4x heavily crit weighted greataxe

[Donquix]

A tempered heavy greataxe

4x and heavily crit weighted

listed at 7m currently in my auction, but i'm willing to listen to offers.

[Lomoriond]

I give you two bits, a bowl of grits, a chick with zits and a giant stuffed purple monkey I've been calling "Ted"


Seriously though... the last time I sold one of these I got 1.2m, so that's what I'll offer... if you ever feel desperate enough to run a lower MB auction type deal. To be fair, that was back in 2002, but then I never really saw why these went up in value.

[thefarmer]

Age of item.

Lack of weighting merchants.

Player merchants steadily charging more and finding buyers.

And of course.. for those not swinging a claid.. being able to say "I can WTFPWN u w/ my HCW shiznit greataxe"

[Stanley Burrell]

You also have the option of somewhat instant heavy and/or damage weighting with PP points on every single weapon.

Bought one for 1m. Sold it for 3m. And obviously spent the extra 2m on Lisu :shrug:

[TheEschaton]

You can't get weighting on weapons with premium points. Only padding.

[Stanley Burrell]

You can't get weighting on weapons with premium points. Only padding.

You're absolutely correct.

You can get weighted weapons ET'd, so maybe that's a non-ophidian value-adder. I digress.

[Lomoriond]

Age of item.

Lack of weighting merchants.

Player merchants steadily charging more and finding buyers.

And of course.. for those not swinging a claid.. being able to say "I can WTFPWN u w/ my HCW shiznit greataxe"

Eh... my confusion on why the value of the item went up was because of the actual tangible benefits of owning it... not the concept of an inflating market.

It's inferior to a 0x claidhmore in almost every way... you get a few points of DS, the ability to hit magical mobs and maybe a slightly easier time of aiming it if you've got zero ambushing skill... but from an offensive standpoint it's dramatically inferior to the claidhmore with no speed difference and less weighting (even with +30 to your swing, it has less weighting)...

Just confuses me why anyone would bother buying it for anything other than cosmetic appeal (and why that cosmetic appeal is worth so much)

La la la... I like potatoes

[Donquix]

it's actually fairly comperable to a 1x claidhmore, with the defense.

how much would a mithril defender claidhmore go for again?

[Lomoriond]

it's actually fairly comperable to a 1x claidhmore, with the defense.

how much would a mithril defender claidhmore go for again?

Um... in what way?

The extra 30 points of AS (+20 enchant, +10 AVD) does not make up for the 35 point weighting defecit.

The closest the axe even comes to even sniffing a 0x claidh is on skin, where it can generate an extra 20 raw damage with that 30 extra AS (leaving it only FIFTEEN points of weighting behind a 0x claidh)

Against plate, that expands to a +27 defecit... any way you cut it, this isn't "comparable" to a claidh at all.

FYI, Defensive bonus of 4x versus 0x is a whopping 6 DS in offensive... which explodes 2h users defense from yuck to ick. Spiffy!

[Donquix]

If it hit for 40 pts of phantom damage every time, you'd have a point. but it doesn't, so really you're just talking out your ass :)

on average, the claid is only 1 crit rank higher than the battle axe, sometimes 2 (but thats only at weird thresholds where it's like 2.1 ahead or some such)

and typically 10-12 blood damage (pre cirt of course) under

factor in crit randomization, and most of the time you're doing the same same crit, and slightly more blood damage, with an additional 6 defense.

stop e-fucking your claidhmores, they aren't that good after level 10 when you actually get endrolls over 150 reliably :-P

[Lomoriond]

If it hit for 40 pts of phantom damage every time, you'd have a point. but it doesn't, so really you're just talking out your ass :)

on average, the claid is only 1 crit rank higher than the battle axe, sometimes 2 (but thats only at weird thresholds where it's like 2.1 ahead or some such)


So you are ready to admit that a 0x claidh is better than your pissant greataxe, at a mere 1/14,000th the cost. Good



and typically 10-12 blood damage (pre cirt of course) under

factor in crit randomization, and most of the time you're doing the same same crit, and slightly more blood damage, with an additional 6 defense.


Speaking of talking out of your ass.... The MINIMUM weighting on a claidh is still four times the MAXIMUM on this axe. You're going to consistently see a higher crit ranking from the claidh in the lower end roll range

If you want to argue crit randomization in the 200+ end roll range, I may as well point out a vanilla 4x greataxe is going to have almost identical crits as a +5 weighted 4x greataxe anyways.




stop e-fucking your claidhmores, they aren't that good after level 10 when you actually get endrolls over 150 reliably :-P

By your own logic, weighting of any kind past a certain point is pretty much redundant anyways, especially with a WBS 8.... weighted or not, theres very little benefit once you can attain rank 9 through natural raw damage, so why even bother with something as paltry as a RANDOM 2 to 5 points of weighting?

Claidh owns the 100-150 end roll range... you could hunt in stance neutral and hide behind the weighting if you really felt inclined to do so... past 150, i'd take an unweighted (and very cheap) greataxe over a pissant 5 points of weighting for 7mil.

[Donquix]

So you are ready to admit that a 0x claidh is better than your pissant greataxe, at a mere 1/14,000th the cost. Good

You can say that about ANY weapon compared to a claid, thats why they aren't magic, and the magic ones are so expensive. Thank you for pointing out something everyone learns about claids in 30 seconds.


Speaking of talking out of your ass.... The MINIMUM weighting on a claidh is still four times the MAXIMUM on this axe. You're going to consistently see a higher crit ranking from the claidh in the lower end roll range

So if you keep rerolling every time you hit level 10, you're set.


If you want to argue crit randomization in the 200+ end roll range, I may as well point out a vanilla 4x greataxe is going to have almost identical crits as a +5 weighted 4x greataxe anyways.

Possibly, but it adds degrees of consistency, which is why claids are so good when you're low level and you don't see those end rolls. Changing to higher enchant weapons with better DFs that don't have AvDs in the teens as a twohander against heavier armor is what you do when you start hitting like a big boy.


By your own logic, weighting of any kind past a certain point is pretty much redundant anyways, especially with a WBS 8.... weighted or not, theres very little benefit once you can attain rank 9 through natural raw damage, so why even bother with something as paltry as a RANDOM 2 to 5 points of weighting?

Claidh owns the 100-150 end roll range... you could hunt in stance neutral and hide behind the weighting if you really felt inclined to do so... past 150, i'd take an unweighted (and very cheap) greataxe over a pissant 5 points of weighting for 7mil.

summary: omg claid wighting 4 teh rox0r. So go do that, no need to piss over a (accurately advertised) sale thread with embellished, and mostly anecdotal arguments. You don't like it, don't buy it.

[Drew]

This axe has 1/4 the weighting of a claid not 1/8th. +20 AS, + the AvD difference, + the added defense + is much better against plate.

[Donquix]

+ i already have an offer close to my asking price from the officials, contingent on how much money the buyer splurges on EG.

So yeah...sorry you sold yours for 1.2

[Lomoriond]

I'm going to forgo responding to all of your drivel by just showing mathematical proof you're a shmuck



Possibly, but it adds degrees of consistency, which is why claids are so good when you're low level and you don't see those end rolls. Changing to higher enchant weapons with better DFs that don't have AvDs in the teens as a twohander against heavier armor is what you do when you start hitting like a big boy.




Battle axe 35| 39 38 37 36| 43 41 39 37| 50 46 42 38| 50 44 38 32
Claidhmore 31| 35 34 33 32| 34 32 30 28| 38 34 30 26| 37 31 25 19
For giggles, lets compare a claidhmore to a greataxe against full plate...

Claidhmore plugs in as zero, with a DF of .225
THG plugs in as +33 over zero, with a DF of .275


180 end roll with my 0x claidh vs 213 end roll with your piece of shit

18 raw damage, +40 phantom damage - 58 damage - rank 5 crit
31 raw damage, +5 phantom damage - 36 damage - rank 3 crit

And at 280 (313 for the axe) end roll...
40 raw damage, +40 phantom damage - 80 damage- rank 7 crit
59 raw damage, +5 phantom damage - 64 damage- rank 5 crit

And at 380 (413) end roll

63 raw damage, +40 phantom damage = 103 damage - rank 9 crit
86 raw damage, +5 phantom damage = 91 damge - rank 8 crit

Mathematical proof that you're a shmuck who doesn't know what he's talking about. if you want to start arguing about "two handers with AVDs in their teens" and big boys who switch up, then know what you're talking about...

When you get to end game and you find out everything is wearing plate, you'll change your tune quick about claidhs being level 10 and under.

In summation: Way to be a shmuck, shmuck

If big boys switch to inferior weapons, I'm sure as shit glad I play a gnome.



summary: omg claid wighting 4 teh rox0r. So go do that, no need to piss over a (accurately advertised) sale thread with embellished, and mostly anecdotal arguments. You don't like it, don't buy it.

That was the only reason this turned sour... You claimed it was comparable to a 1x claidhmore and it is clearly NOT comparable to a 1x claidhmore. When called on it, you turned around and said claidhs suck... even though you were selling it as comparable to a claidhmore?

Talk yourself in circles awhile and then pretend this thing is a claidh some more... it's fun

Claiming your misadvertisments are "anecdotal" doesn't change the fact that they are LIES. Opinionated LIES.

I truly hope you find someone stupid enough to buy this for 7mil

[Lomoriond]

This axe has 1/4 the weighting of a claid not 1/8th. +20 AS, + the AvD difference, + the added defense + is much better against plate.

Claidh is +40, heavy is +5

5/40 = 1/8

See my last post why a claidh is better than an axe against plate.

[Lomoriond]

+ i already have an offer close to my asking price from the officials, contingent on how much money the buyer splurges on EG.

So yeah...sorry you sold yours for 1.2

Theres a sucker born every minute


1.2 was HIGH for the time period... that was back when people who played had a brainstem.

[TheEschaton]

I accepted I believe 8m for a greataxe just like this the other day, granted, in trade value, but still.

-TheE-

[Stabbyrogue]

Yeah, sold mine for 8 as well.

[Sthrockmorton]

Claidh is +40, heavy is +5

5/40 = 1/8


I thought heavy was 9-11?

[Warriorbird]

Heavy +10, Claidh is +40.

I thought those greataxes were somewhat, however.

[Lomoriond]

Heavy +10, Claidh is +40.

I thought those greataxes were somewhat, however.


Heavy is +5 phantom damage, claidh is +40 phantom damage

In the grander (semantic) scheme of things, heavy is +10 and claidh is +80

Damage weighting uses the normal scale (+10 for heavy damage), crit weighting uses half the normal scale (+5 for heavy crit)

[Insodus]

I'm going to forgo responding to all of your drivel by just showing mathematical proof you're a shmuck

Your entire argument relies on the fact that endrolls are 100+

For those people up-hunting or without decent AS modifiers that need the AS just to get a decent hit, or a hit at all, this is far superior to a 0x claid.

Hit > No Hit any day of the week, no math needed.

So don't call people schmucks for no reason, just because of the circumstances of YOUR particular situation.

[Warriorbird]

Heavy is +5 phantom damage, claidh is +40 phantom damage

Eh. Given variation I thought it'd be more like 5 to 20 if you're counting the midpoint as the average.

[Drew]

Heavy is +5 phantom damage, claidh is +40 phantom damage

In the grander (semantic) scheme of things, heavy is +10 and claidh is +80


No no no, I don't know why this gets accepted as fact but this isn't true. Claids do the exact same type of phantom damage as any other crit weighted weapons, there is no special "claid rule" for crit weighting being translated into phantom damage.

[Warriorbird]

Ah good. I didn't think I was that far off.

[Danical]

No one to my knowledge has ever, EVER, ever posted any evidence to support the notion that crit weighting actually varies.

Get a character with zero Dex. Go to rats. Collect only 108 outcomes. If the crit ever results in a rank 4 crit then it varies otherwise it's static. I had a small sample size before and then I forgot to log my new character.

Just saying.

[thefarmer]

0 dex why?

[Danical]

Con acts like crit padding and Dex acts like crit weighting.

While these have been stated by GMs, the actual amount has not.

There are some who believe every 4 points of Stat Bonus = 1 crit weighting/padding.

If I had a premie account to sling new characters on, I could test this, or anyone else for that matter.

[thefarmer]

Hm. I knew the con and padding, somehow the dex thing slipped by me.

Thanks for the info.

[Lomoriond]

No no no, I don't know why this gets accepted as fact but this isn't true. Claids do the exact same type of phantom damage as any other crit weighted weapons, there is no special "claid rule" for crit weighting being translated into phantom damage.

Claidh weighting is off the normal scale of weighting (thus why you can't assess a claidhmore's weighting)

You're exactly right in that they plug into the formula exactly the same as any other crit weighted weapon, but they add 40 phantom damage.


Damage weighting was moved over to a random system... it was assumed crit weighting was as well... Unfortunately my two hander has 35 dex, so I'm not really in a good position to be testing randomization of crit weighting

[Lomoriond]

Your entire argument relies on the fact that endrolls are 100+

For those people up-hunting or without decent AS modifiers that need the AS just to get a decent hit, or a hit at all, this is far superior to a 0x claid.

Hit > No Hit any day of the week, no math needed.

So don't call people schmucks for no reason, just because of the circumstances of YOUR particular situation.


Dumbass.

If you can't consistently get past 100 end roll, you need to reconsidering your role as a two hander, or learn how to take something down. If you're going to hunt like a complete doofus and just try to open melee everything for the rest of the game, you need to seriously reroll into a pure caster or something.

On top of that, if you WERE hunting with a 50-150 end roll range, you'd want a claidh anyways, cause that weighting is your only prayer of actually killing it.

Even if it were in bare skin, i'd take 50-150 with a claidh over 74-174 with an axe, because anything 108 end roll+ (42% of all rolls) would be instantly rank 9 where as the axe is going to need a 140 end roll (34% of all rolls) to do the same thing.

Go to plate and it just gets pathetic.

In summation: Go fuck yourself, shmuck.

I know SOMEONE is going to say something about "but I don't need a rank 9" which will cause me to just call you a moron who ought to go run the numbers on plate to get fully what I'm talking about.

[Drew]

Claidh weighting is off the normal scale of weighting (thus why you can't assess a claidhmore's weighting)

You're exactly right in that they plug into the formula exactly the same as any other crit weighted weapon, but they add 40 phantom damage.


Damage weighting was moved over to a random system... it was assumed crit weighting was as well... Unfortunately my two hander has 35 dex, so I'm not really in a good position to be testing randomization of crit weighting



I know the theory, but I'm just saying it's not correct. A couple of posters got some data wrong and it hasn't died down since then. Claids have 40 points of weighting which is 4 times as much as HCW.

[Danical]

I know the theory, but I'm just saying it's not correct. A couple of posters got some data wrong and it hasn't died down since then. Claids have 40 points of weighting which is 4 times as much as HCW.

I'm inclined to agree. I never understood where the whole claid = 80 came from.

There are a few on the officials that really push it though, without any evidence to support the claim.

:shrug:

[Drew]

I'm inclined to agree. I never understood where the whole claid = 80 came from.

There are a few on the officials that really push it though, without any evidence to support the claim.

:shrug:

Menos.

[Danical]

I didn't want to give names, but yeah. He's fanatical about it without ever doing research on it.

[Drew]

No he did the research, I just think he got it wrong in this case. Menos is good people.

[Stanley Burrell]

I know the theory, but I'm just saying it's not correct. A couple of posters got some data wrong and it hasn't died down since then. Claids have 40 points of weighting which is 4 times as much as HCW.

Heavy is ~20 I thought?

Also, isn't claid weighting static?

Edited to add:

I always figured that since heavy was roughly the mean of the named weighting scale, that it somehow achieves half the phantom bonus that incredible would have.

If I'm reading Krakiipedia correctly, does a standard claid have exactly 15 more points of critical weighting, then, whereas a weapon would inspect as "incredible" starting at 25?

[Lomoriond]

Heavy is ~20 I thought?

Also, isn't claid weighting static?

.qrs weighting
Lightly 1-2
Fairly 3-4
Somewhat 5-6
Decent 7-8
Heavy 9-11
Very Heavy 12-14
Exceptional 15-19
Masterful 20-24
Incredible 25+

Basic summary of what the numbers mean:
Damage weighting: Adds that amount of damage to the hit. No additional crits.
Crit weighting: Adds half that amount of damage for purposes of critical hit determination. Armor2 has more information on how that works. Note that no additional damage is actually added, but the wounds are treated as if it was.
Padding subtracts instead of adding.

[Stanley Burrell]

So a weapon that has just reached incredible weighting (+25) is just a bit over half (62.5%) of what a claid's full weighting is?

[Drew]

So a weapon that has just reached incredible weighting (+25) is just a bit over half (62.5%) of what a claid's full weighting is?

jes.

[Cademus]

To conclude this arguement. Claid weighting DOES vary, I believe the weighting varies by 1-40 but some believe it's max weighting/2 to max weighting or for claids 20-40. If it's the former then the average weighting for a claidh would be 20 if the latter then 30 phantom damage would be added to every attack.

Claids are nice because you can sit in a lower stance and still deal similar punishment if using a non-claid and in stance O.

The general rule of thumb is a +40 weapon equals the claid weighting if it averages at 30 phantom ranks, this depends on the DF you're factoring in. But note that +40 is consistent and the 30 phantom ranks will still vary wildy.

With that being said a +40 perfect greatsword is worth far far more in terms of mechanics even over that of +10 Claidh. A 10x Claidh is slighlty inferior to that of a 10x Awl-pike in terms of going for crit kills. You can all do the numbers yourself since I'm too tired to them now.

[Drew]

A 10x claid or awl pike are both stupid if you are going for crit kills. Crush only ftw.

[thefarmer]

You remove a perfect maoral-shafted steel awl-pike from in your canvas workboots.
>cman precis crush
Awl-pike set to deliver crushing damage.

[Drew]

You remove a perfect maoral-shafted steel awl-pike from in your canvas workboots.
>cman precis crush
Awl-pike set to deliver crushing damage.


Cool, now aim that.

[Danical]

To conclude this arguement. Claid weighting DOES vary. . .

Prove it. I'd really love to see this considering what little data I've got.


Cool, now aim that.

lololololololololololoololoklklloololooleh.