Official: Prayer of Holding(301) Update

[Fallen]

The Cleric spell 301, Prayer of Holding, has been updated.

The mana cost of the spell has been changed from 1 mana per 2 levels of the target, capped at 20 mana to a summation seed 1 based off of the target's level. That is, a level 1 target costs 1 mana whereas a level 105 target costs 14 mana. This mana cost grows at a much slower rate than the previous one.

The duration of Prayer of Holding previously was dramatically influenced by the level of the caster. This factor has been reduced in importance and replaced with an increased importance of warding margin (endroll).

When imbedded by the Magic Item Creation or Holy Receptacle spells or charged by the Charge Item spell, Prayer of Holding counts as a level 8 spell to emulate the variable mana cost for different targets.

Prayer of Holding now counts as a spell of war.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

This message was originally posted in Clerics, Cleric Spells. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=25&topic=26&message=6804

[TheEschaton]

.....and still useless for Bane clerics.

[ViridianAsp]

.....and still useless for Bane clerics.

Which sucks...They should have made it useful against the living.

[Axhinde]

That's part of the choice they make.

[Fallen]

If this spell worked against the living, why would anyone use Bind over this spell?

[TheEschaton]

Interference + Bind can be pretty powerful for something you can't hit very well.

[Rathain]

If this spell worked against the living, why would anyone use Bind over this spell?

No cleric really uses bind anyway, except for weapon swingers and maybe clerics under 50. It has a scaling mana cost that is level dependent, making it extremely taxing to use at higher level. For less mana, may as well use censure, because a pure cleric would have a much easier time warding with a cleric CS than a MjS CS. On some creatures, their MjS TD was about as high as their cleric TD, so at least from what I remember, it was a no brainer to use 316.

[ViridianAsp]

I tend to use 217 and 316 if hunting something over my head...otherwise, I'll just use 316, it's better for when you have more than one creature in the room, and more effective in terms of mana cost.

*shrugs* It would be nice to have a spell that would cost less to use. I know that as my character gets older it's going to be a drain on mana to use those kind of spells when I'll need to use my high mana attacks that are more effective against higher level creatures.

Personally, I don't think it should be apart of the choice we make. Bane clerics should get the same uses out of spells that smite clerics do.

[Celephais]

Personally, I don't think it should be apart of the choice we make. Bane clerics should get the same uses out of spells that smite clerics do.
That'd work if there were nearly as many undead as there are living.

[Fallen]

>>maybe that decision should be looked at again, since we can dedicate ourselves to gods who don't care whether we kill undead or not.

It is unlikely that you will see another spell in the 300s circle with a duality similar to Smite/Bane. Personally, I would rather see Smite/Bane switched to just Smite before we begin switching spells the other way.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Empath/Cleric Team

[TheEschaton]

That's fucking insane. Makes no sense from an RP point of view, and I've already explained away why my Charl cleric went from hunting undead to hunting living once.

[Latrinsorm]

Makes sense to me. Clerics are capable of anti-death manipulation (305, 308, 318), regardless of denomination. In the broadest sense, the undead phenomenon is the animation of a corpse. Clerics are thus uniquely suited to undead combat: again, regardless of denomination. If clerics didn't have ANY spells that targeted the living, that would be a little hard to swallow, but they do even without Bane.

The idea that Charl (for instance) doesn't give a crap about the undead is irrelevant unless you're also campaigning for 318 to become "Power Word, Death" or something.

[Flurbins]

Who cares, it's not a big deal if 301 doesn't work on the living. Alignment shouldn't effect your play style at all after level 50, as it's super easy to hunt opposite your 302 status.

[Sean]

How is it anymore useful for smite users than bane?

[StrayRogue]

Doesn't it only effect undead?

[Sean]

Yea but it's not a kill spell it's a utility spell. A bane cleric can still use 301.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, I think people want a bane (works on the living) like equivilent (beyond bind).

[Fallen]

Wouldn't Blinding work?

311 · Blinding [BLINDING]
Duration: 15 seconds +1 second for every 4 points warding margin

Type: Attack

This spell causes the image of the cleric's deity to be superimposed over him/herself. This vision will blind the target, causing it to be stunned for the duration of the effect.

On a warding of 20 or more (==120 or higher), there is a chance the target will be forced into a kneeling position, which is increased with training in Spiritual Lore, Religion.


Though if the creature doesn't stun, you're out of luck.

[Flurbins]

How is it anymore useful for smite users than bane?

Exactly. I'm a smite user, and I haven't fought undead in like 30 levels.

[Danical]

Though if the creature doesn't stun, you're out of luck.

Bingo.

[Fallen]

It seems like while they have spells so that they CAN hunt the living, Clerics are stilled optimally tooled to hunt undead.

[Celephais]

I think the point is that if it's living and unstunnable, it should NOT be that easy to "hold" the creature, regardless of alignment.

Wizards can sleep living creatures, but they can't do anything against undead creatures (and fuck why didn't they summate sleep at the same time?!?), seems fair that clerics have the opposite.

You really can't expect them to change the entire class based on your alignment, otherwise they'll have to implement some twenty other "semi-cleric" classes. Using the arguements I've seen here, wizards should be able to say that if you're fire aligned 901 should be a fire bolt, not a lightning bolt.

[Trouble]

I think they did 'summate' sleep too, there was a topic here on the PC a couple of days ago about it, if I'm not mistaken.

[Celephais]

I think they did 'summate' sleep too, there was a topic here on the PC a couple of days ago about it, if I'm not mistaken.
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=27981
Neat! Thanks.

Although... It's still way too mana intensive... (as is holding), 10 mana at lvl 55 is way too much for a single target disabler... especially one with a warding roll.

[Fallen]

Yeah. What the hell is wrong with having a very cheap 1 mana warding based non-stunning disabling spell? For 10 mana you can e-wave. The spell doesn't work all that great unless you ward something significantly, and a good number of creatures are immune. Other creatures can immediately wake the sleeping creatures up..I mean, geez. 1 mana for sleep is just fine IMO.

[Rathain]

Wouldn't Blinding work?

311 · Blinding [BLINDING]
Duration: 15 seconds +1 second for every 4 points warding margin

Type: Attack

This spell causes the image of the cleric's deity to be superimposed over him/herself. This vision will blind the target, causing it to be stunned for the duration of the effect.

On a warding of 20 or more (==120 or higher), there is a chance the target will be forced into a kneeling position, which is increased with training in Spiritual Lore, Religion.


Though if the creature doesn't stun, you're out of luck.

Blinding is pretty useless. 302 is cheaper, does damage, and accomplishes the same thing. If it can be stunned, 302 will do the job. Blinding is an RP type of spell that is functionally pretty useless, and like a few years ago, is there to fill a spell slot because it takes far too long to come up with a new onel. Plenty of this type of spell in every profession spell circle though.

[ViridianAsp]

Makes sense to me. Clerics are capable of anti-death manipulation (305, 308, 318), regardless of denomination. In the broadest sense, the undead phenomenon is the animation of a corpse. Clerics are thus uniquely suited to undead combat: again, regardless of denomination. If clerics didn't have ANY spells that targeted the living, that would be a little hard to swallow, but they do even without Bane.

The idea that Charl (for instance) doesn't give a crap about the undead is irrelevant unless you're also campaigning for 318 to become "Power Word, Death" or something.


personally I think like bane/smite other spells should work the same if you're cleric is of dark/light denomination. I'd give up the ability to raise in place of something, like...only bringing my cleric back from the dead (self-raise, selfish and right up the dark denomination's alley). I'd give up bless for another spell...personally I would love if my cleric could curse. RP wise it would be ideal.

Now, if they did change 302 to simply smite, then they should make a spell especially for the dark aligned that had the same cost.

[ViridianAsp]

Wouldn't Blinding work?

311 · Blinding [BLINDING]
Duration: 15 seconds +1 second for every 4 points warding margin

Type: Attack

This spell causes the image of the cleric's deity to be superimposed over him/herself. This vision will blind the target, causing it to be stunned for the duration of the effect.

On a warding of 20 or more (==120 or higher), there is a chance the target will be forced into a kneeling position, which is increased with training in Spiritual Lore, Religion.


Though if the creature doesn't stun, you're out of luck.


I'd say maybe 5 times out of 10 this works on creatures at your level...it's useless and a waste of mana, the stun barely lasts long enough. It's good for RP...but that's about it.

[Sean]

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't matter if it works on the living vs undead the spell has the same function for both bane and smite. If you think it's a crappy all around spell then yea I'll agree with you but I don't think bane users got hosed with this change. Unless you don't hunt undead for RP purposes or whatever you're using 301 to bind something to swing at or to restrict it from attacking you. Both of those still uses apply to bane hunters as well. I know some cleric who (although it's changed now) used to use 301 gems in the rift all the time bane or smite not because they were hunting undead but because it was a cheap cost freeze spell for undead while they killed the living stuff.

[Shifted]

As far as stunning goes, clerics have several options for that anyways... 110 and web bolt come to mind.

[Fallen]

Web bolt and the CS spell are both quite effective as disablers. Unfortunately, the CS spell is 18 mana, and the bolt requires significant amounts of summoning lore before you can consistently disable with every landed blow. The bolt only costs 9 mana. Still steep, but it does some decent damage too.

[ViridianAsp]

As far as stunning goes, clerics have several options for that anyways... 110 and web bolt come to mind.


I often use 118 when hunting creatures that disarm. 110 as well, but usually, only when I'm hunting with someone who uses weapons.

But it is a significant drain on mana. Especially in a room full of creatures.

[Shifted]

I use 118 bolt when i'm in the stronghold. I have the min 20 summoning lore, but i manage to stun with about every other shot. They shake it off fast, but at least it immobilizes them long enough for them not to be able to get off stone fist. usually.

I just use acid rods once my mana goes below about 50.

Would be nice for clerics to get a more powerful transportation spell, though. Especially when empaths lose the ability to fog. Maybe a group fog or being able to fog into places that we usually can't.

[ViridianAsp]

I use 118 bolt when i'm in the stronghold. I have the min 20 summoning lore, but i manage to stun with about every other shot. They shake it off fast, but at least it immobilizes them long enough for them not to be able to get off stone fist. usually.

I just use acid rods once my mana goes below about 50.

Would be nice for clerics to get a more powerful transportation spell, though. Especially when empaths lose the ability to fog. Maybe a group fog or being able to fog into places that we usually can't.

Nexus.

[Celephais]

Like voln isn't unappealing enough...

[Shifted]

Nexus is great, but has to be set, though. I only use it when i can't afford the rt for sickness, or when i know i won't be able to drag the body without a lot of issues.

[TheEschaton]

Has to be set is your main complaint? How hard is it to set something to the dais, or outside the portal? I mean, really.

-TheE-

[Shifted]

the complaint i have is not getting back. it's getting there. i would like to fog TO places that can't usually be fogged to. or maybe a cross-realm fog. for the times when i want to go on a rescue and i don't have spells on me