Post Cap Grinding

[senorgordoburro]

I feel like starting another debate between you GS4 guru's. What class do you think is best for post cap grinding for coin. Basically, which class of character can make the best coin once they are post cap, between enchanting, just killing and looting, skinning, anything and everything.

[Drew]

Pures.

[The Ponzzz]

I'd say Empath post cap. Then Wizards. Opinion of course...

[Fallen]

Wizards/Bards have a pretty distinct advantage, followed by empaths. Though basically, a well run MA team can clean up faster than any one character can alone.

[Jayvn]

518 + 0 RT after a cast + loot loot loot loot loot ftw

[Askip]

My capped mage does very well but I do not have any other professions capped yet to compare. With 1x in both FA & Survival he skins well too, so I often underhunt him and clean up on nice pelts.

:D

[TheEschaton]

Empaths, definitely.

[Sypher]

Maxed out warrior hands down. Can disarm/bash almost any box, 2x FA/Surv makes for pretty decent skinning as well, get one of thoe skinning knives and you're up there with rangers. Plus they are just about unkillable even relative to a maxed rogue.

But maxed warriors are a pain the ass to get plus none exist currently.

[TheEschaton]

actually, I change my opinion to clerics. They have a powerful blood-only spell for things which they could skin, can train in skinning skills relatively easily, and pwn TD and DS at cap.

-TheE-

[Sthrockmorton]

All this talks makes being a rogue depressing, but I guess we at least have style :)

[Fallen]

Are skins in OTF and the Temple Nalamar that good so as to completely negate the ability to purify gems, or open one's own boxes, or kill extremely quickly?

I would think a bard who can skin, and can kill extremely quickly, along with purifying his gems would do the best. They can haste themselves with tonis, and luck song would help boost their skinning skills. They may not make QUITE as much on their skins, but they also can 3x Trading, and would have a maxed out INF as it is a prime stat for them.

[TheEschaton]

Well, I was assuming a cleric with the proper support team. I have a young bard who purifies all my gems, and a rogue friend who picks all my boxes for free with the stipulation he keeps all the plated/orb boxes.

-TheE-

[Fallen]

I think the OP wanted to know the one class that would be the best. MAing will always win out, but I think stand alone a Bard would be best. Too many useful secondary abilities, high INF and ability to max out trading, and able to haste himself to move quickly.

[TheEschaton]

The only thing that's skinnable in OTF are war griffins anyways (at least in the main area, never bothered with gremlocks and lichs and taints and whatnot). You'll always make more on loot, and even crystal-edged weaponry, than any of that.

-TheE-

[Fallen]

Agreed. That is why I think while empaths can likely get the best skins, a Bard who CAN skin wins out.

[Sean]

I didn't bother with rogues I just 125'd all my boxes and left the mithril/enruned ones in the field.

[Kitsun]

If you're looking at characters far enough post cap to fill in all the secondary skills for picking and skinning then you just want to look at who has the best primary skills for annihilation. Wizards/bards can keep self-hasted. Wizards can simply rapidfire through enemies as well. If you're willing to take some steps to get haste/rapidfire through endless imbeds/self chargers/self mana then there really isn't an argument one way or another.

[Celephais]

If you're willing to take some steps to get haste/rapidfire through endless imbeds/self chargers/self mana then there really isn't an argument one way or another.
Well this is quite a money sink if you actually want to keep yourself perma-rapidfired and aren't a wizard... and considering he's asking about this in a silver making sense... A lot less so with haste, but one is infinitely greater than zero :)

If you call lightning a box doesn't it just fuse it into a hunk of silver? So no gems/trinkets out of it?

[TheEschaton]

you get the gems and trinkets.

[Kitsun]

The Profit made is equal to the Gains minus Loss in regards to a time period.

Theoretically if you move from killing 1 creature every 9 seconds(Avg 3 casts per kill) to killing 1 creature every 2 seconds (with rapidfire) then you're more likely to rake in more coins (via skins, gems, boxes) than you're losing from getting the spell imbedded.

[StrayRogue]

Thats why I always underhunted. One shot kills, no risk, no problems. Speedy and efficient.

[Celephais]

The Profit made is equal to the Gains minus Loss in regards to a time period.

Theoretically if you move from killing 1 creature every 9 seconds(Avg 3 casts per kill) to killing 1 creature every 2 seconds (with rapidfire) then you're more likely to rake in more coins (via skins, gems, boxes) than you're losing from getting the spell imbedded.
I'm not disagreeing with you... but lets put it this way (numbers are illustrative):

Mage: 100k per hour
Cleric: 25k per hour
Cleric w/ Rapid fire: 112k per hour (22 * 9/2) - 30k for imbeds = 82k per hour

Obviously if you're paying for the imbed the mage has the advantage, any way you slice it. Short of a cleric w/ rapid fire making more than a mage with rapid fire plus cost of imbeds you won't make up the difference.

The sheer number of imbeds needed for a non-wizard to constantly hunt w/ rapid fire would cut heavily into profits I imagine. If it works out that some other class w/ the item is that much more profitable than a wizard... sure... but the limiting factor really becomes what you can find to kill (and mana), as I think given rapid fire any pure will be about as effecient (sure the wizard spends the mana on keeping RF up... but not like they couldn't imbed it the same as another class).

[Fallen]

You would have to MA to have rapid fire available to you on a permanent basis. The spell is not normally found on scrolls, nor can it be imbedded. It can only be cast upon you by other players.

It was once able to be found on scrolls, and such scrolls do exist, but it has been some number of years since this has changed.

[Stretch]

ROFL @ the poster who voted for warriors. I'm sorry, warriors are hands down the slowest and worst profession to cash hunt. And redux doesn't really do much to stop CS attacks in OTF or the Ruined Temple.

I'd vote for a pure bard first, then wizard, then ranged rogues, then empath.

Purification is hard to beat.

Wizards can probably kill the most quickly.

My rogue can one shot kill almost anything in OTF (except constructs), and a good number of things in the Temple (sirens, executioners, radicals, magi). I average about 6-7 boxes per 15 minute hunt, can open said boxes in 5 minutes, and be ready to go again.

Warriors suck.

[Danical]

I'd vote for a pure bard first

QFT

Not that I'm biased or anything.

[Stretch]

To provide some numerical basis:

My rogue currently has 174 ranks of trading (slowly migrating to the point where I get a 25% bonus). Let's take this out of the equation since most professions have similar trading training costs (except bards, who have cheaper, and warriors, who once again suck).

I hunted for 11 minutes before I ran out of space in my containers. I killed 52 tritons/sirens. The boxes yielded 58k in wands, mid-quality gems, and coins. I found one earring worth approximately 12k. I also found one star emerald, 3 uncut diamonds, and a sunstone. After purification, those will be worth about 45k (assume half of one blew up).

So one hunt = 58k + 12k + 45k = 115k. Assuming I cared enough to hunt for forty five minutes per hour, that puts me right around 350k per hour.

[fallenSaint]

Just MA and avoid the back and forth on who is better and why.

[Sthrockmorton]

I hunted for 11 minutes before I ran out of space in my containers. I killed 52 tritons/sirens.

That's one every 12 seconds.

How fast do the creatures spawn in these areas? Were you killing every critter you ran into?

If you're killing every creature you run into, at this rate, it seems to me that the argument for what profession can kill creatures "the fastest" isn't near as important as which profession can open boxes/skin/and purify. Making bards the hands down winner for purification reasons, in this example.

Although, if you start counting the time it takes to purify a gem (i dunno what's average here, we'll just say 12 seconds for ease of use). Would you be better off killing a creature in that time? Since it seems every creature runs you on average 2k. (115k hunt / 52 creatures) Making me wonder what is the average value increase from purification?

There are so many other variables that could be included it's ridiculous. What professions are these characters? The stats? Both are big factors when it comes to encumbrance. If you're a wizard, but can't carry more than 100 lbs. You're going to be spending more time walking to-from town to sell items than you will spend hunting. If you're a Giantman Archer Rogue who can field pick, you can stay in the field a lot longer, and saving time from doing the other functions (although I doubt many, if any, "field-pick" in OTF or the Temple).

There are so many things to consider, its near impossible to say for sure, unless the person who asks the question breaks down exactly what variables they want to include/set aside.

This all reminds me of how happy I am I play gemstone for fun...

[fallenSaint]

Well...

End game zones are pretty fast spawns, haven't been to the Temple but Im sure its no worse off than OTF which can keep you on your toes at a rather steady pace.

As far as purification goes I realllllly think if thats all you want a Bard for specific wise then you're better off having a low level purification whore.

With hides in the play Clerics and now Empaths can step it up with the damageless kills and easy to obtain skills for prime values. Can net in the 1500 range per Griffin Talon with my Empath.

As far as capacity goes for getting lewt back, wizards win that shit with air lore and disks plus 509 and earth lore.

So as I said before all the crap you wanna contemplate, just make it easier on yourself and MA.

[Sthrockmorton]

So as I said before all the crap you wanna contemplate, just make it easier on yourself and MA.

^^ end of discussion

The fact that you even consider it "a grind". Means you're not hunting so much to RP as just make as much as humanly possible (for you). Which to me, says you'll be most effective paying an extra little bit per month to MA.

[AestheticDeath]

MA is really the only way to go. Anything less and your just capping your results before you reach full potential.

Beyond that, any profession can hunt well enough to power loot. It just takes the same all consuming strategy, some hard work and a lot of time.

I recommend a caster, or an archer. These days most of the ways to kill are fairly balanced depending on what you hunt. Some spells take more mana, or more casts or both.

In the end I think it all depends more on the person, their time, and the ability to play properly and grind the hell out of the game.

I don't know many power hunters, and most of the ones I know are the ones who MA. I think Vrannar is the only guy I know post cap who seriously grinds out some silvers without using pets or friends characters etc. And I am not sure to what extent he is able to do it.

[AestheticDeath]

Oh and this discussion is again, more annoying than informative. This comes up like every other month. Everyone always has the same 'opinion'. But so far I think Vinh is the only one to post some of his results from hunting with some regularity.

You really need people to PROVE what they can do with their capped character. And then you need to prove that they are the best they can be with that profession. Otherwise your still just getting mixed results, and misinformation.

So everyone pull out your capped characters, take 1000 hours worth of pure hunting logs, email them to Latrinstorm, and let him calculate some numbers for us.....

[Methais]

I feel like starting another debate between you GS4 guru's. What class do you think is best for post cap grinding for coin. Basically, which class of character can make the best coin once they are post cap, between enchanting, just killing and looting, skinning, anything and everything.

I tore the temple a nice goatse sized asshole on my wizard, especially after I bought a fixskills potion and maxed out my fire lore.

Examples:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=22624&highlight=fire+lore+appreciation

EDIT: Page 2

[Sthrockmorton]

I think Vrannar is the only guy I know post cap who seriously grinds out some silvers without using pets or friends characters etc. And I am not sure to what extent he is able to do it.

Nothing says badass like a wizard running around barehanded tearing things to pieces...

[Fallen]

Vrannar is a machine, that's for sure.

[Soulpieced]

Soulpieced doesn't need silvers, plus he can kill things just fine without rapid fire.

[Fallen]

He also doesn't hunt as much as he used to.

[Celephais]

Soulpieced doesn't need silvers, plus he can kill things just fine without rapid fire.
So you're saying you're irrelevant to the discussion?

[Latrinsorm]

So everyone pull out your capped characters, take 1000 hours worth of pure hunting logs, email them to Latrinstorm, and let him calculate some numbers for us.....:D

The only trouble with that is Wizard logs aren't necessarily timestamped in any way during the log itself, which would make it impossible to get a reliable bead on money/time unit.

On the other hand, Jamus' loot tracker utility can probably give us an average loot/creature which we could use with a time/creature measurement to get a pretty good estimate. The only trouble would again be finding a way to measure time/hunt.

I recommend emailing someone else though. :yes:

[Sypher]

Warrior is best. You go THE get one of those claid weighted mauls and go to work, get a self haste item or imbed haste and you're pretty much unstoppable. People aren't factoring in the defense part where pures would die to cmans fairly easily.

[Soulpieced]

He also doesn't hunt as much as he used to.


So you're saying you're irrelevant to the discussion?


Yet still has over 5 million more exp than the next highest bard, a CS comparable to your average capped sorcerer, a higher AS than capped warriors, and likely the highest self-cast DS in the game, and hasn't been killed while hunting in approximately 10 months. Who was arguing against bards again?

[Celephais]

Yet still has over 5 million more exp than the next highest bard, a CS comparable to your average capped sorcerer, a higher AS than capped warriors, and likely the highest self-cast DS in the game, and hasn't died in approximately 10 months. Who was arguing against bards again?
None of which pertain to this covnersation.

I don't disagree that Bards are great for cash hunting, but the fact that you've poured far too much of your life into one has zero relevance to the conversation.

[StrayRogue]

Agreed.

[Soulpieced]

None of which pertain to this covnersation.

I don't disagree that Bards are great for cash hunting, but the fact that you've poured far too much of your life into one has zero relevance to the conversation.

Original Question, "What class do you think is best for post cap grinding for coin".

CS as high as a pure using 1030 = higher killing power than a cleric/sorcerer/wizard not using rapid fire with soft RT.

Cheapest cost to 2x trading skill = more money per gem.

Loresinging to gems = a hell of a lot more than any other profession can make on gems.

Highest profession self-cast DS = less deaths than other professions, add in that you can cast in guarded essentially makes you a more powerful sorcerer that can wear chain armor.. plus a higher raw DS.

The 1004 argument ALONE is probably better than any argument someone else could make, but add in the other things, and it's pretty much a no-brainer. Ed and Vulvamancer already reiterated this, I just clarified specific points.

I've made approximately 120 million silvers hunting in the past year and a half playing what I'd call "a LOT less than I used to". So... putting something into practice also holds a little more water than theoretical bullshit threads.

Check mate.

[Celephais]

hey look, you actually joined the conversation. What you said there was relevant, what you said previous was stroking it.