehow, even though the statement as a whole is validated by fact. There are 6 times as many white people under the poverty line than blacks in this country. I don?t know the exact figures on violent crimes, but I know generally, that the ratio of violent crimes does not come anywhere close to that number.

One of the great examples of this is found every year in a town called Little River, SC. Every year, there is a Harley ralley, followed by the Atlantic Beach Bikers (Black Bikers) Rally in Atlantic Beach. Crime is up in Little River during both rallies, however, it is only up by a small amount during the Harley rally, with most offenses being primarily disturbance and nuisance arrests, whereas during the Black Bikers rally, while violent crime is not up appreciably, theft, littering, loitering, and disturbance related crimes are up to the point that every year, additional resources are needed to keep the town in peace. Little River itself is a generally peaceful beach town that is more than 1/3 African American. How do I know this? My college roommate (who is black) is now on the City Council there. But say anything about race being a factor, even in a general way, and Al Sharpton will come a runnin like he just stole something and chastise you for being a racist.

Right now, while it is not as dangerous, violent, or scary as white supremicism once was, there is more reverse racism occurring in this country than the other way around.
________
SX4 (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_SX4)

[Artha]

Re: Questions 1 - 5: It's all a reaction to Jim Crow laws.

edit: And also, what do you mean "no apology from the blacks"? I don't remember apologizing for those white people in WVa that raped the black woman, and I don't expect anyone else to do any apologizing for that stupid ho in the Duke case because they share the same skin color.

[Tsa`ah]

1) Name one "black only" organization that receives federal funding.
2) Ronald Reagan
3) Sensationalism
4) Learn to read/research
5) Socioeconomic disparity - look it up.


A lot of people automatically make generalized statements that are instantly qualified as racism. I myself am not white. Neither am I Jewish or Christian. But if I were to make the statement such as “Black people in America are more likely to commit violent crimes and do drugs than white people, or asian people”, that would make me a racist somehow, even though the statement as a whole is validated by fact. There are 6 times as many white people under the poverty line than blacks in this country. I don’t know the exact figures on violent crimes, but I know generally, that the ratio of violent crimes does not come anywhere close to that number.

Look at it per capita, look at the number of blacks incarcerated and look at the crimes committed.


One of the great examples of this is found every year in a town called Little River, SC. Every year, there is a Harley ralley, followed by the Atlantic Beach Bikers (Black Bikers) Rally in Atlantic Beach. Crime is up in Little River during both rallies, however, it is only up by a small amount during the Harley rally, with most offenses being primarily disturbance and nuisance arrests, whereas during the Black Bikers rally, while violent crime is not up appreciably, theft, littering, loitering, and disturbance related crimes are up to the point that every year, additional resources are needed to keep the town in peace. Little River itself is a generally peaceful beach town that is more than 1/3 African American. How do I know this? My college roommate (who is black) is now on the City Council there. But say anything about race being a factor, even in a general way, and Al Sharpton will come a runnin like he just stole something and chastise you for being a racist.

It would be interesting if either group swapped locations and/or held several rallies in different regions of the country.


Right now, while it is not as dangerous, violent, or scary as white supremicism once was, there is more reverse racism occurring in this country than the other way around.

"Reverse Racism" is no racism. Learn not to Diff'rent Strokes.

[oldanforgotten]

1) Name one "black only" organization that receives federal funding. -? Grambling University
2) Ronald Reagan -? I?m not making this about politics. It?s reverse racism nonetheless
3) Sensationalism -? That makes it just as wrong, and just as racist.
4) Learn to read/research -? I have done the research. Where are the black people apologizing to the whites? Where is Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton?s apology for the namecalling?
5) Socioeconomic disparity - look it up. -? It?s still racism. A poor white family is less than 1/4th as likely to be accepted or approved for low or middle income housing, despite otherwise having the same qualifying income levels. Race should not be a factor in the acceptance process.

Look at it per capita, look at the number of blacks incarcerated and look at the crimes committed.

That?s exactly what I am doing. By ratio, there are more crimes committed by blacks than whites relative to their being below the poverty level.

It would be interesting if either group swapped locations and/or held several rallies in different regions of the country.

Crime numbers by week are not exactly a published thing, so it cannot be appreciably checked unless you know people who are willing to talk straight with you in Ocean City, Maryland, or Virginia Beach. Those are the only two other places I know where both rallies occur during the same season. The Virginia Beach area is predominantly white, however, the surrounding communities are almost entirely African American. Ocean City and its surrounding areas are predominantly white. Only reason I know about Little River is from my college roommate and it?s a topic we talk about a lot at our yearly fraternity get-togethers. Call him an Uncle Tom if you will, but most of my own feelings on racism in this country come from him. The only areas we tend not to agree is that he is a economically conservative democrat, and I?m an anti-Hillary Southern democrat.



"Reverse Racism" is no racism. Learn not to Diff'rent Strokes.

Reverse Racism is a term used by some people to describe a situation in which a group of people are claiming racism, but are in fact, doing so based on a racist bias of their own, which this country is catering to. If you have 100 spots open, they should go to the 100 most qualified applicants, not the 30 most qualified white male applicants, the 30 most qualified white female applicants, the 5 most qualified Hispanic male, the 5 most qualified Hispanic female, etc.

When the system is set up to deny a more qualified person to allow someone else in who is less qualified based on race, that is racism. It is in fact, government sponsored racism.
________
Herbal Health (http://herbalhealthshop.com)

[Parkbandit]

This fight with wallsoftextandmultiquotes ruins this thread. Can we get back to WB insulting me, I sling back.. and he calls foul? That was far more entertaining.

[DeV]

A lot of people automatically make generalized statements that are instantly qualified as racism.Qualified by whom?


I myself am not white. Neither am I Jewish or Christian. But if I were to make the statement such as “Black people in America are more likely to commit violent crimes and do drugs than white people, or asian people”, that would make me a racist somehow, even though the statement as a whole is validated by fact. Black people are also more likely to commit violent crimes against other black people than they are against any other race. Somehow, I fail to see how making that statement qualifies me or anyone else as racist. I have a harder time believing the "more likely to do drugs", but that's just based on personal experience. I'd love to see your sources regarding likelihood of doing drugs, since you say that too is validated by fact.

there is more reverse racism occurring in this country than the other way around.Source(s) please.

[TheEschaton]

Grambling University is not all-black, it is open to all students.

That white students traditionally don't apply there, and white students traditionally DO apply, causing large disparities, does not make it only a black university. And it's not like all other universities, where black students would apply, but never get in.

-TheE-

[DeV]

1) Name one "black only" organization that receives federal funding. - Grambling University

Are you saying that only black students attend this university?

[Tsa`ah]

1) Grambling university is considered a black college ... but is not black only.
2) You asked, I answered. Again ... reverse racism = no racism. Racism is racism no matter the target.
3) Again, you asked I answered.
4) Learn to read/research better. Sharpton and Jackson are not the de facto leaders of all blacks. Many lesser known civil rights leaders have expressed shame over the entire incident.
5) No, it IS NOT. Government programs do not base benefits on skin color. They base them on one color ... green, or lack of it.

No, there are not. There are more reported crimes perhaps. There does exist a huge disparity in justice ... it is pretty evident if you bothered to actually look at the statistics.


Crime numbers by week are not exactly a published thing, so it cannot be appreciably checked unless you know people who are willing to talk straight with you in Ocean City, Maryland, or Virginia Beach. Those are the only two other places I know where both rallies occur during the same season. The Virginia Beach area is predominantly white, however, the surrounding communities are almost entirely African American. Ocean City and its surrounding areas are predominantly white. Only reason I know about Little River is from my college roommate and it’s a topic we talk about a lot at our yearly fraternity get-togethers. Call him an Uncle Tom if you will, but most of my own feelings on racism in this country come from him. The only areas we tend not to agree is that he is a economically conservative democrat, and I’m an anti-Hillary Southern democrat.

Personally I would recommend a less idiotic outlook. This "blacks commit more crime" is bullshit. Comparing white bikers and the reported crimes they commit and are charged for vs the black bikers on the same note is complete, and I dare say, moronic bullshit.


Reverse Racism is a term used by some people to describe a situation in which a group of people are claiming racism, but are in fact, doing so based on a racist bias of their own, which this country is catering to. If you have 100 spots open, they should go to the 100 most qualified applicants, not the 30 most qualified white male applicants, the 30 most qualified white female applicants, the 5 most qualified Hispanic male, the 5 most qualified Hispanic female, etc.

You're mixing up your arguments ... but the point you miss is that racism is racism. Reversing that means there is a lack of racism. Reverse racism = lacking the basic understanding of your native language.

I do agree with the point that one should advance on personal merit. I don't agree with quotas ... but when you lump this pseudo racist crap in with your argument, well it deflates it and makes the position laughable.


When the system is set up to deny a more qualified person to allow someone else in who is less qualified based on race, that is racism. It is in fact, government sponsored racism.

When it comes to government jobs, or jobs that receive funding from the government ... that's what we have to deal with. I don't agree with it either.

When it comes to the corporate/private sector ... that has nothing to do with the government regulation, unless they receive funding from or hold government contracts.

Simple solution is to not apply for those jobs and force one of two things ... a demand or outsourcing.

Like it or not .. it is a political issue.

[Gan]

As far as I know, there arent any universities in the US that restrict application and attendance by race requirements. Be it white, black, or other.

[Tea & Strumpets]

And it's not like all other universities, where black students would apply, but never get in.

-TheE-

Are you just trying to be inflammatory, or is this another case of you actually believing the stupidity you spew on a daily basis?

[RichardCranium]

You're mixing up your arguments ... but the point you miss is that racism is racism. Reversing that means there is a lack of racism. Reverse racism = lacking the basic understanding of your native language.

A good rule of thumb says that whenever you begin to argue semantics and fail to address points = you fail.

[oldanforgotten]

Are you just trying to be inflammatory, or is this another case of you actually believing the stupidity you spew on a daily basis?

Inflammatory is my guess. Nobody is saying that they wouldnt get in because they were black. Some of the blacks and hispanics who did get in would be denied based on grades, test scores, and other general academic qualifiers.

There were plenty of black people at Princeton and Wharton in my times there. But as my roommate said best a few years ago on the topic.

The system is not fair. Not fair to the half of us who got in our own merits to have to be classified with those who got in based on their skin color. Not fair to the people who were initially denied admittance in favor of less qualified people because they had a different skin color, and unfair to black people as a whole because it escalates our dropout rate. It's like a big joke. The universities keep taking less qualified black people to fill a quota, then points at the dropout rate of blacks in protest. Fuck the NAACP. Give us a chance to earn it on our own merits, then talk about what we can and can't do in America.
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[TheEschaton]

Sounds like your roommate was an idiot.

Black people have systematically been denied rights and education for our entire history minus 50 years. And then, rights and education are finally afforded and guaranteed to blacks, and all the segregationalists and their supporters who loudly decried the black race as inferior, suddenly switched their tune and said, "You're equal now, stop fucking crying!!!!!"

However, if you, as a people, have been systematically oppressed, and told you are worthless, for generations upon generations, it is hard, and sometimes impossible, to simply reject everything everyone has ever told you, to quite literally disbelieve everything you've been taught, throw off the shackles of that oppression, and be free. Most white people would never understand this, because they've never had to reject their entire selves, because they are validated from the first day of existence. how do you throw this shackle off? Have people educated by the best educators, have them in positions of power, have them be leaders. And unfortunately, in our society, we've valued certain educations more than others; the vast majority of the CEOs, politicians, and so on, so forth, go to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Penn, and the myriad of top tier schools under them. You have to start somewhere.

If you have a system where black Americans cannot get in the halls of power because those selfsame halls have been part of the system that has kept them down, how do you solve this but allowing the best of their population in, and empower them to assert their own power?

-TheE-

[Tsa`ah]

You're trying to explain disparity to a slack jaw.

I think the crux of my posts are going to be cheerleader/pom pom .jpgs and requests for sources from now on ... seems to work for those who can't back up, let alone stand by their assertions.

[Sean]

I'm still waiting for the letters from the universities that accepted me indicating if they accepted me on merit or skin tone...

[Tsa`ah]

I'm still waiting for the letters from the universities that accepted me indicating if they accepted me on merit or skin tone...

Source please.

[DeV]

Some of the blacks and hispanics who did get in would be denied based on grades, test scores, and other general academic qualifiers.
How does your roommate know he wasn't a primary beneficiary of affirmative action at the university level?

I will agree with him in saying the system isn't fair; neither is life.

[oldanforgotten]

Sounds like your roommate was an idiot.

Black people have systematically been denied rights and education for our entire history minus 50 years. And then, rights and education are finally afforded and guaranteed to blacks, and all the segregationalists and their supporters who loudly decried the black race as inferior, suddenly switched their tune and said, "You're equal now, stop fucking crying!!!!!"

However, if you, as a people, have been systematically oppressed, and told you are worthless, for generations upon generations, it is hard, and sometimes impossible, to simply reject everything everyone has ever told you, to quite literally disbelieve everything you've been taught, throw off the shackles of that oppression, and be free. Most white people would never understand this, because they've never had to reject their entire selves, because they are validated from the first day of existence. how do you throw this shackle off? Have people educated by the best educators, have them in positions of power, have them be leaders. And unfortunately, in our society, we've valued certain educations more than others; the vast majority of the CEOs, politicians, and so on, so forth, go to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Penn, and the myriad of top tier schools under them. You have to start somewhere.

If you have a system where black Americans cannot get in the halls of power because those selfsame halls have been part of the system that has kept them down, how do you solve this but allowing the best of their population in, and empower them to assert their own power?

-TheE-


The only idiot here is you, because you?ve missed the point in it?s entirety.

There are plenty of Black people who can get in anywhere based on their own merits. However, if they are taking underqualified people based on race, and then inserting them into a program for which they are underqualified for, what do you think happens more often than not?

Here?s an easier one for you.

Princeton has an outstanding school of engineering. Specifically, the chemical engineering and electrical engineering programs are among the best in the country. Every year, there are about 350 students accepted into the program, most of whom choose those two majors. My roommate was one of them. One of around 40 African Americans in the program.

My graduating class had 284 students. 75 or so dropouts and 4-5 transfers. My roommate was one of 12 graduating African Americans. More than two thirds of the African Americans accepted into the program couldn?t cut it. Want to give that ratio a crack? Most of the people who dropped out also dropped out of the University.

The problem in the end is that it?s just a piece of damn paper that says you know something. The guy who comes out of Princeton with that piece of paper has the same basic foundation of knowledge as the person who comes out of Generic U, albeit with a known stronger problem solving and practical application basis. Given 5 years of work experience and knowledge, and they are both on the same exact level of playing field, albeit the one from Princeton will have a higher salary (but not necessarily position) due to a higher starting salary.

Those less qualified people were set up to fail, and everyone knew it. Whether or not they had the opportunity to take college level physics and math classes prior to going to college was moot. THEY WERE STILL UNPREPARED FOR THE PROGRAM AND THEY FAILED. They failed when other programs could have set them up for success if they were in a program that they were qualified for based on their own academic merits. They weren?t stupid. They were put into spots and set up to fail where more qualified people could have taken those spots instead with a higher chance for success. That CREATES tension where it shouldnt otherwise exist.

I?m not white either, and my roommate was a hell of a lot smarter than I was, so I tell you what. When you can graduate from the top electrical engineering program in the country with a 3.9 in 3 1/2 years, get your MBA from Princeton within 18 months after that with a 4.0, become a director at Bear Sterns by 26, become president of real estate company in South Carolina by 29, and get onto a City Council by 30, standing yourself on a short list of people to be promoted by the Democratic Party for a Congressional Election the day you turn 35 (when you are still 30), then by all means, go and call my black roommate ignorant. Frankly, I admire the guy, and he?s done a whole lot more than most people ever have already.

Given the fact that he was black and grew up in a rough neighborhood in Baltimore, I?d also say he probably has a whole hell of a lot better perspective than your sheltered ass or my sheltered ass EVER would on what they have to go through to succeed.
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[oldanforgotten]

I'm still waiting for the letters from the universities that accepted me indicating if they accepted me on merit or skin tone...

It's obvious.

Every school has a set standard of average number of college credits for incoming freshman, average standardized test scores, and average percentile for accepted students.

if you fall way below those numbers and are a minority, congratulations, you won the race game.
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[oldanforgotten]

You're trying to explain disparity to a slack jaw.

I think the crux of my posts are going to be cheerleader/pom pom .jpgs and requests for sources from now on ... seems to work for those who can't back up, let alone stand by their assertions.


And you're an asshole that no one here seems to like. Go back to googling shit and passing that off as your opinion/fact. You're good at that.

Better yet, how about go find a friend? Do you even have any?
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[Tsa`ah]

The only idiot here is you, because you’ve missed the point in it’s entirety.

.....

No, you have missed the point ... time and time and time and time and time and time again.

I don't agree with quotas, nor do I believe in different requirements based on skin color.

Here's the thing you're not getting.

From the word go, one race in this nation has had the leg up. We're talking about education and socioeconomic standing.

We're not paying for the segregation of 50 years ago, nor are we paying for the disparity of education and income between races 50 years ago. We're paying for the current disparity.

A very large portion of whites in this country benefit from smaller class sizes, more dollars spent per student, more faculty per student ... and better overall quality of education.

An equally large portion "minorities" in this country don't have that benefit. Inner city schools are packed, understaffed, under funded and the quality of education is "I just work here".

While it is true that whites are subject to the same detriment, they're not subject to it on the same scale. Smaller communities are largely white, smaller communities often reap better end of education stick.

Until that disparity can be addressed, we're left with the admission standards we have.

[Tsa`ah]

And you're an asshole that no one here seems to like. Go back to googling shit and passing that off as your opinion/fact. You're good at that.

Better yet, how about go find a friend? Do you even have any?

You mean internet friends?

/wrists ...

Bitch please. Just because I don't have the cheerleading squad at my back doesn't mean a thing. If you can't take it, don't dish it.

You'd probably be amazed that there are several people on this board that go at each other's throat day in and day out ... get along just fine elsewhere.

[oldanforgotten]

Blah blah excuse internetz insult JU!



Yea, sounds like a plan. More pom poms please. And I'm sure you get along just fine with people posting boat and inflatable raft jokes to Cubans.
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[oldanforgotten]

You'd probably be amazed that there are several people on this board that go at each other's throat day in and day out ... get along just fine elsewhere.

It's too bad you arent one of them eh?
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[Tsa`ah]

Do you often wonder why you call your brother "Pa"?

[Parkbandit]

It's too bad you arent one of them eh?


Actually, in a non-political area, Tsa'ah is almost 'normal'.

Of course.. he's very envious of Falgrin right now.. so who knows.

[TheEschaton]

The problem in the end is that it’s just a piece of damn paper that says you know something. The guy who comes out of Princeton with that piece of paper has the same basic foundation of knowledge as the person who comes out of Generic U,

The problem is the "same basic foundation of knowledge" means jack shit in terms of political power and legal power.

As for your friend, good for him. I think I've done pretty well as a first generation (second generation in terms of higher education) immigrant. He's done even better. The fact of the matter is that growing up in inner-city Baltimore put him at a severe disadvantage. If you put Dubya in inner-city Baltimore, made him black, and then had a father who was more likely to be in jail than not, do you think he'd be President? I think not.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

The problem is the "same basic foundation of knowledge" means jack shit in terms of political power and legal power.

As for your friend, good for him. I think I've done pretty well as a first generation (second generation in terms of higher education) immigrant. He's done even better. The fact of the matter is that growing up in inner-city Baltimore put him at a severe disadvantage. If you put Dubya in inner-city Baltimore, made him black, and then had a father who was more likely to be in jail than not, do you think he'd be President? I think not.

-TheE-

So we shouldn't vote for Obama because he's black?

I wasn't going to vote for Obama, because he's a stupid liberal. Weird.

[oldanforgotten]

The problem is the "same basic foundation of knowledge" means jack shit in terms of political power and legal power.

As for your friend, good for him. I think I've done pretty well as a first generation (second generation in terms of higher education) immigrant. He's done even better. The fact of the matter is that growing up in inner-city Baltimore put him at a severe disadvantage. If you put Dubya in inner-city Baltimore, made him black, and then had a father who was more likely to be in jail than not, do you think he'd be President? I think not.

-TheE-


I don't think he should be president now, but that's immaterial.

These academic programs are not meant for any happy go lucky underqualified person off the street to succeed in. If you go to an engineering program at a State University, many of those students have not taken Calculus, or college level physics, or college level chemistry, and so the earlier classes will be tailored to meet those needs. At the top programs, that is NOT the case, and those people who come in as such are almost bound to fail. Just as there is uproar about their ability to get preferential admission over more qualified people because of their race, the validating point in the argument is that they end up dropping out at a higher percentage, thus making them a waste of an admission. As a result, those people who DID get in on their own merit are often pre-branded and have to fight off that prejudice before ever taking a step into a classroom.

The underqualified people who got in made it even HARDER for him to succeed. That he did anyway is a testament to his capabilities.
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[Tsa`ah]

You're off base still.

Without the pre-reqs, no student ... regardless of color, is getting in on any level.

No student is getting into an engineering program without the pre-reqs. No student is getting into a pre-med program without the pre-reqs. No student is getting into advanced mathematic theory program without the pre-reqs.

I have yet to see any college program that allows someone into an advanced program because of skin color and without the basic requirements of that program.

[oldanforgotten]

You're off base still.

Without the pre-reqs, no student ... regardless of color, is getting in on any level.

No student is getting into an engineering program without the pre-reqs. No student is getting into a pre-med program without the pre-reqs. No student is getting into advanced mathematic theory program without the pre-reqs.

I have yet to see any college program that allows someone into an advanced program because of skin color and without the basic requirements of that program.

Dude, are you that stupid? Calculus is not a pre-req. None of those classes are. Some people even take the classes again in college. But the difference in professor attitude, and the pace of the early classes is inherently different when the vast majority of incoming freshman have already taken many of the classes. It allows a lot more flexibility in scheduling, so as to take some of the harder classes earlier on, and not take them all in the same semester. But most of all, the inherent challenges don?t hit the more prepared people in the face quite as hard, so fewer of them feel like a deer in headlights when they are put to task with some of the more difficult assignments. Those top programs don?t ease people in nearly as much, they get right into the meat of the program, so you can complete the required classroom work more quickly, and get onto either higher topics, or practical applications classwork in the junior and senior years.

But just because Calculus is not a pre-req, and having college class experience is not a pre-req, the top programs inheritently have basically everyone coming in who has it anyway, and in essence, it is the expectation.

Getting into Princeton Engineering without Calc/Physics/Chem/Stats is the equivalent of starting to play a sport at the age of 16 and then trying to get a scholarship for college playing it. Yes, its possible, and yes, its been done many times before, but it is much much harder, and you are starting with a huge disadvantage.

Bottom line is without those classes in advance, you are not only coming in with more coursework to complete, but you will be taking the most difficult line up the tree, with almost no flexibility in the schedule. When you then consider on top of that, that these are not generally the brightest in the crop, and than 10-15% of the best drop out even with the preparation, and it is clear that the lesser qualified people are absolutely set up for failure.
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[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I didn't get past the 15 or 20th post here, but anytime I see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton weighing in on issues like this, I have difficulty seeing that it isn't "anti-racism". They are bad spokesmen, I think pretty much everyone agrees to that.

On one other point -- how can you (TheE) support a march sponsored by Jackson/Sharpton, but not support a white supremacist march? Freedom of speech and all that, even if they are ignorant idiots. I personally don't think they should be "allowed" to march, but then I'm not you posting on these boards about peace, tranquility and ghandi for all, lets hug it out and have a drum circle. You are taking away rights from a minority group, how dare you.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by SHM
On one other point -- how can you (TheE) support a march sponsored by Jackson/Sharpton, but not support a white supremacist march? Freedom of speech and all that, even if they are ignorant idiots. I personally don't think they should be "allowed" to march, but then I'm not you posting on these boards about peace, tranquility and ghandi for all, lets hug it out and have a drum circle. You are taking away rights from a minority group, how dare you.


Originally Posted by TheE
But I support their right to free speech.

Just sayin..

[Warriorbird]

Let's hug it out, bitches!

[Tsa`ah]

Dude, are you that stupid? ....

Your wall o text has my eyes crossed and wondering if you can remember anything you post by the time you post again.

Let me refresh your memory.


These academic programs are not meant for any happy go lucky underqualified person off the street to succeed in. If you go to an engineering program at a State University, many of those students have not taken Calculus, or college level physics, or college level chemistry, and so the earlier classes will be tailored to meet those needs.

Outside of your attempt to slam a state college with a broad sweeping generalization ... this is really no different than any other college. You're countering your own argument.


At the top programs, that is NOT the case, and those people who come in as such are almost bound to fail. Just as there is uproar about their ability to get preferential admission over more qualified people because of their race, the validating point in the argument is that they end up dropping out at a higher percentage, thus making them a waste of an admission. As a result, those people who DID get in on their own merit are often pre-branded and have to fight off that prejudice before ever taking a step into a classroom.

Your assertion is that in the top programs, people of a darker skin color get without the required education ... this is false. You're not getting into an engineering program ... or any program in any school without the pre-reqs. What part of that statement do you not understand?

I can maybe see a gripe about an inner city black kid who graduated at the top of his class, but still doesn't meet the requirements getting into Harvard, but he's not getting into any program he doesn't have the reqs for, or tests past. Then again your gripe is pretty moot ... and I'll have to ask Tijay/Sean to post the cartoon explaining it to you.


The underqualified people who got in made it even HARDER for him to succeed. That he did anyway is a testament to his capabilities.

That is bullshit. He succeeded on his own merit or he failed on his own merit. A minority failing had no impact one way or another, just as a white kid failing had no impact.

[oldanforgotten]

Your wall o text has my eyes crossed and wondering if you can remember anything you post by the time you post again.

Let me refresh your memory.



Outside of your attempt to slam a state college with a broad sweeping generalization ... this is really no different than any other college. You're countering your own argument.



You're assertion is that in the top programs, people of a darker skin color get without the required education ... this is false. You're not getting into an engineering program ... or any program in any school without the pre-reqs. What part of that statement do you not understand?

I can maybe see a gripe about an inner city black kid who graduated at the top of his class, but still doesn't meet the requirements getting into Harvard, but he's not getting into any program he doesn't have the reqs for, or tests past. Then again your gripe is pretty moot ... and I'll have to ask Tijay/Sean to post the cartoon explaining it to you.



That is bullshit. He succeeded on his own merit or he failed on his own merit. A minority failing had no impact one way or another, just as a white kid failing had no impact.

Holy shit?.

I am not slamming state university programs you ignorant shit. The expected start points are different, and if you didn?t know that, then on top of being stupid, you have no common sense. The end point in terms of required coursework is also the same, only that the path to get there is more rigorous, and additional practical projects are required, thus justifying the higher starting salaries in general.

To graduate from high school, you don?t need to go any further than two years of Algebra. To get into any college, you require no more than two years of Algebra. Meeting minimum pre-reqs for a program and having the foundation required to succeed at the top programs are two entirely different things. No accredited engineering program, not even Princeton, Caltech, or MIT REQUIRE any additional coursework beyond what is required to complete high school. By your definition, anyone and everyone can shift from one program to another and it wouldn?t make a difference, because since the entrance criteria in terms of pure coursework are the EXACT same, it shouldn?t make a difference AMIRITE? Yeah, gg.

As for his argument and uphill climb based on pre-conception, I didn?t fucking know you were there. I was. He was. Go out and try and find yourself a solid study group from the get-go if there is a pre-conceived notion about you. Go knock yourself the fuck out. Because you were there too, I forgot, and you know the exact culture of the program, and similar programs, and you know inner city upbringings, and you know best about what fights everyone had to make to succeed. You know all bro.

Go back to your pompoms, asshole.
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[Tsa`ah]

That wasn't what you were arguing ... now you're just foaming trivialities from the ass.

In any case.

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=2412

[Tsa`ah]

Can someone point out where the super secret "black" requirements are for Princeton's engineering program?


SAT Subject Tests for engineering
If you are considering a degree in engineering at
Princeton, we require that your three SAT Subject
Tests include either physics or chemistry and either
mathematics level I or level II. Students who intend to
pursue the Bachelor of Science in Engineering (B.S.E.)
degree must have completed one year of high school
physics prior to entering Princeton.

And also point out where the super secret "black" requirements for this program ... and what exactly the differences are in requirements outside of the super secret "black" requirements?

http://www.njit.edu/admissions/undergraduate/applying/freshmen.php

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Just sayin..

Whoops, my bad. I missed the first one and all I read was the next few posts about the "level" or racism one march had versus the other. I take it all back, except the parts about I'm not you posting on these boards about peace, tranquility and ghandi for all, lets hug it out and have a drum circle.

:love: :hug2:

[oldanforgotten]

Can someone point out where the super secret "black" requirements are for Princeton's engineering program?



And also point out where the super secret "black" requirements for this program ... and what exactly the differences are in requirements outside of the super secret "black" requirements?

http://www.njit.edu/admissions/undergraduate/applying/freshmen.php

Yes, you're right. Everyone coming into princeton has completed the minimum requirements for admission, and therefore is starting from the exact same position. No one has taken calculus, as all the people who have taken and excelled in the more advanced coursework at Princeton went elsewhere.

There are super secret black requirements though. The black students are required to have at least 6 or 7 college credits before they can come in, or they are underqualified.

Seriously, you should shut the fuck up. You will never know the princeton engineering culture or what the average freshman understanding and profile is because you weren't there. Judging from your utter stupidity, googling and general lack of common sense, it's probably best because you would have failed out anyway.

When the average freshman incoming has 6-8 college credits, they start out in different courses, are more prepared for the rigors of the program, and have a better general understanding at the start than someone who hasn't. That being said, there is nothing REQUIRING any of those college credits to get in. It's just that the people in those situations are generally a deer in headlights. Kind of like what happens to you when your picture gets posted.

So a freshman can get into Princeton with a math level 1, high school physics and high school chemistry. I still can honestly not believe you don't understand the difference between math level 1 and two years of calculus, high school physics and college physics, or high school chem/college chem. That, honestly, is baffling. You know what, you're better off believing your super secret black theory, because explaining the truth to you is just not possible. You're too fucking stupid.
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[Tsa`ah]

I think it's time for you to craft a pointy hooded tinfoil hat.

[TheEschaton]

Oh, SHIT, TSA`AH, YOU WILL NEVAR KNOW THE PRINCETON ENGINEERING FRESHMAN EXPERIENCE!!!!!111one!!!1

lrn2Princeton, Tsa`ah, you dumb old man.

-TheE-

[oldanforgotten]

No, dipshit, he was there. That's how he knows exactly what everyone there was going through, and what it took to get through it. That's why he is able to so effectively communicate to everyone exactly how everyone felt, what classes people took before getting there, and such. He was the valedictorian of the class, he got a 4.0 majoring in "googling shit"
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[Tsa`ah]

No, dipshit, he was there. That's how he knows exactly what everyone there was going through, and what it took to get through it. That's why he is able to so effectively communicate to everyone exactly how everyone felt, what classes people took before getting there, and such. He was the valedictorian of the class, he got a 4.0 majoring in "googling shit"

Wow ... you're pretty clever for a retard. I think in a few more years you'll make an excellent Tamral ... with that elitist engineering student schtick you've got going ... with a Princeton background to boot!

Sorry, I graduated from a pre-prof program out of one of those state colleges. Granted ... it wasn't ivy league, but I managed a 3.9. Could have been a 4.0, but you know how it goes. Someone rolls a keg down the dorm hall and you follow like a cat under the spell of a can of tuna being opened. You know you should really just stay in your room and pound disease classification into your skull for the next 5 hours because you know that sadistic grad student is going to lay down a pop quiz ... like he does every Thursday ... but it's beer ... and you haven't had one in 72 hours. Just one or two from a freshly tapped keg. After all it's only 7 and you can make it back to your room in a half hour ... but what's this? It's 9 and you can barely stand when someone with a desire to ingratiate themselves on the rest of the dorm for cool points starts rolling up some stinky sticky. Well it would be just down right rude to deny this kid his cool points and ... how in the fuck did I get in the lobby? Where are my clothes? Why is the sun out at 12:30 in the morning ... and who's hand is ignoring the my personal space designated by my boxes while ever so gently cupping my right ass cheek?

But I digress.

Here's the problem with your "quota" argument ... and additionally your inability, or rather your room mate's, to accept personal responsibility.

You recognize that anyone entering the engineering program has met the minimum requirement for admission into said program. You assert that because they're black they got in ... but they're unqualified because they haven't taken any level of calc. And because they're unqualified, that makes it harder on you. And since this is Princeton's engineering program ... no one but you and those in the program understands.

1. Retarded is a standard well beyond your grasp.
2. College is college. It's not HS and someone "behind" the curve has zero impact on your, or your room mate's, progress.
3. Calc isn't required for the program, yet you think it should be because .... it would keep the blacks out?
4. You're one of those guys who'll rail and rant about "racial" issues, making your racist views pretty transparent .. yet somewhat uncallable because of the terminology and circumspect manner in which you ramble about it. You'll go on for hours if needed, pointing out how you're not racist ... and as proof you'll use the limited number of "friends" you have as an example.
5. No one buys it.
6. You have a problem with the program, and it's requirements ... yet instead of arguing that you run to quotas and how it's everyone else's fault that you, or your room mate, had difficulties.

I could go on ... but you haven't demonstrated a valid fucking point on how an "unqualified" black student got into the program because of skin color, nor have you demonstrated with any validity how said student has any impact on you.

[oldanforgotten]

Wow ... you're pretty clever for a retard. I think in a few more years you'll make an excellent Tamral ... with that elitist engineering student schtick you've got going ... with a Princeton background to boot!

Sorry, I graduated from a pre-prof program out of one of those state colleges. Granted ... it wasn't ivy league, but I managed a 3.9. Could have been a 4.0, but you know how it goes. Someone rolls a keg down the dorm hall and you follow like a cat under the spell of a can of tuna being opened. You know you should really just stay in your room and pound disease classification into your skull for the next 5 hours because you know that sadistic grad student is going to lay down a pop quiz ... like he does every Thursday ... but it's beer ... and you haven't had one in 72 hours. Just one or two from a freshly tapped keg. After all it's only 7 and you can make it back to your room in a half hour ... but what's this? It's 9 and you can barely stand when someone with a desire to ingratiate themselves on the rest of the dorm for cool points starts rolling up some stinky sticky. Well it would be just down right rude to deny this kid his cool points and ... how in the fuck did I get in the lobby? Where are my clothes? Why is the sun out at 12:30 in the morning ... and who's hand is ignoring the my personal space designated by my boxes while ever so gently cupping my right ass cheek?

But I digress.

Here's the problem with your "quota" argument ... and additionally your inability, or rather your room mate's, to accept personal responsibility.

You recognize that anyone entering the engineering program has met the minimum requirement for admission into said program. You assert that because they're black they got in ... but they're unqualified because they haven't taken any level of calc. And because they're unqualified, that makes it harder on you. And since this is Princeton's engineering program ... no one but you and those in the program understands.

1. Retarded is a standard well beyond your grasp.
2. College is college. It's not HS and someone "behind" the curve has zero impact on your, or your room mate's, progress.
3. Calc isn't required for the program, yet you think it should be because .... it would keep the blacks out?
4. You're one of those guys who'll rail and rant about "racial" issues, making your racist views pretty transparent .. yet somewhat uncallable because of the terminology and circumspect manner in which you ramble about it. You'll go on for hours if needed, pointing out how you're not racist ... and as proof you'll use the limited number of "friends" you have as an example.
5. No one buys it.
6. You have a problem with the program, and it's requirements ... yet instead of arguing that you run to quotas and how it's everyone else's fault that you, or your room mate, had difficulties.

I could go on ... but you haven't demonstrated a valid fucking point on how an "unqualified" black student got into the program because of skin color, nor have you demonstrated with any validity how said student has any impact on you.

First of all, I?m not black.

Second of all, you have absolutely no concept whatsoever of what levels of preparation are required. Now have I said black people don?t take calculus, or that they were the only unprepared ones. By ratio, they were more unprepared than others, but several of them had taken it.

Third, quotas are quotas, and by definition a race based quota will allow people in of certain races over people who would otherwise have been better qualified academically.

Now just go google some more shit. As stupid/asshole/elitist as Tamral was/is, I can?t begin to think he is even on same order of an asshole as you. As for you even talking about other people being elitist, that?s a sad, sad irony, Mr Google Wizard. Now, go use your 3.9 GPA in Googling shit to teach people how to google some more pompoms.

Although thanks for giving me my laugh for the day. I always get a chuckle out of google kings thinking they know more about everything and anything on any topic than everyone. As for your comments before about WoW raiding, thank you to the person that pointed out that you and your guild are still working on Gruul as well. Obviously, you are privy and know the raiding experience best and know what levels of skill are required and better than everyone else as well, because you obviously found someone?s blog from a guild that downed Illidan and googled it up. Can I have the link?

While you're at it, can you google MIT's engineering requirements for me as well? get Caltech too while you're at it, and go google one of the student's blogs so you can teach us all what it's like to go there.
________
Alcohol Rehab Dicussion (http://www.rehab-forum.com/alcohol-rehab/)

[Sean]

Originally Posted by OaF
Second of all, you have absolutely no concept whatsoever of what levels of preparation are required. Now have I said black people don’t take calculus, or that they were the only unprepared ones. By ratio, they were more unprepared than others, but several of them had taken it.

Out of curiosity what's your stance (regardless of race) on access to Ivy league education for those who received an inner city education as opposed to suburban education?

[oldanforgotten]

Out of curiosity what's your stance (regardless of race) on access to Ivy league education for those who received an inner city education as opposed to suburban education?

I don?t have a stance on where the person was educated, or how. Nor does it matter what religion or skin color they have. Acceptance should be merit based, and merit based only, which means, IMHO, the race box should not exist on the application, nor should a person?s sex.

If there are 500 spots open, the 500 most qualified applicants should get in. This may, unfortunately, exclude people from some schools that don?t offer higher level coursework, or make it more difficult for them, since they may only have the option to take the higher level coursework at a community college, or by special arrangement. Based on the coursework, standardized tests, and other ACADEMIC factors, admission should be granted or denied.
________
OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER (OCD) FORUMS (http://www.health-forums.org/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/)

[oldanforgotten]

Out of curiosity what's your stance (regardless of race) on access to Ivy league education for those who received an inner city education as opposed to suburban education?

And just as an FYI on top of that. I went to one of the "inner city" high schools. I just happened to be lucky in that they had a program that allowed me to take classes at a local university during my junior and senior years.
________
M6 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_M6)

[Daniel]

I also bet you believe that the 'white' tree was for white people only.. and that the nooses were put there to keep the blacks out from under the white tree.

Yea. I don't know why black people would bitch about nooses being hung up. You obviously missed the memo where racism does not exist in America.

For shame.

[Daniel]

, and unfair to black people as a whole because it escalates our dropout rate. It's like a big joke. .

Kinda hard to have a drop out rate if hardly anyone is there.

[Daniel]

get your MBA from Princeton within 18 months after that with a 4.0,

Your story is bullshit, and the above quotation is prove positive.

Princeton does not have an MBA program. It never has, and it never will. If you want to talk about the reasons why, feel free, but stop feeding us bullshit stories.

[oldanforgotten]

Your story is bullshit, and the above quotation is prove positive.

Princeton does not have an MBA program. It never has, and it never will. If you want to talk about the reasons why, feel free, but stop feeding us bullshit stories.


You know, you're right. Even though it is essentially treated as such, his degree is an MS in Finance and Technology Management, not an MBA. Semantics. Ask your resident googling expert to google that shit up for you. Aw, hell, here, I'll make it nice and easy for you:

http://www.princeton.edu/%7Ebcf/master.htm
________
CHRYSLER PATRIOT SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Chrysler_Patriot)

[Daniel]

You know, you're right. Even though it is essentially treated as such, his degree is an MS in Finance and Technology Management, not an MBA. Semantics. Ask your resident googling expert to google that shit up for you. Aw, hell, here, I'll make it nice and easy for you:

http://www.princeton.edu/%7Ebcf/master.htm

Except not.

If you're gonna sit here and talk down to people like you somehow know everything about higher education, than I'd expect you to at least get that right. There are some pretty good reasons why Princeton does not have a business program, and if you don't know them..than well, I'm calling Shenangians.

[Daniel]

and... I quote:



The easiest way to recognize a bullshit artist is that they portend to know everything. The next easiest way is that they keep quoting other sources without having a clue of the context,
.

Takes one to know one eh?

[Parkbandit]

Yea. I don't know why black people would bitch about nooses being hung up. You obviously missed the memo where racism does not exist in America.

For shame.


We were talking about evidence in a court of law.. not "IT IS SO BECAUSE I AM BLACK AND I AM OFFENDED"

Yes Daniel.. we know. You are black and obviously the victim.

[TheEschaton]

And you are white, and obviously a racist. ;)

[Parkbandit]

And you are white, and obviously a racist. ;)

At least I'm not stealing jobs from AMERICANS, you filthy immigrant. :P

[TheEschaton]

But I thought you would never be a lawyer anyways? ;)

-TheE-

[Daniel]

We were talking about evidence in a court of law.. not "IT IS SO BECAUSE I AM BLACK AND I AM OFFENDED"

Yes Daniel.. we know. You are black and obviously the victim.

Last time I checked, a court of law didn't determine whether or not something was Racism.

[Daniel]

I’m not white either, and my roommate was a hell of a lot smarter than I was, so I tell you what. When you can graduate from the top electrical engineering program in the country with a 3.9 in 3 1/2 years, get your MBA from Princeton within 18 months after that with a 4.0, become a director at Bear Sterns by 26, become president of real estate company in South Carolina by 29, and get onto a City Council by 30, standing yourself on a short list of people to be promoted by the Democratic Party for a Congressional Election the day you turn 35 (when you are still 30), then by all means, go and call my black roommate ignorant. Frankly, I admire the guy, and he’s done a whole lot more than most people ever have already.

Okay so. He goes to college at 18. Graduates at 21.5 he then goes to this finance progeam and graduates in 1.5 So that's 23 years old. He's currently 30.

So that brings him to graduating in 2000. Interesting, considering that the program hadn't been started until 2001....

[Tsa`ah]

First of all, I’m not black.

Well I'm sure the black communities at large heaved a deep sigh of relief over this ... but no one said you were black. I'm guessing some sort of reading disability on your part ... which explains much.


Second of all, you have absolutely no concept whatsoever of what levels of preparation are required. Now have I said black people don’t take calculus, or that they were the only unprepared ones. By ratio, they were more unprepared than others, but several of them had taken it.

I have no concept? I'm sorry, but you have no basis for this remark. I have a degree. I graduated from highschool (fortune on my part, one of the better in the state), and then went on to college .... and graduated from there as well.

No, by your own admission ... they (the black people) were qualified enough to enter the program. It's just your belief that because they didn't have calc under their belt that they were dragging down the program ... and holding the white men back.

It's a preposterous notion. You have to recognize that it's the program you have a problem with, or the instruction. But as I said, you decided to target the blacks.


Third, quotas are quotas, and by definition a race based quota will allow people in of certain races over people who would otherwise have been better qualified academically.

Yet it's still a one sided argument. You left out the space taken up by legacies, those that otherwise purchased a spot, or are in attendance based upon a non-academic scholarship ... or we can even push the scholarship issue further by suggesting that there are those in attendance based upon an academic scholarship given in leu of athletic ability.

I'm sorry, but it's undergrad study. I don't care if it's Princeton, Harvard, or good old State U. They're not letting people in who don't have the basic requirements. They're not allowing entrance into any program without the basic requirements. Thus your issue is with the basic requirements ... you just chose to cry about the blacks that are given an opportunity they normally wouldn't get.


Now just go google some more shit. As stupid/asshole/elitist as Tamral was/is, I can’t begin to think he is even on same order of an asshole as you.

Have I ever claimed I wasn't an asshole? The moniker doesn't bother me. I am an asshole of great magnitude ... it just takes a certain type of person to really bring it out. You've managed it rather nicely.


As for you even talking about other people being elitist, that’s a sad, sad irony, Mr Google Wizard. Now, go use your 3.9 GPA in Googling shit to teach people how to google some more pompoms.

Laughable from you. That's the best you have? You're entire argument has been deflated and your bullshit called. I didn't have to google anything other than the comic to point out your inability to comprehend socioeconomic and educational disparity between races and the plethora of non-black "unqualified" students.


Although thanks for giving me my laugh for the day. I always get a chuckle out of google kings thinking they know more about everything and anything on any topic than everyone. As for your comments before about WoW raiding, thank you to the person that pointed out that you and your guild are still working on Gruul as well. Obviously, you are privy and know the raiding experience best and know what levels of skill are required and better than everyone else as well, because you obviously found someone’s blog from a guild that downed Illidan and googled it up. Can I have the link?

Holy shit ... you have a rather LARGE e-peen. And you know what they say about the e-peen to real peen ratio.

What in the fuck does Warcraft have to do with this debate? I mean the attempt at that failed (and miserably at that) cheapshot just screams mental incompetency.

As for my "knowing" everything ... you and others should really take a look at my posting habits. I weigh in more on social topics than anything ... outside of that I participate in threads I have some knowledge of. That covers maybe 2-3 threads per week ... most of which is opinion. But some butthurt bitch every now and again likes to pick up the pom poms and jump on that poor horse that beaten to death years ago and join in on a cheer that they somehow believe will mask their inability to engage in a debate of any sort.

I'll let you in on a little secret. You're an undergrad. Since you're an ivy ug ... well ivy ugs are a quarter a dozen ... that won't change much when you graduate. The rest of us may be a dime a dozen, but we don't have this over inflated sense of self worth.

Hell, if I had the cash in 92 .. I'd be an ivy grad if I were so caught up in the "prestige" of it all. Your accomplishment isn't spectacular and isn't any greater than the kids pushing through Jr college before going onto a university. In the end you'll just have the leg up on more competent people with similar degrees.


While you're at it, can you google MIT's engineering requirements for me as well? get Caltech too while you're at it, and go google one of the student's blogs so you can teach us all what it's like to go there.

Here's what you're missing skippy ... I've been through it. It doesn't matter if you're an eng asshole, or a pre-law prick, it's all the same. The competition and stress are self induced. It's not a race and employers really don't care if your gpa was 3.2 or a 4.0 ... they care about your ability to do the job.

I left all that behind the day they said I was educated enough to get that piece of paper. I could really care less about what you're going through, what you had to go through and what you accomplished.

You can down Illidan once a week and never get laid until the day before you /wrist yourself out of this world. Or marry the first woman/man that will listen to your incessant bitching and moaning about how unjust the world is to you ... it doesn't matter to me. I'm going to post this, read a few others threads and maybe make a few more posts in threads of interest to me. Then I'm going to flip over to the IJ forums and listen to PB cry about how much he hates me for pointing out that my business cleared 60 grand for the week going into our dead season. I'll then log on WoW .. tool around a bit, log off, put my kids to bed, sex up the wife ... maybe ... and maybe cuddle or watch TV until I pass out ... and do it again tomorrow.

You don't impress me, and you haven't convinced me of anything other than you're a 20 something crybaby with a ego problem who accepts no personal responsibility for his shortcomings ... so he'd rather blame an entire race over quotas.

Incidentally, care to name the disadvantaged inner city highschool you graduated from? I need another laugh.

[Parkbandit]

But I thought you would never be a lawyer anyways? ;)

-TheE-

I dispise lawyers.. I would never, ever think that little of myself to become one.

But that doesn't mean I should just be ignorant on how the law works. One day, some piece of shit Judge may try to sue me for 54 million dollars.. and I want to be able to laugh at him.

[Parkbandit]

Holy Fucking WallofTextwithQuotes Tsa'ah. For the love of god.. stop.

If you need 1248 words to get your point across on a forum.. you might be overcompensating for something.

[TheEschaton]

Coming from the man with a wall of text saved in a file to post whenever he doesn't want to make a legitimate point.

Oh, and that's a nice sentiment, but you don't know the law at all.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

Coming from the man with a wall of text saved in a file to post whenever he doesn't want to make a legitimate point.

Oh, and that's a nice sentiment, but you don't know the law at all.

-TheE-


The Wall of Text is more of a joke.. much like you.

And yes TheE.. we know you are a law student. It warms my heart knowing you will someday be a lawyer... my instincts about you must have been dead on from day 1.

[Gan]

http://www.glarkware.com/productcart/pc/catalog/main-ambulance.jpg
...

[DeV]

Oh, and that's a nice sentiment, but you don't know the law at all.

-TheE-You didn't know? Everyone hates lawyers 'till they or their family need one. :rtfm:

[Tsa`ah]

Holy Fucking WallofTextwithQuotes Tsa'ah. For the love of god.. stop.

If you need 1248 words to get your point across on a forum.. you might be overcompensating for something.

Some people need it drawn out for them, others trip up and fall on their faces if they have to read more than 20 words. This was a case of both.

The funny thing is that I'm firmly against quotas programs and any form of affirmative action. I'm all for merit. However, I do recognize an obvious disparity and concede that some quotas will be necessary in education until the day comes where that disparity doesn't exist.

The argument that these "quota" students take opportunities away from more qualified students is complete bullshit. I can't find the empathy, let alone tears, for white students with a solid productive highschool education coming from families that can afford Ivy League tuition not getting into said schools because of quotas. It's not just the quotas the kept them out, it's a number of other student types that kept them out as well. There's also the possibility, parish the thought, that the school admissions panel didn't want them either. It's not like they don't have choices, they just have to look elsewhere. They're not being denied an education, they're just turned away from the education of their choice.

Welcome to the real world. Lots of HS grads can't go to the college of their choice because of cash. I'm willing to go out on a limb here and suggest that there are kids a plenty in Jr college and state college that are miles ahead of ivy leaguers. That they're not in an ivy league college is the result of being born with an anus bereft of a spoon cast from a precious metal.

Another thing struck me last night as I logged off ... wasn't really worth logging back on ..

But drop out rates are a fucking boon to anyone graduating from a program. At least that's one of the criteria anyone going into a medical program looks for.

When comparing say RNb programs, you look at how many people drop or fail out of the programs. The higher the number the better. Why? Because it shows the program only graduates those capable of doing the job. If programs A, B and C enroll 400 students each year and program A graduates 75, B graduates 264, and C graduates 310 ... you fucking want in on program A if you care about the clout of your degree.

All this bitching about "quota" students dragging down the program ... bullshit.

[Clove]

Holy Fucking WallofTextwithQuotes Tsa'ah. For the love of god.. stop.

If you need 1248 words to get your point across on a forum.. you might be overcompensating for something.


I still seek revenge upon my wife for decapitating Destro when we were kids.

Coincidence?

:thinking:

[Daniel]

You know, you're right. Even though it is essentially treated as such, his degree is an MS in Finance and Technology Management, not an MBA. Semantics. Ask your resident googling expert to google that shit up for you. Aw, hell, here, I'll make it nice and easy for you:

http://www.princeton.edu/%7Ebcf/master.htm

Except not.

If you're gonna sit here and talk down to people like you somehow know everything about higher education, than I'd expect you to at least get that right. There are some pretty good reasons why Princeton does not have a business program, and if you don't know them..than well, I'm calling Shenangians.


Originally Posted by oldanforgotten
I’m not white either, and my roommate was a hell of a lot smarter than I was, so I tell you what. When you can graduate from the top electrical engineering program in the country with a 3.9 in 3 1/2 years, get your MBA from Princeton within 18 months after that with a 4.0, become a director at Bear Sterns by 26, become president of real estate company in South Carolina by 29, and get onto a City Council by 30, standing yourself on a short list of people to be promoted by the Democratic Party for a Congressional Election the day you turn 35 (when you are still 30), then by all means, go and call my black roommate ignorant. Frankly, I admire the guy, and he’s done a whole lot more than most people ever have already.


Okay so. He goes to college at 18. Graduates at 21.5 he then goes to this finance progeam and graduates in 1.5 So that's 23 years old. He's currently 30.

So that brings him to graduating in 2000. Interesting, considering that the program hadn't been started until 2001....


So since you're posting again OldandNotsoforgotton, care to explain this?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Tamral used to post a lot about his education and why it made him better than everyone else.

[Daniel]

He also used to post wall o' texts.

He also used to claim to know "some poor guy who made it" or "some black guy who made it" or "some uneducated guy who worked his way through princeton" to justify his positions because they did too.

and he also used to abruptly dissapear when called upon his bullshit, only to surface a few days later in another thread entirely.